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On a  Rev L (Ver 5.0)  TIU  both Variable Channels are being used to power alternate power districts on a loop of track.  Each track district is isolated from the others with only a single DCS input to that district.  Each channel draws power from one side of  a Z-4000.    DCS works fine on the entire loop ; however,  while conventional operators can control voltage to both districts using the handheld they cannot control Whistle, Bell and Direction in district powered by 2nd TIU variable channel.   The "All" Variable Channels option was used to program the Handheld.  Thanks. 

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Make certain that there are TIU Tracks set up for each variable channel. From page 130 of The DCS Com[anion 3rd Edition:

Creating TIU Tracks on Variable Channels

TIU Tracks are created to allow the DCS operator to vary the voltage to the tracks through the TIU's Variable Channels. TIU Tracks are created as follows:

• Press the Menu key to enter the DCS menus.

• Scroll the thumbwheel to SYSTEM and press the thumbwheel to select it.

• Scroll the thumbwheel to TRACK SETUP and press the thumbwheel to select it.

• Scroll to ADD TRACK and press the thumbwheel to select it.

• Scroll to ADD TIU TRACK and press the thumbwheel to select it.

• A list of available TIUs is displayed. Use the thumbwheel to scroll to the TIU for which a TIU Track is to be created and press the thumbwheel to select it.

• Use the thumbwheel to scroll to the Variable Channel for which the TIU Track is to be created, either Variable 1 or Variable 2, and press the thumbwheel to select it.

• Use the on-screen keyboard to enter the name of the TIU Track for that Variable Channel. Scroll the thumbwheel to each character in the name and press the thumbwheel to add the character. Press < to delete a character entered in error. Scroll to D on the bottom row, right end of the keyboard to save the track's name and be returned to the TRACK SETUP menu.


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Last edited by Barry Broskowitz

 DCS works fine on the entire loop ; however,  while conventional operators can control voltage to both districts using the handheld they cannot control Whistle, Bell and Direction in district powered by 2nd TIU variable channel.   The "All" Variable Channels option was used to program the Handheld.  Thanks. 

These were my findings as well  years ago and I finally just gave up.... Operator error????  I not so sure now.

Barry,  

We have the 3rd Edition and followed those same instructions.  

We have only a single TIU and used the "ALL" option when creating TIU tracks.  We set the MTV value and that value works in both power districts as does the TZV to immediately cut power to the district.  Everything seems to work yet only  one TIU channel allows use of the Bell, Whistle, and DIR controls.  As a test we changed the input and output wires to the opposite TIU channels and the power districts then reversed characteristics to allow Whistle, Bell and Directional control in the opposite power district as before we reversed the wires.  

 If we select "ALL" is it then necessary to create and name each TIU track?  Is each power district considered to be a separate TIU track ?   Does the MTV value impact on DCS operations?  To prevent a conventional engine from "bolting" when the Thumb Wheel is first advanced we set the MTV value at 10 volts.  We assumed that before operating DCS we would have to re-set the MTV to 18 volts or more.  

Thanks for your help. 

 

We have only a single TIU and used the "ALL" option when creating TIU tracks.

Actually, you did not create any TIU Tracks in that way because that doesn't create TIU Tracks, rather, it's a method of controlling mulltipler TIU Tracks using a single throttle and functions.

You must create all of your TIU Tracks as I previously described, before using the "ALL TIU Tracks" method of controlling them.

Barry,If we didn't create any TIU tracks then why does it work in the one power district "as advertised"?  I am at home now using my personal controller to create TIU tracks  to see the screen prompts.. At the club we attempted to create TIU tracks using the System Menu. After that when we select "TR" the handheld screen will show  "TIU1  VAR1 , TIU1 VAR2, and the TIU tracks we created "AA" and "BB".   We then selected "ALL". At home  after  I select "ALL" I arrive at a screen showing "ALL TIU TRACKS" , a voltage value (from the Transformer?) and softkeys "TSV". "TZV" and "MSV".  I can then set the MSV value to 10 volts which is what we did at the club.   At the club when we place a voltmeter measuring AC on the track it shows the same  MSV value in both power districts as set on the handheld.   Anyway, I will return to the club tomorrow and work on the problem with my fellow members.  Our next step will be to bring another TIU to see if that changes anything, then repeat the process.  Thanks for your help. 

Hello Barry,

Yes both the controller(s) and the TIU(s) have version 5.0.  Is there any other way to verify that other than when you turn on the controller?    I mentioned I will update them to 6.0.    What is so baffling is that everything works except for the ability of the operator to perform the normal transformer functions (Whistle, Bell, and Direction) from the remote in one of the power districts.   The track voltage responds in both districts to the controller input (verified with meter), and the engine will respond to the MTV, TSV and TZV soft key input.  In the other power district (which uses the other TIU variable channel) everything works.  If you reverse the input and output wires the power districts respond accordingly with only one having complete traditional engine control.     Also, DCS works fine through all TIU Fixed and Variable Channels . Thanks for your help. 

Let me explain further...... TIU track "A" using variable channel 1 works as does TIU track "B" using variable channel 2.  If you operate the engine in the power district powered by variable channel 1 and choose TIU track "A" on the handheld it works.  As you move into the other power district powered through variable channel 2 and then change the handheld to TIU track "B" it works.  However, if you select "ALL" TIU channels only TIU track "A"  will work but only in the power district powered through variable channel 1.   When under "All" The engine will run through both power districts but when it is  in the district powered by variable channel 2 you cannot use the Bell, Whistle or Direction control under option "All". .  

49th State posted:

Let me explain further...... TIU track "A" using variable channel 1 works as does TIU track "B" using variable channel 2.  If you operate the engine in the power district powered by variable channel 1 and choose TIU track "A" on the handheld it works.  As you move into the other power district powered through variable channel 2 and then change the handheld to TIU track "B" it works.  However, if you select "ALL" TIU channels only TIU track "A"  will work but only in the power district powered through variable channel 1.   When under "All" The engine will run through both power districts but when it is  in the district powered by variable channel 2 you cannot use the Bell, Whistle or Direction control under option "All". .  

 My findings as well years ago  using a postwar ZW.....Barry have you tried this with an older Lionel transformer and not a Z-4000. We can vary the voltage but dir bell etc only works on one channel.

Greg,

Thanks. We are using a Z-4000.  We tried to set up Z4K tracks (with the transformer attachment). and seem to be seeing the same problem.  We have a "fail safe" because we can change the variable channels to fixed channels and operate conventional engines using the transformer handles; however, that precludes use of the handheld controller. 

our club members don't all own Command Control locomotives so that is not an option. 

I wasn't suggesting that at all. Each to his own.

If its all possible, I'd suggest trying two things in an attempt to obtain additional data points:

  • Attempt to replicate the problem on a different layout.
  • Implement DCS WiFi and see if the problem exists there, as well. If it does not, the culprit may well be a long-standing bug in the remote code.

Neither option is possible because this layout loop is about 200 feet long with alternate power districts as described.  Also, we have invested in DCS  (and a TMCC interface) now to the point where WiFi won't be possible for some time (not including the requirement for many of us to purchase new phones as I understand that requirement).   If this is a software problem who positively identifies and  resolves  this issues in what time frame?  As I stated DCS works over the entire layout; therefore, for now  we can set the variable channels to "fixed"  and operate conventional engines from the transformers on that loop of the layout when necessary.  Thanks again. 

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