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Deliberately, I am starting a new thread about the Lionel AF 2014 catalog because the first one took a turn to the morose. From the Gilbert/Hi-rail perspective, some catalogs from various years are more significant than others, but there is usually something of interest for the enthusiast. And, with hi-rail there is always something from AM or (now) MTH for purchase or that piece of gotta have vintage Gilbert to chase.

 

Questions arise out of most Lionel catalogs, the answers to which can influence one’s preordering and buying decisions. Here are some pieces of info that I learned via helpful responses to questions placed to ‘the powers that be’ at the Circle L Ranch.  The following is framed with the view of a Gilbert/Hi-rail approach to S gauge.

  1. There has been a recent decision to fit future issues of the new scale cylindrical hoppers and mechanical refrigerator cars with hi rail wheel sets instead of the scale flange sets. Consequently, the copy in the new catalog is out of date and no longer correct. Replacement hi-rail trucks are listed and pictured in the catalog and, once available, will enable owners of the current crop of cylindrical hoppers to quickly hi-rail them.
  2. I posed a question about the new 57’ refrigerator cars’ ability to clear the light housing on a turned Gilbert turnout.  The folks at Lionel feel pretty confident that they will be able to navigate the Gilbert turnout, but that they really can’t get any longer than the 57 footers.  A promise of keeping a close eye on this point was made in response.
  3. The waffle boxcar is to be made using new tooling specific to L- AF.
  4. The illustration for the 2015 C&O passenger set now shows traditional-sized O gauge passenger cars. It was clarified that the cars for this set will be the S Gauge heavyweights as one would expect.  The need was stated to update the newest image in the catalog (on line) to show the proper passenger cars.
  5. The new water tank accessory with a weathered 'look' is appealing. I asked if this could be the start of a new line of track side structures that 'break' with the old Gilbert postwar style. The new telephone poles kind of fit in with a new style, too. The response was that they would like to do more of these more realistic accessories for S gauge, if demand/sales support this.

The folks at Lionel appear to be still considering how to approach the question of passenger cars for the two new PA pairs, so I cannot report anything definitive in this regard. A constructively worded request placed with the powers that be might prove to be productive.

 

Hopefully, the clarifications above (subject to the usual qualifications) will prove helpful for some of the folks here. They were helpful to me.

 

Bob

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Hi Bob,
Thank you for going to the source and following up on some of the concerns raised.  One thing you didn't talk about is the height issue for the cylindrical hoppers.  Was there any mention of whether Lionel would address that?  I think this could be relevant to anyone who runs these cars, be it AF, High Rail, or Scale.
Thanks, Mike

Originally Posted by Mikeaa:
Hi Bob,
Thank you for going to the source and following up on some of the concerns raised.  One thing you didn't talk about is the height issue for the cylindrical hoppers.  Was there any mention of whether Lionel would address that?  I think it's relevant to anyone who runs these cars, be it AF, High Rail, or Scale.
Thanks, Mike

 

I did not ask that question. I started at 'Square 1' about the trucks. Sorry.

 

Bob

 

Comments imbedded:

  1. "There has been a recent decision to fit future issues of the new scale cylindrical hoppers and mechanical refrigerator cars with hi rail wheel sets instead of the scale flange sets. Consequently, the copy in the new catalog is out of date and no longer correct. Replacement hi-rail trucks are listed and pictured in the catalog and, once available, will enable owners of the current crop of cylindrical hoppers to quickly hi-rail them."

That makes sense.  Half of the controversy would have been avoided if Flyer wheels were originally on the hoppers.  It was kind of a mystery mounting scale wheels in the first place.  Perhaps an example of "no good deed goes unpunished."

 

 

"I posed a question about the new 57’ refrigerator cars’ ability to clear the light housing on a turned Gilbert turnout.  The folks at Lionel feel pretty confident that they will be able to navigate the Gilbert turnout, but that they really can’t get any longer than the 57 footers.  A promise of keeping a close eye on this point was made in response."

 

There shouldn't be any problem with the 57' reefer on traditional Flyer turnouts.  Anything with the same truck spacing or less of the streamline passenger cars should clear the lamp housing.  Hopefully though, the Flyer end of the hobby will evolve to accepting longer cars.

 

 

"The waffle boxcar is to be made using new tooling specific to L- AF."

 

That will be interesting to see the final product...

 

 

"The illustration for the 2015 C&O passenger set now shows traditional-sized O gauge passenger cars. It was clarified that the cars for this set will be the S Gauge heavyweights as one would expect.  The need was stated to update the newest image in the catalog (on line) to show the proper passenger cars."

 

I was wondering why they changed the illustration in the first place.  And they wonder why the customers get confused.  Perhaps they plan on offering a similar set in O gauge.

 

 

"The new water tank accessory with a weathered 'look' is appealing. I asked if this could be the start of a new line of track side structures that 'break' with the old Gilbert postwar style. The new telephone poles kind of fit in with a new style, too. The response was that they would like to do more of these more realistic accessories for S gauge, if demand/sales support this."

 

That would be good.

 

As to passenger cars for the PA's, I personally feel Lionel should go back to "standard" 4 car sets (combine, coach, dome, observation) with individual add-ons (baggage, full dome, diner, extra coach.)  It seems the Flyer folks get shortchanged somehow with 3 car sets.

 

Rusty

 

 

 

Last edited by Rusty Traque

A little disturbing tidbit in the description of the Polar Express set is that the tender shell is of durable plastic (no big deal other than the fragile step arrangement on the 21130's) and the tender trucks are also made of durable plastic. (shades of the dreaded pikemaster?) I can understand trying to keep the price point low but hopefully this will change in final production.

 

Rich

Rusty said:

 

 

As to passenger cars for the PA's, I personally feel Lionel should go back to "standard" 4 car sets (combine, coach, dome, observation) with individual add-ons (baggage, full dome, diner, extra coach.)  It seems the Flyer folks get shortchanged somehow with 3 car sets.

 
 
I agree as well, over time we have seen Lionel slowly change the Flyer line to mirror the O gauge line in many ways, like 3 pass cars for the PA's now and more than its fair share of fantasy cars along with poor quality/thought on products. It seems they have the Borg approach and wish to assimilate Flyer people to be clones of the three rail fraternity. 
 
Perhaps Lionels Borg view of perfection is misguided and they should actually look at what has been successful with others and share best practice.
Originally Posted by Mikeaa:

Hi Bob,

 

I went ahead and sent them the question about the cars riding too high on the trucks for the cylindrical hoppers and the 57 foot reefers since it appears they both use the new truck.

 

We'll see what kind of response I get!

 

Mike

 

Good.

 

I am speculating with you all, but a possible explanation for the ride height choice is that the L-AF Gilbert-style rolling stock rides high ... higher than original Gilbert due to the newer standard open frame truck. They may be just matching ride heights between "old" and "new". Not a big deal when running traditional rolling stock, but more important when putting a scale-like train together.

 

Bob

 

Originally Posted by richabr:

A little disturbing tidbit in the description of the Polar Express set is that the tender shell is of durable plastic (no big deal other than the fragile step arrangement on the 21130's) and the tender trucks are also made of durable plastic. (shades of the dreaded pikemaster?) I can understand trying to keep the price point low but hopefully this will change in final production.

 

Rich

 

Today's plastics (ABS) are a lot more durable than those from the 1950's, so concerns about fragility may be put aside. Again, speculating with you ... I suspect that there will two levels of Berks: the entry level set version with less detail, 4 wheel tender trucks, etc. and (possibly) a future upgraded version to follow with 6 wheel tender trucks, more add-on detail, Legacy features, etc. We'll see.

 

Bob

Thank you for starting a new thread!  I was not thrilled about the tone of the other thread either.

 

If the new waffle sided cars have new tooling that is as good as the tooling for the "non-Gilbert style"caboose, it will be adequate but not scale detailed.  I wonder how much demand there is for cars and locomotives outside of the "Transition era".  I don't know of many modelers of the "Modern"era in Scale or Hi Rail, but, of course, there hasn't been a lot of product either. 

 

I am in something of a quandry as to what to do about the Berkshire.  As an Eastern Modeler, I really want a Boston and Albany Berkshire.  I am debating whether to buy one of the first release and reletter the tender or wait to see if the promised "more detailed" locos are ever produced in that livery.

 

If past experience is any guide, it will probably be best to buy a 1st aproximation of what I really want and "make do" rather than wait. (The "bird in the hand" approach). 

 

Little Tommy

Originally Posted by richabr:

Since there hasn't been a coach produced for many years, could the mold possibly be in an unusable state?

 

Rich

 

Maybe to clarify my point #4 at the beginning of this thread, the answer to my question indicates that the heavyweights for the PE and C&O sets are to made by using the tooling from 2006-7 that was used for the L-AF NYC, PRR, UP, Blue Comet, Freedom Train, and Chicago and Alton sets.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Bob

Last edited by Bob Bubeck
Originally Posted by richabr:

A little disturbing tidbit in the description of the Polar Express set is that the tender shell is of durable plastic (no big deal other than the fragile step arrangement on the 21130's) and the tender trucks are also made of durable plastic. (shades of the dreaded pikemaster?) I can understand trying to keep the price point low but hopefully this will change in final production.

 

Rich

 

More importantly - will Lionel make the correct NKP/C&O/PM style tender with Buckeye trucks?  Lionel shaved costs with the 0-27 sized Polar Express Berk by using a NYC style tender on 4 wheel trucks - definitely noticeable to a NKP fan like me.  

 

Since Lionel is producing new tooling for the S gauge version, can someone find out if Lionel will make the correct tender?  Another bonus for producing the NKP style tender - it would be perfect behind that Mikado Lionel makes - a dead ringer for NKP 587 that's being restored at the Indiana Transportation Museum in Noblesville, Indiana...  

Originally Posted by MTN:
Originally Posted by richabr:

 

More importantly - will Lionel make the correct NKP/C&O/PM style tender with Buckeye trucks?  Lionel shaved costs with the 0-27 sized Polar Express Berk by using a NYC style tender on 4 wheel trucks - definitely noticeable to a NKP fan like me.  

 

Since Lionel is producing new tooling for the S gauge version, can someone find out if Lionel will make the correct tender?  Another bonus for producing the NKP style tender - it would be perfect behind that Mikado Lionel makes - a dead ringer for NKP 587 that's being restored at the Indiana Transportation Museum in Noblesville, Indiana...  

The story so far is the tooling will be upgradable to make a proper S scale (ala, the Y3) NKP Berk along with the simplified Polar Express version.

 

The only way we'll truly know is when a pilot model shows up.

 

Rusty

Last edited by Rusty Traque
Originally Posted by Bob Bubeck:
 

 

Another pretty important clarification concerns the new D&H and SP Legacy PA's. The non-powered units are to be Legacy capable, too, with smoke, electrocoupler, and directional lighting.

Well that does explain the price discrepancy between the new units and the Texas Special AA's.

I own the Texas Special AA set and while excited to finally have remote couplers was disappointed to find both of them on the lead powered A unit. When running in a forward/backward consist of the A units it was useless to fire the rear coupler as that caused you to lose the rear engine along with the entire train.

I know I could run the powered A unit as the rear unit to put a remote coupler at the rear but that's too much trouble for me. (Trouble = lazy).

Having the second unit Legacy equipped just about accounts for the ~$150.00 premium as that's about what it adds to an "O" gauge dummy engine.

Progress = "Show me the money"! And ,as always, I'll pay it!

Mark

In discussions with Lionel at York, did anyone get answers to the following questions that have been asked in this forum but still remain unanswered:

  1. Will the newly introduced ES44AC locomotives that are not Norfolk Southern have prototypical headlights in the nose, or will they remain above the windows? Lionel did a nice job varying some headlights on the U33Cs, but they did not point that out. Headlight placement on the ES44AC (and SD70ACe also, for that matter) is far more noticeable.
  2. Will new cylindrical hoppers with high-rail wheels have the bolsters lowered to look more prototypical?
  3. Has Lionel modified the trucks on the SD70ACe locomotives that were part of the first run (BNSF, KCS, and UP Heritage) and now appear again in the 2014 catalogue? The second run of SD70ACe and the ES44AC locomotives no longer stall when crossing Gilbert and American Models switches. 
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