LionChief Plus 2.0 Baby K4s.  NOT in that outlandish red scheme!

Jon

I haven't gotten mine yet, will eyeball tomorrow when it goes live. I will say Mohawks will be a very likely on my list. See what else catches my eye Marty.

Here's my takeaway. As I paged through the catalog I was surprised at how little was Legacy and O scale. 60 pages of interest than 175 pages of product I'm really not interested in.

When I look at a camelback priced at $650 and think, oh that's affordable, what's that say about pricing.

Some great stuff for me to buy second hand in a few years, especially the red Pacemaker.

Was able to glean a little from what I've seen posted here but really need to see it as a complete catalog (the hard copy always helps, too).

Doesn't appear there's much for me. Usually focus on anything PW-inspired, conventional, etc., but I'm interested in the Lion Chief + 2.0 offerings as well so we'll see.

a starter set with LVC and the recording feature

possibly the NASA set or john deere set

The Asa Packer set is calling me....of course my wallet is calling me names for even thinking about it!

@KOOLjock1 posted:

LionChief Plus 2.0 Baby K4s.  NOT in that outlandish red scheme!

Jon

Jon,

What is a "baby" k4? Smaller than Railking?

Haven't been able to thumb through the whole catalog yet but there are a couple of things that I will be preordering so far:

LIRR Camelback

Strasburg SW8

The Presidential Boxcars

- I would consider the Pacemaker boxcar set but until I know what types of couplers and trucks are used on the non-VL boxcars, I am out on those. I just got in the new Lionel Milk Cars and we all know how those are.

The Pacemaker mohawk with match freight set.

I was gonna add the B&O SD70, but i opted to get the MTH Big Boy. So i hope to get the B&O SD70 down the road.

Isn't today supposed to be the online day for the catalog?  I don't see it yet.

@jhz563 posted:

Isn't today supposed to be the online day for the catalog?  I don't see it yet.

Tomorrow (Friday) morning.  The Ryan and Dave show follows that afternoon.

@BradFish1 posted:

Jon,

What is a "baby" k4? Smaller than Railking?

Actually, Lionel got sued over their "Baby K4s" tooling as being WAY too close to the RailKing tooling.  So, about the same size... yes!

Jon

As of now, I am leaning towards a couple things. Of course it's not set in stone. Anyway here are the ponderings from this catalog.

1) The Pacemaker boxcar set. Not to concerned about the trucks and couplers because I will convert everything over to Kadee's.

2) The Santa Fe Flyer passenger set and add-on 2-pack is a possibility.

3) From the American Flyer side either the NYC or Santa Fe Pacific's.

I would like to get a L2a Mohawk from this catalog but the previous 5 L2a's Lionel has done can be found on the second hand market. So the L2a's in this catalog are a pass for me.

The New Hope and Ivyland set looked interesting to me...

D&H 21" passenger cars IF the blue color is correct, and a more than reasonable match with the blue on my previously released D&H  PA's

Personally, I think it is a great catalog! For preordering, I would have to go big with either the "Black Bonet" 3000 or the prototypical 3001 offerings. When I first saw the original 3000 I missed out on getting one, and with them being hard to find, I am defiantly not passing up this opportunity. There is much more I would like to preorder but $2500 for this locomotive fills the budget.

@Trainmaster04 posted:

Personally, I think it is a great catalog! For preordering I would have to go big with either the "Black Bonet" 3000 or the prototypical 3001 offerings. When I first saw the original 3000 I missed out on getting one, and with them being hard to find, I am defiantly not passing up this opportunity. There is much more I would like to preorder but $2500 for locomotive fills the budget.

I personally think it's one of the better catalogs in a few years.  Lots of stuff and lots of sets.  Quite a few items we haven't seen in a while. 

Not a darn thing,  I'm done with the poor quality, bad designs, cheapening of the product, and the high prices Lionel charges.

@superwarp1 posted:

Not a darn thing,  I'm done with the poor quality, bad designs, cheapening of the product, and the high prices Lionel charges.

Don't hold back Gary, how do you really feel?  I understand where you're coming from.

I'm not getting anything. Nothing caught my eye for the time period I model (1947-1951 ATSF and SP). SP 4-6-2 was a maybe but I decided against it because SP didn't have a USRA Pacific and I'm not sure what motor configuration (motor in smokebox or motor in firebox) it will have. I thought about the SP Vison Line boxcar but I'd rather just have a plain sound car, which is cheaper. ATSF 2-10-10-2 is way before when I model and so is the ATSF "Valley Flyer" set.

So nothing for me this time around. I have ordered rolling stock from the previous catalogs. This will be the first catalog in 3 years I haven't ordered from.

LionChief Plus 2.0 Baby K4

@Jeff T posted:

Some great stuff for me to buy second hand in a few years, especially the red Pacemaker.

Maybe it will change, but I have found (and I'm not the only one) that a lot of stuff has gotten very hard to find on the secondary market. With many of these BTO pieces, there are not a whole lot of them made in the first place. As others have noted over the recent past, these days, if you want something, don't wait too long after it comes out to get it, or you may be waiting a long time to find one.

@breezinup posted:

Maybe it will change, but I have found (and I'm not the only one) that a lot of stuff has gotten very hard to find on the secondary market. With many of these BTO pieces, there are not a whole lot of them made in the first place. As others have noted over the recent past, these days, if you want something, don't wait too long after it comes out to get it, or you may be waiting a long time to find one.

So true!! I just hate sticking my wallet out for items with issues... Secondary market is scarce and priced high.

The three N&W MOW cars are tempting. However, the new pricing structure puts me on the sidelines. I have three nice ones from Weaver. They will have to be "good enough".

I am numb at the number of Acelas. Perhaps the WORST offering in Lionel history so, lets make them in a bunch of fantasy liveries. 

The Soo GP30 caught my eye. There have been very few Soo scale engines made by Lionel. The engine is only a possiblity, though. After looking for many years for some Atlas O Soo GP35s, a bit over a year ago I finally  found a set, so the Lionel GP30 is arriving too late, essentially.

The Great Northern Pacific is there, but already having the Mikado, it's not a necessity, although the Vanderbilt-style tender is interesting. But there's no way I'd make a commitment until after seeing the actual production model. While the catalog picture looks correct, given Lionel recent multiple disasters with the GN green color, who knows what the actual model will end up looking like? Could end up being another pea soup green mess.

Disappointed to see Lionel is only offering one new item in the LC+2 line (the K-4). Really thought they'd charge ahead more with these. Was really hoping for a N&W J and/or SP GS-4 Daylight, or a LionMaster-type Hudson. They'd sell the daylights out of all of those (sorry for the pun) if they'd make them.

It's a dream come true.

Three PA sets in midwest road names!  MKT, Cotton Belt, and GM&O!!!

Oh wait.  This is a Lionel catalog?  Never mind.  Nothing.

Not planning to buy anything right away, but hoping to pick things up over the course of the spring instead. One of the NYC L2a Mohawks will be high on my list. First compare it to one of the previously-run L2a's, then either buy one of the second-hand engines or a new one. I'm not opposed to buying used but it carries its own risks (of which I have fallen victim to a few times). Pacemaker boxcar set looks nice too. An SW8 and LC+2.0 RS3 are also on the wishlist.  The NASA set looks fun and the Pacific engines look great, but those aren't at the top of my list.

@breezinup posted:

Disappointed to see Lionel is only offering one new item in the LC+2 line (the K-4). Really thought they'd charge ahead more with these. Was really hoping for a N&W J and/or SP GS-4 Daylight, or a LionMaster-type Hudson. They'd sell the daylights out of all of those (sorry for the pun) if they'd make them.

Agreed.  Would have loved to see the LionMaster Allegheny in last year's catalog make it to production too. But no shortage of LionChief sets and engines - makes me wonder how well the 2.0 engines are selling as opposed to regular LionChief. Edit: I forget that LC+ 2.0 is a fairly new offering, it may still be trying to establish its ideal market. I wouldn't know, I'm not a business man

@Gilly@N&W posted:

The three N&W MOW cars are tempting. However, the new pricing structure puts me on the sidelines. I have three nice ones from Weaver. They will have to be "good enough".

I am numb at the number of Acelas. Perhaps the WORST offering in Lionel history so, lets make them in a bunch of fantasy liveries.

You probably need to take a few minutes and review the issues with the "first" Acela.  You won't see those problem points again.

Probably that big 2-10-10-2. It'll be the biggest model railroading purchase I ever made and all the shade throwing towards Lionel sure makes me hope it's worth it haha

We'll see other than that. My layout's industries make my rolling stock choices pretty limited. Especially because I care more about period correct rolling stock than period correct locos.

The 1361 baby K4, ill save 3750 for another time. With all the license tie ins I wish they would make a Captain America Buy War Bonds boxcar, I would get two of those.

The GP30 diesel and the GP35 are a different locomotive design.

If you truly model the SOO LINE you have to get the series of the GP30, GP35, GP40 diesel-electric locomotives.

The SOO LINE got 22 of the GP30s in 1963

The SOO LINE got 4 GP35s in 1964.

The SOO LINE got 6 GP35s in 1965.

The SOO LINE got 4 GP40s in 1967.

The much larger number of GP30s present on the SOO means that you have to get the pair from LIONEL for a proper ratio of motive power.

Andrew

@falconservice posted:

The GP30 diesel and the GP35 are a different locomotive design.

If you truly model the SOO LINE you have to get the series of the GP30, GP35, GP40 diesel-electric locomotives.

The SOO LINE got 22 of the GP30s in 1963

The SOO LINE got 4 GP35s in 1964.

The SOO LINE got 6 GP35s in 1965.

The SOO LINE got 4 GP40s in 1967.

The much larger number of GP30s present on the SOO means that you have to get the pair from LIONEL for a proper ratio of motive power.

Andrew

It's hard to argue with that logic

SD70ace B&O,  also I may obtain one of them Pacemakers.                                                                                                 after seeing the prices                                       

Well I'm 77 so my buying days are pretty much over but it's sure nice to look.  Kind of like sitting on the front porch in my rocking chair watching all the pretty girls go by.

I looked at the catalog, and especially re steam engines, the pricing seems high.  Probably taking advantage of MTH closing.  Order volumes will decrease, IMO.

Looks like the catalog is also hitting the Lionel webpage via the search function right on the home page.

@breezinup posted:

Disappointed to see Lionel is only offering one new item in the LC+2 line (the K-4). Really thought they'd charge ahead more with these. Was really hoping for a N&W J and/or SP GS-4 Daylight, or a LionMaster-type Hudson. They'd sell the daylights out of all of those (sorry for the pun) if they'd make them.

The Baby K4 tooling needed less modification than a J/GS-4.  Just a retro-fit of a fan-driven smoke unit, and electronics swap-out.  The J tooling has never had a can-motor set-up.

Jon

• Sorry to say, with Lionels track record of wrong colors, pricing that is absurd, packaging that is horrible, Bto items, items showing up with detail just laying in the box.
• My days of ordering anything new is over.
• Secondary market is looking very good.
• And if I miss anything on the secondary market, who cares!! They are trains not a necessity.

Dave

@MartyE posted:

Don't hold back Gary, how do you really feel?  I understand where you're coming from.

I'm really really sad we are in this position.  I blame upper management and the owners of Lionel for this.

@ed h posted:

Looks like the catalog is also hitting the Lionel webpage via the search function right on the home page.

What do you search to find the catalogue?

It's annoying that they don't just have it up on their website yet.

@BC1989 posted:

What do you search to find the catalogue?

It's annoying that they don't just have it up on their website yet.

The search finds the contents not the catalog.  I'll post a link in the first post when it goes "Live".  They had to pick a time for it to go up I guess until then we wait.

And it's up!

Lionel 2021 Big Book!

American Flyer

Some really expensive "fiction" in that catalog.

The Lionel "wheelhouse" is mid-range products.  LionChief Plus 2.0 and such.  As such, I feel confident pre-ordering the Baby K4s.  I just have to pick a road number.

I still can't buy an ALCo RS-3 with EMD trucks though...

Jon

Since last year was my 1st full year back in the Hobby I'm not familiar with how Lionel works their product roll outs from year to year.  My 1st impression is there's a lot of repeats from last year (Santa Fe Super Chief, US Steam, Union Flyer Pacific, Blue Comet etc....).  Also, I was VERY EXCITED when I heard they were doing a NASA themed set but after looking at it I'm honestly a little disappointed especially with how many great NASA Engines and cars MTH produced over the years.  

One big miss for me (as I have a young son who loves all things Thomas) is they didn't bring back the moving eyes on the Thomas and related engines.  My boy and all his friends who have seen the one with the moving eyes are instantly fascinated and in love with how the eyes move back and forth as the engine rolls forward.  I guess it was too costly for Lionel to reproduce and the old set w the moving eyes will just continue to rise in value over time.

Lastly I was VERY surprised to see how expensive some of these engines and sets have become...YIKES...I guess the idea is to lure people in/back via Lionchief and once they are hooked, get em to spend $2,500 and upwards on a high end engine/set.

Ok. While I’m not one to complain about prices, I find it odd that the PA set is 999.99 and the 4 car passenger set is 749.99. I would like see more of a price gap between 2 powered engines and 4 passenger cars.

But other than that. I like the catalog.

You can complain about pricing but who's actually paying MSRP and if they are, why?  I'm not saying prices didn't go up but we get the same complaint on just about every catalog and everyone quotes the MSRP.  Find your favorite Forum Sponsor and I bet they have some better pre-order prices or even below MSRP pricing.

@MartyE posted:

You can complain about pricing but who's actually paying MSRP and if your are, why?  I'm not saying prices didn't go up but we get the same complaint on just about every catalog and everyone quotes the MSRP.  Find your favorite Forum Sponsor and I bet they have some better pre-order prices or even below MSRP pricing.

In most cases, I totally agree with that.  But I thought joker34's take was legit.

@MikeH posted:

In most cases, I totally agree with that.  But I thought joker34's take was legit.

Oh I agree with that.  My comment was general overall pricing. 

@MartyE posted:

You can complain about pricing but who's actually paying MSRP and if they are, why?  I'm not saying prices didn't go up but we get the same complaint on just about every catalog and everyone quotes the MSRP.  Find your favorite Forum Sponsor and I bet they have some better pre-order prices or even below MSRP pricing.

I understand what you are saying about not paying MSRP. Same theory applies with the preorder prices. I just didnt bother to quote the preorder prices. Im a Lionel guy, but im really only complaining about the passenger car prices. For the price Lionel wants for them there should be 5 cars not 4. 

The Camden and Amboy John Bull set piques my interest.

Very little to interest me.  I am happy to see the house kits:  I hope to see such offerings boost the creative aspect of this hobby.

I see nothing else I plan to seriously consider.  Part of it is pricing.  $200 boxcars?  I don't care if they squeak and squeal--I don't want them squeaking and squealing.  It's rapacious.  Worse yet is $65 for a modern era 6464 that says "Merry Christmas" and has NO other features.

I might have looked harder at the Christmas Lights Set if it weren't infested with LEDs.  Give me real lights.

I think they are missing a trick by not selling the Halloween sets with orange Fast Track.  The combination seems natural to me for some reason . . . .

"I P Drips Plumbing"?  Really?  That's pretty crass.  I realize that kind of base humor is all the rage these days, but I would have like to see Lionel remain above it.

All in all, except for a possible house kit or two, I will spend my money on Deluxe Marx and classic era (the real stuff, no the imitations) Standard Gauge this year.  I get much more for the money spent--and it's substantially less money!

Nothing for me.  I am curious if they are done with the Friendship Train offerings.

Nice to see that they're offering some 18" passenger cars.  Question: Has Lionel ever produced 18" streamlined cars in ABS/plastic?  I realize they've made aluminum.

I really like the High Speed Train sets and  the Nickel Plate Road Work Train set. Also looking for some new command accessories. However, I just invested a ton of $ in a couple of the 2021 MTH big boys, so that has really impacted my funding.

Thanks, TrainFinder Craig

I like the Soo GP30 diesel locomotive and the Detroit Mackinac boxcars.  I think they got the GP30 length wrong - I don't think it is 19".  Maybe I am wrong. I also like the New Haven "Acela" but too big for my curves.

Vision Boxcar Maryland & Pennsylvania #5624

They are gonna get me with the Chevy stuff, maybe not the service station but for sure the boxcar. The water tower is cool but not sure i would ever use it.

@Greg - Mi posted:

I like the Soo GP30 diesel locomotive and the Detroit Mackinac boxcars.  I think they got the GP30 length wrong - I don't think it is 19".  Maybe I am wrong. I also like the New Haven "Acela" but too big for my curves.

Also, wondering about the length on the PA AA sets ....... is each unit really 19" long for a 38" long MU ??

When is the last day for pre-orders?

What am I getting?

I'm getting sadder and sadder that there will be no more MTH catalogs.

@Lehigh74 posted:

What am I getting?

I'm getting sadder and sadder that there will be no more MTH catalogs.

Ditto.

@mike.caruso posted:

Ditto.

Me too. It's sad about MTH

Disappointed with the lack of LC+2.0 offerings.

Don't know. Something probably .  Vast amount of stuff for all sorts of interests.  I've got too much already, so will probably be one or two things, just to have some fun. Maybe I'll get some more Area 51 stuff.  Doesn't get more "toy train" than that.

"I'm getting sadder and sadder that there will be no more MTH catalogs."

Well, I'm sad that I'm getting closer and closer to the inevitable end of life, but I don't let it affect my ability to enjoy a new toy train catalog.  Everything passes. 

MTH made mostly equipment that appeals to the scale oriented three railer.  Seems to me there's plenty of that in this catalog (not my cup of tea, however).  I know not everyone can afford this stuff, so that's frustrating I'm sure, but there it is.  No need to rain on other people's parade because you prefer MTH, on the other hand.

Really disappointed in the Legacy offerings.  Another behemoth (2-10-10-2) that few can afford or even run on a small or even a mid-sized layout.  Almost no mid to small freight steam engines, like perhaps a 2-8-0 or 2-6-0?   And what happened to the Legacy Mikado's?  (I was hoping for a UP Mikado with some other number than 2537.)  Also missing in Legacy are the F-3's, F-7's, FA's.  Sad. 

Just saw this on the NP O-Gaugers Facebook page - hilarious:

This is NOT meant to be a political post.  There are a slew of Bernie memes going viral and this just adds to the collection.

As to what I'm getting - not much this year.  I'll be getting the Angela Trotta Thomas Christmas shop but that's about it.  Would like to see a PRR Camelback in the next catalogue.

-Greg

Page 202, they can't seem to decide if the smallest FasTrack diameter is O31 or O34 (echoes of Marx).   Page 72, the Blomberg trucks on the Alco RS-3's are unfortunate, I think.  Not visually appealing to me.

@Greg Houser posted:

Just saw this on the NP O-Gaugers Facebook page - hilarious:

This is NOT meant to be a political post.  There are a slew of Bernie memes going viral and this just adds to the collection.

-Greg

May as well have a meme of Kim K with a caboose on her caboose

I was hoping there would be something of interest for me since this will be the first Lionel catalog out, without the pending MTH catalog...sadly there was not.  The Acela is something I always wanted, but I do not have that kind of money in my train fund, plus to be honest I'd like to know if it works better than the original set before I ordered it.  Really going to miss MTH.  Hopefully 2021 Vol II will have something for me...or maybe this is the universe telling me I have enough trains

I did like the new catalog and I found a few things I would like to have.....but I'm not likely to part with $2.5k for my dream steamer.  I do like the John Bull's but the price for conventional keeps me at bay.  I just finished an automated back & forth for 3 rail using DC.  Although not new, I'm thinking maybe I could integrated the trolley announcement track for fun.  I'd have to work Ross track integration and the AC/DC issue but none of that seems insurmountable.    Like other folks, I see an opportunity for the MTH price point.  Maybe invertors will see it too.

I'll give you a hint of what I'm getting

It reads on the side description  in the first paragraph for the 2-10-10-2's that there will also be Safety Valve Steam as a new feature, but below in listed features it doesn't say this. Can anyone verify this? I am torn between the 2-10-10-2 all black or the Mohawk either New Haven or NYC Lines. Being I have a Mohawk from the last run(still one of my favorites to run despite lack of modern features), I am leaning 2-10-10-2, but it'd help to have that safety valve steam clarified.

And yes the passenger car set pricing is getting a bit out of hand.

Outside of the Amtrak Acela Set and the D&RGW Generator passenger car, it is a pretty uninspiring catalog for my interests.  The Acela is out of my budget this year, while I'd be repainting the generator car to Phase I Amtrak so it would be easier to make my own.

I do like the customizable houses.  They would be a nice addition to a suburban style layout.

No disrespect to Lionel, but all the fantasy schemes on the Acela seem like a bit of overkill. 

That ACL SD70 is calling my name!

@Frank Mulligan posted:

The Camden and Amboy John Bull set piques my interest.

Just note that those are conventional if you did not see. I am not interested in them, but saw that at the top and understood because lack of space would be why. If your okay with conventional, you're good to go.

@GOLDRAIL posted:

It reads on the side description  in the first paragraph for the 2-10-10-2's that there will also be Safety Valve Steam as a new feature, but below in listed features it doesn't say this. Can anyone verify this? I am torn between the 2-10-10-2 all black or the Mohawk either New Haven or NYC Lines. Being I have a Mohawk from the last run(still one of my favorites to run despite lack of modern features), I am leaning 2-10-10-2, but it'd help to have that safety valve steam clarified.

And yes the passenger car set pricing is getting a bit out of hand.

I think Lionel's logic was since they listed it in the description twice they don't have to list it a third time under the features section. Also, I would say the price also shows that the 3000's will have the safety valve feature since the original 3000 did not have the feature and was priced at $2,250. Whereas, these offerings are priced at $2,500. Honestly, I am only basing my thought on past offerings and "Lionel logic."

Two things really stand out to me about the couplers on all the cars. Passenger cars have sprung trucks(with the exception of the Acela/high speed trains), O-Scale freight has Diecast trucks with these descriptions, "with rotating bearing caps" or "Diecast and operating couplers" or "Diecast trucks". Some also say, "Operating couplers with hidden tabs". The only freight cars that have sprung trucks that I saw were in the O-Gauge part of the catalog. That is confusing. Of course too, the catalog are has the "thumb-tack" couplers pictured, but as always, "catalog may differ from finished product." Don't think I will be buying any rolling stock this go around(plus nothing appealing to me for those).

The second thing is way back on the Mohawk page. It says, "a custom weathered version, and two "fantasy" paint schemes". Well, I know the fantasy schemes, the gray and Pacemaker(red), which the Pacemaker also looks weathered. It used to be they stated what was weathered or fantasy(though, I think it is plain to see what is fantasy). Anyone have any idea if any of the black Mohawks are weathered? I zoomed in and they don't look like they are, but what the heck do I know?

• UP 4-6-2 3218
• CNJ Blue Comet Camelback
• NYC Pacemaker Mohawk
• NYC Pacemaker Expansion Set?
• ATSF Warbonnet SD70Ace 1859
• RBMN GP35 2531?
• Amtrak Acela & Expansion Pack
• New Hope & Ivyland Set
• C&A John Bull Set
• Rio Grande Ski Train 2-Pack?
• Conrail 65' Mill Gondola
• BNSF Beer Car with Graffiti
• Sierra Railroad Boxcar
• Conrail Ballast Tamper
• W&A General 4-4-0
• Polar Express Sleeper "North Pole"

Don't forget the Ryan and Dave Big Book Catalog show on Lionel's Facebook page today at 3pm ET.  You don't have to have a Facebook account to watch but if you want to ask question then I believe you need an account.

@MartyE posted:

Don't forget the Ryan and Dave Big Book Catalog show on Lionel's Facebook page today at 3pm ET.  You don't have to have a Facebook account to watch but if you want to ask question then I believe you need an account.

Yeah, I'll tune in and hopefully I can ask if they don't say what's what. I know that they won't answer questions for the most part, that usually only happens when TrainWorld hosts them.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Just note that those are conventional if you did not see. I am not interested in them, but saw that at the top and understood because lack of space would be why. If your okay with conventional, you're good to go.

Thanks for pointing that out.  I didn't notice.

I think I'm okay with that since I only have DCS and no TMCC/Legacy equipment.  I was actually thinking, does this mean I will have to invest in a Legacy system?  I guess not just yet.  It gets to me a bit that I have to invest like $1000 just to run a $1000 loco.

Now that I got my hands on the online magazine,  I'm for sure getting:

2134120 Southern #520

2131480 Santa Fe #3009

2143101 D&M Boxcar #2115

Then... that 2131540 NYC Mohawk #2775. It's a good looking locomotive and I don't really have anything like it but the price is a bit steep for this year. We'll see what Uncle Sam says about my income tax return or one of those stimulus checks.

I am strongly considering the following:

SD70ACE - Atlantic Coast Line

SD70ACE - Canadian Pacific (wish they were the prototypical road numbers though)

GP30 - CSX (Chessie)

SW8 - Coors (got the two new beer 🍺 cars to go with it already and they are great)

Nickel Plate Road Work Train 🚂 Set

UP Beer 🍻 Cars

Penn Central TMCC Speeder

I will definitely have to narrow this down but these are my favorites so far. I tried the LVC option on the Lionchief app with a Legacy engine I already own that has Bluetooth and it works amazingly good. You gotta try it out.

@Frank Mulligan posted:

Thanks for pointing that out.  I didn't notice.

I think I'm okay with that since I only have DCS and no TMCC/Legacy equipment.  I was actually thinking, does this mean I will have to invest in a Legacy system?  I guess not just yet.  It gets to me a bit that I have to invest like $1000 just to run a $1000 loco.

Hey Frank, you can find a Legacy command set for under $350 at the big dealers. Connect one wire and you’re up and running. Jump in!

Little known NASA Railroad fact...  This is how NASA transports the Velociraptors it brings back from space.

John Bull Perth Amboy set,

ACL GP7,

Nickel Plate work train

N&S hopper cars,

Will have to think on anything else,

Looking at the Veranda in 2001 it cost $1249, 20 years later it's $400 more dollars at $1649.

Doing an internet search the value of $1249 in today's dollars is $1847.  So I'm not sure that the cost of the new Veranda is much off from what it should be based on the cost of the first run.  I'm sure I messed up these numbers somehow so correct them if I am wrong.

My goal was nothing new until I thin the heard. But, the NKP Pacific with the War Bonds tender keeps staring at me.

Dave said the Mohawk #2790 P/N 2131520 at the bottom of page 16.

With no competition, Lionel can now return to its roots: Fantasy & Non-Prototypical schemes.

@MartyE I did the same check and was surprised that it isn't priced at inflation cost or more.

I saw some fantasy locomotives and I'm glad they made them even though they aren't for me. The red is good looking! But would look weird on my layout.

I'm confused about the weathering on the Mohawks but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

@MartyE posted:

Looking at the Veranda in 2001 it cost $1249, 20 years later it's $400 more dollars at $1649.

Doing an internet search the value of $1249 in today's dollars is $1847.  So I'm not sure that the cost of the new Veranda is much off from what it should be based on the cost of the first run.  I'm sure I messed up these numbers somehow so correct them if I am wrong.

I've always wanted a Veranda, glad to see Lionel bringing it back and with SuperBass to give it the sound presence it needs.

They are saving money by not making EXACT door-style versions of the modern box cars in O scale

Andrew

@BillYo414 posted:

@MartyE I did the same check and was surprised that it isn't priced at inflation cost or more.

I saw some fantasy locomotives and I'm glad they made them even though they aren't for me. The red is good looking! But would look weird on my layout.

I'm confused about the weathering on the Mohawks but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Dave said the Mohawk #2790 P/N 2131520 at the bottom of page 16.

See here Bill, I got Dave to confirm with Ryan.

@falconservice posted:

They are saving money by not making EXACT door-style versions of the modern box cars in O scale

Andrew

As well as the trucks and couplers. I think I have an old double door boxcar that has diecast sprung trucks.  Not so with these.

@SPSF posted:

With no competition, Lionel can now return to its roots: Fantasy & Non-Prototypical schemes.

I wouldn't say fantasy schemes on engines were Lionel's roots at all. This wasn't done much at all in the Postwar era, or the MPC era, or the LTI period, or even since. Really, most of it seems to have been done just in the past 5-6 years or so.

On another note, it looks like only some of the passenger cars contain figures. Steam sets & Acela sets have figures, Diesels sets don't(unless I missed it). I didn't see any Diesel set with figures in the comments, just detail interiors.

@Rider Sandman posted:

Hey Frank, you can find a Legacy command set for under $350 at the big dealers. Connect one wire and you’re up and running. Jump in!

Yeah. For setup, if you think adding Legacy to a DCS layout is an imposing proposition, you have things reversed. 

@breezinup posted:

I wouldn't say fantasy schemes on engines were Lionel's roots at all. This wasn't done much at all in the Postwar era, or the MPC era, or the LTI period, or even since. Really, most of it seems to have been done just in the past 5-6 years or so.

Except a lot of PW stuff was lettered Lionel Lines...

Rusty

Although the Early SG (and 2 7/8") trains had real RR names on them, the Classic Prewar Period is nothing but Lionel.  Between about 1925 and 1960, far more trains wore the Lionel livery than ever wore all real RR names combined, including 1:1 scale.  In that sense, the Lionel name is less fantasy than economic impression.

$9050.  That's how much I need to get the things I really want out of the catalog.  This is ridiculous!

@MartyE posted:

Looking at the Veranda in 2001 it cost $1249, 20 years later it's $400 more dollars at $1649.

Doing an internet search the value of $1249 in today's dollars is $1847.  So I'm not sure that the cost of the new Veranda is much off from what it should be based on the cost of the first run.  I'm sure I messed up these numbers somehow so correct them if I am wrong.

I did the same thing, but with the John Bull.  It would have been $510 in 2008.  In 2021 dollars that's $615, not $1050.  And Lionel didn't even add any value to it, it's still conventional.  Come on Lionel, you can't tell me you could fit boards in it?  They have DCC in Z scale.  Yes, it'll take time and money, but you could reduce the boards from the brass hybrid 4-4-0's to fit.  Or put a DCC standard connector in it so we could open it and add DCC easy.  Or even just buy DCC boards from someone that makes them.  In the end, that's what I'll end up doing if I get one of the sets, drop DCC in it.

And then there's the Pacifics, $1500 for them, yet the S scale ones are $700?  Really?  There isn't that big a difference in size, plus the S ones have DCC!  (Still don't get why S has Legacy/DCC boards yet O does not.)  Some say it's because MTH is closing that Lionel is getting so out of hand, but if you look, their prices have been growing rather quickly since 5-6 years ago, about the time of the 1st VisionLine Big Boy.  On the other hand MTH had moderate price increases more inline with inflation.  As for paying MSRP vs pre-order prices, $15-150 isn't much of a discount.  I'll lose all that in shipping and taxes.

There were a lot of great things this time, 1st time there has been so much I want, but Lionel has priced themselves way out of the ball park anymore for me to ever get more then 1 or 2 things a year instead of 3-4 per catalog.  At the rate things are going I'll just simply stop buying in a couple years.  The joy vs cost just isn't in my favor anymore.

@MartyE posted:

Looking at the Veranda in 2001 it cost $1249, 20 years later it's $400 more dollars at $1649.

Doing an internet search the value of $1249 in today's dollars is $1847.  So I'm not sure that the cost of the new Veranda is much off from what it should be based on the cost of the first run.  I'm sure I messed up these numbers somehow so correct them if I am wrong.

I got my TMCC Veranda about 5 years ago at a price of $600.00 NIB. So maybe if one waits long enough you too can get a deal.  But with today’s prices might be waiting for some time?

@Frank Mulligan posted:

Thanks for pointing that out.  I didn't notice.

I think I'm okay with that since I only have DCS and no TMCC/Legacy equipment.  I was actually thinking, does this mean I will have to invest in a Legacy system?  I guess not just yet.  It gets to me a bit that I have to invest like $1000 just to run a $1000 loco.

Frank, I have DCS and TMCC, have not gone the Legacy route.  I’ve been able to run the 4 Lionel engines I have, as well as the 6 Atlas engines, through DCS with no problem.  You might be able to add TMCC at a significantly lower cost.

Not a single thing.

Already have an Acela so the only thing would be the New Hope and Ivyland set.  Have to check if the actual RR uses those cars and how accurate the set is overall.

Anybody know offhand?

@Rider Sandman posted:

Hey Frank, you can find a Legacy command set for under $350 at the big dealers. Connect one wire and you’re up and running. Jump in!

I added Legacy about a year ago.  Wasn't hard at all.  MTH puts a simple diagram in the front of the catalogs telling you what u need.  I use both systems.  Its in the DCS companion too.

There are a few items in this catalog that are interesting.  However, having been disappointed with an engine I pre-ordered, along with the mystifying paint colors of the last couple years, I will not be pre-ordering anything.  If I am still interested when/if these items arrive some time in the future I might buy a couple if they are available.

@GregM posted:

There are a few items in this catalog that are interesting.  However, having been disappointed with an engine I pre-ordered, along with the mystifying paint colors of the last couple years, I will not be pre-ordering anything.  If I am still interested when/if these items arrive some time in the future I might buy a couple if they are available.

In what way were you disappointed with your purchase?

How we got spoiled by the plethora of options we had when Williams, Weaver, K Line, Atlas, Lionel and MTH catalogues to look forward to annually/semi annually.

@breezinup posted:

I wouldn't say fantasy schemes on engines were Lionel's roots at all. This wasn't done much at all in the Postwar era, or the MPC era, or the LTI period, or even since. Really, most of it seems to have been done just in the past 5-6 years or so.

This post literally made me laugh out loud.  Lionel basically cut its teeth on one big fantasy scheme: “Lionel Lines”!!  Locomotives, freight cars, passenger cars...Lionel Lines was everywhere!  Unless of course you don’t consider Lionel Lines a “fantasy scheme”...although I can’t say I’ve seen many prototype photos of THAT railroad!

Maybe I'm just bummed out by MTH leaving the market and Lionel having minimal competition, but I didn't see anything I gotta have.  And the artwork doesn't generate much excitement.

Some of the fantasy trains look interesting, but waaaay too expensive for my taste.

Absolutely nothing. Very disappointing catalog.

Pat

As others have mentioned, my bank account will not take a hit this time.  Lots of fun fantasy schemes, including the PRR turbine and high speed train, just not what I'm looking for on my layout.  Of the only two Pennsy cars, one is too late for my era and the other is a fantasy scheme.  Maybe next time they will have gray PRR MoW cars and more AFT cars.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

See here Bill, I got Dave to confirm with Ryan.

So the 2131520 #2790 is the only weathered scheme? I'm looking for the non-weathered version.

I like the New Haven PA AA set.  That is the one thing I am pretty sure I will buy.

Ben

@falconservice posted:

The GP30 diesel and the GP35 are a different locomotive design.

If you truly model the SOO LINE you have to get the series of the GP30, GP35, GP40 diesel-electric locomotives.

The SOO LINE got 22 of the GP30s in 1963

The SOO LINE got 4 GP35s in 1964.

The SOO LINE got 6 GP35s in 1965.

The SOO LINE got 4 GP40s in 1967.

The much larger number of GP30s present on the SOO means that you have to get the pair from LIONEL for a proper ratio of motive power.

Andrew

@TM Terry posted:

It's hard to argue with that logic

Maybe it is if you have $1,000.00 cash lying around with nothing to do.   

@breezinup posted:

I wouldn't say fantasy schemes on engines were Lionel's roots at all. This wasn't done much at all in the Postwar era, or the MPC era, or the LTI period, or even since. Really, most of it seems to have been done just in the past 5-6 years or so.

@Rusty Traque posted:

Except a lot of PW stuff was lettered Lionel Lines...

Rusty

Some of the online stores (Nassau, Train World, Legacy Station, etc.) are putting preorders up but are saying deliveries will not be made until the end of the year - I'm new to the hobby in general, does it normally take a year to manufacture and ship? Is there a reasonable chance it will be longer/shorter amount of time?

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

Some of the online stores (Nassau, Train World, Legacy Station, etc.) are putting preorders up but are saying deliveries will not be made until the end of the year - I'm new to the hobby in general, does it normally take a year to manufacture and ship? Is there a reasonable chance it will be longer/shorter amount of time?

The chance of early is near zero. The chance of late is always possible.
Order now and deliver end of year is SOP these days.

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

Some of the online stores (Nassau, Train World, Legacy Station, etc.) are putting preorders up but are saying deliveries will not be made until the end of the year - I'm new to the hobby in general, does it normally take a year to manufacture and ship? Is there a reasonable chance it will be longer/shorter amount of time?

If a catalog comes out on January, items will generally ship September to December.  If a catalog comes out in the middle of the year, items will ship January to April.  This is assuming that there are no delays.

Thanks all, very helpful replies is there any disadvantage to submitting preorders later? (eg, say I want to buy some hard-to-find items used first). Thanks again.

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

Thanks all, very helpful replies is there any disadvantage to submitting preorders later? (eg, say I want to buy some hard-to-find items used first). Thanks again.

Usually I submit my preorder on the last day to make sure that I want the items on my list.  If you choose to not pre-order, then you run the risk of not being able to find an item that you may really want.

@GOLDRAIL posted:

It reads on the side description  in the first paragraph for the 2-10-10-2's that there will also be Safety Valve Steam as a new feature, but below in listed features it doesn't say this. Can anyone verify this? I am torn between the 2-10-10-2 all black or the Mohawk either New Haven or NYC Lines. Being I have a Mohawk from the last run(still one of my favorites to run despite lack of modern features), I am leaning 2-10-10-2, but it'd help to have that safety valve steam clarified.

And yes the passenger car set pricing is getting a bit out of hand.

@Trainmaster04 posted:

I think Lionel's logic was since they listed it in the description twice they don't have to list it a third time under the features section. Also, I would say the price also shows that the 3000's will have the safety valve feature since the original 3000 did not have the feature and was priced at $2,250. Whereas, these offerings are priced at $2,500. Honestly, I am only basing my thought on past offerings and "Lionel logic."

I can’t see that this point has been answered yet but it was addressed in the Ryan/Dave Facebook broadcast. There will NOT be a safety valve steam feature in this issue of the 2-10-10-2s. The reason that was given is that they can’t fit the required smoke unit in the model, which already has three smoke units. I guess what this tells you is that they decide on what’s going in the catalog description before they’ve even finished the product design phase - or before a production engineer has decided what is really feasible. Anyway, that appears to be this year’s main Catalog Clanger.

The boiler of the original VL 2-10-10-2 is very narrow and I guess it can’t accommodate the extra hardware/control board required for this feature.I thought that they might have been thinking of putting in a dual chamber unit for the whistle and the safety valve but it seems that isn’t an option.

My list

• Cowen's Towing Garage
• Baby K4 #5400   LC+ 2.0
• Fort Collins Municipal Trolley  (lived there, college there, rode it)
• Special Trolley Announcement Track
• Lionel Ale Tank Car
• Lionel Ale Elevated Oil Tank
• Space Launch Lionchief set (go with my space area with my Lionel Rocket Launcher)
• Space Launch Allis Chalmers Car
• Romulan Ale Car

I had to stop there for now.  There is much too much in this catalog I want.   For me and the way I do this hobby, it's one of the better ones.

As someone who does not specifically model scale or prototype, this catalog is full of the kinds of things I've always been partial to. Fun accessories, fun locos/paint schemes, and so forth.

The O scale GP30s will take 6 to 10 months to produce.

Is that enough time to be sure that you can store away the dollars to get them?

Andrew

@falconservice posted:

The O scale GP30s will take 6 to 10 months to produce.

Is that enough time to be sure that you can store away the dollars to get them?

Andrew

I probably won't get the GP30s, but I can certainly save enough for something else in that time frame

@breezinup posted:

50 years after the demise of the original Lionel...

Rusty

@Boilermaker1 posted:

The chance of early is near zero. The chance of late is always possible.
Order now and deliver end of year is SOP these days.

Are you counting the 2 months it'll take to get from the dealer to your home via USPS?

I, for one, am planning to go a little crazy. I’m planning to get the Acela (prototype scheme), a veranda turbine, the NKP MOW sets, and some of the vision line box cars. I mainly model NKP but I can’t resist certain “famous” locos or trains. I’m waiting to see some of the custom runs before I finalize my order(s). Without any vacations, going out to eat, or other “fun” expenditures, I thankfully have more funds than usual in my train budget.

@Keith Crook 020419 posted:

I mainly model NKP but I can’t resist certain “famous” locos or trains. I’m waiting to see some of the custom runs before I finalize my order(s). Without any vacations, going out to eat, or other “fun” expenditures, I thankfully have more funds than usual in my train budget.

This. So much this. I'm modelling the steel industry in north east Ohio in the 1940s-1960s but I'll still buy engines and rolling stock that don't fit or are a bit of a stretch just because I like them. I appreciate the purist approach for how professional it winds up looking but some items are just too sharp and cool to pass up!

From late 2019 thru early 2020 I sold over a third of my collection.  I decided to cut way down on the different roadnames that I collect.  In 2020, the biggest purchase I made was the Polar Express Lionchief Plus 2.0 locomotive.

There are only a few items that interest me in this catalog:

- Dilithium Crystals hopper and Romulan Ale Tank Car (I know it is from the 2020 catalog). I don't have the Star Trek set. But, these should go well with my AEC/Alien/Area 51 items.

- Roadrunner Aquarium Car.  I like Roadrunner, and I have a few other pieces of Looney Tunes rolling stock.

- Amtrak Acela and Expansion Pack.  Big $$$'s but I love and have lots of Amtrak.  I have the original Acela and expansion sets still in their boxes.  They have never been run.  I am kind of afraid to run them given all the problems that have been reported.

@Hancock52 posted:

I can’t see that this point has been answered yet but it was addressed in the Ryan/Dave Facebook broadcast. There will NOT be a safety valve steam feature in this issue of the 2-10-10-2s. The reason that was given is that they can’t fit the required smoke unit in the model, which already has three smoke units. I guess what this tells you is that they decide on what’s going in the catalog description before they’ve even finished the product design phase - or before a production engineer has decided what is really feasible. Anyway, that appears to be this year’s main Catalog Clanger.

The boiler of the original VL 2-10-10-2 is very narrow and I guess it can’t accommodate the extra hardware/control board required for this feature.I thought that they might have been thinking of putting in a dual chamber unit for the whistle and the safety valve but it seems that isn’t an option.

Well, that threw a wrench into the works. I got real excited about that feature “being” in this issue of 3000's, but I guess that is Lionel for you. They tell you one thing, get your hopes up, and then those hopes are torn down because somebody didn't communicate with their coworker.

I understand why they can't do it but why put it out there if they know they can't do it in the first place? ...smh... I also understand everyone makes mistakes but it just gets tiring to have to deal with the same mistake over and over again. I don't know what hurts worse, the QC of Lionel's catalog, or the QC of their products. ...smh... Personally, I will probably still preorder a 3000 for fun/investment purposes and get over it. It's just sad a person just can't sit down, look at a catalog, enjoy it, and then have to think twice about it being correct or not.

@BillYo414 posted:

So the 2131520 #2790 is the only weathered scheme? I'm looking for the non-weathered version.

I believe these are none weathered on the picture. The Pacemaker one looks like it is in the artwork. Top left two NYC, New Haven below those, right side NYC prototypical black with 20TH Century version underneath. To be absolutely sure either contact Lionel(if your lucky), or perhaps your local Lionel dealer will have it listed on their order sheets. Ryan stated he believed the weathered was what I stated that you asked back to me. I'll know hopefully for sure when I get to my local dealer tomorrow as I will ask as soon as I get the catalog, but will wait to order as need more time to consider.

I am thinking of the New Haven “L2a Mohawk” (although the NH 3507 was actually classified an R2a Mountain, but I don’t count rivets!!!). Also, the Pacemaker expansion set.

@Apples55 posted:

I am thinking of the New Haven “L2a Mohawk” (although the NH 3507 was actually classified an R2a Mountain, but I don’t count rivets!!!). Also, the Pacemaker expansion set.

Mohawks are Mountains, but not all Mountains are Mohawks.

@Greg Houser posted:

Just saw this on the NP O-Gaugers Facebook page - hilarious:

This is NOT meant to be a political post.  There are a slew of Bernie memes going viral and this just adds to the collection.

As to what I'm getting - not much this year.  I'll be getting the Angela Trotta Thomas Christmas shop but that's about it.  Would like to see a PRR Camelback in the next catalogue.

-Greg

Hahah Hennings memes are fire! this is too much.

Not a lot of love for the Acela Sets here.

I primarily collect electric passenger trains and don't have Acela yet. So, I am ordering the Acela with the expansion cars.

I will also get the New hope set and I am considering the Strasburg switcher.

Hello all,

a newbie here, so apologies if this is a dumb question or wrong place for this: Interested in the LC Baby K4’s. Aside from the tuscan red version, are there any differences in color/markings of the other 3 road numbers? The boiler looks very dark green; hard to tell. I tried to read a little about the numbers; please correct/expand if any errors/new info:

5400 is the first in the Baldwin built series (rest were built at Juniata)

3750 survives at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania

1361 is in pieces in Altoona, hoping to become operational one day.

is there anything else about the different road numbers that would sway you towards one or the other?

Thanks!

I have not seen much discussion of the Camelbacks. I already let my local dealer know I will absolutely need a Reading Camelback. Legacy with whistle steam for a list of $649.99 seems actually very reasonable to me. Lionel’s web site lists whistle steam, blow down steam, and swinging bell in the description. There’s no way that’s all accurate.

http://www.lionel.com/products...amelback-652-2131440

I mostly do PRR, Reading, R&N, and demonstrators, but a Veranda is very much of interest. The Vision PRR box car looks nice, but not at a list or $199.99.

Interesting catalog. Most items are not for me, but definitely a few interesting items.

- Matt

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

Some of the online stores (Nassau, Train World, Legacy Station, etc.) are putting preorders up but are saying deliveries will not be made until the end of the year - I'm new to the hobby in general, does it normally take a year to manufacture and ship? Is there a reasonable chance it will be longer/shorter amount of time?

Since you're new to this...  Strongly suggest against preordering from any dealer that requires a down payment. There are plenty of reputable dealers who do not require any prepayment.  (I'm not criticizing any of the online stores that you mention, as I don't know their specific policies.)

@Nucci posted:

Hello all,

a newbie here, so apologies if this is a dumb question or wrong place for this: Interested in the LC Baby K4’s. Aside from the tuscan red version, are there any differences in color/markings of the other 3 road numbers? The boiler looks very dark green; hard to tell.

Dark green looks correct - I'm not a major Pennsylvania guy but as I understand, a very dark shade of green (and tuscan red) was one of their distinctive colors, in the same way that UP is yellow, Conrail was blue, etc.

Edit, forgot to answer someone else:

@Mallard4468 posted:

Since you're new to this...  Strongly suggest against preordering from any dealer that requires a down payment. There are plenty of reputable dealers who do not require any prepayment.  (I'm not criticizing any of the online stores that you mention, as I don't know their specific policies.)

I'm curious, is there a reason why? I would personally prefer to pay it all up front frankly (which was part of the reason I was wondering about waiting on preordering, maybe I could minimize the time I wait for my item by preordering later ).

@Paul Finn posted:

Already have an Acela so the only thing would be the New Hope and Ivyland set.  Have to check if the actual RR uses those cars and how accurate the set is overall.

Anybody know offhand?

The color scheme in the catalog looks like a good match to the prototype pictured in 2011.

@Lehigh74 posted:

The color scheme in the catalog looks like a good match to the prototype pictured in 2011.

Lionel has been having trouble with reds. Whether the delivered product will match the catalog / prototype won't be known until it's removed from the box in a year.

I would be apprehensive about preordering.

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

I'm curious, is there a reason why? I would personally prefer to pay it all up front frankly (which was part of the reason I was wondering about waiting on preordering, maybe I could minimize the time I wait for my item by preordering later ).

It really depends on your view about pre-ordering generally. Some people don't like the "Built To Order" approach although in fact Lionel and MTH operated the equivalent system before it came to be labelled as "BTO." And parting with, say, a 10% deposit several months before the product is delivered is thought to be a financial imposition. I think it helps the dealers, at least in terms of giving them an assurance the order is a serious proposition, although not all of them require it. Also, I'm in the same camp as you as far as paying up front is concerned.

But I don't think that waiting will actually get you the model any faster in the end. Pre-orders generally ship as soon as the product arrives at the dealer. If you wait to see if they have a surplus of the model you want and order it then, it will usually go out slightly later depending on the dealer's existing commitment. Moreover, in the recent past, pre-order prices were generally appreciably lower than later orders through the regular channels although that has not been true of certain models. I think it all really depends on what the specific dealer has estimated can be sold of a particular model.

On that score (quantities), with so many "fantasy" or non-protoypical variations of some of the models in this catalog, I really wonder if the actual quantities of individual versions will be relatively small. I decided to place one order now at the pre-order discount on the basis that could support production of the version I want. And as I don't expect very many of it to be produced, I don't want to take my chances in the later or secondary market after a small quantity has been made and mostly spoken for.

However, nowadays just about everyone factors in the "wait and see" approach given Lionel's QC issues. I don't think I can on this occasion because I think that the production run of what I am after will be small, and if there are issues the dealer I use will be better at resolving them than other (smaller) businesses.

Not pre-ordering a thing.  Would like to get a couple new scale Polar Express coaches but won't dare until we see how the paint matches.  Their color matching has been a complete debacle, IMO.  And they even say they don't need to match in the catalog....so there is no recourse other than not buying...so I won't.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Ryan stated he believed the weathered was what I stated that you asked back to me. I'll know hopefully for sure when I get to my local dealer tomorrow as I will ask as soon as I get the catalog, but will wait to order as need more time to consider.

I caught that portion of the video and it sounds like it was the bottom left locomotive that is weathered. We'll see what you find out.

I'm still on the fence about ordering one. I mean I could easily pick up a side hustle this summer to get the money together but something keeps telling me to hold off. Maybe I'll wait to see what's in the second catalog.

@VADarthDad posted:

Not pre-ordering a thing.  Would like to get a couple new scale Polar Express coaches but won't dare until we see how the paint matches.  Their color matching has been a complete debacle, IMO.  And they even say they don't need to match in the catalog....so there is no recourse other than not buying...so I won't.

Totally understandable. I'm not a scale, rivet-counting, model-must-match-real-world guy and am not upset when a piece I buy doesn't perfectly match the catalog or my expectation. But, I DO expect consistency. For example, I bought a pair of Williams Golden Memories O27 cars and they're a near-perfect match to my old postwar other than saying Luxury Lines instead of Lionel Lines. Easily fooled my cousins who remembered the originals at my grandfather's house.

I'm toying with buying a LC General set and running the new cars with my old 1960 ones (without the old engine whose motor needs some work), but I fear the yellows will be way off.  Will only buy if I can physically see what I'm buying.

@RickO posted:

Lionel has been having trouble with reds. Whether the delivered product will match the catalog / prototype won't be known until it's removed from the box in a year.

I would be apprehensive about preordering.

I have to agree.

I plan on preordering the Strasburg and Conrail diesel switchers since both are within my budget, I am a fan of both road names, and Lionel has a good track record with blacks and Conrail blues.

I love the New Hope & Ivyland, and the features on that engine and cars are great, but if the paint color is extremely off, it’s not worth it. I’m not so worried if the engine has electronic bugs (those can be fixed relatively easily), but fixing the paint color is another issue entirely. It feels like paint color inaccuracies are becoming a much more common issue from Lionel than electronic bugs (locomotive-wise, at least in my experience) and definitely need to be looked at.

I'm not pre-ordering but these items appealed to me:

• Ore car 6-packs.  At an MSRP of $150 for 6 w/ unique numbers & loads these are actually reasonably priced
• The O-Scale house/structure (roll-your-own) kits seem very innovative.  Well done, Lionel! 
• The coil loads (probably a re-tread of the Weaver version).  If you're modeling steel, you can never have enough coils laying around.

George

To start:  The Southern Pacific Veranda.

More to come.

Great catalog.

Nada.

@G3750 posted:

• Ore car 6-packs.  At an MSRP of $150 for 6 w/ unique numbers & loads these are actually reasonably priced

I have the UP ore car 6-pack, it's a great way to build a long train quickly. They also have 6-pack hopper cars too - hoping to pick some up to make a coal train

@Hancock52 posted:

It really depends on your view about pre-ordering generally. Some people don't like the "Built To Order" approach although in fact Lionel and MTH operated the equivalent system before it came to be labelled as "BTO."

...

But I don't think that waiting will actually get you the model any faster in the end. Pre-orders generally ship as soon as the product arrives at the dealer. If you wait to see if they have a surplus of the model you want and order it then, it will usually go out slightly later depending on the dealer's existing commitment. Moreover, in the recent past, pre-order prices were generally appreciably lower than later orders through the regular channels although that has not been true of certain models. I think it all really depends on what the specific dealer has estimated can be sold of a particular model.

...

I don't want to take my chances in the later or secondary market after a small quantity has been made and mostly spoken for.

I'm reluctant to preorder or buy brand new on the first day in general - it seems everything from software to appliances, etc, will have some overlooked issues, so my personal policy has always been to wait a month or more for problems to be identified and resolved. But I have the same concern as you here - I was hoping to get a LC+2.0 Lionmaster Allegheny last year but apparently the production run was cancelled due to lack of preorders. I think i'd rather have to send an engine back for day 1 repair than not have that engine at all, but then again I'd prefer to not have to make that choice in the first place and just have everything work perfectly from the start.

So  far I am ordering the Canadian Pacific SD70ace locomotive #2021 and the John Deer Refrigerator car.  I'm not one to complain about what Lionel has cataloged but I feel I must comment on what isn't in the catalog. I would have liked to have seen more "Lionel Lines" postwar inspired cars and trains, to include new 6464 inspired boxcars.  I like the K-4's but it would have been a nice been a nice tribute to their heritage if Lionel had one available as a Lionel Lines version with a postwar number, maybe 2035 or 675.  Lionel should not be afraid to offer non-prototypical paint schemes on their scale locomotives and cars.  Hey, what's wrong with a Lionel Lines SD70ace locomotive? I would have bought one!

I would also like to see more Providence and Worcester as well as CP and CN.

I am glad that Lionel is doing well and that many people are happy.

Ordered today.  Finally got my Turbine and also the Legacy Santa Fe 3001. 

Oh also the three Wings of Angels boxcars. I figure I am helping them stay in college

@BillYo414 posted:

I caught that portion of the video and it sounds like it was the bottom left locomotive that is weathered. We'll see what you find out.

I'm still on the fence about ordering one. I mean I could easily pick up a side hustle this summer to get the money together but something keeps telling me to hold off. Maybe I'll wait to see what's in the second catalog.

Well, I got nothing unfortunately. I talked to Tony my local dealer, and it appears Lionel has flubbed once again with distribution. This time they got the catalogs out, but not the order sheets. Tony also pointed out that weathered locomotives are usually more expensive. So, I sent out an email to hopefully get a definite answer about what is being weathered and not.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Well, I got nothing unfortunately. I talked to Tony my local dealer, and it appears Lionel has flubbed once again with distribution. This time they got the catalogs out, but not the order sheets. Tony also pointed out that weathered locomotives are usually more expensive. So, I sent out an email to hopefully get a definite answer about what is being weathered and not.

Not sure about the order sheets as several forum sponsors and shops have already posted their pricing.

@MartyE posted:

Not sure about the order sheets as several forum sponsors and shops have already posted their pricing.

Well, they probably know what their price breaks are and what they can sell for. I am hoping that it is just because my dealer doesn't get direct from Lionel. If I don't get an answer, I'll just drop a line to Ryan and see what he says.

@palallin posted:

Hey, breezinup, you quoted me but didn't make a comment.  Did I miss something?

No, I messed up. Sorry. I got sidetracked and had to leave and accidentally sent your message before making the comment. I was just going to agree with your statement that "I might have looked harder at the Christmas Lights Set if it weren't infested with LEDs.  Give me real lights."

I agree. Unless you're a young child, perhaps, there's such a thing as overdoing it. The MTH LED lined engines and cars that have been produced seem to turn people's cranks, and I have several of the cars, but the overly bright LEDs overpower everything else, and after a while get to be too much. Just my opinion, but I would prefer lights that were toned down a bit. Only my preference.

@Rusty Traque posted:

50 years after the demise of the original Lionel...

Rusty

Well, of course. It was just a little humor, for heaven's sake.

Personally, I don't consider that putting lettering of the name of the manufacturer on the tender of an all-black steam engine qualifies as a "fantasy paint scheme." I don't think it was ever considered so or stated to be so - not by Lionel, or anyone else.

If someone wants to argue about that, that's fine, but I think it's a specious argument, at best. Just IMHO, of course.

I know what I "want":

• Veranda Turbine Rio Grande  #4010
• Ski Train Power Passenger Car "Rio Grande"
• Ski Train StationSounds Diner "Rio Grande"
• Ski Train Passenger Car Set "Rio Grande" (2-Car)
• Ski Train Passenger Car Set "Rio Grande" (4-Car)
• CSX Tamper

I guess a man can dream.

A

You can order directly from Lionel's store on their website. Of course, you will pay full retail. The advantage is that you get your items earlier than anyone else directly from Lionel. So that's the trade off.  I have placed my orders directly with Lionel and have been very satisfied with the service.

I posted earlier that I'm in for an SP Bloody Nose Veranda.  "Gotta" love those closely modeled prototypes. 

Also coming home:  L2133630 Southern Pacific SW 8, #1102.

More, certainly, as time and the catalog grow more familiar.

Great catalog.  Only thing missing?  More accessories!  And, we still need the "Spy v. Spy" series - if licensing issues can be finally worked out.

Most likely I will purchase the Strasburg SW8.I would love to have the Amtrak Acela but it is out of my price range.

@breezinup posted:

No, I messed up. Sorry. I got sidetracked and had to leave and accidentally sent your message before making the comment.

No problem!  I was just confused (and that ain't hard!).

@GOLDRAIL posted:

It reads on the side description  in the first paragraph for the 2-10-10-2's that there will also be Safety Valve Steam as a new feature, but below in listed features it doesn't say this. Can anyone verify this? I am torn between the 2-10-10-2 all black or the Mohawk either New Haven or NYC Lines. Being I have a Mohawk from the last run(still one of my favorites to run despite lack of modern features), I am leaning 2-10-10-2, but it'd help to have that safety valve steam clarified.