Barry Broskowitz posted:That problem is a year or more away. Live for today.
God forbid that we should plan a bit ahead! 
I use the wifi app mostly but would not give up the handheld remote. I love to let the grandkids run the trains with the app, BUT, it sure is easy to keep my thumb on the emergency stop button on the handheld remote while watching them have fun... Just in case....
EddieZ
gunrunnerjohn posted
Sorry Bob, that's a non starter for me! The great sound and smoke effects really add to the experience, at least they do for me and most of the folks I run across.
Most 3-railers will probably agree, not so much for 2-trailers. At least on smoke.
Sound will come in time for BPRC, and by that time I'll be well ahead of the curve.
Barry Broskowitz posted:John,
That problem is a year or more away. Live for today.Doesn't work that well when the remotes are discontinued and not available, note the subject of the thread.
Some smart person will specialize in supporting/repairing the 10,000-plus-or-minus a couple, remotes already out there ;-) Someone is already ordering a lot of replacement wheels from MTH, if/when they can get hold of Midge, or get a call returned.
Next up, controlling the trains hands-free with brain waves.....
Kerrigan posted:Someone is already ordering a lot of replacement wheels from MTH, if/when they can get hold of Midge, or get a call returned.
Got that covered, got some on the last order. Thinking about getting a couple more... 
I figure they'll be like gold in about three-four years.
I haven't used my remote since the Premium App was released. Get the occasional glitch, but the big thing at AGHR is that the range of operation is dramatically improved using WiFi instead of 900MHz (the TIUs are located at various spots on a long building but the router is in the middle and reaches everywhere -- even the parking lot).
From my own experience, I think the remote and wifi premium app both stink. The only remote I bought worked for 1 night and then a wire came off the wheel and so I can't scroll between menus. I have to send it back to get it fixed.
I figured I'd wait for the premium app to come out and just buy that and the wifi unit instead - invest in the future. So I did and purchased the 9 pin to usb cable needed to fit my TIU (older working TIU - not Rev L but also not Rev G) and an extra MTH 750 brick to provide dedicated power to the TIU. Premium app won't recognize the TIU at the moment. I've read some of the fixes here online to no avail. I'm sure it's user error.
I have purchased the ebook everyone talks about - more investment. I have both the newest wifi version and the prior version. During my summer vacation I intend to read through the 250+ pages to confirm that I am a moron for not being able to figure out how to get all of these pieces working together.
Once I do that and get a repaired remote back from MTH (another few $$s spent), I'll be in a better position to say which I prefer. For now, I like the CAB2 that is running my Legacy engines the most. It worked right out of the box after following the 3 paragraphs of directions on page 6 of the owners manual.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Barry Broskowitz posted:That problem is a year or more away. Live for today.God forbid that we should plan a bit ahead!
Actually, Mike did plan ahead, just not for the outcome those of us (myself included) who like a physical remote's feel with buttons would like.
While he did not state at the time that the 2017-18 time frame would be the end for the DCS remote, he did state quite openly at least 1-1 1/2 years ago at the TCA Museum talk that with the "wonderful" new app capabilities, he would never invest in producing another physical remote again.
It might be a little more in the public eye now (there are probably a few more active Forum members reading this thread than were present at that presentation), but he hasn't been hiding it. He just now has a rough end time frame planned (assuming Barry's assessment of "a year or more away" is accurate, which I have no reason to question).
-Dave
Any company that has an ability to produce an APP the works well and can out perform the hardware handheld would be nuts to continue to produce the hardware. As much as I prefer the hardware remote, I also understand the business and engineering implications.
I also suspect Lionel will follow suit soon as well but I believe their APP will need to be reworked, LCS properly promoted, and the price point adjusted drastically.
Waddy posted:I don't agree with the idea that time and technology march on and old stuff doesn't need to be supported any longer. Anybody remember the now defunct Sega game systems? They didn't think supporting previous systems was important, either. The model train hobby is a fairly small group of people who run everything from pre-war to modern. Because the hobby has such a long history and much of the equipment still operable, it would seem to be in the best interests of the manufacturers to make their new systems as backward compatible as possible, and to offer as many options as possible.
To say that young people are so infatuated with their cell phones they won't do model trains unless they can be run from their phones is rather insulting to these same young people. The actual method of operation, I believe, has little to do with new people getting into this hobby. They either want model trains or they don't. Frankly, the cost of getting into and expanding on the initial investment is probably the biggest hurdle; model trains ain't cheap. BTW; I see lots of young people every weekend flying their drones, which have become immensely popular. And every person I see is using a handheld remote control to fly those things.
My Cable company and its supplier could just provide non working phones and replace its remotes!
MartyE posted:Any company that has an ability to produce an APP the works well and can out perform the hardware handheld would be nuts to continue to produce the hardware. As much as I prefer the hardware remote, I also understand the business and engineering implications.
You assume facts not in evidence, "can outperform" is in the eyes of the beholder, it certainly won't be true for many folks.
It's not hard to understand trying to avoid building one part of your system and letting the customer supply that part, you can certainly save money on production! However, just tossing the responsibility for that piece of your product over the wall into the vast unknown may end up not being as good a business decision as you are assuming. The marketplace will make that decision after the deed is done. 
I must say that I am not sure any of this really helps to get new people into the hobby. I know that the younger generation is more tech minded and your argument might be that would spur interest, but I believe if they are interested in technology, they will not funnel that into trains. There are too many other high tech things to get into and spend one's money on.
I also believe that you have just added another layer of complexity and cost. If I had not already been hooked from my original trains from the 50's, then enamored by the sounds and control enabled by the systems presented in the 90's, I would look at the cost of the trains themselves, then see the cost of an operating system, power source, a wifi unit, and then add to that a device not included with the manufacturer of the system and would balk at even beginning. Cost would be a major factor...all of that seems overwhelming to me. I have gotten into it because it was little steps at a time. If a hobby store sales person would be asked what I needed to start running these trains and he would go through and show me each item, my response would be "so, where are the drones with cameras? I think I will try one of those."
Rick
gunrunnerjohn posted:The marketplace will make that decision after the deed is done.
Or as in most cases, the manufacturer will make that decision for you. In MTH's case and to a large extent Lionel's, there is really no where else to go.
Just one question ..Is MTH really doing away with the DCS remote? How do you know for sure??
Gregg posted:Just one question ..Is MTH really doing away with the DCS remote? How do you know for sure??
Andy E from MTH stated this at the DCS Users Group Meeting at York. He said they would stop producing it most likely by years end.
John,
I can assure you that, from a responsiveness perspective, the DCS App absolutely performs better than does the DCS Remote, as regards speed of executing a command and wireless range of operation. The need to more closely "look at" the app's screen is, perhaps, offset by MTH's ability to make improvements to the app, to make it increasingly intuitive.
Further, the real opportunity will come in the future, as MTH will be able to expand DCS beyond the capabilities of the existing remote. Investment need only be made as regards enhancing the app's software as opposed to developing a new piece of remote hardware, along with the new software that it would require.
Regardless, I agree that the market will make the ultimate determination of the wisdom of MTH's decisions.
He said they would stop producing it most likely by years end.
To add to Marty's statement, it's anticipated that stocks of DCS Remotes from that production run would last approx. 1-2 years.
"I also suspect Lionel will follow suit soon as well but I believe their APP will need to be reworked, LCS properly promoted, and the price point adjusted drastically."
I see no evidence, as yet, that Lionel is abandoning a physical remote. Indeed, it seems quite the opposite. They have three currently in production. The LionChief and LionChief+ remotes which come with every set or separate sale loco in those product lines, and the Legacy remote for separate sale for those who want the advanced features and additional complexity (a small minority of their customers, I'd guess). All Lionel locos will have the option for Bluetooth control by a phone or tablet app.
Best of both worlds in my eyes. No need for wi-fi, additional equipment of any sort, or increased complexity if you don't want it. Couldn't ask for a better comparison of which marketing approach (these two extremes) will work best. Lionel's approach certainly is less expensive for the consumer who doesn't want the capabilities of wi-fi, layout control or other advanced features. This approach is also not expensive for Lionel if they can sell the universal remote with Bluetooth capacity for under $50.
Landsteiner posted:"I also suspect Lionel will follow suit soon as well but I believe their APP will need to be reworked, LCS properly promoted, and the price point adjusted drastically."
I see no evidence, as yet, that Lionel is abandoning a physical remote. Indeed, it seems quite the opposite. They have three currently in production. The LionChief and LionChief+ remotes which come with every set or separate sale loco in those product lines, and the Legacy remote for separate sale for those who want the advanced features and additional complexity (a small minority of their customers, I'd guess). All Lionel locos will have the option for Bluetooth control by a phone or tablet app.
I didn't say they are but IMO they eventually will. Why produce hardware if you can let the consumer purchase hardware, by the means in way of a smart device, in which Lionel does not have to produce at all and makes updates and fixes via an APP update.
Well it's sure is clear that MTH will abandon the hand held, to bad.
As retired tech guy I wanted to get away from ip addresses, routers, wifi, etc. and just enjoy model railroading. I guess I will keep the MTH engines I have and not buy any more. Will support manufactures that support the whole spectrum of the hobby. The Lionel Chief Plus looks interesting.
Hope I don't have to change scales !! Might have to go 2 rail and NCE or ...
I don't see the problem. If you want wifi it is available, if you want to use the handheld it's available and will be for the foreseeable future.
Looks like an opportunity for a guy or gal to start a business repairing handhelds.
Too much to worry about in real life to let this worry me.
Well, I like my DCS remote, but most can still operate with a standard transformer. However, in the future after all the DCS remotes become scarce and hard to find.....
If someone wants a remote to operate PS2-3 in command mode using a handheld remote, DCC might be an option. Then again, I think it requires direct current to operate that way.
Penn-Pacific posted:Well, I like my DCS remote, but most can still operate with a standard transformer. However, in the future after all the DCS remotes become scarce and hard to find.....
If someone wants a remote to operate PS2-3 in command mode using a handheld remote, DCC might be an option. Then again, I think it requires direct current to operate that way.
Yes I was thinking the same since PS3 is DCC.. so you could use your current NCE or Digitrax, MRC, Bachmann controller, if it would work. Aren't the configuration variables on DCS command the same as DCC? I wish everything 3 rail was DCC. That said, eventually the DCC companies will be going Tablet or phone too.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Kerrigan posted:Someone is already ordering a lot of replacement wheels from MTH, if/when they can get hold of Midge, or get a call returned.
Got that covered, got some on the last order. Thinking about getting a couple more...
Anyone have the MTH part number for the wheel assembly for the old remote?
Still like our decision to "keep it simple Superstar!" and keep on running the layout with the current transformers, remotes, TIU software release 4.3, and pass on the modern WiFi/Ipad/? world. My tech knowledge is at that DCS 4.3 level and at this point, no sense in straining the few brain cells left functioning at this age. ;-)
Enjoy it firing up and working right after sitting for a month at a time. Yes, yes, I do have to let the batteries charge up first.
It's interesting where this is all heading; train control via brain waves alone.
Has anyone yet experienced their WiFi operations being hijacked by someone else on their IPad? Is it possible to be hacked?
Kerrigan posted:Has anyone yet experienced their WiFi operations being hijacked by someone else on their IPad? Is it possible to be hacked?
Only if they have the network password can they hijack operations. No different than a remote jumping on board.
Hack it? Who would want to?
Ranger Rick posted:I must say that I am not sure any of this really helps to get new people into the hobby. I know that the younger generation is more tech minded and your argument might be that would spur interest, but I believe if they are interested in technology, they will not funnel that into trains. There are too many other high tech things to get into and spend one's money on.
I also believe that you have just added another layer of complexity and cost. If I had not already been hooked from my original trains from the 50's, then enamored by the sounds and control enabled by the systems presented in the 90's, I would look at the cost of the trains themselves, then see the cost of an operating system, power source, a wifi unit, and then add to that a device not included with the manufacturer of the system and would balk at even beginning. Cost would be a major factor...all of that seems overwhelming to me. I have gotten into it because it was little steps at a time. If a hobby store sales person would be asked what I needed to start running these trains and he would go through and show me each item, my response would be "so, where are the drones with cameras? I think I will try one of those."
Rick
We did get one of the three grandsons a little interesting in running the conventional trains with the transformer throttle or the DCS remote controller for the steam engine, but when I showed him the app screen for the IPad, he wasn't too interested in it.
MartyE posted:Kerrigan posted:Has anyone yet experienced their WiFi operations being hijacked by someone else on their IPad? Is it possible to be hacked?
Only if they have the network password can they hijack operations. No different than a remote jumping on board.
Hack it? Who would want to?
A "friend" who wants to mess with your head - - - :-)
Wifi is 2.4Ghz (for the most part) and frequency hopping (to avoid interference).
Well after finally getting my iPAD up and running(thank you everyone) and a little handle on the back of it, I still like my remote better. Still by far easier and more accurate. I do like the big screen of an iPAD Mini.
Still trying
Clem
I have installed the second wifi to the second tiu and my Beta site is now fully operational. As I am learning which way to swipe the screen, I am learning to like the iPhone more. The remote is still kept handy though. As that old saying goes " Try it You'll like it". So far I like the phone better as it's easier to hold. I did find another application for the top of the ZW though.
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At the end of the Model Train Day, I like the new MTH DCS, Wi-Fi APP. The best part for my train room it has brought my three adult children, back into the hobby. They are thirty something.
The android phone on the left has been turned off by the phone company and it still works with the Premium MTH DCS • DCS Wi-Fi and the phone on the right is my every day smart phone. Things in this hobby can be very expensive, but this system is a bargain.
The APP is $25.00 and the old smart phone was free. Wi-Fi Interface Unit is about $160.00. So I have been asking my friends and neighbors to give me their old phones. I usually do not do much in my train room during the summer, but with this new MTH - APP • I have been spending the evenings in the train room running trains with the MTH / DCS Wi-Fi.
The best tip from MTH Electric Trains is on the back cover of all their recent catalogs.
"Visit your local M.T.H. Retailer and run Pro-Sound 2.0 or 3.0 locomotives with your phone."
This is what is working for my Man Cave and Train Room, hooking up with my local hobby shop.
Gary
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First off, while I have a large house there's no place for a big layout, and I must admit my enthusiasm for trains has abated markedly in the last few years. I have some "carpet centrals" laid out which I enjoy running as do the grand kids when they visit. I never liked the DCS remote, with its soft key abbreviations and being technically-minded I bought the Android basic wi-fi app, which required buying the WIU. I've since upgraded to the premium app, and since unlike other software providers MTH doesn't offer much in the way of a help manual, sprang for Barry's book. From which I learned that if I wanted to control my Legacy engines I would need a TIU-Legacy cable.
At any rate, I'm underwhelmed so far, although I recognize its advantages and potential. [Update] By accident I noticed that under the engine settings there's a line that displays "edit engine softkey names" where the generic sound names can be edited to be more descriptive. I previously searched in the pdf Wi-Fi Companion to see if such a function was available but couldn't find any mention.
Does anyone out there still like the simplistic idea of just to grab a ZW handle and run your trains?
I still like the control of my trains using the handles of my Z4000 transformers. When you're moving trains into and out of sidings you can concentrate on train movement and not be distracted by having to look down at your phone or ipad. Signal strength is never an issue nor is having the latest version of the TIU. I use Tortoise switch machines controlled from a panel. How do you do that on a phone? What about operating accessories eg. the culvert set or log and coal loaders, let alone magnetic gantry cranes. I was told by Andy Edelman, the marketing head at MTH that the DCS remote will be discontinued because the "firmware" is out of date and it would be too costly to update it. Parts for the existing remotes will be available, especially those that deal with the rotary wheel. In summary, I guess I'm just a strong believer in the KISS Principle. (Keep it simple stupid)
MartyE posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:The marketplace will make that decision after the deed is done.
Or as in most cases, the manufacturer will make that decision for you. In MTH's case and to a large extent Lionel's, there is really no where else to go.
Seriously, I'm not into WiFi to control my layout. I and several I know like and enjoy the handheld remotes. If they go away and personally for me, no more new purchases, and when and if my last handheld remote dies, time for a new hobby. Yes, I'll save a bundle of money also.
Turbgine, one does not have to look at the remote after you've been using it awhile. It is much easier to move a train into and out of sidings with DCS than conventional, unless you clear the power dostrict or, as my pre-DCS layout, the track is cut into many toggle-switched blocks.
I despise the wifi, since one always has to look at the tablet and scroll through pages.
RJR posted:Turbgine, one does not have to look at the remote after you've been using it awhile. It is much easier to move a train into and out of sidings with DCS than conventional, unless you clear the power dostrict or, as my pre-DCS layout, the track is cut into many toggle-switched blocks.
I despise the wifi, since one always has to look at the tablet and scroll through pages.
I agree with this 100%. With DCS/TMCC/Legacy one has so much better low speed control for switching maneuvers than is possible with a transformer handle.
I've used the DCS app and really have no qualms about it. I think it's easier to use when adjusting settings than the remote, as I don't have to scroll through a bunch of menus or remember soft key acronyms.
To each is own though.
