TIU no power through fixed 2 after spark

acrking76 posted:

I was testing an engine on the track that fixed 2 is connected to (only power connected at the time except for aux on TIU) and the engine stopped and I heard what sounded like a spark coming not from the track but the TIU which was behind me, the track had lost power but the breaker on my Lionel Powerhouse 180 had not been tripped, the engine was not derailed and Fixed 2 has seemingly stopped working altogether, all other terminals work fine. I am not sure if the TIU has a breaker to reset or fuses.  

Obviously open to check fuses.  Happened to me once.  Hope it is that easy.

they have fuses there are 4 inside if I remember right .look at the yellow blocks I believe they are the fuses. take out and check with vom meter. you can usually look on the top and can see if the fuse is blown look at all four you should see the bad one if it is blown.

1. 

Looks like your TIU is open. Bryant is right, next step is to check the fuses. I shagged this off of the 'ol innerweb. The fuses are circled in the picture.

Thank you all very much, the fuse for Fixed 2 was blown, I am very glad it wasnt something much more serious 

acrking76 posted:

Thank you all very much, the fuse for Fixed 2 was blown, I am very glad it wasnt something much more serious 

That spark you saw probably fed down the TIU output and the fuse served its purpose and saved you from "Gunrunner John stuff" type of grief.  You were fortunate as I was.  Able to identify the problem and fix it yourself.  That is one of the great values in having great forum members helping each other with many years of diverse experience.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

acrking76 posted:

Thank you all very much, the fuse for Fixed 2 was blown, I am very glad it wasnt something much more serious 

That spark you saw probably fed down the TIU output and the fuse served its purpose and saved you from "Gunrunner John stuff" type of grief.  You were fortunate as I was.  Able to identify the problem and fix it yourself.  That is one of the great values in having great forum members helping each other with many years of diverse experience.

Do you know what could have caused this? The powerhouse 180s have breakers on them that trigger when a train derails, but I have never had the TIU do anything especially with the train not derailing at all

You might want to consider fast acting fuses between the track and the TIU.  Much cheaper than repairing the TIU.

Danr posted:

You might want to consider fast acting fuses between the track and the TIU.  Much cheaper than repairing the TIU.

You could have been fiddling with something and shorted the red and black output.  No telling.  Without protection like fuses, it would eventually have gone down to the transformer causing it to trip.  Just did not make it down that far as it had to cross the TIU fuse.

For what it is worth, consider it a fluke until it happens again.  The most it will cost you is a new TIU fuse.  Then you would have to dig if you take out another.

your actually lucky because sometime when there is a train on the track and you get a short or spark you damage or blow the train ps2 or 3 boards get damaged or totally blown !if you only had a tiu problem you really lucked out!

It's a bit odd that the fuse blew if you are powering the channel with the Lionel PH180.  That has a very fast and sensitive electronic circuit breaker, and it's unusual for a 20A fuse to beat that breaker.

One wonders if the TVS on that channel is about to cash in.

I would check out the breaker on that PH180 to make sure it works. 

Joe Allen posted:

I would check out the breaker on that PH180 to make sure it works. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's a bit odd that the fuse blew if you are powering the channel with the Lionel PH180.  That has a very fast and sensitive electronic circuit breaker, and it's unusual for a 20A fuse to beat that breaker.

One wonders if the TVS on that channel is about to cash in.

I Just checked it and it tripped fine, I misspoke when I said it was a PH180 the one I have on the track that tripped is a lionel PH-1 135 watt power supply but I just tested it and the breaker tripped just like on my other PH180's

Mystery solved!  The PH135 uses and ordinary thermal breaker and they're pretty slow to react.  Those will easily blow the 20A fuse first on a direct short.  The PH135 and PH180 are totally different designs, I stick with the PH180 models as they're a much better choice.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Mystery solved!  The PH135 uses and ordinary thermal breaker and they're pretty slow to react.  Those will easily blow the 20A fuse first on a direct short.  The PH135 and PH180 are totally different designs, I stick with the PH180 models as they're a much better choice.

ah, is there anything I can do to use my PH135 with the TIU without it blowing the 20A fuse?

Add a better circuit breaker or replace it with the PH180.

So UPDATE I have a new fuse in the fixed 2 slot (I took it off an older TIU that I had) and I also changed the power over to a PH180, and now when I turn the 180 on it immediately triggers the 180s breaker, even when I dont have any wires from fixed 2 going to track, I am not sure if this means that the fixed 2 port is now unusable, or if the fuse from the older TIU is incompatible. 

That almost surely means the TVS in that channel has shorted.  That may have been the original issue in the first place, but the breaker of the PH135 simply didn't trip in time to save the 20A fuse.

This is a fairly easily repaired problem.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That almost surely means the TVS in that channel has shorted.  That may have been the original issue in the first place, but the breaker of the PH135 simply didn't trip in time to save the 20A fuse.

This is a fairly easily repaired problem.

is this something I can repair on my own? if so how would I go about doing this

Well, the part you need is: 1500W 33.3V TVS at Digikey.  It is possible to replace those without removing the board, but it's easier to remove the board at times.  Note that if you don't have decent soldering skills and tools, you could end up wrecking the board, that would make it an expensive repair.