TMCC/Legacy Track Signal Booster (Dale's Legacy Continues)

For what should be obvious reasons, I wouldn't use the exact same name that he used, I have no idea if his family would take exception to that.  I certainly don't mind giving Dale a lion's share of the credit for the buffer as it's really his baby, just don't know the ramifications of using the exact name he used.

John,

     Thank you for working to complete the buffer and for being humble enough to give credit to Dale for what he had accomplished. Folks like the two of you make this hobby what it is.

Ray

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

John, is it possible to ask permission from his family? Using the original name would be a great tribute.

I guess it's possible, but I'm not sure who I'd ask.  I'd hate to get bogged down in something as simple as a name and have that consume more time that the project.

Yep, as I said before, once all the testing is complete and I have 100% confidence in the final design, I'll contact everyone that expressed interest in the buffer.  By the time I get back from York, I hope to have samples of the "final" board, so I'll be assembling a couple of those for the testing to insure all is well and we didn't screw something up in the process.

gunrunnerjohn posted:
Big_Boy_4005 posted:

John, is it possible to ask permission from his family? Using the original name would be a great tribute.

I guess it's possible, but I'm not sure who I'd ask.  I'd hate to get bogged down in something as simple as a name and have that consume more time that the project.

I hear ya. Case of sleeping dogs as it were.

How about Dale's TMCC/Legacy signal booster by: (you fill in the blank as to how you want to take your credit).

FWIW, I like the naming idea using Dale in there somewhere. I wouldn't think something like AlanRail suggested DM Booster or similar would cause any problems. It would be like an 'In Memory Of' type name. However, naming it Manco or something like that using what Dale used for his products could cause a problem I would think. He may have that name as his company or trademarked or however one IDs their products. 

IMODM... In Memory of Dale Manquen maybe or just back to the DM Booster... ??? I don't see how naming something in memory of would cause a problem? But I am no legal authority either.

Just some food for thought. And I think it's a good thought about Dale too.

Cleaning up some old files I found a diagram for a "TMCC SIGNAL BOOSTER" .... from a long time ago.  Wonder if it was one of Dale's early diagrams ... did someone else come up with a booster design?  I'll have to go to the pile and see if it has a date on it ...

Kerrigan posted:

Cleaning up some old files I found a diagram for a "TMCC SIGNAL BOOSTER" .... from a long time ago.  Wonder if it was one of Dale's early diagrams ... did someone else come up with a booster design?  I'll have to go to the pile and see if it has a date on it ...

I remember a tube design posted on the forum...I’m not remembering who’s it was.

Chuck TCA LCCA ARRL BMWMOA

I think the NJ-HR club is running on a tube version that was put together some time back, perhaps John's club has the same design.  I thought I had the schematic of it, but I can't seem to find it now.

Finding tubes for my old 1930's radios is bad enough, my stepdad dealt with them while working as an instrument tech for A Nuclear facility, he did well, 30 years they have worked better than some old transistor radios we found in moving and actually fit the décor heading into my train room.

Paradise & Pacific Railroad

PennsyTurbine posted:

Here is Dale's Vacuum Tube booster amp schematic, parts list and the datasheets for the tubes.

Glenn

Thank you ever so much for posting that.

Except for the LED, that is a 1955  design if I ever saw one! Wonder what prompted him to do it that way?

Are you sure this is Dale's design?  I agree with PLCPROF, what prompted him to do with 1950's parts?   With the LED pilot light, I really wonder about the 6X4 rectifier, surely the solid state replacement was more than available by then!

Thanks for posting it, it was 99% curiosity, I don't know what happened to the stuff I had about this.  I maintain my position, I'm going to stick with the solid state version!   I'm not sure the two tubes would even fit in my current enclosure, and I'm almost sure they'd melt it!   I know that 5" piece of 1" PVC would NOT fit into my enclosure!   That transformer is no piker either, it's a chunk of metal!

You can read Dale's own words on why he used the tubes for his initial design.

"I started out designing a solid state amp, but quite frankly I got lazy.  I thought that Jim's circuit would allow me to determine just what problems I need to address."

Dale had a design from Jim Lefevre which he used as an initial starting point.

He did replace the 6X4 tube with solid state. The 6X4 was Jim's design.

Dale's goal was to use the vacuum tube design, do some testing and then design the solid state version.

You can read Dale's design thoughts in the attached PDF.

Glenn

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On Dale's website he talks about the Vacuum Tube design

http://www.trainfacts.com/trainfacts/?p=486

"UPDATE 5/8/13

I have built a booster amplifier based upon the vacuum tube design of Jim Lefevre, adding a few embellishments of my own.  I hope to test the amp on some large layouts in the near future."

Dale posted the Vacuum Tube schematic on the OGR forum in May 2013.

Glenn

PLCProf posted:

I'd love to see the tube version, either the schematic or the real thing. You could probably build one with nothing but the parts from an old AA5, for you radio guys out there.

Just morbid curiosity. 

Here are some pics. I grabbed these off the forum when the topic was running a few years ago. Rich was not pleased to have this info on the forum, citing potential FCC violations arising from the unit. I saved all the particulars, in he event that it would get deleted. It got locked, but I believe it is still out there somewhere.

I believe the name you guys seek is Jim LeFevre. If I'm not mistaken, these are his photos. The date was 10/2/14.

IMG_3728IMG_3729IMG_3730IMG_3731

Of course, after working directly with Dale to help test his electronic version, It rendered the tube version moot.

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Dale brought his booster to Scottsdale not long before he passed, it was one of his final trips and I am glad I met him. It vastly improved our layout and we were bummed when we had to ship it to the NJ HR.

We are ecstatic that you are finishing his design John. I will be depositing money with you for 3 units at York. 

Ron

Paradise & Pacific Railroad

PennsyTurbine posted:

You can read Dale's own words on why he used the tubes for his initial design.

"I started out designing a solid state amp, but quite frankly I got lazy.  I thought that Jim's circuit would allow me to determine just what problems I need to address."

Dale had a design from Jim Lefevre which he used as an initial starting point.

He did replace the 6X4 tube with solid state. The 6X4 was Jim's design.

Dale's goal was to use the vacuum tube design, do some testing and then design the solid state version.

You can read Dale's design thoughts in the attached PDF.

Glenn

Thank you for the insightful comments. I had some questions, and you had the answers!

How about “THE BIG BOOST”,  a TMCC Signal performance  enhancer brought to you by, Gunnrunner John, designed by the late Dale Manquen, Another Manco product for the serious Lionel  TMCC/Legacy Operator.  I would think the product name should state what it does.  It does enhance signal performance. Yes, I want one to. Thanks for your hard work. Leapin Larry 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Are you sure this is Dale's design?  I agree with PLCPROF, what prompted him to do with 1950's parts?   With the LED pilot light, I really wonder about the 6X4 rectifier, surely the solid state replacement was more than available by then!

Thanks for posting it, it was 99% curiosity, I don't know what happened to the stuff I had about this.  I maintain my position, I'm going to stick with the solid state version!   I'm not sure the two tubes would even fit in my current enclosure, and I'm almost sure they'd melt it!   I know that 5" piece of 1" PVC would NOT fit into my enclosure!   That transformer is no piker either, it's a chunk of metal!

Those docs were put up by me.  Dale Didn't design it.  Jim Lefebrve (spelling?) did.  I found the plans on Google Groups and put the parts list together when we built it.  It works great and makes a world of difference on our layout but will be retired in favor of John (and Dales's) solid state buffer.    It cost about 3 x John's unit to put together and we'e gone through a couple of tubes to boot.     I put pics of it up further in this thread and the pics in the post a few above this are of our unit.

I'm sure hoping that the "new" TMCC booster doesn't go through any parts as it works!   However, the credits should read Dale Manquen, PLCProf, and John, all were instrumental in bringing the project to this state.

I thought I remembered someone else designed it and Dale was doing some experimenting and mods, thanks for publishing those original design pictures.

Around the time Dale passed away someone (here I think) posted some links to things he had been involved with over the years. It was pretty impressive!! He was in audio, tape recording I believe it was so maybe the reason for liking 'tubes' over solid state? Anyway I read some of the info and it was pretty amazing. Some of the things he had done were impressive and he was well respected in the field. 

Sorry, I don't remember the post or poster. However, if you do a google search on 'Dale Manquen' a lot of info comes up about his work in tape recording and audio, if anyone is interested. Most was over my head, but still interesting to read, IMO. I might be the only one here that did not know about this, but if not I thought some of you might want to do the search and see what all Dale had worked on during his career. Anyway, if anyone is interested try the search, I think it's well worth the time to read some of the articles.

Also not to stray from the topic of this thread, so no further comments please. Just thought others might be interested as I was and wanted to share this with anyone that, like me, did not know about Dale's work. 

Big_Boy_4005 posted:
PLCProf posted:

I'd love to see the tube version, either the schematic or the real thing. You could probably build one with nothing but the parts from an old AA5, for you radio guys out there.

Just morbid curiosity. 

Here are some pics. I grabbed these off the forum when the topic was running a few years ago. Rich was not pleased to have this info on the forum, citing potential FCC violations arising from the unit. I saved all the particulars, in he event that it would get deleted. It got locked, but I believe it is still out there somewhere.

I believe the name you guys seek is Jim LeFevre. If I'm not mistaken, these are his photos. The date was 10/2/14.

IMG_3728IMG_3729IMG_3730IMG_3731

Of course, after working directly with Dale to help test his electronic version, It rendered the tube version moot.

Yes, the PVC tube is part of the drawing.  Did it work?  Looking forward to the DM version.

Done guys. 

I also got the latest PCB in, after York I'll assemble up a "production" unit and see if I missed anything in the layout.  I have discovered it's a bit more difficult to get something that fits precisely into an enclosure with projections than just making a PCB.

Looks good, I have to mod the case and see if everything works.

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