The KC Lines "West Bottoms" In S Scale

Hi All!

I had a couple requests to post some pics and info about my KC Lines West Bottoms layout that I'm slooowly building in S scale. I'm more than happy to oblige. Please ovelook the poor quality of the pics (my model photography skills are not good), and also, the repost nature of them. I'm trying to get all the bits of info I have scattered in various threads at these forums gathered in one thread to talk/discuss/share. I hope others can find things to enjoy within, but mainly, I think it helps motivate to share and receive encouragement from other modelers. That so... here we go!

How It Came To Be:

Ever since discovering mountain railroading in November of '74 aboard a Frisco freight from Van Buren, AR to Winslow, AR and return, I was a mountain railroad modeler. All my layouts after The Trip were set in the Ozarks, with two of them being based on the Frisco's Fort Smith Subdivision.

A move in 1998 predicated dismantling my final Frisco FS Sub layout of 11 years. My final HO layout was a tri-level with about 200' of mainline w/hidden staging loops. Modeled from Ft. Smith to Fayette Jct, with the north loop representing points north, and the south loops representing the Arthur Sub. The entire layout was housed within a 24' travel trailer modified for layout use.

Once settled into our new home, my only immediately available space was in my combination hobby/computer room, a paltry 9' or so by 12'. Not much.

I tried a couple of things in this room. First was Sn3. I quickly saw there was no way to model mountains and expanse in such a small area. Not Colorado, not the Ozarks with HO diesels, nothging. Nope, mountains, expanse, and 9' x 12' just doesn't cut it. I had to leave that behind and search for a new theme.

I then had the idea to go to O 3 rail, and simply have fun... deciding to create somewhat of a "Kansas City" look. The thinking was that being O 3 rail (since they're "toys"), it didn't HAVE to be realistic. Plus, density was expected in a "city scape" layout. To boot, there was to be a bit of industrial switching to go along with the double track roundy-loop mains. This idea began to shape up and worked "okay", until I grew tired of the compromised look of the traditional 3 rail trains.

So, I tried to convert it to O 3 rail "Hi Rail", that is, scale sized equipment... with semi-realistic scenery. Purchased some items and tried it: No way. Once I started going with trains that were more properly proportioned... I wasn't happy with the tall rail height, the "less than Kato" performance of the engines, and the killer: That third rail running down the center of the track. Serious stagnation resulted. Too many years of "serious" scale modeling, me thinks.

At some unknown point in time a few years ago, I had the brain storm to seriously look at S scale. This I did, purchasing a state-of-the-art engine (an S Helper Service Frisco SW9), a couple of run-of-the mill boxcars, and some flex track.

Wow! It was more than I hoped for! The size was perfect, the SHS SW ran BETTER than my HO Kato (and comparable HO stuff), and I could simulate 110 lb rail and 90 lb rail using code 100 and code 83 track and switches.

By converting to S scale, I could have a NICE little switching layout that hearkened to my childhood memories and impressions of the West Bottoms area of Kansas City. By elaborating on the KC Lines theme, my layout could play host to ANY railroad in KC during the early-mid 60's that I wanted to tackle.

My concept was to model a small industrial yard in the West Bottoms that was part of a larger KC area railroad. This primary railroad would switch customers on their tracks in the modeled portion of the West Bottoms area, while other KC railroads could come onstage and set-out/pick-up into, and out of, the small yard of the host railroad via transfer runs/etc. Using this scenario, the primary railroad could be the Frisco or Missouri Pacific or Kansas City Terminal or... whatever I wanted! The other roads would be used for the transfers. Any of, or all, equipment could be utilized at any given operating session! Perfect for a guy like me that has a hard time modeling only ONE railroad.

At this point, I'm leaning toward my primary railroad being my own Kansas City & Gulf proto-lanced theme that I concocted during the final year or so of my HO tri-level layout mentioned above. Doing this would allow me to avail myself of the available S scale models without heavy kitbashing or other time consuming projects. I theorized this would allow me to get into business quicker than kitbashing to specific prototype models. Good plan, but thus far I'm enjoying creating/obtaining models of the prototype KC roads!

Okay, enough rhetoric, let's get to a few pictures.

First up, is a close view of my 12th St Yard.



I created the backdrops with photos that I took in the actual West Bottoms area then photoshopped them, and this is the result. Given the 24" benchwork depth, and intensity of track, I figure I will need to lean heavily upon the backdrop to convey the urban industrial look, as well as "expanse". So far, so good.

Next up is an overall view of the incomplete 12th St. Yard scene.



I want to point out that I gained about 33%-35% more layout by switching to S SCALE from O 3 RAIL. I like the train-to-scenery ratio MUCH better, and the feeling of "expanse" that I also gained via a switch to S scale. (Plus, I still get BIG TRAINS to boot!)

Next picture is of an in-process kit detailing project I have on the workbench. This is American Models Baldwin S-12 model. It runs nice, but I felt the details were a bit "coarse" out of the box, so I set in to fabricate scale sized hand rails etc. Into this will eventually go a Soundtraxx Tsunami DCC decoder w/Baldwin sound. (You have GOT to hear the Baldwin sounds at the Soundtraxx website!!) This S-12 will either become a KC&G unit, or a Mop S-12 in Jenks Blue.



Below is a comparison of the in-process detail project alongside an out of the box AM Baldwin S-12 to illustrate some of the modifications I'm making:



Next will be a few pics of my Frisco #306 SW. This is an SHS product that has simply been painted/decaled/weathered to reflect the prototype engine. All the details and other stuff is pure SHS. This one also has DCC w/Tsunami sound. (All my engines will be sound equipped.)







I mentioned my proto-lanced KC&G theme as possibly being used as my "primary road". I have yet to get any S scale equipment into KC&G paint, but for the sake of illustration, here is an HO KC&G switcher I modeled over a decade ago that helps to visualize what I'm contemplating:



Lastly, below you will find a trackplan for you to puruse. As with all trackplans, it is a work in progress, and the final product will not be as drawn. (Note: I don't know how to add an attachment of the full sized track plan to avoid the default resizing this forum software imposses.)



Well... that's about it for now! Long ways to go on the layout and equipment... and there have been many periods of inactivity... but overall I think I've found a great way to enjoy a variety of my favorite roads in an acceptably plausible setting... all within a small room! I will be revisiting this thread and updating/etc over time as progress is made, especially if some of you should find it interesting and questions are asked. Sharing and comments helps to motivate!

Have fun!

Andre
Original Post
Ginsaw:

If you've made the leap from that other thread, here's some of my comments to your post:

Yup, Mike Condren's site is a gold mine. Mike and I first became acquainted in '70, I think. We've been life-long friends ever since. He was an enthusiast operator with me on my Frisco-based HO tri-level layout I had back in the late 80's almost through the 90's. It's been a year or so since I've seen him, but we will stay in touch as the months go by.

That Frisco yard in Memphis: Yes, I've seen that before and YES, I too, was wow'd by it! I love the look of that era, and model it in my V scale medium (when I'm in the V scale mood.)

Thanks for the kind words, I will try to take some acceptable pics of my Frisco DS-4-4-1000 project and post here "soon".

Andre
Rusty:

Gotta' remember that once I discovered what real trains did (countless decades ago Smile ), and that much of a railroad's "reason for being" could be replicated on a layout: Operation became one of the primary reasons I dabble with model trains. (I like the challenges of switching.) So, it comes as no surprise that any layout I design has SOME form of operation designed-in. As mentioned, the beauty (to me) of urban industrial switching is that DENSITY is almost required. Thus, it is FAR easier to cram a bunch in a small space than it is to reflect the openess of, say in your case, the Kansas prairie. Nature of the urban beast, I reckon'.

John:

Thank you kindly! In the past, I had a lot of fun with the KC&G theme, and though it will not play the major role it played there at the last on my HO tri-level layout, I look forward to the flexibilty of its roster and seeing it come to life in S scale.

HOWEVER... a KC&G project is NOT on my workbench at this time. Smile

Nope, I'm still slicing and dicing an AM S-12 into a DS-4-4-1000 to become Frisco's #241. I'm about finished with the body modifications. Alas, though, I just discovered I'm out of 400 grit sandpaper... so I won't be able to finish my sanding procedure (320 grit to remove unwanted cast-on detail, followed by 400 grit, followed by 600 grit) on my body modifications until I pick some up tomorrow while out and about. No biggie.

Here's a couple of progress pics I took a couple of hours ago. First up is a close up.



And here's a pic with an S-12 project for comparison in regards to the body modifications needed to turn an S-12 into a DS-4-4-1000.



Very soon it will be time to start drilling holes, adding detail parts, and fabricating handrails.

Andre
Andre, I'm using your invite for the transfer ticket from over at the 3R board...

I've never met Mike, but his website is my favorite for anything railroad or old Memphis related. The history there alone is priceless. And, one of these days, I'm thinking of donating a couple rare historical documents, one Cotton Belt, the other Rock Island.

My interest in railroading goes way back too and is built around the roadnames of the Mid-South. I've discussed it here before. I also once lived in Pine Bluff and you can probably guess what I was close to there.

For layouts, I had one as a child, a little 027. The second and more recent occupies of spare bedroom and is 10 x 11. I call that medium size. One like that has its limits, as you found out. Basically it's three loops with 088 on the outside and some stub yards (including a Ross four-way) and a one-way reversing loop (I really wanted a double reverse but no room for it on a medium layout that I could see). So, it's mainly a matter of straight ahead running and just showing off what trains I have.

The rest of the layout is a few MTH and old Lionel buildings and a few scratchbuilds, including a radio tower. In lighting, the star of the show is a Miller IC illuminated sign. And I have more than once suggested they do a Frisco sign. There's one on Mike's website. Maybe you know it too. It would be rather nice, and although I remember seeing it, I can't recall the colors or how it changed colors.

Anyway, in model railroading, I went and collected a lot of Lionel big steam including the articulateds. But, what has happened, is that I found I have tired of those and have gravitated to liking only the local roadnames. So I'm selling off the big "national" interest items. And believe it or not, I won't really miss them (Challenger, Veranda Turbine, Class A, Allegheny, Mohawk, Berk etc etc). They're beautiful, but they don't really fit in with what I've learned I care for more.

So, at the moment I'm running three freights, led by Rock Island GP35s, Cotton Belt GP60s and an IC GP9. I'm also looking at an Atlas Frisco switcher which has recently been hard at work. These are more or less what I used to see downtown crossing the IC Junction on Broadway.

For me, it's all about the local roadnames and their history...
Hi Ginsaw!

Glad you made the hyper-jump to this S scale world!

Mike is so smart it's scary. (He's a retired Chemist Professor.) Knows things Frisco inside and out. He's a hoot.

As for donating the historical documents... scans would suffice? That way you retain your originals?

Looks like we're on the same page in regards to what we enjoy replicating: Regional roads of our favorite memories.

Also on the same page with being saddled with a similar layout space. Of course, I chickened-out and went with slightly smaller trains to operationally increase the size of my "space".

Miniature trains are lots of things to different folks. Some of us like to switch, others like to watch'em run... all kinds. No "correct" way of enjoying them.

Miller makes some cool signs. One that would really go well with my KC West Bottoms theme would be the Western Auto "arrow" sign. There was one in reasonably close proximity to the West Bottoms area.

Reallocating your funds tied up in models your refining preferences have left behind into models that are more satisfying will pay off in enjoyment, if not in capital gain!

Ahh... a freight led by Rock Island 35's. Nice. They were in KC, too. Interesting road. (BTW, the IC eventually made it into KC via the GM&O/IC merger, but that is after my era of interest.) Local history, local roadnames. Yup. Same here.

Amazing how these silly little models can evoke such good memories, isn't it?

Andre
Andre, take a look at the Frisco sign here - http://condrenrails.com/MRP/Me...Frisco-Yale-Yard.htm. It's several pics down and used to stand over Yale Yard in South Memphis. You could see it from the Airways Blvd. viaduct over the yard (the yard's still there). Have you seen any like that and do you know how the colors should light up or if it says something besides just Frisco? I think the sign maybe had the ability to also say "Southeast - Southwest" or "Ship It On The Frisco". I was going to try again to interest Miller in it. I would definitely buy one. If it turned out anywhere near as well as the IC sign, it'd be a winner.

I like the Western Auto sign too. We also had one in Memphis.

Do you by any chance attend the annual Cotton Belt Railroadiana event in Pine Bluff? I have been going, with combining a trip to Hot Springs for the season ending high stakes races. It's the first weekend in April each year. We do the railroad show on Sat, then over to the Arlington Hotel that night for the parties and the races on Sun.

Btw, your KC&G I'll bet was taken from the KCS predecessor Kansas City, Pittsburg & Gulf. An excellent choice. Back when I was considering names for my layout, I thought seriously about Gulf & Southern. No reason at all except it was railroad sounding. But, I'm content to let it be a resemblance to all the roads in general I have experienced up close over the years - Southern, GM&O, IC, MoPac, SSW, SL-SW, RI, NC&SL and L&N.

With the Southern I can honestly say they even named a passenger station after an ancestor. And cab rides on the Tennessean in the '50s were pretty neat for a little kid.
Since we're talking Frisco the link below shows numerous Frisco photos all through Eastern and Southern Missouri.

The ones at Lindenwood Yard, especially looking down at the diesel house bring back a lot of memories. These are taken from Fyler bridge which was an old rickety bridge torn down sometime in the late 60's I believe (family moved from St. Louis to the KC area in 1961). You can see the bridge in some of the ground level photos. Man would it shake when the buses rolled over it.

In the late 50's I would spend many hours watching train movements below it and peering down into the engine house especially at dusk when the lights were on. At 10-11 years old I wasn't allowed out much past dusk or had to be in my own immediate neighborhood. What great sights, sounds and smells.

http://www.westernrailimages.c...nc4S#465981208_Xq68F

I almost changed modeling roads from the UP to Frisco after discovering this website but alas the UP in the 40's and 50's is my 1st love.

Enjoy.

Butch
Hi Ginsaw:

It appears the sign has clear neon "Ship IT on the Frisco" to illuminate at night, alternating between the large illuminated "FRISCO". I do not recall seeing anything like that in KC... but perhaps there was one there I didn't know about?

Alas, I don't get out much in regards to swap meets/etc. I tend to crash on the weekends and either stay home and tinker with projects, or the wife and I head off on a scooter adventure (weather dependant), either on our dirt bikes or our road bike. Then there's typically church on Sunday's followed by bi-weekly trips to NW AR to take the wife to spend time with her aging parents. Kind of pinched for "excursion" time at this point in our lives.

Actually, my fictional "history" has the KC&G trying to race the KCP&G to the Gulf. My KC&G lost. Thus, they had to settle for a more laborious traversing of the Ozark and Ouachita mountains in Arkansas. To this day, the KC&G folk refer to the KCS as "that OTHER KC line". Smile

Butch:

Oh my lands! What a FABULOUS find that site is! I just spent one hour of my life viewing pics there of some of my roads of interest... and had to leave before I got them all viewed! (Getting to be bedtime. 5:30 AM comes around awful early. Frown ) Not only are there killer Frisco pics... but those Mop pics: WOW!!! Got me all fired up to eventually get some Mop power up and going!
Thanks a bunch for that link!

As for almost giving in to the Frisco: "Go ahead Luke (gasp)... let go... feel the power of the Dark Side... (gasp) Black and Yellow is your destiny...."

Big Grin

Andre
To all, there may in fact have been a railroad somewhere that had better looking diesel paint schemes than SL-SF. But I'll be darned if I can think of what it is.

Anyway, we had/have the Yale Yard in Memphis and just across the big river at Marion we have the Frisco Harvard Yard. That's a rather studious group of railroaders if I don't say so.

Butch, I'm still enjoying the photos myself.

Oh, do you think that sign would sell, if produced?
Yep, lots of good memories for me.

My parents would have killed me if they knew where I was and what I was doing. I lost track of time a lot running back and forth on the wooden sidewalk of the old bridge trying to be in just the right spot to get a direct blast of exhaust and wave to the engineer. Maybe that's what's wrong with me now. Smile

Late to dinner more than a few times and they just didn't understand that some things in life were worth an a-- chewing! Big Grin

Butch
Bless you for bringing back a wonderful memory, the old Emerson street bridge over the north end of the GM&O yard in Bloomington. Used to ride my bike over there, sit and watch, and even get cab rides! Glorious old shuddering Alcos belching smoke, sure was fun!

John Albee

I think the Fyler bridge in St. Louis was torn down when I-44 was being built in the mid-60's (1966?).

I live just a short distance away from the ex-Frisco Lindenwood yard (over by Ted Drewes), so I am familiar with the area.

Wish I'd seen more of the Frisco, but I moved to Springfield, MO in 1981, just in time to see it disappear into a sea of BN green. I moved to St. Louis in 1995 and except for a short stint in Dearborn, MI (2004-2007), I've been here ever since.

Jeff C
Jeff, I think you're right. I moved from that area in 1961 and came back for a visit in the late 60's and Fyler was gone. Sort of a bitter-sweet right of passage.

It used to be a deadly bridge. It was downhill going west with a dogleg left that drivers would misread and shoot through the guard rails...many times with fatal results. It exited onto Picadilly Avenue but wasn't even close on alignment.

I lived in my grandparents home on Commonwealth Ave in Maplewood for about 4-5 years in the late 50's and had a great view of Fyler bridge and Lindenwood Yards south end from their back yard and an upper back bedroom. I went back to St. Louis on business a few years ago and amazingly the old neighborhood had changed very little in the 50 years since I left.

Besides the Lindenwood Yard I was only a few blocks east of the MP mainline that passed through Maplewood. It was a very busy stop when Maplewood was a bedroom suburb in the 20's, 30's 40' and 50's, but by the time I was around train stops were rare. I spent a lot of time train watching at the old Greenwood station on Greewood Blvd. Don't ask me how I'm remembering all these names because I don't know. Confused


Ted Drewes, now that is a St. Louis tradition.

Butch
While you guys have been pickin' yer noses and scratchin' yer butts... I've been gettin' some modelin' done!!

This weekend I've made some progress on my Frisco DS-4-4-1000 project. I'm almost finished with the brass work on it. YIPPEE!!

Below you'll see some pics of my progress. Again, they are the typical poor quality that I'm getting sort of famous for, now. Big Grin

What I've accopmlished in the past few evenings and today:

* End handrails in place.
* Cab rails in place.
* Cab shades made/installed.
* Hood side rail installed.
* Front wipers installed.
* Modified the roof corners (contoured to blend with the cab side, then
sanded and smoothed) to better reflect the Baldwin cab.

Won't be long and it'll be time for the DCC and speaker!





Have fun!

Andre
Great job Andre! I've been working on layout drawings and making lists of O scale to sell, but alas no modeling. In looking at your layout drawing I see answers to some of my questions.

Thinking in terms of 3/16" instead of 1/4" is not coming as easy as I imagined and I find I'm wasting valuable real estate I no longer need. Might as well use the size advantage of S properly and get this right. Smile

What is the width (depth) of your 12th street yard? What are you using for minimum radius on the corners of your layout? What are you using for track spacing in your 12th street yard? Do you find it works well or should it be increased or decreased if you did it again?

Thanks for fielding these questions.

I'll be running mostly 40ft cars with 2 axle cab diesels but have owned a RRM Turbine for a long time that I want to run, as well as some E8's and larger steam like 4-8-4 and 4-8-8-4. I'm concerned about operating minimum radius as well as visual radius. Just because a 3 axled diesel or FEF-3 will run through the radius doesn't mean it looks right. I will be using easements on all curves to help out but 48" to 52" radius could be the largest radius I can squeeze in unless I completely change my plans.

Butch

P.S. Anyone else with comments, suggestions or 1st hand experiences would be much appreciated........ Rusty?
Hi Rusty!

Yup, we all do it... just one of those things that we don't admit to very often, though. Big Grin Then there's the "air horn" side of our lower anatomy that always makes for a personally gratified smile or a laugh. Odd that our wives typically don't appreciate such flatulatory talent. Their loss.

Thanks for the compliment... I'm looking forward to seeing it finished, as well!

John:

Thanks!


Butch:

It does take a while to regear your thinking in terms of 1/64th.

All of my visible benchwork is 24". The closet shelf is 17" deep.

As for my layout, it is pretty much "purpose designed". That is, I KNOW I'll never want to see big steam power thereon. I also know that I won't have a desire to run large 6-axle diesels: My modeling interests just aren't there.

Thus, I designed the layout to do what I want it to do:

* A dense urban industrial setting using switchers for primary power.

* 40' or shorter equipment to predominate. Absolutely NOTHING longer than 50'.

* A main with larger radii to accept 4 axle mainline power. (Think: GP's and F's.)

The above understood:

* The switching lead/secondary main has 24" radius.

* The mainline is 30" radius.

* I spaced the yard tracks at 3" to allow fingers between the cars for rerailing/etc. Might have been able to cut that down to 2 3/4", but it is what it is now.

You're welcome!

All:

And here's the other side of the engine. Once the above pics were taken/posted, I sat down at the workbench and caught up the engineer's side to the same state as the conductor's side (photos above):



Have fun!

Andre
Thanks Andre, I appreciate the answers and thoughts. I knew you were building a switching layout and from what I see you designed it well.

I'm still hoping to create a yard and mainline operation but may have to reel in my plans a bit if I can't make it all fit realistically. I think in another life I must have operated trains in either N or HO. Wink

Your radii is a little smaller than I can use but works great for your purposes. But even with 3" centers you're able to put a lot of tracks down in the 12th street yard area. That's a real positive for me.

Thanks again!

Butch
Hi Again Butch!

What size room do you have to work with?

As for HO...

Wow... just last night I took out some of my remaining HO to photo and use to illustrate for a guy on another forum: It's TINY. I can't believe I putzed and piddled with such tiny trains. SOOO glad I discovered S scale.

As for yard track spacing:

Consider getting some flex track sticks, and mock-up your proposed track spacing and see how it works for you. I settled on 3" using a very scientific method: Typical HO yard track spacing is 2", typical O scale yard track spacing is 4"... seein' as S scale is almost in the middle... then 3" it was! Yup... very scientific. Smile In retrospect, I wish I would have used the flex stick idea above. Might have gotten away with 2.75" or so, and maybe even gained a track?

Andre
I Think your formula on track spacing worked very well. We modelers tend to crowd our track spacing and then regret it when we have to rerail a car or use the old 5 finger crane. Your spacing looks good to my eye and that is why I asked. I'm amazed how many tracks you are able to put in a 24" wide area.

I've got a room 11' wide and 30' long of which about 25-26' in length is usable above the garage. One long wall has an additional 8' wide by 5' deep dormer that has a desk and full width windows behind it on the outer wall. The walls go up straight for about 50" and then slope inward as most attic bonus rooms do.

I feel fortunate to have this much room but it shrinks quickly when you're trying to do mainline operation in S. But, I wouldn't switch from S now even if I had 10 times the apace or less than I do. It's just the right size to model as you know.

I can't decide whether to save the dormer space for an upstairs workbench area or incorporate it into the layout. I have another great area downstairs in a spare bedroom (empty nesters) set up now for buiding models and working on trains, so I don't really need the space upstairs, except its in the layout room and on the 2nd floor. At my age stairs are becoming a nuisance and someday maybe a problem.

Butch
You guys are both pushing me and inspiring me as I read your progress and plans.
Yesterday I re-installed the sharp (in 2 rail O) curve that goes from Caribou to Ol' Ben Mine No. 1 and I can tell you it looks perfect in S scale. I ran some equipment and it tracks fine and looks good in the scenery!
I'm more convinced than ever that I made the right move and am very satisfied.
Butch, couldn't agree with you more...it's S scale or bust for me.
Over the next months I would like to find some UP/SP F's to run and eventually the 2-8-0 to run.
S Scale America (Des Plaines) cannot get that SD45 rollin' soon enough, although methinks we're quite a ways away with that one. It will be sweet!

John Albee

thanks Greg, I gotta let the income catch up with the outflow before we get too carried away. One thing that is positive about being hard to find, keeps me from spending on locos when they just collect dust on my shelves.
I'm easing into things real slow.

John Albee

Butch:

I'll bet you will be able to come up with something in that space that you'll be happy with. Just keep doodling on your layout drawing until it gels.

John:

S scale is addictive... and we're all a bunch of enablers!! (As you can see, Greg is an enabler, too!)

All:

Getting my KC&G S-12 up to the same stage as my Frisco DS-4-4-1000 project. Below is a quick pic of them.

Andre

I have a confession...at one time I had 28 Atlas Gold locos in 2 rail O scale.
At $425 each, you do the math. I still have some that have never been out of the box. I'm ashamed to say it. But, I did learn a lesson. $50,000 later and three years after a divorce, you might say I learned the hard way. She blamed
"the trains". So, as a result, hopefully, I'm smarter in the accumulation of S stuff.

John Albee

quote:

Originally posted by John Albee:
One thing that is positive about being hard to find, keeps me from spending on locos when they just collect dust on my shelves.


Yeah, that's not working for me either. One blessing I thought in coming back to "S" scale was the time it would take to locate the locos and rolling stock I would need. I figured it would take many, many months or years to acquite what I needed.

That doesn't appear to be the case this time around as I've found almost everything I need in locos and rolling stock in only a few short months. I actually have more than I need in some locos and once I sort through it, some will be excess and go back on the market. So, now I not only have a lot of O scale to sell but S scale as well.

But, I'm a buy/sell junky and love the hunt. I find it hard to say no to a really good deal once I find it. And, there's been what I consider to be some really good deals out there lately. At least compared to my experiences 10 years ago.

Fortunately, I have no other hobbies or vices so my wife is all for my hobby.......most of the time. Sadly, workig 50-60 hours a week, there's little time or energy to do much else but search and acquire.

But, at least the "S" boxes take up considerably less space in the closet than the O scale stuff. Big Grin

Butch
John,

I have extras in OMI and RRM brass F units if your interested, but not in the SHS F3's. Funny thing, I told myself keep it simple this time around, no brass (except cabooses), no collection of locos, no steam......only diesel, well I guess I didn't listen very well. Red Face

Butch
quote:
Butch, thanks but brass is a little rich for my blood. Over time, I'm sure I'll come up with S Helper Fs.



Hopefully another run of SHS F-units will be made in the future. I think SHS has to be producing product if S scale is to grow, and another run of F-units makes sense to realize the investment on the tooling.

Jeff C
quote:
According to Don Thompson of SHS, ain't nobody to make them. And molds are being "held hostage". (my words) It might be some time before we see another run.




I knew he was having trouble getting another company to run product, but I wasn't aware that he was having trouble getting possession of the molds.

What a shame! The F-units (both F3 and F7) are some of the finest models ever made in ANY scale. I wonder what other tooling is involved?

Jeff C
quote:
Originally posted by leikec:
quote:
According to Don Thompson of SHS, ain't nobody to make them. And molds are being "held hostage". (my words) It might be some time before we see another run.




I knew he was having trouble getting another company to run product, but I wasn't aware that he was having trouble getting possession of the molds.

What a shame! The F-units (both F3 and F7) are some of the finest models ever made in ANY scale. I wonder what other tooling is involved?

Jeff C


It seems the "hostage situation" affects AM and SSA also.

Rusty
Lately brass is not much more expensive than SHS locos, but you do have the added expense or painting, decaling, glazing, etc. But, if you enjoy this activity and building a one of a kind (yours only) loco it can be very rewarding. You just may not be able to do it all at one time.

But, the SHS F units are fabulous locos. I have mine on the mantel for motivation and enjoyment and they are quite remarkable models. Almost makes me question spending the time to turn a raw brass model into a painted, working loco.

My understanding of the SHS dilemma is that it's well on the way to being solved. SHS has found several builders and is making inroads into get their (note I said their) tooling back. Kader is a pack of thieves and cheaters and having to deal with them while using another countries legal system has to be an education.

But, on the Yahoo S Forum last month and in a recent SHS interview posted in Dick Karnes S Curves Column, Don Thompson indicated the worst was behind them and they'll definitely be producing more S products. I dont' think we'll see anything until next year but that is much better than never.

I understand S Scale America (Ron Sebastin) has a handle on their Kader problem as well. The only one of the big 3 producers in S I've heard nothing about is American Models, but I suspect they're getting it pulled together too.

Butch
[quote]Lately brass is not much more expensive than SHS locos, but you do have the added expense or painting, decaling, glazing, etc. But, if you enjoy this activity and building a one of a kind (yours only) loco it can be very rewarding. You just may not be able to do it all at one time.

But, the SHS F units are fabulous locos. I have mine on the mantel for motivation and enjoyment and they are quite remarkable models. Almost makes me question spending the time to turn a raw brass model into a painted, working loco.

My understanding of the SHS dilemma is that it's well on the way to being solved. SHS has found several builders and is making inroads into get their (note I said their) tooling back. Kader is a pack of thieves and cheaters and having to deal with them while using another countries legal system has to be an education.


But, on the Yahoo S Forum last month and in a recent SHS interview posted in Dick Karnes S Curves Column, Don Thompson indicated the worst was behind them and they'll definitely be producing more S products. I dont' think we'll see anything until next year but that is much better than never.

I understand S Scale America (Ron Sebastin) has a handle on their Kader problem as well. The only one of the big 3 producers in S I've heard nothing about is American Models, but I suspect they're getting it pulled together too.



That's good news. S scale needs all three of those manufacturers producing product to grow and thrive.

The F-units are particularly important in my view. It's no secret that F-units are hugely popular with modelers, and in both HO and N scale the EMD covered wagons generate good sales and allow multiple production runs that justify the cost of tooling and development.

And in S scale the vast majority of rolling stock is targeted toward the steam-diesel transition era, and F units are the signature diesel locomotives of the time, rostered on most of the RRs of the era, with huge prototype production numbers and a multitude of classic paint schemes.

Jeff C


OGR Publishing, Inc.
33 Sheridan Road, Poland, OH 44514
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
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