The Tangled Webs We Weave...

To quote a great thinker, Jack Nicholson, "There ain't that many shopping days til Christmas."

I know a guy that has been working on an HO layout for twenty years and it's only half scenic-ed.

Relatively speaking, you can do a nice O gauge layout in an hour and a half. HaHa

I like this topic.  Thanks for sharing.

Everyone is different, so you do have to trust your gut.  But, I will share my experience. 

A few years back I got this bug for super duper realism.  It made me start to unreasonably dislike my o scale layout and lead me into dabbling in HO.  I got a couple DCC locos, DCC system, a few pieces of rolling stock, and even set up, with the help of a friend, L girder layout benchwork.  Never got the track laid.

Then it sat, I didn't want to go down there.  Both layouts just sat there.  Doing the HO layout itself somehow felt like work, and the trains themselves did not elicit any real strong emotion from me, mostly because I grew up with Lionel.  I fell away from trains altogether for a couple YEARS, thinking meh, I don't have "enough room" for O, and HO isn't my cup of tea.

Then Christmas last year, I put up a loop and ran some PW.  Then, went downstairs and got back into my O scale layout, big time, and got so much done in 2018 on the layout and hobby in other ways as well.  Now I still strive for realistic scenery, but also realize that for me the train hobby is 3 rail O scale equipment and accept and even embrace the necessary compromises as "reality checks" that these are toy trains.   I even view those compromises as warm reminders of my PW train origins, even on my detailed "realistic" layout.  So instead of, meh that straight into an 072 without an easement on my lower level no longer bothers me as not realistic, but I now literally see it as a much broader more realistic curve compared to my traditional trains.  Its an upgraded PW type layout, not a downgrade of an HO layout.  All a matter of perspective.   

I love real trains, and study locomotives, rolling stock, routes, railroads, etc., and want some realistic scenes, but I love toy trains too, and that ultimately is what my layout is, its a place to run toy trains, call them what you will, scale models, whatever, it is my hobby, my play, my toys.

Another thing I have done that has been helpful, is I jump around on projects.  I do what I feel like doing.  Some hardscape scenery here, paint backdrop there, underbrush there, trees, redo some track work, rewire something, work on a locomotive, weather a car.  I use my feelings as a guide so as to avoid it ever feeling like work.  (of course there are some things that are not as enjoyable as others that you need to get done as prerequisites, but you do what you gotta do).

The HO layout was torn down at some point over the last few years and I have not regretted it at all.  But again, everyone experiences the hobby in different ways.

GV:

You full well see what I'm seeing: Time's a' wastin'.

At THIS POINT, I have the dexterity, eyesight, and physical ability to make good progress on my proposed HO layout. The layout is to be 19' x 15' L-shaped w/peninsula. However, how long before I DON'T have the dexterity, or the eyesight, to continue in HO? I know that time may be coming, 'cause like you say, there's only so many shopping days 'til Christmas... but none of us know "when" reduced abilities will begin, or if we'll even get to that point before the old ticker gives out.

Case in point: My best model railroading friend is in his mid-80s. There's not a realistic way he can model in the demanding size of HO scale. Now, he CAN piddle with 3-rail... but he would struggle with the stamina required to start, and build, a new layout. His "life situation" is that he's pretty much captive to the house caring for his wife of 64 years. (They are a wonderful couple. Best friends you could ever hope for.) His Lionel layout is out in a two story garage, up a set of STEEP pull-down stairs. I helped him build it some 15 or so years ago. But the fact remains that he's separated from his hobby, and doesn't really have the physical ability to start a smaller Lionel layout within any available space within his home. (I will be offering to help him do so next time I've over there to see him.)

So... I'm taking the time NOW to try to figure out which direction I want to go, and begin heading there.

All fer this 'un.

Andre

best get building and painting,

life isn't a dress rehearsal, there is no extra time or penalty shoot out at the end. 

I'm a few years before full retirement but I am deliberately concentrating my interests and get my locomotives as I want them, turning the wheelsets down to scale tire, DCC and weathered where appropriate. If it doesn't fit my interests the it goes to eBay or forum sites here. 

Hi Jeff!

You're welcome on the topic start. Selfish purpose, though it is.   (And thanks for your input!)

Your thoughts concerning 3-rail is EXACTLY what the path I would pursue if it ends up being 3-rail.

However, my path to this crossroad I'm at is quite different than yours. I come from a long history of scale modeling. That scale modeling history is what derailed (pun!) my 3-rail attempt back in the early 2000s. Simply put, I started off with traditional trains and was having a lot of fun. Then I began to make the attempt to make it into what it can't be for me: Up-sized HO. That is, I started going toward scale sized 3-rail equipment, etc, and in so doing 3-rail lost the appeal it had for me (i.e. toy trains among a nice setting). Instead, I was becoming frustrating with it not looking "scale" enough for me. Trying to make it "scale" in my mind, well, then that third rail finally urked me and I poop-canned the 3-rail idea. I then spent lots of time and money trying to model in the scale side of S scale... only to become frustrated with the lack of variety/etc in that scale... went back to HO diesels... then decided to at long last go ahead and try a 19th century steam layout. (I've got a heavy side interest in 19th century railroading that I've had since the early 1990s.) That pretty much where it sits now: Nothing tangible has been done, layout wise, even though my out building has been ready for a layout for two years now.

So as I (we) can see: Something is definitely amiss.

Thus, my rethinking of what the future of this hobby is for me.

It a bit I'll talk about what I'm tempted to do with 3-rail, but that's all for this one.

Andre

Limey:

Yup, you see it too!  Essentially it's time to poop or get off the pot.

Andre

Greetings,

For many years I was a die-hard HO scale model railroader.  I also engaged in the pre-retirement “stocking-up” on everything I thought I would need to hit the ground running when the “Big Day” arrived.   Guess what?  It didn’t happen the way I planned!   I was told that as one gets older, things get easier.  NOT TRUE!  There are doctor visits, taking care of aging parents (if you’re lucky enough to still have one or both parents around), lots of “honey-do” stuff, Blah, Blah, Blah (you get the picture).   Sooooo, I started liquidating all of my HO train stuff and that was that.   Not quite.  While in the process of liquidation, I found “O” scale trains.  Big, heavy trains that smoked, made a lot of noise, and you could run ‘em with a little gadget that looked like a TV Remote.   How cool is that?  The rest, as they say, is history.  This a great hobby but sometimes I think we lose sight of what it’s really about.  There have been days, or even weeks when I did nothing on my layout because I didn’t have the right frame of mind.  I would often go to the train room and spend time just looking at the layout waiting for an idea to pop into my head.   Heck, there were even times when I felt like tearing everything down.   I believe we all go through these “phases” but the bottom line is, It’s A Hobby And Hobbies Should Be Fun!  If ya don’t feel like working on your layout, don’t.  Take a break and come back later, it will still be there.  Besides, who said there was a completion date on your hobby.  Just sayin’.

Chief Bob (Retired)

For me, doing something as creative as building a model railroad starts with a dream.

Everyone's dream is different.

Mine had a lot to do with my young children at the time, and the trains I treasured that I had, and didn't have, as a child. For me, converting from traditional tubular track 027 (what I had and liked as a child) to traditional tubular track O Gauge (what I didn't have as a child and loved) was very fulfilling.

Designing the layout for me was fantastic. I loved pouring over track plans and layouts in model train books and magazines, especially OGR Magazine, and mulling over my own handwritten drawings of track plans and deciding where I would put this or that accessory and other structures. The design phase was a labor of love.

Building the benchwork was scary for me because of my fear of power tools, but I knew it was very important, so I studied and followed a publication on building solid, sturdy benchwork.

Though I am far from being an expert on scenery, that is another labor of love for me. Scenery for me is never finished.  It's fun to tinker with it for a lifetime.

The backdrop is something that should be planned and done early in the process. You don't need to be an artist to do it, I'm not, and painting the backdrop can be an exhilaratingly creative thing to do.

By the way, it's been good for me to be a pack rat with my OGR Magazines. I have over 25 years of them. They are great to refer back to when doing any train related project. Of course, this Forum is another tremendous source of expert advice.

Electricity is very challenging for me. I only know the very basics, and if I was going to do it over again, I would do it differently. But, my mess of wires miraculously works!

I bet there are some Forum members that may die laughing after seeing the above photo. LOL

This proves that if I can build a layout, anybody can do it. LOL

Most importantly, take action and have fun. No one's layout is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes and any mistake can be corrected. For instance  I could correct my mess of wires, but it has stood the test of time (20 years) so I don't need to. My trains slow down at the ends of my layout because the wiring is not perfect, but I want them to slow down at those places.

One more thing. It sounds like you have plenty of equipment to get started. I would start with what you have, which will preserve your resources until you get some experience and then find out what your ultimate model railroad dream is.

I bet that most of the best layout builders on this Forum would agree that they needed to build at least 3 or 4 layouts before they knew what the ultimate layout for each of them would be.

Arnold

laming posted:

Hi Jeff!

 ... 

I've got a heavy side interest in 19th century railroading that I've had since the early 1990s.) 

...

Andre

Yes, a 19th century layout would be terrific.  I share the interest.  I recently listened on Audible to the unabridged audiobook Nothing Like It in the World by Ambrose (and another audio book Iron Rails, Iron Men)  both about the transcontinental Railroad.  Fascinating stuff!

Take some of what you have and build a small portion of a layout.  You may find that putting some trains into action will be enough to jumpstart the creative juices.  OR you may decide that something isn't working right.

If so, the next question is to determine what that something is.  Era?  Scale?  Maybe you end up doing a O2R 19th Century layout.  Maybe you end up back with HO diseasels.  Maybe you go with P48 diseasels.

But actually doing something in a small way will possibly help sharpen your focus without wasting too much time or money.

You have been on this forum for quite some time even before there were sub forums for smaller scales. Do you have 1/48 stuff? Your concerns seem to be about dealing with smaller models in the future. Could you just transition to On30? Basically the same track and power requirements. I would think there is enough motive power than could pass for 19 century. Everything except the track would be larger.

Pete

Great topic. I've been a heavy O scale leaner over the years and did make attempts at smaller scales. An HO experiment and an N gauge one came to nothing. I've gradually come to the "good enough" philosophy as championed by Tony Koester and others, and I'm gathering items for a 10' x 14' L-shaped  3R O gauge layout. I've had my share of fussy little projects that never got finished, and now feel happy with something that looks reasonably good, isn't rivet--counter accurate and RUNS. (And on 027 profile track, 042 minimum radius to boot.)

“The more fiddly you make doing everything on your layout, the more you make it unlikely it will ever happen,” he wrote. “For a large layout, Allen McClelland’s good enough principle is not just a good idea—it’s the key to actually accomplishing something.”

Just my $0.02 or less. Best of luck and don't pet the swe.....  no, don't sweat the petty stuff.

GVDobler posted:

 

I know a guy that has been working on an HO layout for twenty years and it's only half scenic-ed.

 

HA!  Got him beat.  I gots me a 30 year old S Scale railroad that's only about 1/3 scenicked...  At least it runs reliably...

PUFFRBELLY posted:

For many years I was a die-hard HO scale model railroader.  I also engaged in the pre-retirement “stocking-up” on everything I thought I would need to hit the ground running when the “Big Day” arrived.   Guess what?  It didn’t happen the way I planned!   I was told that as one gets older, things get easier.  NOT TRUE!  There are doctor visits, taking care of aging parents (if you’re lucky enough to still have one or both parents around),

Sorta what I ran into.  I retired in January and it's been a little rough sailing for most of the year.  Nothing tragic, fortunately.  It's just situations and events that sapped my time and/or enthusiasm.

Things have finally calmed down and I've recently begun to get serious on some of my projects.

Rusty

From reading your description, it sounds to me like you have gotten overwhelmed with the what ifs, in effect saying "well, I really would love to be able to build a detailed HO layout that is Colorado mountain railroading, but that is going to require building the benchwork, going to require modifying equipment, laying in scenery, and then as time goes on I am going to have to deal with small, tiny details, putting the equipment on the track, etc", and then another part of you is saying "you will get the layout to near where you want it, then won't be able to run it".  It is far too easy to get caught up in the what ifs, problem with that is the what ifs turn into the shoulda, woulda, couldas, too. 

It is true that as we get older that it gets harder and harder to do things, eyesight and arthritis and the like take their toll....but you also can't know how you will age either. Tony Koester that someone quoted is not that young, well into his 70's I believe, and he is still very active with his modelling, and there are others who are in their 70's and 80's still very active, and if you base it on the idea "I'll be too decrepit in a couple of years", you won't even start, maybe the attitude should be "I'll enjoy building the layout, enjoy the path, get done what I can, when I can, and in the end if I have to hang it up, I tried and had a load of fun doing it".

Likewise, the "good enough" quote comes to mind.  OP mentions that if he is going to do the Colorado mountain layout in the 19th century, that it will require modifying equipment (I assume to make it more prototypical), building kits, etc...why not build the layout, do the trackwork, wiring,get that going, run the equipment you have for now (even if it is unprotypical) while you do scenery, and then spend time making the equipment "prototypical", maybe it wouldn't be so daunting. Trying to work on detailing equipment while also building the benchwork, laying track, doing scenery is a monster task. One thing I do know from project management, when you look at a large project in its potentially finished state and try to plan for that (top down), rather than looking at the steps needed to get to that final state (bottom up), top down can be very, very unmotivating. 

I tore down my old 3-rail converted to 2-rail BPRC layout at the beginning of the year.  I decided I wanted Atlas 2-rail track and Signature Switch switches, on Mianne benchwork.  Still BPRC (no wiring) and all my engines and rolling stock still have their Hi-rail wheels (no middle rollers).  I got the layout up and have had trains running for a few months now.

I turned 67 in August and have arthritis in my hands, I want to build more old craftsman type kits like Ambroid, Athearn, etc, but man my hands hurt.

I also haven't done any scenery yet, intentionally.  I wanted to give my track plan a chance, to make sure it was what I wanted before I made it "permanent".  Just don't feel like doing things more than once.

I have all my old Athearn and other HO stuff in plastic boxes, I doubt I could handle that gauge as well as I do O anymore.  S scale may be a good compromise if you are looking to change scales.

I would suggest thinking about getting Mianne benchwork, but if you've already got the lumber then it may not be something you want to spend more $$$ on.

I'm to the point that a bit of scenery will do me some good, although I still haven't decided if I'll lay ballast.  I may try spraying some textured paint on the sides of the roadbed and be done with it.

But playing golf and shooting guns has encroached on my train play time, I can do all 3 in a day but I'm beat at the end!

Looking at my engines and rolling stock, I almost wish I didn't have any diesels, I prefer running my Williams/Samhongsa brass engines along with a MTH 0-6-0,  two 2-8-0, and a Lionel 4-8-2.  And I almost wish I could bring myself to whittle down those to maybe 6 or less.  I have my favorites and could do it if I set my mind to it.

It's all up to you , like I've always said...The hardest part is getting started, making that 1st cut, the rest is easy after that.

Hi All:

Thanks for some thought provoking replies.

In a few minutes I've got to start the process of prepping for my responsibilities at church tonight. (Shave/shower, fix n' eat supper, etc, then load up my music stuff and off to church w/practice following service.) So, no time to dive in and type out some replies.

Bear in mind the "next one" would make my fifth layout. Actual layout construction to the functional stage doesn't hold any mysteries or skills that will need to be developed. Some of my past layouts were quite expansive For example, one was a tri-level in a dedicated RV trailer with 79+ switches (turnouts), and over 200' of main line (90% hand laid track on main/visible yards) w/stages on each end, all of them HO diesel. I say that to let you see that I have the needed skills to get a layout up to the functional stage, even some scenery. However, in view of a Colorado theme layout, I WOULD need to develop the scenic skills to pull that off to my satisfaction. I think that lack of "Colorado scenery" skill sets is also a factor in my paralysis.

Oops... outta' time. Got to get started.

All fer now.

Andre

Speaking of the physical challenges of building a layout and even running trains as we get older, sometimes when I have to crawl under the train tables to get to a derailment or for other reasons, I think of it as a form of yoga.

Physical activity, if it doesn't kill us, is often good for us. Arnold

Hi Andre, I have been building my layout for twenty two years and it's still not done. I guess it never will be because I keep changing things every time I come up with another brilliant idea.

Let me tell you that I have been at this very same impasse as you and there is only one way to get through it, just do it!

My point is to make sure you work on it every day for at lest an hour. I guarantee you that hour will turn into three or four with out even trying.

I have a friend who is a writer and he had a dead line that he feared would come and go before he even got his outline completed.

I told him to just start typing,  gibberish if need be but throw  ideas on paper and see where it takes him.  Well, he laughed and showed me the door, but I heard typing as I walked out.  

In short, Just do it!  

Andre, I think the problem is something most of us face. We are interested in so many different types of model railroading, that it is very difficult to choose just one. We have limited time and resources, so we don't want to make the wrong choice. If this is indeed the issue, I really don't have a good answer. In fact, I often struggle with this myself. I currently model in 3 rail O scale, but I previously modeled in HO. Every now and then, I feel drawn to the HO scale side. An HOn3 layout would be interesting too. I even once considered N scale after seeing some great layouts at a train show. It would be ideal if we could have multiple layouts, each representing our various interests, but unfortunately, this usually isn't an option for most of us. I have to admit that I don't really have any advice or suggestions, but I can say that you are not alone.