tinplate caboose questions

since you're looking at Flyer,

I don't have either of these, so I can't say how they will match up with the 2816.

I think the flyer cabooses shown above will be rather small.  Additionally then I still have to deal with coupler compatibility.  The 2816 hopper have high mounted box couplers.

Here is a comparison of the Flyer 3211 caboose and the Lionel 2817

I'm not sure why the photo is cut off.

The size of the Flyer side dump car is 91/2 inches as is the Flyer caboose.  This is a visual comparison of the Lionel hopper and the side dumping car.

The hopper is packed away at the moment so I can't post a photo of the Flyer caboose and the Lionel hopper side by side until I find the hopper.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Wow - thanks Greg.  Looks like that AF 3211 is pretty much what I was looking for in terms of size/style. Also looks like the flyer coupler mounting rivet could be drilled out to install a box coupler.  I supposed after that adding a light would be up to me

3211 cabeese are illuminated.  3201s are not.  These cabeese are narrower but taller than the 817/2817.  You might look at the 1722/2722 caboose Lionel made late in prewar years.

JHZ563,

   The original 817 Red Caboose has always looked great to me.  

PCRR/Dave

Original Lionel Red with Black base 817 Caboose next to the 2800 series Brown & Red with black base MTH Repro Caboose, ride the end of this work train consist.

Really like the Lionel original colors on this early 817 Caboose also.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

JHZ563,

   The original 817 Red Caboose has always looked great to me.  

PCRR/Dave

Purr/Dave,

 I appreciate your input.  While the overall size looks right, the cupola size compared to the rest of the car body and the tiny window slits just look wrong to me, even for what is an outright toy.

Conversly if you look at the plastic caboose in the foreground of your picture the cupola windows and side windows are a similar size. Additionally there are no windows under the cupola, which is how it would be. I can accept suspension of belief to play with toy trains, but the 817 caboose just looks wrong to me.

JHZ563,

   The Tin 817 was made in early 1900's, the K-line Coca Cola Caboose was made in 1959.

I will take the Tin Plate over the plastic 100% of the time.  If you like the more realistic 3211 Flyer, you can always purchase one, change the Trucks & Couplers on her, and run the 3211 Flyer Caboose with your Lionel consist.  It will look pretty neat.  I always liked them myself and have often wanted to do it.  If I finally find one in absolutely perfect condition, it will probably happen.

I have a custom made Flyer Mini Crane in Front of my Lionel Consist most of the time.  Of course my layouts are designed to be a child like fantasy Train world.  Right down to the Bear Christmas Tree.  We do realism very sparingly in our Christmas Train Room, the 817 Lionel originals fit right in.

PCRR/Dave

I like my 817 too...  I don't actually have an 817.  I do like my 657, but even on that the cupola is somewhat squat compared to the rest of the body. It looks great with the smaller cars but just doesn't match up with the 2816 hoppers.

I just want something that has more consistent proportions for the train I'm building.  I am going to have to actually get to a few shows and keep an eye out for a nice AF example.

JHZ, to be picky  there is no 817 in that pic. its a 657/2657, a smaller piece.  

I always thought that the cupola looked squashed as well .....The 817 is surely copied/modeled for a northeastern railroad prototype.

Rob English posted:

JHZ, to be picky  there is no 817 in that pic. its a 657/2657, a smaller piece.  

I always thought that the cupola looked squashed as well .....The 817 is surely copied/modeled for a northeastern railroad prototype.

You are absolutely correct - my complete goof.  I have been looking at so many tinplate caboose pictures lately I got messed up.

JHZ,

  I see a freight set on eBay right now that has a 263e loco and the 2817 caboose, so it seems that they would be "correct" together.

  The choice is yours though and let us know what you decide. Many of the original prewar cabeese had some squat cupolas...

  If not following "any rules" I like the looks of these...

Tom  

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Here is a comparison of the Flyer 3211 caboose and the Lionel 2817

This is surprising. The AF caboose buried somewhere in my pile seems like it would be much larger than this. Did they make the same style caboose in two sizes? They made a lot of other freight cars in two sizes.

RoyBoy,

In the O gauge American Flyer line there are a number of different cabooses; however the one paired with the Lionel caboose above is the largest at 9 1/2 inches. The others come in around 6 inches.

Of course Flyer also made a caboose for the Wide Gauge line that is very similar to the 9 1/2 inch version.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg,

I have this American Flyer (3017?) caboose; it does not have any ladders or railing. Was  there a version made that way or are these just missing?

Regards

Fred

Fred,

Your caboose is actually a #232.  Gilbert gave new numbers to the old Chicago Flyer designed cars.  The sheet metal knuckle couplers indicate that it is from 1939.  Your caboose is missing its brass ladder and railings. 

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Fred,

Your caboose is actually a #232.  Gilbert gave new numbers to the old Chicago Flyer designed cars.  The sheet metal knuckle couplers indicate that it is from 1939.  Your caboose is missing its brass ladder and railings. 

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

I think the curly que couplers are 1938. 1939 was the first year of the link couplers.

Good comparison Greg.  I think that in addition to the size difference, the reds may clash depending on the variation chosen (both the hopper (4 distinct red shades) and the caboose ( the 3211 has at least 2 shades).  Most of the time we wouldn't notice but when you put them together.....

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

Fred,

Your caboose is actually a #232.  Gilbert gave new numbers to the old Chicago Flyer designed cars.  The sheet metal knuckle couplers indicate that it is from 1939.  Your caboose is missing its brass ladder and railings. 

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg,

Thank you,

Fred