Here in Los Angeles at AGHR, we run 5 TIU's all hooked up with WIFI. After getting Legacy to work on the DCS premium app, I have used it exclusively. Yes, it does have some hiccups, however, this is definitely the way to run trains. The only downside I see at the moment is that it's a drain on my cell phone battery. However, I also bring my Ipad and have a mophie for phone charging. I have two broken DCS remotes with no intention of fixing them.
Jeff in LA
clem k posted:I do a lot of switching and do the Inglenook puzzle a lot.
I'm trying to like the app
But I find myself looking more at the iPhone instead of the train
Watching what my finger is doing instead of the locomotive, maybe when I get my iPad mini it will be different
. If not then I will stock up on remotes (have four now) and spare thumb wheels. Also having control problems I didn't have before, so maybe even get rid of 6.0 Meanwhile I'm still trying
You make a good point - Im a sound engineer - and I've experienced the same feeling when running a live show with my tablet.
My mixer has both physical faders and wi-fi control - but when using wi-fi - you always have to be looking at the tablet/phone when making adjustments - compared to using the physical fader where I can push the fader with my finger - and pull it back without looking. Tablet has the advantage of being able to move around the room - which is important for fine tuning sound - but not so important running trains.
I think as these systems evolve we'll see physical train controllers that have more feel - and we'll just use the tablets/phones for displays.
Unfortunately - locomotive throttles aren't the most glamorous things in the world - but a physical control working with the digital/wi-fi would be nice.
I have watched some using their phone or tablet. What I see is more eyes on the phone and not the trains. What has happened to the fun of running toy trains? You guys might as well sell them and play trains with a game app.
jim
Barry,
Coming in November - the DCS Explorer?
Is this going to be another E-Book?
Also, I like your comment -
With apologies to George Lucas:
"These are not the droids that you're looking for." 
Jim your exactly right !!
gunrunnerjohn posted:Unless they suddenly redesigned the WiFi unit, yes. We had a big discussion about this very fact when the WiFi was coming out.
and if you all need clarity that guns is correct please go to mth website and download the user manual for the wiu it states it clearly.
ill stick to a transformer if it breaks its fixable amazing how old redundant technology still works.
to each there own good luck!
I'm getting my popcorn ready for years of entertainment
Jim 1939 posted:I have watched some using their phone or tablet. What I see is more eyes on the phone and not the trains. What has happened to the fun of running toy trains? You guys might as well sell them and play trains with a game app.
jim
OH SO 100% Correct!
Roving Sign posted:.....................................I think as these systems evolve we'll see physical train controllers that have more feel - and we'll just use the tablets/phones for displays.
...............................
Who is likely to invest in the technology/tooling to produce such hardware? MTH is specifically trying to get out of doing hardware by using the app for the controller.
I hardly can imagine them or some other third party investing to go back to hardware when it seems a significant portion of the train population (at least statistically, of the commenters here) seems to embrace the app.
-Dave
Dave45681 posted:Roving Sign posted:.....................................I think as these systems evolve we'll see physical train controllers that have more feel - and we'll just use the tablets/phones for displays.
...............................
Who is likely to invest in the technology/tooling to produce such hardware? MTH is specifically trying to get out of doing hardware by using the app for the controller.
I hardly can imagine them or some other third party investing to go back to hardware when it seems a significant portion of the train population (at least statistically, of the commenters here) seems to embrace the app.
-Dave
These kind of controllers are simple encoders and would work with the app software. Instead of pushing the arrow on your app - you'll grab a handle or something and turn it - and see the result on your app screen - For people who prefer the tactile control of a conventional transformer - I think it represents a best of both worlds approach.
eddiem posted:Three comments:
1) If MTH goes only wifi, then they should come out with a single wifi unit that is a combined WIU and TIU, at a price better than the current combined price of these two wifi-required items!
2) You can run a program on most Windows PCs that allow you to run Android apps on the PC. Then you run the MTH app in the Android emulator program. Voila! DCS wifi control from a PC!
Google search: "You can run Android apps on a Windows PC or laptop using an Android emulator app. BlueStacks is one solution. YouWave and KoPlayer are alternatives for emulating Android in Windows."
3) I understand technology and all that, and embrace it, but.... The ability to change speed, and other parameters on a DCS remote "by touch" without looking at the control is a valuable feature of the current handheld remote. On our modular layout, I can talk to people and adjust parameters on my trains (speed, blow whistles, uncouple, direction) without having to look down at a screen to see (precisely) where to put my finger for each command!
Just my 3 cents!
ed
1) It would be logical that a device like this is in the works. If MTH doesn't offer the DCS remote, why buy a TIU with a 900MHz receiver that can't be used.
2) Agreed, a bit clunky at times but it works. Also check out what Mark has done with the FREE RTC program that allows PC control of your layout, I think you may like it better: DCS Control from a PC
3) Agreed. I love the app and the smooth interface, but I always look back at the early YouTube videos of Mike Wolfe and his 10" iPad and noticed how unwieldy that looked and operated. I am finding though that as I use the app more on an old Motorola smart phone with 4.3" screen, I am getting more comfortable with single handed operation and changing between menus and manipulating accessories and switches is faster and easier with the app. For me, the pros outweigh the cons when it comes to the app over the remote.
I was just looking at getting the wifi adapter this morning on an advertisers Memorial day sale.
I have 5 tiu's, do I need five wifi adapters? If I do I'll be sticking with the handheld remotes until the price drops substantially!!!!
Roving Sign posted:clem k posted:I do a lot of switching and do the Inglenook puzzle a lot.
I'm trying to like the app
You make a good point - Im a sound engineer - and I've experienced the same feeling when running a live show with my tablet.
My mixer has both physical faders and wi-fi control - but when using wi-fi - you always have to be looking at the tablet/phone when making adjustments - compared to using the physical fader where I can push the fader with my finger - and pull it back without looking. Tablet has the advantage of being able to move around the room - which is important for fine tuning sound - but not so important running trains.
I think as these systems evolve we'll see physical train controllers that have more feel - and we'll just use the tablets/phones for displays.
Unfortunately - locomotive throttles aren't the most glamorous things in the world - but a physical control working with the digital/wi-fi would be nice.
So how about a device (like a play station controller) that connects to your phone/tablet (Wired or Wireless) that can be setup to control specific functions on your DCS app? Kind of plays into the idea that Tablet will just be a display.
Or how about voice commands to control your trains using Siri or Google Speak.
The sky is limit with this technology.
rboatertoo posted:I was just looking at getting the wifi adapter this morning on an advertisers Memorial day sale.
I have 5 tiu's, do I need five wifi adapters? If I do I'll be sticking with the handheld remotes until the price drops substantially!!!!
Yes. 1 WIU per TIU. So 5 TIUs = 5 WIUs.
I guess I'll be waiting a while, spending $800 on the wifi or a couple of engines.... I'll pick engines all the time. I have the Lionel wifi and I rarely use it.
rboatertoo posted:I was just looking at getting the wifi adapter this morning on an advertisers Memorial day sale.
I have 5 tiu's, do I need five wifi adapters? If I do I'll be sticking with the handheld remotes until the price drops substantially!!!!
Yep.
Why would you think the WIU price will drop? In the history of the DCS hardware, it has only gone up (though not often I will admit), never gone down. Why would the WIU be any different? (In fairness the Legacy hardware hasn't dropped in price either).
The only train related tech I recall effectively going down in price was 20 years ago when Lionel first offered the combined Command Base and Remote for TMCC (previously you had to buy each component separately, most likely due to the evolution where the original Power Masters and remote came out first, followed by the command base a bit later). I think the pricing on that combined offering was probably intended as a loss leader though to get people to adopt the tech at that time (and it probably worked! 
)
-Dave
H1000 posted:Roving Sign posted:clem k posted:I do a lot of switching and do the Inglenook puzzle a lot.
I'm trying to like the app
You make a good point - Im a sound engineer - and I've experienced the same feeling when running a live show with my tablet.
My mixer has both physical faders and wi-fi control - but when using wi-fi - you always have to be looking at the tablet/phone when making adjustments - compared to using the physical fader where I can push the fader with my finger - and pull it back without looking. Tablet has the advantage of being able to move around the room - which is important for fine tuning sound - but not so important running trains.
I think as these systems evolve we'll see physical train controllers that have more feel - and we'll just use the tablets/phones for displays.
Unfortunately - locomotive throttles aren't the most glamorous things in the world - but a physical control working with the digital/wi-fi would be nice.
So how about a device (like a play station controller) that connects to your phone/tablet (Wired or Wireless) that can be setup to control specific functions on your DCS app? Kind of plays into the idea that Tablet will just be a display.
Or how about voice commands to control your trains using Siri or Google Speak.
The sky is limit with this technology.
For sure - these new systems are in their infancy - once there are a substantial number users - things will really start happening.
I maintain - MTH is making a BIG PLAY for the conventional market with the new DCS Explorer - They want bring in as many conventional runners - and newbies to the MTH digital ecosystem. LIONEL is on the wrong track and has left the door WIDE open for MTH.
They got me - preordered the DCS Explorer!
Roving Sign posted:I maintain - MTH is making a BIG PLAY for the conventional market with the new DCS Explorer - They want bring in as many conventional runners - and newbies to the MTH digital ecosystem. LIONEL is on the wrong track and has left the door WIDE open for MTH.They got me - preordered the DCS Explorer!
Well, if that is their plan they are losing me. Give me tactile controller any day. When my DCS remote goes belly up I will be looking for a couple of Post War ZWs. Whistle, smoke, and chuff is all I need. K.I.S.S.
Pete
Norton posted:Roving Sign posted:I maintain - MTH is making a BIG PLAY for the conventional market with the new DCS Explorer - They want bring in as many conventional runners - and newbies to the MTH digital ecosystem. LIONEL is on the wrong track and has left the door WIDE open for MTH.They got me - preordered the DCS Explorer!
Well, if that is their plan they are losing me. Give me tactile controller any day. When my DCS remote goes belly up I will be looking for a couple of Post War ZWs. Whistle, smoke, and chuff is all I need. K.I.S.S.
Pete
The electronics in these engines by any manufacture have remove your level KISS, for reliability and troubleshooting side of things.
The Z4000 would be a better option. MTH hasn't mention anything about discontinuing the Z4000 commander remote! (Z4000 Remote commander)
H1000 posted:Norton posted:Roving Sign posted:I maintain - MTH is making a BIG PLAY for the conventional market with the new DCS Explorer - They want bring in as many conventional runners - and newbies to the MTH digital ecosystem. LIONEL is on the wrong track and has left the door WIDE open for MTH.They got me - preordered the DCS Explorer!
Well, if that is their plan they are losing me. Give me tactile controller any day. When my DCS remote goes belly up I will be looking for a couple of Post War ZWs. Whistle, smoke, and chuff is all I need. K.I.S.S.
Pete
The electronics in these engines by any manufacture have remove your level KISS, for reliability and troubleshooting side of things.
The Z4000 would be a better option. MTH hasn't mention anything about discontinuing the Z4000 commander remote! (Z4000 Remote commander)
I have been designing stuff like this for nearly 50 years with particular effort on the human interface. Making it easy for non professionals to use my devices. The electronics don't bother me. Existing handhelds can be used without looking at them. Touch screens are a big step backwards.
Pete
If you are using an Apple device there is no need to look at the screen:
clem k posted:I do a lot of switching and do the Inglenook puzzle a lot.
I'm trying to like the app
Proto 3 can be run by blue tooth and yet from what I have read not one person has brought that up.
No need for any extra equipment to run trains just the blue tooth app.
It looks like the dcs explorer which will be in every train set, so is the Bluetooth based?
if not what does the dcs explorer really do?
david1 posted:Proto 3 can be run by blue tooth and yet from what I have read not one person has brought that up.
No need for any extra equipment to run trains just the blue tooth app.
Really? This is news to me. Who makes the Bluetooth app for MTH?
ChooChoo1972 posted:If you are using an Apple device there is no need to look at the screen:clem k posted:I do a lot of switching and do the Inglenook puzzle a lot.
I'm trying to like the app
???? Try again...
david1 posted:Proto 3 can be run by blue tooth and yet from what I have read not one person has brought that up.
Pretty sure it can't - any linkage to support this assertion?
The operating systems of most Android and i-type devices have built-in accessibility apps, with names such as explore-by-touch and talkback, that support use by people with visual impairments. Unfortunately, the user interface of the DCS app is only partially compatible with these accessibility apps. (I tried it.) Even for the cases in which the DCS app supports the accessibility apps, it can take so long to find and execute the desired function that reliable train operation (and crash avoidance) becomes impossible. Bottom line is that, even with the apps that support vision-free operation of Android and i-type devices, you can't run the DCS app without looking at the device -- something that is definitely not true with the old fashioned remote.
H1000 posted:The electronics in these engines by any manufacture have remove your level KISS, for reliability and troubleshooting side of things.
The Z4000 would be a better option. MTH hasn't mention anything about discontinuing the Z4000 commander remote! (Z4000 Remote commander)
It's been a while, so maybe you missed it? MTH did their final run of these a few years ago. It doesn't mean you might not find one in a store, but it's in the past in terms of manufacturing. Parts obsolescence.
This was actually discussed in a thread a few days ago. See here.
I do stand corrected. The last news that I heard was that MTH discontinued the 40-4002 which is the receiver by itself without the remote but was continuing to build the 40-4001 which is both parts. I must be mistaken on the news that I heard.
H1000 posted:I do stand corrected. The last news that I heard was that MTH discontinued the 40-4002 which is the receiver by itself without the remote but was continuing to build the 40-4001 which is both parts. I must be mistaken on the news that I heard.
That is a huge issue. How will the MTH WiFi run these? Many use them to control transformer voltage.
I agree, it leaves a big hole in remote control of conventional trains that MTH use to fill nicely. We all know that a TIU has the variable channels to help fill this gap, but it's a little overkill for the job when an operator only runs conventional and wants a remote.
The Receiver has 9 pin serial port and MTH never really explained it's true purpose why. It may be the key to the puzzle for a hack.
BobbyD,
That is a huge issue. How will the MTH WiFi run these? Many use them to control transformer voltage.
This point has been made with MTH. They are aware of the problem for some of us operators who rely on under-the-table placement of the Z4000.
Unfortunately, the DCS App cannot operate the Z4000 remotely without the introduction of new hardware. The Z4000 receiver module talks 900 MHz (like the TIU and DCS Remote) while the WIU and smart devices talk 2.4 GHz.
Roving Sign posted:eddiem posted:Three comments:
1) If MTH goes only wifi, then they should come out with a single wifi unit that is a combined WIU and TIU, at a price better than the current combined price of these two wifi-required items!
Coming in November - the DCS Explorer
That's not even close to a TIU with WiFi, it's a one channel unit. If that is the TIU replacement, we truly are taking giant steps to the rear!
gunrunnerjohn posted:Roving Sign posted:eddiem posted:Three comments:
1) If MTH goes only wifi, then they should come out with a single wifi unit that is a combined WIU and TIU, at a price better than the current combined price of these two wifi-required items!
Coming in November - the DCS Explorer
That's not even close to a TIU with WiFi, it's a one channel unit. If that is the TIU replacement, we truly are taking giant steps to the rear!
Then what is it? Seems its being described as TIU and WIU in one box - comes with the new starter sets.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Roving Sign posted:eddiem posted:Three comments:
1) If MTH goes only wifi, then they should come out with a single wifi unit that is a combined WIU and TIU, at a price better than the current combined price of these two wifi-required items!
Coming in November - the DCS Explorer
That's not even close to a TIU with WiFi, it's a one channel unit. If that is the TIU replacement, we truly are taking giant steps to the rear!
Who said it was a TIU replacement? Its new product aimed at the conventional market - a brilliant move by MTH.
Roving Sign posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Roving Sign posted:eddiem posted:Three comments:
1) If MTH goes only wifi, then they should come out with a single wifi unit that is a combined WIU and TIU, at a price better than the current combined price of these two wifi-required items!
Coming in November - the DCS Explorer
That's not even close to a TIU with WiFi, it's a one channel unit. If that is the TIU replacement, we truly are taking giant steps to the rear!
Then what is it? Seems its being described as TIU and WIU in one box - comes with the new starter sets.
You might have answered your own question... comes with the new starter sets.
MTH hasn't released a starter set with a TIU and remote to date yet.
The DCS explorer will be an introductory device, and as I understand it will lack many of the advance features of the TIU.
Check out the latest DCS User Group meeting minutes, there was a lot more information provided about the DCS Explorer.
Roving Sign posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Roving Sign posted:eddiem posted:Three comments:
1) If MTH goes only wifi, then they should come out with a single wifi unit that is a combined WIU and TIU, at a price better than the current combined price of these two wifi-required items!
Coming in November - the DCS Explorer
That's not even close to a TIU with WiFi, it's a one channel unit. If that is the TIU replacement, we truly are taking giant steps to the rear!
Who said it was a TIU replacement? Its new product aimed at the conventional market - a brilliant move by MTH.
Look at what was quoted by you and answer your question for yourself! You are the one that just offered it up as the combined TIU and WIU, not me. If you're going to argue, at least know what you're arguing about!
gunrunnerjohn posted:Roving Sign posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Roving Sign posted:eddiem posted:Three comments:
1) If MTH goes only wifi, then they should come out with a single wifi unit that is a combined WIU and TIU, at a price better than the current combined price of these two wifi-required items!
Coming in November - the DCS Explorer
That's not even close to a TIU with WiFi, it's a one channel unit. If that is the TIU replacement, we truly are taking giant steps to the rear!
Who said it was a TIU replacement? Its new product aimed at the conventional market - a brilliant move by MTH.
Look at what was quoted by you and answer your question for yourself! You are the one that just offered it up as the combined TIU and WIU, not me.
Can you be a little more specific - I have no idea what you are trying to say...nor am I arguing.
If its not a TIU and WIU in one - what is it?
I understand its not going to be full fledged DCS system - but a nice entry point - and in fact a TIU and WIU in one...functionally speaking - and uses the same apps as the full DCS WIU.
I never called it a "replacement" for the TIU. It appears the existing products (sans handheld) will continue as the core product - and the DCS Explorer will serve as a conduit to a full fledged DCS setup.
What am I missing?
We've frozen our DCS at Release 4.3, and have kept the Big Red Wheel version of TMCC.
Since then, no software conflicts/problems/debugging sessions, etc.
A pleasure to not be in WiFi Land, nor any intention to move beyond our handheld controllers, nor upgrade either system again.
We've stopped purchasing locomotives, having about 70+ of them in various flavors, and hundreds of freight and passenger cars, and seeing nothing notable for the Northwest in recent catalogs, only ordering the switcher for next year in SP&S livery from Lionel. It will be the only Legacy engine on the layout, and probably will remain so, running under original TMCC only.
Done with purchasing I think, now concentrating on putting all the goodies etc on the layout bones, and putting the final trackwork in place (a car repair shop lead and tracks, and the industrial island in the center of the layout.
None of the three grandsons are interested in trains, toys or otherwise, and live on their iPad handheld things.
Grandma will sell it all when I die, move to Italy, and marry some 30-year-old Italian stud I imagine, and buy a Porsche, in all likely-hood.
I'm in DCC, and throttles that you always have to look at to operate are not fun, you spend more time staring at the cell phone screen than watching and enjoying your trains.
I do large scale outdoors, and color phone screens are not worth a crap in the sun.
Pretty soon, running DCS will be like watching couples at a restaurant, everyone staring at their cell phone.
Greg
Good move Kerrigan !! I wish I would have stayed at 4.30 or less. Is it possible to go backwards on the upgrade (downgrade) ?
I love using my hand helds, DCS & Legacy. Never used blue tooth and at home, WiFi can be a bit finicky at times, especially with multiple devices. Excuse me for sounding ignorant, but I really don't see the advantage to WiFi, for running trains. Is it an attempt to lure a younger, device savvy crowd? Once I had DCS up and running, I never ran conventionally again. I guess, maybe that's what will happen using WiFi. I doubt it with me.
I'm starting to feel like the guy who only runs conventionally because he doesn't want to invest in the new technology, or has to learn something too complicated to enjoy the benefits. Am I alone? Am I missing something?
Some of the previous replies to this thread mention that, you spend more time looking at your device, than watching your trains. That doesn't sound like fun.
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