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The idea came up to build a suitable replacement for the ERR Mini Commander that is no longer available.  This is a thread to kick around the concept and see if it makes sense, and what capabilities it would have.

Some basic starting thoughts, feel free to expand or call into question any of my assumptions.  Remember, this has to be somewhat limited so we can make it happen for a reasonable price.

  • Unit to be based on the Lionel R2LC/R4LC board with a small motherboard with additional components to add functionality.
  • An H-Bridge motor driver chip to be connected to the Forward and Reverse PWM outputs to drive a small motor with the throttle outputs.  I've tentatively identified the MPS MP6513 as a possible choice, .8A motor drive with full thermal and over-current protection.
  • A latching relay or circuit to allow persistent control by use of the coupler outputs.  I've tentatively identified the Kemet EE2 series 2-coil latching relay, it has 2A capability and is a DPDT part.
  • Capacitors across the lighting and smoke outputs to allow the use of LED's without load caps external to the board.  Perhaps a series resistor to allow direct drive of LED lights from the lighting outputs.
  • Connector pads for all the above functions on the board.

That's my starting grid, let's hear some ideas.

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That's the idea, but we're still working out the details.  I just want to kick around what we can do fairly easily to replace some of the functionality we had with the old ERR MC products.  Without adding a uP, I think stuff like the voltage control and timed activation that the MC had may be difficult.  It should be easy to do some simple stuff and accommodate some command control applications.  My sense is significant work went into the software of the MC-ACC, not sure I want to try to duplicate all of that at this juncture.  I'm trying to leverage the capability of the R2LC board and add some functionality so it can be used.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's the idea, but we're still working out the details.  I just want to kick around what we can do fairly easily to replace some of the functionality we had with the old ERR MC products.  Without adding a uP, I think stuff like the voltage control and timed activation that the MC had may be difficult.  It should be easy to do some simple stuff and accommodate some command control applications.  My sense is significant work went into the software of the MC-ACC, not sure I want to try to duplicate all of that at this juncture.  I'm trying to leverage the capability of the R2LC board and add some functionality so it can be used.

Sounds like a plan John!!

Blake Morris posted:
gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's the idea, but we're still working out the details.  I just want to kick around what we can do fairly easily to replace some of the functionality we had with the old ERR MC products.  Without adding a uP, I think stuff like the voltage control and timed activation that the MC had may be difficult.  It should be easy to do some simple stuff and accommodate some command control applications.  My sense is significant work went into the software of the MC-ACC, not sure I want to try to duplicate all of that at this juncture.  I'm trying to leverage the capability of the R2LC board and add some functionality so it can be used.

Sounds like a plan John!!

Just some simple remote control action.

John Graser posted:

Here would be my wish list:

  • 2 output for 2 couplers
  • 1 output for action (dump/throw /etc)
  • 2 outputs for lights (optional)

I figure that all the R2LC outputs will be available, so those are all accommodated.  Any functions we tie to some of the R2LC outputs will be in parallel with their primary function.  For instance, the couplers might be driving a latching relay, but you'll also be able to use them for couplers.

The one tricky part is having a timed output like the MC, that requires we decode the serial data and have soft configuration.  All possible, but beyond the scope of what I plan on starting with. 

One trick is keeping the connections to the board compact enough to get all the stuff on and off the board!

CBS072 posted:

Can you make it  work in a dummy engine for TMCC control, lights, couplers, sound and maybe smoke?

A F3B/F7B may only need smoke and sound?

FWIW, this is the application I'd be most interested in. I've never used the coupler function on the Mini Commanders I have installed but the ability to use one of the HC outputs for smoke has been important. 

Of course sound capability is kind of the Holy Grail; I've had to use ERR's little dummy engine board for that. Pardon my ignorance GRJ but I don't know whether the components you are thinking of using allow for sound.

ERR's Softset programing was very convenient but I could live without that.

CBS072 posted:

Can you make it  work in a dummy engine for TMCC control, lights, couplers, sound and maybe smoke?

A F3B/F7B may only need smoke and sound?

Sure, it'll have all the capabilities of the R2(4)LC, which includes all of those things.

Jan posted:

What are the capabilities of an R2LC/R4LC?  Is there a datasheet or specification available?

None that I'm aware of, but the capabilities are pretty well known.

superwarp1 posted:

I’ll second this.  Question, you won’t be stepping on anyone’s patent with this?

Nope, we're using the Lionel TMCC receiver.

Hancock52 posted:

FWIW, this is the application I'd be most interested in. I've never used the coupler function on the Mini Commanders I have installed but the ability to use one of the HC outputs for smoke has been important. 

Of course sound capability is kind of the Holy Grail; I've had to use ERR's little dummy engine board for that. Pardon my ignorance GRJ but I don't know whether the components you are thinking of using allow for sound.

ERR's Softset programing was very convenient but I could live without that.

Sound as far as this module is concerned it simply having the capability of feeding a standard sound board, that just takes power and serial data.  If a standard TMCC locomotive could do it, we should be able to support it, the R2(4)LC is where all that happens.  What I'm visualizing is simply a motor driver (H-Bridge) chip, a latching circuit of some kind to leverage the many times unused coupler outputs, and perhaps a couple components to allow direct LED attachment for the light outputs.

What I'm really fishing for here is if there is some other good ideas of things we might add that I haven't thought of.  Obviously, one of the requirements is that they don't take a lot of parts to do as we're also trying to keep the package pretty compact.

I've prototyped out a replacement for the Mini-Commander ACC or HC, using an Arduino module and an HC-12 radio receiver.

It doesn't receive TMCC signals directly; a single HC-12 connected to the command base broadcasts the TMCC commands to all the others. So it's not a drop-in replacement for the MC.  But it ran about $12 in parts; less if I hadn't used a commercial power supply module.

Of course, in addition to driving triacs like the MC, it could be programmed to drive servos or any other circuitry you wanted.  And you could program it for as complex behavior as you like... just need to think of some applications!

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Professor Chaos posted:

I've prototyped out a replacement for the Mini-Commander ACC or HC, using an Arduino module and an HC-12 radio receiver.

It doesn't receive TMCC signals directly; a single HC-12 connected to the command base broadcasts the TMCC commands to all the others. So it's not a drop-in replacement for the MC.  But it ran about $12 in parts; less if I hadn't used a commercial power supply module.

Of course, in addition to driving triacs like the MC, it could be programmed to drive servos or any other circuitry you wanted.  And you could program it for as complex behavior as you like... just need to think of some applications!

This has possibilities, I'm not wedded to the R2LC approach, it just seemed to be a simple means to an end. 

I think one key item is to try to keep it compact.  I know you can buy the Arduino processors as a separate part, so perhaps building a board around the chip would keep it to a reasonable size.  For most of our applications, you wouldn't need all the extra stuff that comes on these boards.  Of course, making a sandwich with something like an Arduino Nano might be an option as well.

The one downside of this approach is it requires a lot of up-front work to get started, we would have to decode the serial data and sort out all the timing issues of the TMCC protocol.  I've done a bit of that, but there's a lot more to do for this to be useful.

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