TIU Connection Problems on large layout.

How often do you have feeders to the tracks?  I think they recommend one about every 10 track joints, or so.  I know that is what I did when I wired mine.  I went from TIU to one terminal block, then all my feeders to the track.

Tony H posted:

How often do you have feeders to the tracks?  I think they recommend one about every 10 track joints, or so.  I know that is what I did when I wired mine.  I went from TIU to one terminal block, then all my feeders to the track.

 

I drop a power feed every 8 ft except in my corners where I put a feed at the start middle and end of the curve so my older lionel engines with no speed control have consistent speed around corners. I also should say I use Atlas O track

Not sure if having multiple terminal blocks for just one TIU output is an issue.  I used one terminal block for the hot and one for the common, that way I could have 19 feeders, not and common go to the tracks.  My layout is about 26x18.  I get 9 or 10s all around the layout.   

Not sure if you have Barry’s B DCS companion book, it is a tremendous resource.  

Tony H posted:

Not sure if having multiple terminal blocks for just one TIU output is an issue.  I used one terminal block for the hot and one for the common, that way I could have 19 feeders, not and common go to the tracks.  My layout is about 26x18.  I get 9 or 10s all around the layout.   

Not sure if you have Barry’s B DCS companion book, it is a tremendous resource.  

I will look into getting the book thank you

Do you have your center rails isolated with each block?   You should use an output from the tiu to each terminal block and jumper the transformer input to two tiu inputs

Each pair of wires going from your terminal block to your track should go to one isolated section of track (block).  If you are running multiple pairs of wires to track that is connected to each other you will have signal issues.

bluelinec4 posted:

Do you have your center rails isolated with each block?   You should use an output from the tiu to each terminal block and jumper the transformer input to two tiu inputs

WHAT bluelinec4 SAID - isolate/insulated the center rails about every 10-12 feet.

Use Atlas#6093 on the center rail joint at the start and end of each block. 

I am a fan of placing the drop at the start of one end of block and keeping the pattern all the around.

How are you connecting the power feeds to the rails?

Moonman posted:

bluelinec4 posted:

Do you have your center rails isolated with each block?   You should use an output from the tiu to each terminal block and jumper the transformer input to two tiu inputs

WHAT bluelinec4 SAID - isolate/insulated the center rails about every 10-12 feet.

Use Atlas#6093 on the center rail joint at the start and end of each block. 

I am a fan of placing the drop at the start of one end of block and keeping the pattern all the around.

How are you connecting the power feeds to the rails?

I use the plastic joiners already and I use the atlas terminal joiners to feed the rails

Are there any switches? I have not used Atlas track, are the two outer rails both connected to common? What engines?

BobbyD posted:

Are there any switches? I have not used Atlas track, are the two outer rails both connected to common? What engines?

I do not have any switches on the short line I have right now, and only 1 outer rail is connected to common which is standard for atlas. I make sure to always use the same outer rail when dropping feeders. 

acrking76 posted:

I have about a 35 foot long layout with my TIU placed around the center of it and 2 large wires going off to each ends where there is 2 terminal blocks that go off to the tracks. I am scoring 1-4 on the Track Signal test that Ps2 and Ps3 engines have, I am pretty sure this has something to do with my wiring of the terminal blocks. I have check the individual wires and am pretty sure the problem is the long wires from the main terminal and the terminals themselves not distributing the connection properly.

Photos of the terminals are attached, they have few wires in them because i currently only have a single track down but I plan to have 3 main lines once I figure out my wiring connection problems.

Also, My Lionel engines work fine with no connection issues, and I am planning to try and get MTH terminal blocks and see if they distribute the connection properly.

I use Atlas O track.

Even without individual track blocks, your signal strength should be higher than 1-4, if the track is wired properly.

Based on your own comments, the terminal strips you have may, indeed, be wired incorrectly. I find using the MTH terminal blocks to be very easy to use. Just run your TIU output to the black and red posts on the MTH terminal block and then run pairs of wires from each numbered port to your track drops. Hopefully, this will straighten it out and you can then create individual track blocks, if you find it is necessary. Unless you have a very large run, I would use 14 gauge wire from the TIU to the MTH block and then 16 gauge to the track.

The MTH terminal blocks come in both 12 and 24 port models.

So, I am thinking if you have a loop with O72 curves and straights on a 35' long table it is about 75 feet of track.

You should have about 10 pairs of feeders.

Run the transformer to a terminal block at 11 feet from end. From the run 5 pair of feeder to five blocks for half of the loop. 

So much for distribution plans - try this for me - with a jumper connect both outside rails and test the signal strength on the engine that you have using.

What kind of readings do you get?

So a bit of an update I rewired the terminal and still the same horrible track signal but now my DCS remote freezes when I try to run an engine on the low connection area(which is 95% of the track I have layed atm) it completely freezes up and the engine loops the command like if I blow the horn the remote completely freezes and the horn continues to blow I have honestly not a single clue how low connection could do that to the remote, the remote runs perfectly fine on the area where the trains have good connection though

They make jumpers for the barrier terminals - in lieu of those just jumper a group - say 5 and tap with TXFMR leads on one side and tracks feeds out the other.

You can use a piece 16 awg or 18 awg to loop from screw to screw.

It appears that you have a 10 position terminal from the photo

The hot TXFMR feed should have been red for illustrative purposes and been labeled TIU OUT

Maybe I missed something here?

What version is your TIU? Version L or older? If older do you have lights or filters attached to the blocks?

Are you removing all TMCC products and any lighted cars from the rails for the signal test?

Have you tested your TIU on a single piece of short track with a single engine for signal strength?

It sounds like your are jumping in too deep all at once and not troubleshooting correctly. I do not know your history though.

If your connections at the rails aren't perfect, you can loose power. Generally speaking, if the power dips enough, the DCS signal will suffer. I did read about your Lionel engines running. I'm thinking it maybe your track connections still. Maybe you could try soldering at least one connection as a test to see if things improve.

What gauge wire is at the rail connection?

How many DCS engines are on the same TIU channel?

What is your power supply?

 You have got a lot of good suggestions. If the track signal is that bad. I would start with the basics. Breaking down the layout into blocks and getting one block working with at least a 9 for a signal. Then move on to another one by reattaching the wires.  The outside rail is important for a return path for the signal. I believe in connecting the rails with a jumper wire or alternating the outside rail in every other block. No insulating pins needed  on the outside rails between blocks.

 Not familiar with the Atlas pre wire rail joiners. I believe in 12 gauge wire from the TIU and at least 16 gauge going from the terminal strip to the track. I use Gargraves track. If I went Atlas. I’d solder feeder wires directly to the rails and probably solder smaller jumper wires from one rail to another. I do tend to overbuild things. My layout is fairly large and uses Buss wiring. Works just fine even though it’s not recommended. Every 3 ft. section is wired with feeders going to a buss wire. The layout is blocked. 

Just how old is your Atlas track ?  Is it a recent purchase or have you been buying it over the years and stockpiling it. The earlier track had a thick coating of blackening on the center rail that really effected the DCS signal. The recommended method was using a Scotchbrite pad to remove it.

Dave_C posted:

 No insulating pins needed  on the outside rails between blocks.

I had a disagreement with Barry B over this. On a larger layout (my 2 rail G scale) I found that the outer (-) rails also needed to be broken up. It was on a certain DCS release and the remote would slow down and wait for engine's replies in large consists outback on my RR. It's cause, I am not certain of. It may even have been from wet ballast, corroded wiring, etc., messing things up?

 I can't say for certain that this is needed on 3 rail. It's such an easy wiring difference that I just do it on any large layout I build now. I am thinking it was a work around for a certain fault in the DCS software in that particular release.

 I bet Ben who posted above would have the best experience on this for 3 rail.

Engineer-Joe posted:

Maybe I missed something here?

What version is your TIU? Version L or older? If older do you have lights or filters attached to the blocks?

Are you removing all TMCC products and any lighted cars from the rails for the signal test?

Have you tested your TIU on a single piece of short track with a single engine for signal strength?

It sounds like your are jumping in too deep all at once and not troubleshooting correctly. I do not know your history though.

Okay so this right here, I have a lionel Vision Line Big Boy that I like to keep on the tracks just cause it looks cool and its fun to run on the short line I have in between working on the layout. I took the Big Boy off and am now getting 10s and 9s on the entire line of track. I am not sure what this means, can I not run my lionel engines or have them on the track when running DCS? My TIU is a rev L, and I have tested it on a single piece of track, my power comes from a single Lionel Powerhouse 180 but I am getting a Z4000. The gauge wire is the regular atlas terminal track joiners 

 these ones

I have been testing the signal with 3 different engines, A PS3 Veranda Turbine, a Ps2 Rs-3, and a Ps2 Gp38-2, I have tested max 2 at once but usually use the Veranda.