The future of Model Railroading?

     For starters from a manufacturer standpoint, there are far more HO modelers than O gauge, meaning the companies can justify new products and development because they will make the investment back. There's basically one operating system for HO, whereas in 3-rail we have two, with no chance that Lionel or MTH is going to surrender their profits to the other company to have one single operating system.

 

     Secondly, there's a mindset difference between the participants in dfferent scales. HO has always been more prototypical and more a "modeling" scale. The Railroad Model Craftsman and Model Railroader magazines every issue have articles on kitbashing, scratchbuilding, repainting, etc. despite the much broader selection of available products.

 

The 3-rail modelers expect their products ready made, ready to run. If something hasn't been made, instead of doing it themselves, they grumble and complain about why something hasn't been made. This is reflected in the amount of detail parts and decals still available in HO and N scales, that ARE NOT available in O scale. There are 3-railers, like myself, who do this sort of thing, but obviously not enough.

 

When I got back into the hobby some 25 years ago, the HO guys were the first to comment how they liked my trains. I'd ask why and many times was told "you're the very first Lionel guy we've ever seen doing scratchbuilding, kitbashing, and repainting." 25 years ago repainting Lionel trains was something of a criminal offense.

 

 

 

     Thirdly, I don't know how many times an adult HO modeler has said he got his start with a Lionel, Marx or American Flyer train set. As the 3-rail hobby has grown towards mimicing the prototypical aspects that have always been in the HO hobby, it has become far more costly. These new HO trains are expensive too. But there's a sticker shock aspect when it comes to bringing new people into the hobby.

 

Far too many times, I've read grumbling comments on the train forums how the emphasis on starter sets and lower cost products will deprive the 3-rail scale enthusiasts of new products, which is not only inaccurate, but short-sighted.

 

The new low cost control system Lionel has introduced in their starter sets shouldn't be overlooked as a new forward development. I think this will go a long way towards helping to introduce youngsters to the hobby. So often, Lionel gets overly criticized for their licensed products, their retailing and marketing and even their TV appearance on the NBC Today show. Everything they do is helping to expand their market base, which makes it more possible to make some of the high end products that do not sell in same quantites.

 

These expensive high end HO products are not going to children (as with high end 3-rail products): their going to adults who can justify the expense. I know of very few instances where children got their start in the hobby with a HO set (though there was Tyco with the Lionel inspired products). Most get their start with a Lionel set. So their needs to be a balance between the technology and the cost factor to not scare people away anymore than already happens.

 

I personally don't conern myself with the technology. I don't use a digital command system and am quite content with that. I run trains for fun, not frustration. And for me, repainting, kitbashing and scratchbuilding is also part of the fun.

I left HO because of the O scale sounds systems were way ahead of HO. DCC was just being standardized but still a expensive up grade. Now it sounds like HO is leading the path again.

 

I've been whining for years that O gauge especially should be taking advantage of RC, brushless motor and lipo technology.  No reason the train batteries couldn't be re-charged through the rails either.

 

Pete

Pete, thought about that every time I flew my RC planes. Don

Yep.  If the cost can eventually go low enough to be offered in starter sets, it will add lots of play value.  If the loco video and control can work with a variety of platforms: i-devices, android, surface, etc., kids will spend more time with the trains before they get bored.  

 

Perhaps the ultimate for Lionel would combine the LionChief locos with a "engineers" camera, with control and video display on a variety of mobile devices.  I am thinking the LionChief as a low-cost way to get multiple trains on the same track.

 

Of course, with kids and LionChief engineer video, who could resist having two trains crash in a head-on collision?   But after that fun gets old, having multiple trains running on a layout would be fun in other ways.   Perhaps multi-player games could be devised to work our railroad problems, or to compete in moving the goods in a race against the clock and competing engineers, dodging into sidings and planning routes on a shared layout.

 

Lots of potential that might help with the next generation.

Nostalgia is what will keep this hobby going, not the digital world.

 

Kids, by and large, are interested in trains (if they are interested at all) for a finite amount of childhood time that largely dissipates or disappears altogether in their teen years, just as it did for most of us. 

 

All the whiz-bang electronics and digital stuff in the world is NOT going to turn them into hobbyists or devoted model railroaders.  If/when they do return to the hobby of model railroading later in life, it will not be because they remember the digital "antiques" of today (that stuff will all be gone by then).  Rather, it will be because they remember trains being a part of their own holiday tradition and/or because they are just fascinated by the history and heritage of real and/or model railroading.

Allen, nostalgia may be a motivation in the hobby for many, but not for me and for everyone. 

 

If adding some cool technology as a more fun way to interface with trains brings a small fraction of the young folks into the hobby, then I figure the hobby is better off in the long run. 

 

More play value = more time with the trains = more likely to stay with trains as a hobby as they get older.

Well said, Allan.

 

Rusty

I have no interest in the high tech controls for my trains. A Sr System Analyst for a top five bank for 30 yeas I am tired of tech. My hobby is my escape. But like every consumer item ever made there will be those that have to have the most tech laden gadget they make.....to those....good luck! I'll pass.......

No matter how seductive the brand new latest technology may continue to be, the future of toy/model trains surely won't happen because of today's look alike diesel locomotives pulling unit trains of look alike freight cars carrying containers of goods made everywhere in the world but here.

 

If there even is a future for us model railroaders, it will be due to a passion for history and remembrance of a time when a whole town turned out for the arrival of the once a day train, because it was the only immediate link to the "outside" world, bringing the mail, freight, farm implements and, most importantly, people - relatives and friends.

 

Pete

 

 

I think it was Phillip Hastings upon the expiration of steam said that without it, train watching was as enjoyable as looking at a conveyor belt and the huge variety of roads has shrunk to less than a handful of monolithic Class One roads..overly remote gizmos and  electronics which are really a adjunct (to the meat and potatoes of rolling stock) will not turn the tide for a new generation to latch onto..The kids I see love what we love, a sort of mystique that refuses to be defined. The more complex this hobby becomes the more abstract it is. The bottom line for the big three is selling add on gimmicks and for most, if they went away tomorrow..guess what?..We would still be running trains. 

This is not the first time the "future of model railroading" has arrived...

 

The Future from 1963:

Rusty

I run my trains the old fashioned way, as my Dad taught me to in 1953, and I will continue to until they pry my cold, dead fingers off the transformer power level!

Crazy remark there Lee, but I love it.

Chances are, Lee, that's also how--with some modifications resulting from modernization--folks will be enjoying this hobby 35 or more years from now, so it's certainly not a bad idea to be going that route today or in the future.

 

Just think about it:  All of the electronic gadgets we play with today will be w-a-y outmoded even a few years from now, and you can be quite sure that replacement gizmos won't be available for repairs (many aren't even available now).  And it's entirely unreasonable, in my view,  to assume that some secondary market will pop-up to provide those failing boards, etc.  Not much profit potential in that.

 

No, in the distant future, once all the novelty of a digital world of toy trains wears off, the true hobbyists will be likely be enjoying the hobby for the way it affords a relaxing and creative way of escaping from the work-a-day world…pretty much as it is for many of us today.  As I noted earlier, to the extent this hobby is perpetuated (and it will be perpetuated to some degree, although not at the levels seen today) the foundation will be nostalgia in some form or another, combined with individual attempts to just put aside the real world for a while and engage in some imaginative relaxation while maintaining a connection with an important part of the nation's history.

 

I won't be around to see it, but I'm pretty confident that's the course we're on.

 

 

Lee,

I think that I am a member of that same Fraternity.

Even though I am 67 now, not only do I like the digital revolution I can't wait for more. The more features they can stuff into our trains the better IMO. 

 

The new Lionel big boy will be just the beginning, can I afford it? I just don't know at this point But it will be incredible. 

To think that making toy trains that can be controlled from an I-whatever or computer will bring new young blood into the hobby is flawed. It's the modern day equivalent of "Let's paint it pink and girls will want trains too!" If a kid thinks trains are stupid or lame no amount of electronic gizmo, whiz bang will bring them into the fold. It's been stated before, kids already like trains we don't need to gizmo them up to make them like them. Kids like computers and gaming and tweeting and whatever also so adding that to the trains just makes them more prone to problems which will kill a budding enthusiast faster than anything else. Just look at how many different control systems are already out there and the various systems like PS1, 2 and 3 now over the last few years and the vaoious problems and work arounds that we've come up with but the venerable ZWs, KWs and LWs continue to power many layouts today 30-50 or more years later. And when they do break they can usually be fixed in the home work shop, not so with most of the electronic controls. If you like the new stuff great but like Lee and Charlie said there is a fraternity of us who like it old school because it works.

In fact I think we need a Cold Dead Fingers Fraternity for us transformer guys!

 

Jerry

I agree and disagree with you all at the same time. The kids that are growing up now are growing up with technology in their hands. The technology will be part of the nostalgia. I can't imagine anyone wanting to go back to being tied to a control panel and block wiring. The reality is that the technology has simplified how many things are done in our hobby. Also the technology does add play value to these trains. I'm a huge fan of the LionChief system because it blends the technology with a relatively simple train set all in one shot. 

 

It's also funny that there is so much certainty that there will not be replacement boards and fixes for the technology that is available now. Everyone seems to think they're going to be an endless supply of postwar and prewar parts. Has anyone ever thought about that supply of parts going away? When's the last time anyone has recast standard gauge wheel sets? It's been awhile and you don't see anyone jumping into fill that space or the reproduction of Postwar parts for that matter. If there is a demand it will be filled and that goes for the boards in these trains. The technology employed is NOT rocket science and I'm sure there are going to be plenty of savy electrical engineers who could create replacement boards if the demand warrants it.

 

It's amazing to me that so many people are convinced they have any idea what kids today will like now or in the future when many of their ideals are based on what THEY liked as a child. I'm not even convinced I know what the next generation will like and I'm 29. 

 

Bottom line, the technology is a good thing, it's here to stay, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. 

Based on the amount of NYC passenger cars in 2 and 4 packs that train stores and sites are carrying in their inventory, I would say the future looks bleak.

Seriously, how close are we to Christmas?

 

 

I like this post.

 

However I believe that technology can be a big part in the hobby. Young people of today will have different memories and events of significance to draw from...

 

You're quite right, of course. Technological developments are here to stay for sure.  But let's see how the hobby does with all the current focus on technological innovation.

 

The Good Lord willing, I'll still be around in, say, ten years.  You're 29, so you'll just be hitting your prime at 39.  Let's check back then and see how things have "evolved." 

FWIW, I can see some extra play value in a kind of "EOB" video system - as it is I tape a mini HD video camera to a steam engine tender to get footage of the track level view around my layout and find it highly entertaining, as do the people I inflict the edited recordings on!

 

But I'd be far more interested in adding more realistic sound and light features such as you can get on HO models to three rail O gauge. I don't understand why three rail O gauge sound and light control features are so far behind what you can get in DCC - I assume it's because the electronics used by Lionel and MTH are pretty antiquated and just don't have the memory for it but that's just a guess.

 

My own particular hobby horse is, why can't Lionel adapt the sound system offered in their old HO Veranda Turbine (which is still available in a QSI board) to a three rail O scale version? The difference between their HO and O models' sounds is vast.

Amen Brother!

 

 I had a guy tell me on a model train forum a few years ago that if you didn't have the money to buy the latest and greatest trains you shouldn't be in the hobby. Part of the postwar attraction for me is price. I can go to a train show and come home with a loco and some cars for $40 or less, plus a little elbow grease and have a nice train to run. Of course the loco was a Marx, but the cars were Lionels. Once the serviceable, simple to fix, stuff is gone a lot off folks will never be able to play in a rich man's hobby like model trains.

The hobby of three rail trains is not only for the Rich. You can spend as much you want or spend very little. How ever you do, the ultimate end is to have fun. 

 

Handyandy,

 

the guy that told you that if you didn't have the money and you shouldn't be in the hobby is a number one condescending jerk. Don't pay any attention to those types of guys, their idiots. 

 

I like the modern scale digital trains and those are the items I buy. I buy used most of the time, sell items to upgrade my trains and trade when the option comes up. 

 

Post war does nothing for me but if that is what you like then go for it, it's all about the trains and having fun. 

I've also seen some info on this system via European sources.  In general, it seem the technology from European companies is a step ahead of what we have here, especially when it comes to the user interfaces of DCC systems.  Also, don't forget that Marklin HO scale trains have their own proprietary command control system, which is also quite advanced and can be set up to support ipads as remotes.  

 

That said, our command control systems in O gauge are more advanced and user friendly than the typical DCC systems.  So, I would not be suprised to see ipads being used in 3 rail O before their arrival in the HO world in the US.  

I think the hobby will be quite different in 30 years, and much of what happens will be determined by the manufacturers who survive and the market share they command. A company such as MTH might take the hobby in one direction, a company like Atlas might do something totally different.

 

Jeff C

Quite true - at least according to my observations.  While it's true that technology will not make teens and young adults become interested in model railroading, once they get that interest they tend to demand technology, not because the technology is "cool", but because it allows them to more closely simulate real railroad operations.  After all, what's closer to the experience of operating a real train: operating with block wiring and throtles, or operating with command control?  Of course, we all know the answer - an engineer runs his train, not the track.  And what about playing the role of dispatcher?  Once again, controling interlockings and signals is more effective with a command control system.  Finally, not everyone likes sound in their engines, but adding realistic sound is not a gimmick, it's another dimension of modeling.  I know people who go out of the way to get the correct horn sound set for their engine with the same passion a rivet counter would modify details on a locomotive.  

So, technology won't likely bring young people into our hobby, but for the young people already interested in trains it will be necessary to retain their interest, because they will demand the highest technology. 

 

Ah technology. Who plays with an Atari, Apple IIe or IBM PCjr? But it's not the technology in the trains that we play with, it's the trains. The technology only makes it more fun, easier to use or provides us with additional benefits. As to being able to purchase trains and work on them, many on this Forum can purchase a postwar train or a more modern train and upgrade electronics. PS2, PS3 and ERR allow this to happen. The comment that only postwar trains can be "fixed" is simply incorrect. Postwar trains are easier to fix. So is a 1950's or 60's car. Try to change spark plugs or work on points (long ago replaced by electronics) on a modern car. But our fun comes from the car itself. The electronics just make it work better.

 

In your prime at 39?  I really don't agree Allan. At that point, you are 20 years past your physical prime. As to ability to enjoy life, at 39 I was working my b*tt off, with much less leisure time, fewer vacations, and much less disposable income than I have now. Quite frankly, this is a great time. I think that most of the Forumites I meet are pretty positive people. There are, of course, exceptions.

 

I know there are people who will disagree with me and complain about where they are in life. For the people with health issues, I feel for them. My brother and a number of friends have real health issues. For those with financial issues, I would advise them to enjoy what they can. Don't be jealous of someone who can purchase more than you. That doesn't mean they are happier. I guess it just depends on your outlook and whether you believe the glass is half empty or half full.

 

Gerry

Let's face facts here:  Teens and young adults are no different today than they were 50 or more years ago…probably even less so.  Very few are going to be interested in model railroading as a hobby until much later in life, as has most always been the case.  Their interests lie elsewhere, either through the natural course of events (growing up) or because of other demands placed on their time, attention, and resources.  Usually it's a combination of both.

 

People really need to get over this preoccupation (among some, at least) of attracting young people to the hobby.  That simply is not going to happen to any significant degree.  Young people today, as always, face far too many real-world demands for their time and attention; far more, in fact, than most any of us in this hobby faced in our own younger years (Gerry, in his post above, pretty much makes the case for me even while disagreeing with me).  Just making it in this world--the real world--poses enormous challenges for many if not most young people, and even though they are enamored by the technology that surrounds them--slaves to it in many ways--that is not going to be nearly enough to attract them to the hobby of model railroading as a serious and lasting leisure time pursuit.  "Kids" of all ages from 3 to 103 enjoy watching trains, but getting them involved in trains as a lasting hobby is quite a different thing.  And you can be quite sure that all the technology in the world is not going to be what attracts and HOLDS those potential future participants.

Everyone is always worrying about tomorrow, let tomorrow take care of itself and just enjoy today. Some people worry about tomorrow so much they forget about today.  Enjoy your hobby, the forum and your life.  The future of anything is out of our control.  LIFE IS A TRAIN ENJOY THE RIDE ! 

 

Absolutely correct. Toy trains are not the toy of choice for the current generation. Most likely every generation of children have "their toys". We are simply the adult versions of children who played with toy trains when they were popular. There are of course some additions. But the additions are nowhere near the number of people who had toy trains in the 50's and don't even know that they exist today. Clearly a declining population. Will the last person out please turn off the lights.

 

Gerry

 

I'm probably the only person who went to TMCC only to have constant lighting in my passenger cars. Other than that, "remote" = expensive trains subject to breakdown, IMO. Meanwhile, my postwar trains, used mainly at Christmas, just keep chugging along.

Jim is correct:  Stop worrying about a future you can't control.  Savor each day you are given, and have what fun with your hobby that you possibly can with what you have or can get.

 

Gerry is also correct:  In the U.S. at least, there's not enough real-world railroading or toy trains around to attract and hold future generations of model railroaders.  That's simply the reality of the situation.  The best we can hope for--today--is (1) that we can begin a family tradition of toy trains of our own ('tis the season), (2) that we can expose others today to the fun and creativity of our hobby, and (3) that the memories thus created take hold on at least a few of those so exposed to perpetuate our hobby to future generations.  All of those involve "today" actions that each of us can be a part of.

Here's a new Barbie make up mirror toy that replaces a simple mirror with an Ipad. If you don't have an Ipad the toy is useless. The toy digitally places the makeup on the girls face. The child in my opinion is deprived of the hands on feel and fun of putting make up on. Let's see how successful this item is by this time next year for a possible answer to the scenario discussed.

http://www.amazon.com/Mattel-Y2748-Barbie-Digital-Makeover/dp/B00CKH9I1I/ref=sr_1_1/181-2752444-5418060?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1384609943&sr=1-1&keywords=ipad

That Barbie makeup mirror toy is pretty cool. Especially when you consider that neither myself or my wife will let our daughter anywhere near makeup.
I still won't buy any such toy for my daughter but it is pretty cool.

Yep, it sure is cool to turn youngsters into mindless, button-pushing little robots who don't learn things (good and bad) for themselves and who aren't required to exercise any individual creativity.  

 

But at least it will sell more iPads!  

Hands on reality seems to be old fashioned, where we need an intermediary to do things ui8888in the place of imagination, even to the point where learning hands on skills is looked down upon, and that does not bode well in my book..as if we will all become voyeurs of  what is in front of our faces..we need a touch pad to contact "reality"..Allan's comment just reinforces my view of modern railroading as plain vanilla compared to the flavors of yesterday and again, it has the romance of a conveyor belt. Carpentry, electrical skills, math, painting etc are all done for kids via a synthetic reality and environment thats tethered to pixels.The future of model railroading?..I think not.If it is, it will no longer be model railroading as the modeling will go out the window and be taken over by software engineers .if it has not already. Planned obsolescence in model train controls..? Give me a break..we seem to have more gimmicks and their variety than we have models of prototypes..ugh.

 

Rusty