THE WARHORSE

The Lionel Warhorse series was an interesting set of offerings, with its unique factory-weathered engines and cars.  Another set of cars that would make a great consist behind this J would be the weathered reefers that Lionel made in the early 80s, one of the many pioneering products produced during the MPC years.

I have that Warhorse J set from '96.  I bought it used a number of years later.  It is the only set I have that is weathered.  I will weather buildings and roads, but I absolutely can't bring myself to weather any of my engines or cars.  They look so great with the shiny paint and wonderful graphics.  It's like, would you weather a model of a Corvette?!  No way!  Thank you so much for the video and photographs!!

Nice review of one of the classics from that era!  I am a little puzzled as to the electrocoupler being present right out of the box, most sets did not come with the electrocoupler, but it was offered as an add-on "kit".  Back in the late 90's there were a few engines that were "almost there" in terms of all the TMCC "bells and whistles" of the time, and just missing the electrocoupler, so couplers were offered a year or so later for most of these engines.  Some of the early TMCC GP-9's from the same era were also like this.

To me, this set was what  started my O Gauge hobby/obsession.   In late 1996, I had just finished college and saw the ads for this Warhorse set in one of the train mags.  Having been into HO growing up, my initial thought was to try to make a similar set with HO components since I had 2 of the Bachmann HO J-Class engines already (less the weathering detail, I was just going for "close" with the engine/hopper/caboose pairings).

When I landed my first "real" job a few months later, I decided to buy this set from my LHS.  That was the beginning of the end! .  Aside from a Lionel Village Trolley set I had bought for under the Christmas tree a year or 2 earlier, this was my first O Gauge purchase on my own.

Thanks for bringing back some memories.  I might have to dig this out to run now! 

Side note, while not part of the set, there was a supposed "add-on" hopper car that was strangely not weathered.  It was the same style in every other way (all indications seemed to point to it being intended as an "add-on"), but it obviously looks odd with the rest of the set.

-Dave

@breezinup posted:

The Lionel Warhorse series was an interesting set of offerings, with its unique factory-weathered engines and cars.  Another set of cars that would make a great consist behind this J would be the weathered reefers that Lionel made in the early 80s, one of the many pioneering products produced during the MPC years.

 

 

That would be an interesting addition.

@Dave45681 posted:

Nice review of one of the classics from that era!  I am a little puzzled as to the electrocoupler being present right out of the box, most sets did not come with the electrocoupler, but it was offered as an add-on "kit".  Back in the late 90's there were a few engines that were "almost there" in terms of all the TMCC "bells and whistles" of the time, and just missing the electrocoupler, so couplers were offered a year or so later for most of these engines.  Some of the early TMCC GP-9's from the same era were also like this.

To me, this set was what  started my O Gauge hobby/obsession.   In late 1996, I had just finished college and saw the ads for this Warhorse set in one of the train mags.  Having been into HO growing up, my initial thought was to try to make a similar set with HO components since I had 2 of the Bachmann HO J-Class engines already (less the weathering detail, I was just going for "close" with the engine/hopper/caboose pairings).

When I landed my first "real" job a few months later, I decided to buy this set from my LHS.  That was the beginning of the end! .  Aside from a Lionel Village Trolley set I had bought for under the Christmas tree a year or 2 earlier, this was my first O Gauge purchase on my own.

Thanks for bringing back some memories.  I might have to dig this out to run now! 

Side note, while not part of the set, there was a supposed "add-on" hopper car that was strangely not weathered.  It was the same style in every other way (all indications seemed to point to it being intended as an "add-on"), but it obviously looks odd with the rest of the set.

-Dave

Glad you enjoyed. My set had a special order sticker on the original shrink wrapped box when I got it. I still have the sticker in the box. Inside the box was the tender with the original coupler and then the electro coupler was in a separate bag.  I also have the add on hopper car, but at the time of the video, it was stored away in a box.

@Mark Boyce posted:

I have that Warhorse J set from '96.  I bought it used a number of years later.  It is the only set I have that is weathered.  I will weather buildings and roads, but I absolutely can't bring myself to weather any of my engines or cars.  They look so great with the shiny paint and wonderful graphics.  It's like, would you weather a model of a Corvette?!  No way!  Thank you so much for the video and photographs!!

No problem. I enjoy making the videos and describing the trains of the past and present.

Adding on - This is also the only weathered set I have.  Just like the looks of it.  Also have the separate sale cars, some in duplicate.  Really enjoy operating it.  As mentioned, the sounds and weathering make the set.

I also have this set and found 4 extra gondolas though they are the same road numbers they have a different weathering look.  The longer train looks better IMO.

Also have the ATSF  & Southern Pacific  warhorse sets. All are great and unique sets, to bad they didn't make more in the series.

Since I modeled in HO back in the '90s (actually from the late '60s until about 10 years ago) I did not realize the Warhorse was a series of sets until your topic, Sid.  I thought this was just a one off.  I saw the J and the A in action on the old Southern tracks from Alexandria to Charlottesville back in the early '90s, and have loved the J ever since.  This topic has been extremely enlightening!  Thank you everyone for the additional information!!!!!  I am certainly glad I clicked on the topic!!

@Jushavnfun posted:

I also have this set and found 4 extra gondolas though they are the same road numbers they have a different weathering look.  The longer train looks better IMO.

Also have the ATSF  & Southern Pacific  warhorse sets. All are great and unique sets, to bad they didn't make more in the series.

A longer train would definitely look good. Hopefully one day Lionel will do something similar to this again.

Nice video Sid. I always liked this set. I decided to run my 611 set from 81 last night after watching this. Call me crazy but enjoy the Mighty Sound of Static a bit.

I will be doing a video in few weeks on that set. I know the trend is towards more scale realism but I really enjoy the traditional sizes stuff the most. It still has a little whimsy to it.

@RamblerDon posted:

Nice video Sid. I always liked this set. I decided to run my 611 set from 81 last night after watching this. Call me crazy but enjoy the Mighty Sound of Static a bit.

I will be doing a video in few weeks on that set. I know the trend is towards more scale realism but I really enjoy the traditional sizes stuff the most. It still has a little whimsy to it.

Thanks. I totally understand the enjoyment of the old sounds. Sometimes simplicity is golden and it is what makes these semi scale models so nice in my opinion. They are good looking models that also run well and get the job done. They provide the operator with the chance to imagine the real thing. Smaller models are more like old Prewar and Postwar models where imagination and enjoyment are what make the hobby fun, not smoking whistles, crazy paint jobs, or super complicated electronics. Don't get me wrong, new scale models are nice, but they loose some of the character that these older semi scale models have.

@dkdkrd posted:

I picked up the Santa Fe Warhorse set in 2005.  Hardly an accurate ATSF 4-6-4 rendition, if you're a picker of nits (I'm not...always).  But that whistle!....probably one of the best-sounding generic steam whistles ever.....brings a smile every time.

The set came with 4 classic ATSF map-series boxcars.  Lionel also released a singleton add-on car.  Like Jushavnfun, above, i've picked up 5 orphans along the way.  They're duplicates in number, but the engine is worthy of the same, for sure.  Those boxcars are one of those things I like to casually watch for at a train show/meet.  If the condition and price are right, I'll probably pick up a couple-to-few more....one of those knee-jerk weaknesses.....that's part of the fun!!

I forgot about the SP set.  Can't say I've seen those offered on the secondary market as often as the N&W and ATSF set.  Was that the third in the group??  If so, I wonder if the total numbers were less than the first two, reflecting a declining interest...and ultimate end...in 'Warhorse' sets?

KD

The Hudson definitely has an amazing whistle and I have noticed it's chuff sound is very deep. Adding additional cars definitely makes the sets look better. I do believe the SP set was the 3rd set to be made. I don't believe it was any less popular, but I could be wrong. I have seen lots of them on the second hand market.

This is one of my favorite sets, but I did a cruise commander and can motor conversion to mine. For me, it’s much more enjoyable with the can motor. I also have a second set of weathered coal cars that I pull behind it.

@SPFord27 posted:

This is one of my favorite sets, but I did a cruise commander and can motor conversion to mine. For me, it’s much more enjoyable with the can motor. I also have a second set of weathered coal cars that I pull behind it.

A can motor upgrade and cruise is definitely a nice upgrade. I would like to get some more cars to make the consist longer.

Like I mentioned in the Lionel 2020 V2 Catalog thread, I'd like to see the VL Hudson re-issued as the ATSF Warhorse engine.

Or, just remake the original engine, but with the missing valve linkage and piping added that its NYC sibling had the same year.  Would not have to use a Pulmor, could be made today with a can motor.

Dave

@Sid's Trains posted:

A can motor upgrade and cruise is definitely a nice upgrade. I would like to get some more cars to make the consist longer.

Here is a short clip after the conversion. 

@Dtrainmaster posted:

Like I mentioned in the Lionel 2020 V2 Catalog thread, I'd like to see the VL Hudson re-issued as the ATSF Warhorse engine.

Or, just remake the original engine, but with the missing valve linkage and piping added that its NYC sibling had the same year.  Would not have to use a Pulmor, could be made today with a can motor.

Dave

That would be extremely interesting to see.

@SPFord27 posted:

Here is a short clip after the conversion. 

Nice. Something that people have also done with these is put the Century Club Berkshire Pullmor in them. They were known for being more quiet and smooth in operation.

@SPFord27 posted:

This is one of my favorite sets, but I did a cruise commander and can motor conversion to mine.it.

Who did the conversion (or did you do it yourself)?

I'm hoping that at some point Lionel will do the J in the LionChief + line. I really wish they would have done one in the LionMaster line, but at this point that's probably unlikely.

A Lionchief J would be very nice. They could likely use the toolings from the PWC 746 J for a Lionchief model. A Lionmaster version would likely more like a MTH imperial model and less like the traditional Lionel 746 style.

@dkdkrd posted:

I picked up the Santa Fe Warhorse set in 2005.  Hardly an accurate ATSF 4-6-4 rendition, if you're a picker of nits (I'm not...always).  But that whistle!....probably one of the best-sounding generic steam whistles ever.....brings a smile every time.

@Sid's Trains posted:

The Hudson definitely has an amazing whistle and I have noticed it's chuff sound is very deep. 

The Warhorse Santa Fe Hudson has a reputation for having one of the best whistles ever made.

@breezinup posted:

The Warhorse Santa Fe Hudson has a reputation for having one of the best whistles ever made.

Now wondering. The strange thing is it's soundset is very much like what a NYC Hudson should sound like.

Nice review. I also have the set complete. I think I had it displayed once but can't remember

This a few of my old inventory pictures. I think it was Lionel's first set that included the TMCC controls.

Like several others have mentioned it is the only train I have that is weathered, And I have a lot of trains.

Like Mark said I just can't do it. lol

@Larry Sr. posted:

Nice review. I also have the set complete. I think I had it displayed once but can't remember

This a few of my old inventory pictures. I think it was Lionel's first set that included the TMCC controls.

Like several others have mentioned it is the only train I have that is weathered, And I have a lot of trains.

Like Mark said I just can't do it. lol

Thanks. It is also the only weathered set I have in my collection. Definitely unique and stands out.

I forgot to mention, my set is weathered a good bit more than yours, Sid.  As you mentioned, they were not all the same.

I have all 3 warhorse sets. For some strange reason, the add on car for the N&W J set was not weathered, nor did I buy that car but picked 4 more of the set cars. The SD40 set engine was not weathered but the cars and talking caboose were. Have no idea why Lionel did the set that way.

As for the Santa Fe warhorse set, that hudson has one of the whistle and bell and has a very good puffing smoke unit. I bought several of the add on car and looks better with more cars.

If anyone is looking for the Santa Fe warhorse add on car, email me in my profile as I think my friend has 4 of them that he wants to sell.

Ted 

The Lionel Warhorse Set was my first Lionel purchase. I ended up buying a second set and also 2 more (4 car sets from Charles Ro). The sounds were actually recorded from the 611. One of the Lionel Club magazines featured an article on it. 

After several years and getting bit by the scale bug I sold both sets and upgraded. Just recently I purchased my third J Warhorse set and it brings back great memories. I took a couple videos after I got it. 

https://youtu.be/Cam_gmDPtbc

https://youtu.be/BkbDdKvCiCg

Another memory was when I attended the sell off auction in Chesterfield, MI. Joe Grzyboski bought the whole lot of Warhorse Sets for $300 a piece. 

@N&W 1218 posted:

The Lionel Warhorse Set was my first Lionel purchase. I ended up buying a second set and also 2 more (4 car sets from Charles Ro). The sounds were actually recorded from the 611. One of the Lionel Club magazines featured an article on it. 

After several years and getting bit by the scale bug I sold both sets and upgraded. Just recently I purchased my third J Warhorse set and it brings back great memories. I took a couple videos after I got it. 

https://youtu.be/Cam_gmDPtbc

https://youtu.be/BkbDdKvCiCg

Another memory was when I attended the sell off auction in Chesterfield, MI. Joe Grzyboski bought the whole lot of Warhorse Sets for $300 a piece. 

That's a very cool story.

It is interesting to see the variations in Lionel's rendering of the "J" through the years. Kevin's second video comparing the "Warhorse" to a modern scale version was impressive.

MPC chose a glossy "like new" look for their model from the 1970's.

To add to N&W 1218 comment on sounds. I believe the article was in the LCCA Lion Roars.

I will look through my files to try to find it.

I remember it discussed how the Lionel sound engineers recorded the real J. They specifically mentioned the whistle echoing off the hills (I think in Ohio). 

Neil Young was inspired by a photo he had seen of an older J pulling a freight. Also, Neil was very interested in capturing real sounds for Railsounds.

He definitely accomplished it with the warhorse J sounds.

Jeff

@Jeff2035 posted:

To add to N&W 1218 comment on sounds. I believe the article was in the LCCA Lion Roars.

I will look through my files to try to find it.

I remember it discussed how the Lionel sound engineers recorded the real J. They specifically mentioned the whistle echoing off the hills (I think in Ohio). 

Neil Young was inspired by a photo he had seen of an older J pulling a freight. Also, Neil was very interested in capturing real sounds for Railsounds.

He definitely accomplished it with the warhorse J sounds.

Jeff

That's something I personally feel Lionel has lost. While it's trains sound good, not all of them have a recording of a real train and if they do, it has been modified to where it isn't a raw and powerful. Don't get me wrong, Lionel sounds today are great, but I feel these older models sometimes better.

I have all (3) sets. Back when the "J" set came out, I thought it was cool that Lionel included a TMCC controller in the box. The only set I have on display is the ATSF set. To me, that is my favorite as I really like the boxcars. It is displayed high on the wall above my engine service facilities. My shelf is only 6 feet long so I had to eliminate a boxcar in the lineup. I also picked up many of the add on cars as did others at shows. I always look for them and agree the ATSF set looks best pulling 8 or 9 boxcars.

In my opinion, another hit by Lionel before the age of Legacy.

Donald

Two thoughts on this set:

1. By the late 50’s, the J’s has been bumped to freight duties.... often with a brakeman doghouse added to the tender deck.

2.  In 1997 Lionel made the PRR Torpedo.  The newly cast tender for that engine was an enlarged version of the classic 2046 type used on the J’s.  In fact, that new in 1997 tender would be a perfect size-match for the postwar J casting.  Lionel must’ve had that planned, as the new tender had “746RS” cast into it, where “LIONEL” was cast on the smaller one a year before.

Jon

Always good to read 11909 threads.  I slightly modified the tender to close the gap.  Charlie Ro was blowing out the hoppers one year at the Big E so we added 4 more cars to the set.  It's like the missing link between postwar and modern technology (well, 1990's technology).   RICH

To add to my previous story. Right after Lionel started releasing their electrocouplers, I of course added one to both of my tenders. I also drilled a hole and added a backup light. All of the electronics connections were there. 
I also got brave one day and decided to cut and file a slot in the front nose of the J and I managed to retrofit an electrocoupler on the front of the engine. This gave me front and rear couplers on one J and I was able to doublehead them together pulling a long coal hopper train. I also took a Erie Bay Window caboose with “caboose talk” and swapped the guts out to put in one of my N&W Warhorse cabooses. That’s the sole surviving piece of my original set. Pretty cool it has a red flashing light on the rear and electrocouplers on both ends and sounds with interior lighting. Quite a bit for 1997. 

@N&W 1218 posted:

To add to my previous story. Right after Lionel started releasing their electrocouplers, I of course added one to both of my tenders. I also drilled a hole and added a backup light. All of the electronics connections were there. 
I also got brave one day and decided to cut and file a slot in the front nose of the J and I managed to retrofit an electrocoupler on the front of the engine. This gave me front and rear couplers on one J and I was able to doublehead them together pulling a long coal hopper train. I also took a Erie Bay Window caboose with “caboose talk” and swapped the guts out to put in one of my N&W Warhorse cabooses. That’s the sole surviving piece of my original set. Pretty cool it has a red flashing light on the rear and electrocouplers on both ends and sounds with interior lighting. Quite a bit for 1997. 

Nice addition with the backup light. Really enjoy these threads about the older Lionel items like this. The Lionel 18040 J is also a good looking unit. Very nice finish. Not weathered. Good RailSounds, too, but no TMCC. I'm thinking about picking one up, and adding a ERR unit, if Lionel doesn't come through with a LionChief J pretty soon.

I have two of those "Caboose talk" TMCC bay window cabooses, the Santa Fe and Pennsylvania versions. Lionel didn't make many of these. It's surprising you don't hear more about them, because they're really nifty items, with the ability to do back and forth crew talk with engines, and other sounds. Add to that the additional tool boxes hanging down between the trucks, the rear flashing warning lights and electrocouplers, as you say, and the red marker lights, and they're very nice pieces, and a lot of fun to operate. 

@breezinup posted:

Who did the conversion (or did you do it yourself)?

I'm hoping that at some point Lionel will do the J in the LionChief + line. I really wish they would have done one in the LionMaster line, but at this point that's probably unlikely.

I sent the stock motor to Timko and he sent me back a can motor with a flywheel, motor mount and the stock gear modified and attached. 

For the electronics, I did that part of it. 

@Jeff2035 posted:

To add to N&W 1218 comment on sounds. I believe the article was in the LCCA Lion Roars.

I will look through my files to try to find it.

I remember it discussed how the Lionel sound engineers recorded the real J. They specifically mentioned the whistle echoing off the hills (I think in Ohio). 

Neil Young was inspired by a photo he had seen of an older J pulling a freight. Also, Neil was very interested in capturing real sounds for Railsounds.

He definitely accomplished it with the warhorse J sounds.

Jeff

I have the paper copy around here.