Is this steam engine going to be sold by Trainworld only?

Any news on the RDG T-1?

No Jim, it can be  purchased through any MTH dealer. Dave

I went and made an impulse pre-order of this. Guess I better start re planning my layout for O-72 curves.  I already own an imperial big boy and love the engine...figure the full scale model will be great.  Still hoping that MTH survives in some shape or form...

20-3808-1 is now sold out from MTH.  We have met our allocation on that number as well and no longer taking preorders.

We Still Have room on 20-3807-1 but should sell out shortly since the original version is sold out.

@pbuff posted:

I went and made an impulse pre-order of this. Guess I better start re planning my layout for O-72 curves.  I already own an imperial big boy and love the engine...figure the full scale model will be great.  Still hoping that MTH survives in some shape or form...

You are right. I hope somehow in some way they can survive. I have 2 premier big boys now. I would really like to pre order one of these. I am still not ruling it out. My hang up is about future repairs/parts that may not be available in 2 years from now. I know that under warranty it will get repaired. What happens in 2 years when a board or a smoke unit or anything else goes bad. Imagine having a 1650.00 boat anchor/ shelf queen. Think of the hassle of trying to find an individual who knows how to repair it or someone who wants to. My collection of locos is about 90% MTH and I am worried how to keep this stuff running. Just can't keep buying MTH without some sort of assurances on parts/labor availability. toss em in the trash when they dont work anymore. After all, isn't it disposable income?

I thought this was a good place to enter some good information. I just received a very large box from Train World. Contents of an MTH #1 Gauge Locomotive. I opened the shipping carton to find the Locomotive I ordered in the outer shipping carton in great condition just like it left the factory. I really appreciated that type of extra mile service. They could have made it easy on themselves to put the shipping labels on the MTH box and been done. That speaks a lot about the people in charge. Thanks so much. Dave Nichols

Thanks Dave!

@jini5 posted:

You are right. I hope somehow in some way they can survive. I have 2 premier big boys now. I would really like to pre order one of these. I am still not ruling it out. My hang up is about future repairs/parts that may not be available in 2 years from now. I know that under warranty it will get repaired. What happens in 2 years when a board or a smoke unit or anything else goes bad. Imagine having a 1650.00 boat anchor/ shelf queen. Think of the hassle of trying to find an individual who knows how to repair it or someone who wants to. My collection of locos is about 90% MTH and I am worried how to keep this stuff running. Just can't keep buying MTH without some sort of assurances on parts/labor availability. toss em in the trash when they dont work anymore. After all, isn't it disposable income?

ERR it, throw in a reverse unit, add a bridge rectifier so it runs forward. A dead board is no reason to "trash" a locomotive. There are plenty of easy options to make it run again.

@KenJrTW posted:

20-3808-1 is now sold out from MTH.  We have met our allocation on that number as well and no longer taking preorders.

We Still Have room on 20-3807-1 but should sell out shortly since the original version is sold out.

Ken I just ordered my Big Boy 20-3807-1. I can't wait!

I also forgot to mention that I ordered mine from Trainworld.  Huge fan of the Lynbrook store and the website - best service around!

I ordered my Big Boy from Trainworld.

I'm a little confused, did mth just release a restoration version not to long ago?, is there  any difference  in this version?

@Rush747red posted:

I'm a little confused, did mth just release a restoration version not to long ago?, is there  any difference  in this version?

Besides the signed certificate?  Probably not much.

@MartyE posted:

Besides the signed certificate?  Probably not much.

Ok thanks, I seen the Eric's train video of the big boy and was hoping it had the same sounds

@Rush747red posted:

Ok thanks, I seen the Eric's train video of the big boy and was hoping it had the same sounds

I imagine they could have some sounds added.  It does say something about 2019 excursion sounds.  Not sure if these were in previous models.

I have a feeling this isn't the last Big Boy by MTH, maybe the last Big Boy under Mike Wolf but not for MTH.  Just a feeling, I have no inside information.

Thanks, Richard, Vailen and Pbuff!

@MartyE posted:

Besides the signed certificate?  Probably not much.

Exactly, Its also another opportunity to buy one since the older run has sold out and one more last hurrah before Mike retires. My understanding is the 4014 with gloss black and working lights under the main drivers, like the real restored 4014 were the quickest selling Big Boy and throw in the PFA of the remake of the golden spike celebration and unveiling of 4014 made it more popular.

Are there a lighting & audio talk differences between the two models?

Anyone with a PS3 Big Boy can just download the 4014 sound file into it to get the PFA sequence: 20-3775-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)

Thanks Lou. That takes care of the sound differences. Is there any difference in the lighting?

Will these units be delivered by the time MTH goes out of business At the end of April or May?

Are these units part of  unsold MTH inventory being repainted and adding a new sound file?

NYC428, The Big Boys will be delivered after MTH closes. They will be delivered to Mike Wolf's house in a container. They will be shipped from there thus calling it Mike's Train House for the last time. These locomotives are going to be made new and having a new sound file added. Dave

Will it play the Miami Dolphin's theme song?

Thanks Dave !!

How many will be actually produced please?

After further discussion and clarification with Mike,  the specific number the engine was produced will be on the certificate of authenticity for each one.   The amount produced will be the number of orders given by Friday 1/22/2021, in which Mike will let me know the numbers produced. 

And I used up all my calls to Mike this weekend he is supposed to be on semi-retirement!

Tomorrow is the last day to order!

Each locomotive will include a signed Certificate of Authenticity by M.T.H. President Mike Wolf and are available in two different versions - No. 4014 Oil Burner in current Union Pacific gloss Restoration livery and No. 4014 Original Coal Burner. Models outfitted with the Restoration livery include the "Big Boy" chalk lettering on the boiler front, tender water level markings and a sound set celebrating the excursion runs of 2019.

I like both! But after looking on the Trainworld website I can't decide which one I like more... Hmmm.... I lean towards the oil burner one. Any thoughts on which one to pick?

Thanks, TrainFinder Craig

20-3807-1 Oil is winning in O scale right now but in G scale orders are the opposite.  So I guess pick which one you like!

Thanks Ken, I appreciate the insight. Since I won't lock anyone else out of either version because Mike Wolf was so generous to extend the pre-orders until Friday, and he will make what's pre-ordered, I decided to get one of each. Just made the order at Trainworld. I got to meet some great folks up at MTH when I picked up the factory showroom layout. Now I will have a couple of cool big boys to run on it (if I ever get it put back together haha)! I wish everyone at MTH well in the future no matter what happens!

Thanks, TrainFinder Craig

Ken,  I'm interested in the "G" scale Oil version.  I hope you get enough pre-orders in G so they actually make them

I bought the "O" scale versions (20-3807-1 and 20-3808-1). The "G" scale versions must be absolutely HUGE!

Thanks, TrainFinder Craig

I finally broke down and ordered a MTH steam engine, kind of odd it the last one being produced.

I hate to see MTH go away. Their products are affordable. But I understand that MR. Wolf wants to retire.

How big is the G gauge version? The dimensions are not listed on MTH's web site.

This guy had a youtube video of g scale and ho scale.  might give you and idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gpLLTePrVY

I just got word (email) that my very limited production Big Boy (20-3807-1) has shipped from Trainworld! Can't wait to run my new Big Boy, now I have to sell my other Big Boy 20-3714-1 from 2017.

@TRAIN COLLECTOR 2 posted:

I just got word (email) that my very limited production Big Boy (20-3807-1) has shipped from Trainworld! Can't wait to run my new Big Boy, now I have to sell my other Big Boy 20-3714-1 from 2017.

Richard,

When it does arrive, could you be so kind to post a video review and what your first impressions are vs. the one you currently own?   

I imagine that others like myself would like to know how different the two models are from one another in terms of detail, sound and running capability.

Thanks!

Sure! It is coming ground, so will take a few days. From what I can tell you right now is that my older Big Boy from 2017 was the second run that had the smoking whistle (20-3575-1 was the first run with smoking whistle). The new Big Boy is produced at only 150 units (I think this may have changed due to extreme interest in additional orders). It comes with a signed letter of authenticity on production numbers, has glossy black paint to resemble the real one and also comes with work lights on the drivers. I will do a full a review when I get it.

Does it come with Mel Blanc doing announcements for Anaheim, Azusa and Cucamonga? Yeah, I know, not a passenger engine, and not its territory. But for Train Collector 2, might be fun.

I have one on order. Haven't heard from dealer yet on arrival.

David

@NKP Muncie posted:

Does it come with Mel Blanc doing announcements for Anaheim, Azusa and Cucamonga? Yeah, I know, not a passenger engine, and not its territory. But for Train Collector 2, might be fun.

I have one on order. Haven't heard from dealer yet on arrival.

David

????

Well, I wrote that based on where your profile says you live. The Jack Benny radio and TV show line by the station announcer about the train now leaving for Anaheim, Azusa and Cucamonga. Voiced by Mel Blanc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVdmstYXdRE

A few examples of it in that video - first at about 4:20, then about 5:45, and a later callback - and Sheldon Leonard makes an appearance.

David

I have the Lionel versions, don't need these. Plus I have the original oil version of the 4014 by MTH.

The key wording in the title to this thread is “LAST Mike Wolf”.  I feel confident we will see more production of MTH design Big Boys.  If profit can be made from limited special production runs then there is even greater profit from larger runs.  It seems the delay may stem from transactional hurdles associated with sale and transfer of ownership of business assets.  MTH produced quality products and there is unmet demand for more of that production which market forces will attempt to fill.  Not everyone has to have a preserved locomotive for their collection - I prefer to memorialize those no longer with us by purchasing locomotive  cab numbers that did not survive scrapping.

Strange as I took it for what the ad says. "Final Steam Locomotive Production for 2021 announced". Since MTH is still in business (Thankfully as I love their product), and did not sell off their steam molding it is possible they could produce steam locomotives in 2022 or later!

I think Mike sold some of his steam tooling to Lionel.  Look at there 2022 catalog.

@NYC 428 posted:

I think Mike sold some of his steam tooling to Lionel.  Look at there 2022 catalog.

No where near all of it just a couple that's it and not the big boy!

@CurtisH posted:

No where near all of it just a couple that's it and not the big boy!

True, Lionel or any other company interested in MTH tooling, would only be in the market for models not currently in there inventory.  Lionel doesn't need Big Boy tooling as they have there own.

As far as Mike is concerned, he would have sold everything if he got the right offer.

Received mine from Trainworld yesterday, but haven't unboxed it yet.  Luckily enough the wife didn't notice me hauling the rather large box down to the basement when it arrived...

Arrived today. Awesome looking engine. The glossy paint job looks like it is not die cast. Hard to explain.  Following are a couple of videos;

1.  the tender does not like going through my Ross 092-072 curve. It will not go into it from the points direction where it will ride up the points and derail.

2. I do have min 072 curves on my upper loop. The Big Boy overhangs about 2 1/4 inches around those curves - give it 2 1/2 to be safe - measured from the outside rail.

3. I had to move my crossing light and "mountain" to allow passage through the curve. I am about a 1/2 too much thickness to accommodate the overhang in the curve.

4. While I am not much on reading instructions, there is a shipping bar across the steps at the front of the tender. It needs to be removed to attach the wireless tether. Ask me how I found out. 

5 rather odd? the Imperial Big Boy had a larger overhang at the cab end. The Premier is at the lead boiler.

Good thing there is a new layout planned in the next house. Going to need 092 curves maybe bigger where he is in prime viewing. Smokes you out of the room.

Video of the overhang - pretty extreme to my eye.

At the end of the video you can see the tender jump as it clears the curve. At speed it seems less of an issue.

For those of you familiar with TwinPines RR, I had to pull the mountain scenery to provide clearance. Also pulled the cross buck back as it did not like being swiped by the boiler.

Thanks for posting, is the certificate hand signed do you think? Beautiful piece.

Dear @ScoutingDad,

Thanks for posting those video's!  I agree the overhang is really extreme.

It would be interesting to see a comparison of the two different models side by side on a piece of 072 inch track to see the overhang differences.     

Could you post some still photos of the models side by side for a detail comparison?

Is the detailing appreciably different from what you could tell?

How did you like the new sound system vs. the previous version?

1.  the tender does not like going through my Ross 092-072 curve. It will not go into it from the points direction where it will ride up the points and derail.

I have the last version he did and I tried backing mine through a Ross 072 Turnout  from the points direction and the tender derailed and broke the drawbar to beware.

I have 3 MTH Premier Big Boy's (first run 20-2031-1 cab#4012, DAP 20-80001 cab#4018 and 20-3575) and the overhang seems normal on your new Big Boy. These are huge engines and require allot of space. Once I get my new limited edition Big Boy (I live on West Coast, so it will arrive in a few more days) I plan on selling the 20-3575. The reason I opted to buy this new Big Boy as I figured it would be the last Big Boy under the old company, plus I meet Mike Wolf a few times and he's a very friendly guy. The last time I saw Mike was in San Diego running on my friends public layout on the Old Town San Diego Model Railroad Depot. We had lots of fun running that day and though it would be a great tribute to have one last engine from him (old company). I told him he was the modern day Joshua Lionel Cowen and he smiled at me and laughed.

Here's a YouTube video of my Big Boy 20-3575-1 running on my clubs layout in San Diego, the San Diego 3-Railers. If you look carefully, you can see allot of overhang and we use 80+ radius curves as a minimum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjiTSfsg-5M

Richard - nice videos of the SD Club.  I see what you mean by the overhang even with 80+ curves.

@RJT  wow, would not expect a tender derailment to do that much damage. Glad I tried it going through that section - would not have expected a problem there - especially with a tender.

@jhl1963  The certificate is signed by Mike.  Looks exactly like an EKG but more compressed and erratic.

@Allegheny 

Here is the Imperial Big Boy - I sold it last year. Also a nice engine for something scaled down.

And then Mike's - a panoramic photo since its too big to get a decent close up.

There really is no fair comparison.  The Premier Steamers unlike the Diesels are so much bigger than the RailKing Versions. I have previously posted side by sides with the SP Daylight for the best example. I sold off my Daylight and N&W J class because to my eye they were not up to par. However If I could only run RK steamers I may have kept them. Can't say anything about the sound as yet. Kind of thinking about selling this one. Maybe if I get an offer I can't refuse.  Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for your response and for posting a few pictures.  Enjoy your new acquisition - but be careful going through those switches.   I imagine there has to be a fix for the problem - eventually solved by one of our forum members.

I see you are involved in the Scouting program - as am I.  My son eagled and then aged out back in 2018.   I'm still going strong as an ASM and as a Unit Commissioner for the local district.   

But I do enjoy very much watching the kids grow up and turning into very fine, well behaved, responsible young American young men with strong leadership skills.  Such an amazing transformation honestly.   The only thing I don't do anymore is camping in the dead of winter.  I let the dad's enjoy that experience with their sons!

I don’t have one of these but do have an older FEF, Challenger, and Big Boy with similar tenders. Take a look at the 5 axle fixed truck. The leading and trailing axles have shouldered axle bushings. The three middle axles should have bushings without shoulders to allow more side to side play. I have found at least one of these tenders to have shoulders on all the bushing and had to machine them off.

No idea if this is the issue here but worth a look.

Pete

@Norton posted:

I don’t have one of these but do have an older FEF, Challenger, and Big Boy with similar tenders. Take a look at the 5 axle fixed truck. The leading and trailing axles have shouldered axle bushings. The three middle axles should have bushings without shoulders to allow more side to side play. I have found at least one of these tenders to have shoulders on all the bushing and had to machine them off.

No idea if this is the issue here but worth a look.

Pete

Like Pete said check the centipede truck and make sure the center 3 wheels/axles have side to side play. I have a Premier UP FEF and a Premier DM&IR Yellowstone which use the same tender chassis, and neither have any issues through 072 curves or Ross 072 switches in forward reverse at any speed.

Pete and Lou -as I have time I'll take a close look at the tender wheel sets. Its acting very similar to scale wheel sets trying to make a turn, they just ride up the rails.

@Allegheny My scouting days have long passed, but a few of us old guys still manage to do some wilderness camping from time to time.  I rather enjoyed the winter camping, forest sounds are completely different and I was not in a bunk cabin with a bunch of "odiferous" scouts. Agreed on watching the boys grow up. The program done right helps build fine young men. I suppose we'll have to add fine young women as well but that happened after I "retired" from the "only 1 hour a week" scout leader program.

I was able to look at a Mike Wolf Big Boy and compare the centipede tender truck to the one on my DM&IR Yellowstone, which uses the exact same truck assembly. Both have the same wheel gauge (measured with calipers), with bushings to limit side to side movement on axles 1&5, with the middle three axles having no bushings, to allow them to shift as the truck goes around curves. The wheels on axles 1&5 on the Yellowstone tender have more side to side movement than the same axles on the Big Boy tender. Using a feeler gauge I could get a 2.5mm one between the wheel and bushing the Yellowstone tender, but barely got a 1mm gauge between the wheel and bushing on the Big Boy tender.

Here's the gap between the wheel and bushing on the DM&IR Yellowstone.

Here it is on the Mike Wolf Big Boy.

This could be causing the issue, especially if the 072 curves the Big Boy runs on aren't exactly perfect.

Does anyone know about the switch on the bottom of the tender labeled  AUX / COAL ? I am wondering if there is a harness inside the tender that hooks to MTH's yellow flag AUX tender. Would opening up the tender to look void the warranty?

@jini5 posted:

Does anyone know about the switch on the bottom of the tender labeled  AUX / COAL ? I am wondering if there is a harness inside the tender that hooks to MTH's yellow flag AUX tender. Would opening up the tender to look void the warranty?

That's exactly what it’s for, and the harness is in the tender. I doubt opening the tender to extend the harness will void the warranty.

@Lou1985 posted:

That's exactly what it’s for, and the harness is in the tender. I doubt opening the tender to extend the harness will void the warranty.

Thank you for the reply. That was just a guess on my part. So where is the opening in the Big Boy tender for the cable to extend out of the tender? I don't have to drill a hole on my own.......do I?

@jini5 posted:

Thank you for the reply. That was just a guess on my part. So where is the opening in the Big Boy tender for the cable to extend out of the tender? I don't have to drill a hole on my own.......do I?

The tether should just thread through the hole for the coupler wire in the back of the tender.

Here's the instructions:

UP Auxiliary Water Tender 2015.cdr (mthtrains.com)

BigBoy Update -  got a chance to run the Oil Version Big Boy for the first time in 3 weeks or so with my grandson. Unless a friendly gremlin showed up, the tender is not jumping the curved 096/072 Ross switch like it did earlier. I think its related to run time to allow everything to loosen up. Tender still binds in the switch at low speeds, but a little light oiling of the wheel bearing and additional run time should be all it needs.  Engine runs through no problem.  Its running through the 072 section not the 096 section.

Also connected it through my DCS. Found out accidentally I had to turn on whistle smoke through the app. That is a pretty neat feature,  as well as the quilling. 

Trainworld is the only one with stock left and they jacked up the price by $500

@yardtrain posted:

Trainworld is the only one with stock left and they jacked up the price by $500

Other dealers have them.....

Pats Trains.  Regular price.

Sidetrack Hobbies has both versions according to MTH Product Locator...and less than Pat.

@NickRiv posted:

Sidetrack Hobbies has both versions according to MTH Product Locator...and less than Pat.

I thought Mth product locator was not working any more?

@Billy posted:

I thought Mth product locator was not working any more?

I haven't had the Product Locator work in months yet mysteriously it works this Big Boy. 20-3807-1.

The Product Locator works when dealers enter their inventory and keep up w/ it.

@Billy posted:

I thought Mth product locator was not working any more?

It was offline for a while, but it started working again I noticed.  The question is, do the hobby shops still update it since it was offline for a long time.

On another note, I'm happy with my purchase of the 20-3801-1 from Trainworld. But am a bit disappointed that we were all told this was a very limited run as Mike Wolf was retiring and only 150 units would be produced in 3 rail and 50 units in 2 rail. Also, this run would come with a certificate of authenticity. Well when we received these engines no official number produced (no number "X" of 150 produced) there has been speculation that those production numbers were increased as the orders were increased from dealers. That's okay, but the cert should say something like number 56 of "XXX" produced. Now we hear that Mike Wolf has NOT retired (a good thing) and MTH has taken a different marketing approach on train manufacturing which is okay too. So this will probably NOT be the last Big Boy made under Mike Wolf, like we were lead to believe.

My two cents....

I tend not to believe much that comes out of MTH.  After all we were promised  a swinging bell at York well over ten years ago and I think it was delivered on just one locomotive maybe. Plus we're still waiting for the new DCS system announced over two years ago.

Looks to me like MTH's business model has changed to ninety precent special runs and ten present MTH offering.

@NYC 428 posted:

I tend not to believe much that comes out of MTH.

And you choose to believe whom?

@rplst8 posted:

And you choose to believe whom?

??????

Whoever I choose

I don't know if anyone has had trouble with getting the grounding "spring" to cooperate when connecting the "wireless" drawbar to the tender but I did, so I re-engineered the drawbar with one wire to replace the spring:

i

Now I just roll the tender up, slide the drawbar onto the tender pin, push up firmly, and away she goes. The ring connectors are Red Dorman Conduct-Tite 22-18 ga. I used a #8 for the loco side and filed a #10 as shown for the tender side. I removed the red insulators and soldered the connectors together with a short piece of 22 AWG stranded wire. The tender side ring connector is glued with CA to a nylon spacing washer which is, in turn, glued to the drawbar. The nylon washer has to be filed flat on the edge to accommodate the connector on the drawbar. The spring on the tender pin slides over the pin and holds at the top while providing just the right amount of pressure on the ring connector to give good electrical contact without pushing the connectors apart. I imagine this "fix" will work with all MTH steamers that use this "wireless" drawbar.

Why MTH didn't just give us an 8-pin connector arrangement with the grounding connection built into the drawbar is beyond me.

Bill - dumb question,  I have really never paid much attention to the spring wire which gets in the way of connecting boiler to tender. Are you saying the spring wire is needed for a ground connection? I never saw much use for it - sounds like an Ah Ha moment is in the works.   

Of course never made much sense to put a coil spring into an assembly you wanted to keep together to provide ground contact. This is probably the spring you are replacing?

Thanks ...  Jeff

I've had a Big Boy loco on order since August of 2021, it must still be on the container ship off LA harbor.

@NYC 428 posted:

Looks to me like MTH's business model has changed to ninety present special runs and ten present MTH offering.

I assume you mean “percent.” Or use the symbol %.

@ScoutingDad posted:

Bill - dumb question,  I have really never paid much attention to the spring wire which gets in the way of connecting boiler to tender. Are you saying the spring wire is needed for a ground connection? I never saw much use for it - sounds like an Ah Ha moment is in the works.   

Of course never made much sense to put a coil spring into an assembly you wanted to keep together to provide ground contact. This is probably the spring you are replacing?

Thanks ...  Jeff

Jeff,

According to the manual, the spring wire on the stock drawbar needs to be in tension against the tender pin to "ground" the loco to the tender where the bulk of the electronics are to ensure proper operation of those electronics. Otherwise, sounds will be intermittent and movement of the loco will be jerky. Travel around curves will especially present a problem if this "grounding" is not secure. As I allude to in my original post, I had a devil of a time holding the spring wire in tension across the hole for the tender pin while getting the tender pin through the hole AND ensuring the fireman's gangway would properly bridge the space between the loco and tender. The coil spring I show in the third photo of my original post is an "add-on" and of low compression force so it ensures electrical contact without forcing the drawbar connection to the tender apart.

I ended up getting one of each version from Trainworld.