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I'm hoping that Lionel acquired the MTH tooling for this very handsome and truly unique locomotive, and produce it with all of the great features of the Legacy system. Perhaps even a candidate for the Vision Line.
The New York Central/P&LE A2a Berkshire Locomotive. The last steam locomotives ordered by the New York Central Railroad. Built by the American Locomotive Company (ALCO) in Schenectady, NY in 1948. ALCO was already changing its facilities over to diesel locomotive production at that time and could not produce the coal tenders for this locomotive, which were made by the Lima Locomotive Works in Lima, Ohio.
This was a freight locomotive used on the NYC subsidiary, Pittsburgh and Lake Erie (P&LE), and used to haul coal drags in the "coal country" of western Pennsylvania, extending into Ohio and West Virginia.
MTH NYC:P&LE A2a Berkshire Locomotive

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  • MTH NYC:P&LE A2a Berkshire Locomotive
Last edited by Rich Melvin
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@gmorlitz posted:

I have the MTH version of that engine and it is truly a winner. Great looking and great running. I particularly like it with the Menards nose art boxcars.

Gerry

Yes, that's the one in my photo. Problem is I have to run it in conventional because I can't get DCS to work for ****! If Lionel does a Legacy version somebody can have a good deal on this one!

Y’all want the best of the best,…I’d find one ( they are rare but do pop up on occasion) ….get you a MTH version and send it to the legacy doctors Sid & Bruk,…those guys are doing amazing conversions, with a huge emphasis on quality craftsmanship……to be sure they can add all the legacy features your hearts desire,….so you’d have a bullet proof locomotive with personalized care on an install,….if I wanted a legacy A2, I’d be knocking on my buddy Sid’s door, KNOWING Im about to get the best of the best,…..why hope & pray??…..it’s achievable right now,….😉

Pat  

@superwarp1 posted:

No one knows what happen to the steam tooling from MTH.  Did MTH 2.0 keep it? Was it sold to Lionel?  Maybe the right question ask to the right person at York can find out.  As in ask MTH parts on the side,  maybe someone will slip up or ask Lionel.

Gary, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you have one or more of your PS2 Hudsons swapped over to legacy by Dr.Bruk?……Id think the swap option is a realistic option for some of these guys,…..from what I’ve seen, both Sid & Bruk are accomplished craftsman,…..

Pat

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

Last month an A2a went for over $800 on eBay, and they don't come up for sale too often! I'll take a Legacy version too!

I hear ya, and yes it’d be nice to see a Lionel Legacy version of this locomotive…..no doubt….I’m merely pointing out what’s achievable right now,…..yes they are kinda rare, but the bay isn’t the only source, and if your only pricing gauge is the bay, then your missing the bigger picture,…..with current conditions in the world, the bay is the last place I’m shopping right now,…..that’s a fixated audience with eyes glued to their screens,…….plenty other avenues to explore,….those that beat the bushes find the deals,…those that keep their eyes glued to the bay only are herded cattle,…..simple as that,,..

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Gary, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t you have one or more of your PS2 Hudsons swapped over to legacy by Dr.Bruk?……Id think the swap option is a realistic option for some of these guys,…..from what I’ve seen, both Sid & Bruk are accomplished craftsman,…..

Pat

Bruk, did my B&A Hudson and did a fantastic job.  Waiting in the wings is my L4 Mohawk and down the road a UP Challenger.  Bruk right now can’t take on any projects due to work and family responsibilities. So everything is on hold but hopefully will change in a month or two.

I do know that about 4-5 months ago, someone had asked Mr. Muffin about his A2 in the comments, and he said that it wasn't for sale, when he got it, and that they occasionally show up on the web for sale. Told the person that if they see it, buy it, it's a great engine.

I also agree too with what Pat said on upgrading. Since I only run Legacy, that would be the route I would go if I ever got my hands on the MTH version, if I chose to. Currently though, I'm not ready to be shopping for one, so I'll have to wait.

About where the toolings went to. You'd have a better chance pulling out an Alabama tick off you. I would suspect that no one will say if they have, was sold to, not a whisper. If we're going to find out, were going to be told. Ryan has to follow the company policy of not releasing any information on any future projects. The only way he would is by the book, if they had a special engine that they would be taking orders at York for(which I doubt).

To be sure, I'm sure that they will possibly have some samples to show us from the earlier catalog and possibly maybe something from the most recent. I wouldn't get my hopes up on any big surprises until hopefully the new year with the next catalog. Just have to hope that they have the toolings we want them to have(and hopefully and then some), and will make what they should.

All that I hope Atlas has got a great selection as well, probably not steam engines(maybe they do, don't know), see what they come out with. I know I ordered their first batch of passenger cars they revealed.

Again, I’m all in favor of seeing you guys get your dream Legacy A2a NYC Berk,…so let’s look at the possibilities,….first, you’ve got to hope Lionel got the tooling,….and that’s a lot of tooling,…..it’s all gotta get moved ….then some of tooling will need to be modified to suit Legacy systems….then pilot samples have to be made for testing….THEN, if  Dave & Ryan need any changes,…it’s back to modifying tooling……IF it all works out, then they can go to production,…..it’s gonna be a while before you guys even see something on the horizon,….and it’s only an If they just so happened to pick up this particular model,…( which they very might as well have done)  So again, I’m not trying to beat a dead horse,….but fellas like Skip that DO have this locomotive, but really can’t enjoy it because of whatever reason, there is an option,….if Bruk is jammed up like Gary has mentioned, Sid is just as capable of doing this swap…..I’m not advertising for either one, but it seems those two have this legacy swap thing down to a science,…I mean Sid took a Williams J and turned it from a toy to fine model,…I was impressed ,………in a nutshell, all I’m saying is if you have one, or you find one, and Legacy is your desire,…don’t wait for maybes and ifs,  the Legacy doctors CAN make it happen,….that A2 produced by MTH is a friggin battle tank,…..heavy casting, ball bearing worm, heavy bronze gear, and ( my personal favorite part) Pittman powered,…..and with Sid or Bruk putting their “ stank” on it,…man, you’ll have one honking hunk of metal,…….the resources are all right here on this very forum…….here’s the skinny with the myriad of extreme talent on this forum,…. way beyond what the factory could ever hope to churn out,……the difficult we do straight away,…the impossible takes just a few minutes longer,…😉….

BTW, I stole that last quote from my buddy Pete,…I really like that!..🤣🤣🤣

Pat

Last edited by harmonyards
@gmorlitz posted:

Sure, why should people on the Forum have any idea of what things cost? Clearly a terrible thought. I understand that costs can vary, but was curious. Nothing like transparency.

Gerry

Every engine is different, every install will have different features.  For my MTH Hudson, if you purchase the parts at full retail you are looking at 350-400 bucks.  I purchase my parts at the warehouse sale for 50% off.   Depending on what Bruk will need to do, (3D parts, special mods, etc, etc)  look at another 300-500 in labor.   I have no Idea what Sid will charge but he may get one of my projects if Bruk can't take it on.

To me it's worth it.  I'm not a fan of the DCS system, sounds are old and stale.  Legacy operation is worlds above DCS not to mention Railsounds,  IMO.  Others will disagree.  I only have three MTH engines anyway.   Will I do any TMCC engines to Legacy?  Maybe someday down the road but I like how they run and sound now.

But lets get back to the A2 Skip posted about.  Really wish I knew where that tooling is.  There's been no steamers announced since the MTH breakup.  This Berk would be a real seller. 

Last edited by superwarp1

Thanks Gary, I was curious. I realize that to a certain extent they are all different. I've had proto2 upgrades done and have done them myself. I've had Timko can motors installed to be able to do proto2 upgrades. I understand pricing varies. I like DCS. I like the way it works, the different station sounds, etc. So very unlikely that I would do a Legacy upgrade.

Gerry

@gmorlitz posted:

Sure, why should people on the Forum have any idea of what things cost? Clearly a terrible thought. I understand that costs can vary, but was curious. Nothing like transparency.

Gerry

How hard would it be for you to contact one of the Legacy builders and have that conversation with them?….pretty sure if you asked them, they’d give you a quote,…a terrible thought is speculating what somebody else is gonna charge,….no need to beat around the bush,….go to the source for the answers,….

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

How hard would it be for you to contact one of the Legacy builders and have that  terms conversation with them?….pretty sure if you asked them, they’d give you a quote,…a terrible thought is speculating what somebody else is gonna charge,….no need to beat around the bush,….go to the source for the answers,….

Pat

I have no issue with Gerry’s question.  Having a sense of the pricing up front is helpful in thinking it over without taking up the builder’s time with a phone call.  

Same issue came up here with layout builders.  I didn’t want the price of the layout shown, as that would be inappropriate to your point, but a range per square foot is not out of line and the builder provided it.  Helpful in terms of thinking it through.

I have no issue with Gerry’s question.  Having a sense of the pricing up front is helpful in thinking it over without taking up the builder’s time with a phone call.  

Same issue came up here with layout builders.  I didn’t want the price of the layout shown, as that would be inappropriate to your point, but a range per square foot is not out of line and the builder provided it.  Helpful in terms of thinking it through.

Nothing like beating the horse to death,…..after he’s dead,…..I ain’t got no problem with Gerry’s question,….BUT!..good golly,…you wanna know the price, go right to the source,….some of y’all make mountains out of mole hills ,…….then go in circles on the forum when 2 emails would clear up the great mystery,….geeeeezzz……

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

How hard would it be for you to contact one of the Legacy builders and have that conversation with them?….pretty sure if you asked them, they’d give you a quote,…a terrible thought is speculating what somebody else is gonna charge,….no need to beat around the bush,….go to the source for the answers,….

Pat

Because its a total waste of the builders time since I have  no intention of putting in Legacy. I'm happy with DCS. I was curious. Done.

Gerry

You know, I am curious did anyone suggest this engine to Ryan(more than once)? I know we are at York, and suggestions usually go into the ears and the response is either nothing, shaking the head, or "That would be a good one." This is not a criticism, more of just an observation on past questions I have asked or witness others ask about different engines. The other thing that I consider in what they are producing, is what they have done. If they are working on something, that would be several years down the road. Even if they did have the tooling, figure maybe at least 3 years minimum. So, should we who are at York ask if they have thought about these engines?

You know, I am curious did anyone suggest this engine to Ryan(more than once)? I know we are at York, and suggestions usually go into the ears and the response is either nothing, shaking the head, or "That would be a good one." This is not a criticism, more of just an observation on past questions I have asked or witness others ask about different engines. The other thing that I consider in what they are producing, is what they have done. If they are working on something, that would be several years down the road. Even if they did have the tooling, figure maybe at least 3 years minimum. So, should we who are at York ask if they have thought about these engines?

For the record, and for the sake of my fellow NYC operators, I did indeed mention this to Ryan, and yes, I think the poor man was so busy, all he could say was that would be a good one,…..so nothing beats a try but a fail,….Ryan was being tugged in every direction but center,….he was getting quizzed to death about that new A class on Thursday….this was sometime after noonish,….I’d doubt he’d even remember the conversation, nor could I say I’d blame him……

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

For the record, and for the sake of my fellow NYC operators, I did indeed mention this to Ryan, and yes, I think the poor man was so busy, all he could say was that would be a good one,…..so nothing beats a try but a fail,….Ryan was being tugged in every direction but center,….he was getting quizzed to death about that new A class on Thursday….this was sometime after noonish,….I’d doubt he’d even remember the conversation, nor could I say I’d blame him……

Pat

Well, I can always ask again. If he says that someone else asked, he remembered.

@harmonyards posted:

For the record, and for the sake of my fellow NYC operators, I did indeed mention this to Ryan, and yes, I think the poor man was so busy, all he could say was that would be a good one,…..so nothing beats a try but a fail,….Ryan was being tugged in every direction but center,….he was getting quizzed to death about that new A class on Thursday….this was sometime after noonish,….I’d doubt he’d even remember the conversation, nor could I say I’d blame him……

Pat

Well, I can always ask again. If he says that someone else asked, he remembered.

Well, I did ask him the best way I thought possible. I did have his undivided attention, asked what the difference was between an A2 and something like 765. He gave me a very good lesson on the differences and talked a bit about A1's, which the B&A had some. Didn't know that either. We talked a bit further but nothing went anywhere as far as the A2's, which I sort of thought may happen. Regardless at least he knew what we were talking about.

I did also say that there has been a ton of chatter about these(the A2's) which I am also sure he is well aware of. Hopefully before the next couple of years we'll get one down the like, or wherever these beauties would come from.

@BillYo414 posted:

I assume that point is the yard here in town. The building and hump at the Gateway yard are still there. The building is in ROUGH condition. I suspect they'll take it down before long unfortunately. It's just been vandalized beyond belief.

First that is sad!  That would be round the area but as I recall Gateway Yard was not built until around 1956  when the A2a's were long gone.  When I lived on Erie St. until 1950 would have been about 2-miles away.

Ron

@PRRronbh I never saw any action in that yard but I know a number of people that used to go down there just to watch the hump in action. They weren't even train fans. They said it was just a cool operation to watch. I believe part of the yard still exists and is used down near the school in Lowellville.

I would like to see these engines done in Legacy though. It would be something interesting and different.

I got my A2 about three years ago from Trains, it was brand new with no miles or time on it. I really love it as it is one of the best locomotives in my fleet. I run it every chance I get, even if its only on the floor layout. It runs well off DCS , it crawls when I start it up and at least I think the sounds are really good, plus it's a runner! I also have some Legacy locomotives and the Legacy system. I'm not comparing, Legacy is Legacy, DCS is DCS.  I like both systems.

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