THE LCS THREAD - Post LCS Questions, Info and Updates HERE

Thanks.  I suspected as much but wanted to be sure.

Also, the sensor track is said to be "Directionally Sensitive" meaning a recorded sequence left to right can be different than right to left.

Is it truly dependent on the direction of travel regardless of if the locomotive is in forward or reverse?  Or does the locomotive need to pass over the sensor in the forward direction regardless if the travel is left to right or right to left to operate properly.

Does that make sense?

Yes, I understand what you're getting at. The forward/reverse state of the locomotive does not matter. If the train is heading "east-bound" or "left to right" SensorTrack will trigger the east-bound event, regardless of which way that locomotive's headlight happens to be facing.

  Cool.

It just occured to me that anyone who controls their switches and accessories with TMCC devices on the data cable will need the LCS SER2 module in addition to the WIFI module before they can get the LCS app to work. The WIFI module is available for ordering, however, the SER2 is not even listed. Will the SER2 device be relealesed at the same time as the WIFI module?

Yes, the SER2 will be available in a similar time-frame as the LCS WiFi. 

Hello All,

In anticipation of the upcoming York show, we've revised and expanded the LCS material presented on the Lionel website. Point your browser at http://www.lionel.com/lcs for all the latest details. And thanks for your continued interest!

Rudy

I like the idea that we will be able to finally write software to control not just TMCC but Legacy as well.  That sounds great!

I'm looking forward to the new iPad app operation of the layout..however I do find the layout user interface on the pad a bit clunky. Having to rotate the tracks to allow snap and not being able to move a block around. I always found RRTrack to be a bit time consuming for a onetime purpose but the iPad user interface tops that. Kind of like someone said...extra work to use the pad for stuff we do easier without it. I do however look forward to being able to operate switches without having to remember which number switch is where. This advantage is not lost on me. I'm in...just sayin'. 

Did Lionel get this wrong again? The LCS Sample Diagram explains TrackLink as "This 455khz radio frequency command control switch is carried on the track"   According to Jim Rohde (Lionel Sr. Electronics Engineer) who I've been corresponding with "For the Command Base the source is the earth ground and the return is the U terminal on the Base that is connected to the outside rail.  This means that the earth ground is acting as the transmitting antenna for the Base.  This also explains why putting earth ground wires on the layout helps.  The idea that the earth ground is the signal source is what normally confuses most people.  For most radios the earth ground is the return."  It seems that Lionel information keeps repeating the misinformation that the track carries the TMCC signal.

Thanks for the correction, Chris. I'll think about how I could re-word the description to be more technically precise, yet still convey the distinction to less technical readers between the new wired LCS system and the existing wireless TMCC command infrastructure, aka TrackLink.

Rudy.

I noticed odd wording with the phrase "like an Apple iPad™" used several times. Since the app is IOS only? Shouldn't it say i the wifi connects to an iPad, no like needed. Unless you are hinting at an android app or that LCS will hook to your PC wirelessly

Rudy,

A couple of small questions:

• Is TrackLink a new designation? Just curious, I don't ever remember seeing it before.
• How do you get to the LCS info page without the direct link? I can't find it.

"yet still convey the distinction to less technical readers between the new wired LCS system and the existing wireless TMCC command infrastructure, aka TrackLink." 

I see what you mean. One signal goes through the air and one goes through the wired bus. Could be confusing.

Lastly....do you think we could expect to see any 3rd party announcements at York? 

Chris....maybe that's a question for the Legacy Breakfast.

I think the Legacy Breakfast will be one the places to learn all about LCS from the experts.

"TrackLink" is not a new term, although I'm not sure how often it's been used in customer-facing situations (e.g. user manuals, marketing literature, etc.).

Right now, I think the direct link www.lionel.com/lcs is the best way to get there. And I'll leave any third party York announcements to the third parties :-)

The new info on the Lionel site is a welcome addition, I have a better understanding of what I will be able to do with LCS.

It needs to be a Legacy with a sensor.

Thanks, Marty. Yes, only a locomotive with the I/R transmitter will work with SensorTrack. 

Is this how the software was meant to work?

Screen shots from LCS app:

Cross over

Yard:

East End of layout:

Meanwhile, this is a logical block wiring diagram:

And this is an actual diagram of the layout (which only exists on paper at this point in time)

This software was intended to build a "virtual" control panel to control trains/layout?

You only "draw" things that require or you desire to control?

You "jump" from screen to screen by using the iPad "finger swipe" technique?

Is there any way that a set of thumbnails for the "other" screens, aka the ones you aren't looking at can be included (like on the photo album app) or a way to add "buttons" that would allow a direct transfer from the screen you are looking at to one of the other screens?

The track sensor can only read the IR signal from the Legacy locomotives?  Is there any thought to having active sensors like a bar code reader that would allow you to read anything that was running on the track.  These wouldn't have to have the programming capabilities that the one demo'd at the open house.  One issue I see with the current sensor is that it only works when the loco goes over it.  If you have a long train backing up on long section of track the sensor won't engage until the loco hits it?  It might be useful to know where the entire train is instead of just the loco?

Chuck

I am hoping they offer boxcars with sensors that can be added to an\ train to make up for engines that don't have the sensors.

That would be great.  Or make a basic sensor snap on to place under any car.  Two wires for power and just enough smarts for an ID number/tag?

One of the advantages of using an SC2 over an ASC to control accessories is that the SC2 retains the on/off setting of the device it is controlling when powered off. How will the new ASC-2 work? 

Don, the ASC also holds the last settings.

Mine don't...  They are configured for all accessories and if I hit Aux2, the accessory turns on and stays on. If I power down the layout, I have to hit Aux2 again to turn the accessory back on.  Is there a way to configure the ASC so that it retains its settings when powered down?  

I don't see that behavior either.  I looked in the manual and I don't see anything about maintaining the settings through power cycles.

Just to be clear - your's don't hold the settings either?

Nope, at least in my test it didn't.  I'm not currently using them, but I just connected one to see how it acted.

Sorry guys. I was thinking of the BPC.

Totally different animal.  I believe the BPC has latching relays.

The BPC does not have latching relays.  The software would need to save the settings in the processor non-volatile storage, if the feature is supported.  I have not observed the BPC operating this way, but I will double check so the BPC2 works the same way.  

Will the new LEGACY IOS APP be able to store more than 99 Engines..?...Thanks..

No, that's a function of the Legacy system, and that doesn't change with the introduction of the LCS.

So what would you guys like to see in an iPad app based on LCS technology that Lionel is not planning (so far as we know) to address in their app? What sorts of things have you been wanting to do that the sensor track technology could enable?

Why do I ask?  I'm an iPad software developer (and not a Lionel employee), and I think it would be fun to maybe turn some of your great ideas into reality. 

//Scott

one thing I would like to see, actually has nothing to do with Legacy, but would love the app to keep an inventory of all my freight cars.  As well as keeping an inventory I would like it too keep track of pick up and destination places for my cars (user defined), and randomly build a consist and assign destinations for that consist.  I love using my small layout to just build random trains and then take those cars to their destinations.  I would love if my iPad could decide what my orders are for building a train.  It would also help me use more of my rolling stock.

So Scott, if you could make this, happen, that would be awesome!  I would be willing ot help make a design doc and screen shots and requirements.  Sadly, I can't do any of the development

Well, let's take a closer look.  I have a basic idea of what you're after. If you'd like to flesh it out a bit more, just send an email to the address in my profile. 

I have been toying with this idea for a while.  I will work to put it on "paper" with some rules/requirements my vision and share with you via email.  It will be a fun project for me regardless of the outcome

MartyE suggested that I repost the following in this thread:

Wonder if there is any chance of an enhancement that would retain the information as to what is on the stub.  Would be a very helpful feature for those with hidden track for storage, etc.  Perhaps an icon next to the stub that could be touched causing a table  to pop up showing what is currently residing on the stub with last in at the top and first in at the bottom.  Also, a summary table showing all the layout stubs with their respective equipment.  Seems to me this type of feature could lead to having dozens of sensor tracks on a layout vs a few.

We're beta testing the LCS WiFi Interface right now. Works very nicely with the iPad (not available for iPhone yet). Android users can use BlueTrain 2.0 (which works great) for engine/MU control only, but there are no layout features (it wasn't designed around that) with better range than the BlueTooth interface. The system doesn't interfere with the regular TMCC, Legacy or DCS remotes, so we can all still operate trains irresponsibly like before.

The sensor track is a nice idea, but I'd rather see the ability to interface with other types of sensors such as Infrared or current-sensing.

Matt

I'm glad they got you testing the LCS.  When Jon was looking for clubs, yours was one of the first I thought of.

I'm thinking we are only seeing the tip of the ice berg with the sensor track.  You notice Jon did say "engines and cars" could be read and determine the direction of travel in another thread so it looks like more is in works.

I agree. The first thing that hit me is that the unit has a buss, so I can see a lot of other items becoming available down the road. What's going to be interesting is seeing how/if the unit integrates with third-party hardware.

Hope everyone is getting ready for a great Thanksgiving. Just wanted to post a quick note that the lionel.com/lcs site has a few updates. In particular, a searchable PDF listing locomotives compatible with SensorTrack can be found on at http://www.lionel.com/lcs/LCSproducts/SensorTrack/ . Just click the "Click HERE for a list of compatible locomotives" and the PDF will load.

Cheers,

Rudy

Rudy,

Thanks for posting link to the compatible locomotives to sensor track.

I just noticed the LCS Sensor Track manual is now up on the Lionel Site.

http://www.lionel.com/media/se...50LCSSensorTrack.pdf

It lists what "Actions" you can program the track for along with how to create

complex recording.

The WiFi module manual is still not up. 

Excuse the lack of a Link.  My browser at work doesn't work with that function. 

The actions are pretty cool and work well depending on the placement of the track.  The recording function I found to be fairly accurate as long as the engine enters the sensor track at the same speed it entered when the recording was initiated.

 At the LUG meeting my Texas Class traveled back and forth for almost 20 minutes without missing a beat.

Can't download it...says it's unavailable.

Yes, it's been removed. It was a draft document that was inadvertently posted. There's  additional recording functionality that will be in the final product which is missing from the draft manual. I'm working a new video to describe the SensorTrack in detail. Stay tuned!

Ahhhh!  That explains all the typos.

I was getting ready to pre-order the WiFi, LCS sensor track, power supply, and cable and then realized that there is nowhere to order the SER2. Since I still have DCS attached to the Legacy I gotta have the SER2 to run both together? Am I correct in this? When does the SER2 release?

Hi Jeff,

Ironically, the SER2 will probably be the first item in stock.  It was left out of the catalog because of miscommunication on our end.   I will look in into how to get the part number available/resolved so it can be ordered.  And yes, you will need one to maintain DCS connectivity. 

I can get you a sample SER2 if we can't get the ordering resolved.  Since I only have one spare SER2, you are the lucky one!

jon

Awesome! Thank you. I am really looking forward to the WiFi. Any news on the PC side for apps?

I know I have read about people wanting sensors in Boxcars and other such cars and I agree that would be great.

but my question is, what about in a Caboose?  They already usually have power pickups for lights and plenty of room for one thing.  And additionally, an engine lets you know where you train begins, a caboose could trigger actions after a train has ended.  This would also be great on cars with EOT devices (vision tank car, cattle sounds car).

just a thought...

That's a good idea, the caboose is a natural place for the sensor.

Great Idea! And it even makes sense that I can understand...

For those that money is not an issue, how about placing the sensors all of the cars so you could tell what cars were located in a particular consist? I am not sure of the number of cars/engines that could be stored but is a thought.

If a way to manually program the necessary data into the car to provide the specific information of road name, car type, road number etc.

Sorry if I didn't read back thru all of the previous posts if this was already stated...

I think I had thrown in (a while back) the idea of using passive RFID tags like Walmart, etc puts in merchandise to detect shoplifting. They are cheap and bendable to a certain degree, lending themselves to placement into almost any kind of freight or passenger car.  

The current SensorTrack, of course, is infrared based, so what I'm suggesting implies different hardware, i.e. "SensorTrack-RF" as opposed to the current "SensorTrack-IR" that Lionel will be delivering Real Soon Now.

//Scott

Sounds like a good 3rd party development project.  Now that the interface to the Legacy has been documented, you could use the RFID logic to communicate to the Legacy base.

Any update on availability of the Wi Fi Module and the SER2 module?

I can't seem to find either on the Lionel Shipping schedule but I may not have searched for the right thing....

The new iPad LCS app is now available for downloading.  It incorporates much of what I'd hoped for, such as switches and curves with 22.5 degree curvature.  Love the two-finger rotation for pieces.  The loco roster is upgraded, too.

My only wish now:  In editing track, I wish I could move a connected section of tracks as a unit.  It's hard to get all the layout right when first placing them.  But it's a minor complaint.  Lionel is doing great work with this LCS app!

   Bob A.

Just downloaded the upgrade. Looks good so far. Looking forward to getting the WiFi module so I can try it out. 

Nick

In editing a new track configuration with the new upgrade, two suggestions:

1. Be sure to save your work after every 5 minutes or so.  I had the app quit several times, losing some work since the last save;

2. Don't place the track down to the lowest part of the editing display screen, because it will be partly covered up with the control panel at the bottom of the screen when you then go into operational mode.

   Bob A.

We're beta testing the Wifi Module and it works great, both with the iPad LCS App and Bob Krivacic's "Bluetrain" Android App (TMCC Cab1 replacement only). Have not tested the Ser2 module yet as I'm still reviewing the documentation. I don't know the release date, but my gut tells me that it's close as the system's performance is good, the hardware is nicely done, the user documentation looks good, and the LCS app has the look of a finished product. I'm hoping that an Android version of the LCS app will be released soon to take full advantage of Legacy.

The Bluetrain app now uses WiFi which greatly extends the operating range of the cell phone/tablet

Bill, I can't speak to expected delivery dates, but I can concur with Matt that the WiFi module seems pretty rock solid. We're deep in development of a couple of iPhone/iPad apps that exercise it pretty well, and I've been really pleased with it so far.

//Scott

Yep, can't wait to get my hands on some of the components and see how they work together.

I've been waiting for some info on how to hook up Lionel's new LCS  WiFi system.  As mentioned in OGR run #270 go to www.lionel.com/lcs/FAQ. I found most of my questions answered here along with a layout diagram, showing modules needed and how to hook up this system.

Jack  

Time for some updates - shipping schedule updates?

Beware Lionel still has the older ASC units in stock. I accidentally ordered four, the dealer doesn't stock them, they get them from Lionel when you order.  

Will the older ASC units with an SEC2 unit work the same as a ASC2 unit?  

Also, what is the status of SC-2?  One dealer suggests they will be available in May.

I bought an Ipad so I could run the LCS app, while it is interesting there needs to be a lot more switches and track added to it.  I have  been able to set up "approximations" of different section of my layout.  Is the software holding up shipping of the new hardware?

Dan

Which iPad and OS are you using?

cjack - I'm using an older iPad, about 2 yrs old (iPad 2?), running the latest iOS 7.1.  But when I posted that note I was one iOS operating system version earlier.  I believe, from other posts on this thread, that Lionel has fixed the bug causing crashes during track editing; they've posted a new version of LCS since then, but I haven't done thorough checkout of the latest LCS.

   Bob A.

Yes. I'm using the iPad1 which crashes routinely in the browser. Just wondering if the crashing was Apple or Lionel. I can't upgrade this one to more than 5.x...guess I'm supposed to buy a newer one

cjack,

We use the iPad1 with iOS 5.  This should work fine, and not crash.  Did you download he latest LCS app?

Yes. I haven't used it much yet, I just wondered about the comment about crashing since my Safari crashes. I can usually avoid the Safari issue actually by waiting for the page to finish loading

I was wondering about the LCS modules because I am having the Detroit 3 Railers over for a meet at my house on April 12, 20+ guys and gals.  I was hoping to have a working LCS to show them.  Otherwise I don't have a problem waiting.  Plenty of other things to work on.

Dan

We're working on a couple of LCS-related apps, and so far the only Legacy engine we've been able to test with is a GP-9. With all of the app testing, the poor thing probably has 1,000,000 scale miles on it by now.  At any rate, we now need to work with a Legacy steamer to make sure sure we cover the steamer features. Could anyone suggest a low-medium priced (stop laughing, they're all expensive, I know...) Legacy loco that would have the "typical" set of Legacy steam features?

Thanks!

//Scott

Pricing on steamers is down all over the sponsors store.  Might want to check them out.  Just make sure you get one with the IR sensor.

OK, I've now found and read the new Lionel Track and Power catalog for 2014-2015.  It lists the 6-81325 LCS WiFi module that I've been waiting for, and that module apparently requires a 6-81499 LCS DB9 cable w/ power supply.  I go to the Lionel shipping schedule, and it shows the cable with April '14 shipping, but doesn't show the WiFi module at all.  Does anyone know when the WiFi module might actually be shipped?

Bob,

Can't help you with the ship date, but the cable is definitely required.

//Scott

Inasmuch as I'm a die-hard Reading fan, I wanted a suitable Legacy-equipped Reading steamer, but could not find any readily available.  LCS app development will therefore be happening with this as the guinea pig:

http://www.lionel.com/Products...neID=&CatalogId=

I'm blaming it on those Tom McComas videos....

Regarding the track layout feature on the Lionel LCS/ipad. I knew it would not record a legible route but I was Curious.  So I activated my running app, placed my iphone on a flatcar, ran it around the layout & I was correct, it was not legible. To bad the GPS cannot measure in inches.

I emailed Lionel to ask when the 6-81325 - LCS Wi-Fi Module and the 6-81499 
– LCS DB9 Cable with Power Supply were expected to be available, because I'm looking forward to using them on my layout.  I received an answer almost immediately--which I think is fantastic customer service--but it seems that we have a little wait for these items:

"Unfortunately we do not have an estimated date of delivery for either of these
items. Once we have an estimated date you can check it here:
http://www.lionel.com/Products/ShippingSchedule/. You may also feel free to
contact us back also."

Keith

Most of the parts are just updated such as ASC to ASC2, it also has faster communication link.

The L81294 - LEGACY LCS SENSORTRACK and the L81325 - LCS WIFI MODULE are both new and have the faster com link.

Also, the L81326 LCS SERIAL CONVERTER is new and is use to convert the new com link to the old com link speed for compatibility so nothing will be obsolete.

Hope this helps.

Dan

The Newer modules, such as the ASC2, will have extended features including the ability to read back the relay setting on the module.  Therefore if a Cab1 or Cab2 throws the relay, the module will send out the status to the devices such as the iPad so an update to the iPad screens can be shown.

Not that we did not support the older modules, such as the ASC, you just have some limits in functionality.  If you are considering any accessory remote controls, or expect to use a smart device sometime in the future, you should consider the latest modules: ASC2, BPC2, AMC2, SER2, etc.

The ASC2 only does 4 switches...so...I guess I can reduce my 21 switches (4 SC-2s) easily to 13 switches (crossovers between loops). So that's 4 ASC2s. Ok...sort of.

Now...no SC-3 is coming out, eh? So I can be relatively comfortable pre-ordering the ASC2s?

One issue is the non-derailing function of the Fastrack switches, that won't be reflected in the layout map on the LCS from what I'm seeing.

I think that is being thought about...

from the LCS meet thread from Jon...

"I looked at the video, and it seems my response to question #8 not understood. 

The answer I gave was directed specifically to the question of an insulated rail detection; I just embellished the response that the insulated rail section detector could also provide feedback to the LCS system for switch (turnout) position.

Currently, if you throw a switch from a non-derail even, the iPad LCS app has no way to update the screen to match the actual switch position.  We will design a module this year to sense the position of the Fastrack Switch, along and the Atlas Non-Derail module, to report back the direction the switch is thrown.

The new sensor module will also be able to support insulated rail detection.  We can have the iPad report occupancy with this information.  Obviously without IR, not much else will be reported.

Jon,

Thanks for the info...

With this new sensor that is being developed for the Fastrack Switches, are all current, manual, remote and CC Fastrack Switches be able to use this new sensor?

I can't see how the manual ones would work, but the remote and command ones have a simple bi-polar position feedback for the indicator that would probably be used.

Jon stated above they are looking at a way to tell the LCS a switch's position after the switch was activated via its non-derailing function.  He then said this was for the Fastrack switch and the Atlas non-derail module.  What about the DZ-2500 switch machine with the DZ-1008 relay module?

Ron

Come on John, something new to come up with! LOL

Magic eye?

I was thinking about just adding a sensor of some sort that could sense the position of the linkage that activates the manual flag indicator or maybe something off of the switch of the rail?

If you added a sensor and emulated the +/- output of the indicator lead, it would probably work.

I have a BPC1 toggling power on and off to four blocks.  I plan to get the
WiFi module and use the iPad app.  If I add the SER2, will I get the same functionality as with a BPC2; specifically, will the BPC1 with the SER2 send out updates to the iPad screen?

Keith

Does anyone know the answer to this question???

Happy Mother's Day!

Keith