The Lion Lines

Lion Lines states cars are something that have somewhat been forgotten about, but fascinate me.

I remember being at 1 one the wildcat outdoor meets at York a long time ago, and there was a table with a green New York observation under it. There was a boy around 13 or 14 watching the table. So I asked what the price was for it, and he said $100. I jumped on it, thinking that I'd struck gold!

What made me think that it was original was, that it had cast journal boxes. And I knew that Williams did not. (I don't remember if MTH had made them yet at this time). I just paid for it, and shoved into a bag quickly and moved on.

When we got back to the car, I looked it over, and realized how poorly that it was made compared to a William repro. My first thought was that is was homemade. I asked every train guy that I knew to ask about this "Lion Lines" company, and none of them knew about them. Even Tony Hay!

Eventually someone told me (maybe here) that they were sold as a kit back before Williams or anybody was making reproductions of states cars. And (I think) I was told that Williams first made only 381E & 408E locos around 1973, and no cars. So people bought them to go with those first generation Williams locos. Then, Williams next run had the cars around 1979. So the interest dropped off because the new Williams cars were almost exact replicas.

There are almost no matching or interchangeable parts on them to an original, but (maybe) the trucks.

The sheet metal is thinner, and some is aluminum. The roof's edges do not wrap downward, but are more flat and have sharp edges. And the roof's hinges are a piece of tubing epoxy glued to the roof, and a piece of wire on the car to make them hinge. And they didn't latch shut, but just sat in place, like some of the prewar European cars. The observation deck is not sheet brass, but a cardboard like middle with a thin brass skin similar tin foil. Sort of like what a nice gold Christmas present box is made of.

All of this sounds awful, and they sell for less than $100 each if you find them. Because you can get Williams or MTH cars for $150 or even $125 for Williams states cars. And these always have glue on them and parts loose, and many chips in the paint from assembling them because they did come as a painted kit.

But I've always been fascinated by them. I guess because I'm a machinist.

Someone put a whole lot of time, effort and expense to make these, only to see them sell for the price of lunch for 2 people.

They had to machine all of those stamping dies and make the parts, because they are different from an original, or any other repro states car. So they had to have to have been machined by the makers. Even that material on the observation had to be pressed.

I've collected tinplate trains for 40 years, and for some reason, I still look for more information about the "Lion Lines Company", and who the people were that made them. And if they made anything else. So maybe someone else will add to this thread, with more information.

I did see the brown 4 car set sell for $325 Friday Nov. 20th on ebay. I would have liked to have bought it, as I have a green set.

And Tony Hay eventually had a brown set at a train show in Lexington, KY on his table. So he knew that I wasn't crazy asking about them in the past. But I didn't buy that one. So if anyone has a brown set, I'd be interested in buying it, just because they're interesting to me.

I hope someone adds more information to this thread. I'd also like to have any papers or advertisements for them.

Bill

Just about 2 months ago I threw out about 200 pounds of old MTH & Lionel catalogs and all my TCA magazines and papers, thinking I'd never look at them again. And now I want one!

Can anyone post what the article says about "Lion Lines".

I never remember seeing that one.

Bill

Here you go Rob and Bill

Tim