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With the reintroduction of the scale-sized USRA Light Pacific by Lionel American Flyer, it might be interesting to compare the new B&O P-5 version of the Pacific with the original B&O USRA Light Mikado from 2005 which have many similarities. In this process I posed the new Pacific with the Gilbert-style streamlined passenger cars that were included in the 2005 6-49612 B&O set as I had for the original Mikado for the magazine cover shot for a written review that appeared in the S Gaugian (See below).

Appearance: Although both models are decorated well, I feel that the matte black of the older Mikado is more desirable and the positioning of the headlight and the B&O road plate on the smoke box of either the Mikado (or the 6-48061 B&O Pacific from 2008) is the more satisfactory positioning from the standpoint of an as-built P-5 <edit>. The coal pile on the new Pacific is more appealing and one can make the case that the sheen of the black on the new Legacy engine is more in keeping with the varnish being used here. Overall, advantage 2005.

Operation: This is where the new 2022 Legacy Pacific shines. Smoke, sounds, smoothness of start up, and running of the new Legacy version are all much superior to those aspects of the original TMCC Cab-1 Era effort. Fluid duration on the Seuthe smoke unit is a big limitation in the older model and the durability of the particular cherry switch selected for the chuff generation is lamentable. The firebox flicker and electrocoupler are both excellent features on the new Pacific. The electrocoupler is too large relative to the model, but it does function very well and is both useful and fun for the Flyer operator using Gilbert-style knuckle couplers. One can back the engine up to the first car (the baggage car in this case) on a curve and succeed in coupling on the first try. Neat! The six passenger cars were pulled with ease and operation on Gilbert/K-Line tubular track and turnouts was very good (provided that the track is clean). The operational aspect that I would change is extending the spacing between train speeds as realized using Cab-2. Given that the prices of the two models uncorrected for inflation are roughly the same, the operational improvements are quite remarkable. Advantage 2022.

A side note: Unpacking, viewing, and running the Gilbert-style streamliners from 2005-6 was gratifying. Regardless of whether one likes them as models, they rolled easily, the mechanical Gilbert-style couplers work fairly well, and they are decorated at a level of quality that betters the current efforts in this area by much of the high-rail S gauge competition to Lionel.

All in all, the new Lionel AF Legacy Pacific is a worthy and worthwhile update.

Bob

2005:

AF B&O Mikado

2022:

B and O Pacific

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  • AF B&amp;O Mikado
  • B and O Pacific
Last edited by Bob Bubeck
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@Bob Bubeck posted:


Appearance: Although both models are decorated well, I feel that the matte black of the older Mikado is more desirable and the positioning of the headlight and the B&O road plate on the smoke box of either the Mikado (or the 6-48061 B&O Pacific from 2008) is unquestionably prototypically correct. rly well, and they are decorated at a level of quality that betters the current efforts in this area by much of the high-rail S gauge competition to Lionel.


2022:

B and O Pacific

Bob,

The B&O did mount the headlight in the center of the smokebox in later years, so the new Pacific is also correct in that respect.

Rusty

I agree, these new/old Pacifics are very nice with the Legacy system. I have three of the new Pacifics, NP, NYC and AT&SF. Also have seven of the old Pacifics and Mikados, all modified with cruise control, half speed worm and an MTH fan driven smoke unit.

I noticed the three new engines needed several hours of run time for break in. At first the operation in the first four speed steps was irregular/inconsistent. They now run much better at the lowest speed steps.

Here are pictures of the NYC running on speed step 10 and the old TMCC B&O running a little faster, around speed step 25 (out of 100.)  The top speed of the new Pacifics is much higher than the old ones modified with a half speed worm (courtesy of AM.) The smoke fan in the new Pacifics has much more lift than older Lionel AF engines and more than this MTH fan unit has. I like smoke, can never have too much.

I really enjoy running these new Pacific engines, nice to have the electrocoupler.



1B7C7EB0-33DC-4AD0-8DCF-3B2F5558BD1AA0594A20-043A-4266-8C36-24A4725DB4E1

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  • 1B7C7EB0-33DC-4AD0-8DCF-3B2F5558BD1A
  • A0594A20-043A-4266-8C36-24A4725DB4E1

Oh?  Depends on when and number.

Low: 5314, 5319, 5316.  High: 5052, 5200, 5215.

Rusty

Rusty,

I believe that you are posting pictures (53XX) of examples of P-7 types and confusing those with P-5 types (52XX). The Lionel model is pretty much an as-built B&O P-5 USRA Light Pacific which would be correctly modeled with the headlight mounted on top of the smokebox front. Allowing that the B&O did later modify some of the P-5 types and designated them P-6 types, my point is that the model would be better (and more correct) to have had the headlight mounted atop the smokebox.

Respectfully,

Bob

@AmFlyer posted:

<snip>

I noticed the three new engines needed several hours of run time for break in. At first the operation in the first four speed steps was irregular/inconsistent. They now run much better at the lowest speed steps.

<snip>

Yes. I noticed a definite break in period, too. In my case about 2 hours. I am enjoying mine as you are yours. Because many hobbyists are/will be running these new Legacy Pacifics on a Gilbert-themed layout with Gilbert/K-Line tubular track and turnouts, I thought it useful to post some observations from that operational standpoint.

Bob

Spent some time running my Lionel /AF Legacy B&O P-5 Pacific again this past weekend. The headlight placement error aside, it is an appealing and good running model. A high fun factor. In the context of the pricing of the reissued Y3's, it appears to be with its 'street price' something of a bargain.

Have fun.

Bob

Bob, I agree with you about the value, probably why I find myself with three of them. I also was running those engines this weekend. The sound is very good and the smoke units work great.

The new Y3 is a completely different matter. I have a PRR on order and for the price it better work perfect and use the O gauge speed step system like the Big Boy did. If not they at least need to change the gear ratio so they run at more realistic speeds at the higher speed steps. My personal opinion is any engine that can use only the first 25 steps out of 200 if operated at scale speeds is not a good runner. With the original Y3 and almost all other S gauge engines the "Railroad Speeds Steps" are useless, unless operating a Y3 at a scale 100mph is wanted. Ok, I won't complain any more.

@AmFlyer posted:

<snip>

The new Y3 is a completely different matter. I have a PRR on order and for the price it better work perfect and use the O gauge speed step system like the Big Boy did. If not they at least need to change the gear ratio so they run at more realistic speeds at the higher speed steps. My personal opinion is any engine that can use only the first 25 steps out of 200 if operated at scale speeds is not a good runner. With the original Y3 and almost all other S gauge engines the "Railroad Speeds Steps" are useless, unless operating a Y3 at a scale 100mph is wanted. Ok, I won't complain any more.

A discussion of the new Y3's is for another time once they are delivered. However, I can not offer much (speculative) hope about changing the speed steps. Post L/AF Big Boy, Lionel developed a set of smaller-sized Legacy boards for Flyer scale-sized offerings that, among other positive attributes, are DCC capable. The AF Big Boy was the first Legacy Flyer offering in which the standard Legacy boards of the time were utilized because they could fit into what is originally a K-Line O gauge locomotive model. Regardless of its faults as a model, the AF Big Boy is a lot of fun to run and still has the best sounds of any AF Legacy locomotive. Changing gear ratios is a possibility, but one could risk stalling at slow speeds. My speculation is that the speed step arrangement will be as before by using the existing AF Legacy boards on hand. Having a perfectly nice PRR Y3 from the previous issue, I shall sit out the reissue and enjoy others enjoying their new ones.

For what it is worth.

Bob

Last edited by Bob Bubeck

I agree with your comments Bob, I was just whining. The only new feature addition to the 2022 catalog Y3 is whistle steam and that was likely simple to drive from an existing output on the boards. The best running from a scale speed range perspective are the recent U36 diesels. I would think the speed range was reduced from the old U33's by changing the gearing. All my old TMCC Mikado's and Pacific's have a half speed worm gear retrofit that works fantastic for realistic speed ranges in R100 mode. I think the sound quality on the Legacy Berkshires and new Pacifics is fantastic. I hope Lionel does release some Legacy Mikados.

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