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Good Morning,

Hope everyone will be off to church soon,

I have a small layout (no basement when living on the Gulf of Mexico) on an island table 7 x12.  I figure that since Biloxi is essentially on an island, my trains may as well be too. I sacrificed a larger layout to have plenty of aisle space for folks to move around the entire layout. 

I am a loop runner in order to accommodate as wide a radii as possible, and as many trains as possible - O72,  054, and 042 in good old Lionel tubular. I have found switches are just another name for trouble when running trains. If it were not so, there would not be so much discussion on the forums regarding switches. (A topic for another day. Hope you enjoy yours.)

If I do add in Standard Gauge track on the layout, how much spacing between the tubular tracks that I have down and the SG track would I need? I don't want to bump trains. Not sure if I sacrifice my 042 tubular that I can put 042 SG inside my 054 tubular and not bump trains.  I have a Hellgate bridge on the 054 and if I put down SG, I would want to move it to the SG track and that would mean an add'l  space requirement. I don't mind sacrificing the 042 tubular to get the 400E COMET running on the table and I definitely want to keep the 054 and 072. It would be iffy to enlarge the table in order to lay SG outside my 072. And will the Comet even run (effortlessly) on 042 SG, I know originally it was made to do so.

Of course if I put down SG track that would entice me to buy SG trains....or I can just leave the Comet in its display case.

Thanks for any insight.

Eddie

 

 

 

 

 

 

Original Post

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Eddie,

I have an approximate 8 x 20 layout and run 1 loop of standard gauge and 3 loops of O gauge.  I am running 72 inch radius Standard Gauge, with 1 straight section of track at the center of the curve, the a loop of 72 inch radius O gauge, a loop of 54 inch O gauge radius, and a loop of regular O gauge (whatever the standard radius is).  

As far as the spacing goes, I did not do anything special for spacing and found that the tracks spaced out well based on their respective radius curves.  I just checked the spacing at the front of the layout and I have about 5.5 inches between the loop of Standard and O gauge 72 inch radius and about 6 inches between the O gauge 72 inch and 54 inch radius.  I get much more space between the rails on the curves.  I did not check the spacing between the smaller radius and the 54 inch radius, but there is plenty of room there.

Here is a photo from just after the Standard Gauge, O-72 and O-54 track was installed.

Here is a photo with the smaller radius installed.  I did it as a dog-bone type loop, going behind the large Union Station.

Another shot from above

NWL

Last edited by Nation Wide Lines

Steve Eastman made his own five rail track, adding our ties and rails to track he already owned.  We currently have standard gauge ties and appropriate rails for adding to 0-42 and 0-72, and should have 0 gauge ties for adding to standard gauge track by the end of the year.  I'm not aware of anyone offering finished five rail track.

Check out the article at TinplateTimes.com on five rail track fabrication.

Kirk Lindvig, USA Track LLC

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER
SGMA1 posted:

Steve Eastman made his own five rail track, adding our ties and rails to track he already owned.  We currently have standard gauge ties and appropriate rails for adding to 0-42 and 0-72, and should have 0 gauge ties for adding to standard gauge track by the end of the year.  I'm not aware of anyone offering finished five rail track.

Check out the article at TinplateTimes.com on five rail track fabrication.

Kirk Lindvig, USA Track LLC



Glad to hear O ties are finally coming. I need to make some more panels for my 5 rail modules.

Steve

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER

Hi Steve,

Believe it or not, we are making progress on the 0 gauge ties!  Our 0 gauge tie tooling has been refurbished, the metal has been sheared to width and Joe Mania will allow us to use his press to stamp the ties.  We have also located someone to give the ties the black oxide finish we all like.  The only thing holding us up is time.  We are in the process of moving our shop, which means a lot of painting, wiring and installation of compressed air lines, all of which we are doing ourselves.  (Not to mention my first grandchild being born and Chris's son getting married!)  So, 0 gauge ties DEFINITELY this year, hopefully early this fall.

Kirk

USA Track LLC

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER

Steve and Kirk = thanks for the information on making my own 5 rail track. I just might do that !

Kirk - you mentioned O gauge ties may be coming, does this mean that O gauge track will follow ?

PHRANKENSTIGN - thanks for the encouragement about switches, I will re-evaluate my position. Its just in the past I had so many derailments, shorts, uncouples, unwanted dumps, etc that it turned me off. I was spending more time on frustration than just enjoying running my trains so I eliminated them and swore never again. 

 

The Gargraves standard gauge track uses 0-27 size rails rather than standard 0 size rails, which limits what trains can be run on it.

Rumor has it that Menuards is improving the quality of their traditional tubular 0 gauge track.  I recommend checking that out.  Tooling up to make 0 gauge track would be too expensive for USA Track to consider.  Plus, we are in the "business" of making track to promote Standard Gauge, not to make a profit (there is none).  I have too many other interests to spend time making 0 gauge track!

The Ross Custom Switches standard gauge switches were designed in consultation with a committee of SGMA members.  They feature a movable frog, and are very reliable.  Derailments are essentially nonexistent.  Expensive, but worth every penny.

Kirk Lindvig, USA Track LLC

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER

0 ga tube track is used for STD. The ties are the difference.

As a test. I used 0 ga 072 with STD 072 rails.  Difference. 0 ga rails are shorter.

I find using used ties a pain.  Much rather have the 0 ga ties made of plastic or wood. Cause it needs to be insulated. If you want to run independently. As for power just jumper the rails. 

HOPPY posted:

Just a quick question:  If I work with U.S.A. brand Std. ga. track, what is the length of their straight section?  Thanks.

The regular straights are 14" just like most prewar track. They also make 36" straights. They will custom cut special lengths upon request. For out 5 rail squares they made me a ton of  31.5" lengths.  http://lindvigs.com/usatrack/Our_Products.html

Steve

 

Nation Wide Lines posted:

You could always get some 5 rail standard gauge track and replace your..

72 inch radius track with the 5 rail Standard Gauge track. 

...That way you could run either Standard or O gauge on the 72 inch radius loop.

72" Diameter?   Radius is the "half" measurement.

72" radius 360° arc will form a 144" diameter/12 foot circle.  

Better note that before you order IC GULF you might end up oversized if you order custom.

   I wouldn't want the Og eclipsed by larger St.g while on the close side of the layout either. I use O between an outer loop of Super-O and an inner of 0-27 and wish constantly the tallest was the 0-27 for a stepped tier/birthday cake effect.

Hi IC Gulf,

What do your loops look like now? Any straights in the middle of the end curves? 

How long are the straights lengthwise? 

I tried some loops in SCARM software... I am thinking that the Comet would have to be the innermost or outermost train if you were running O and the STD Comet at the same time - visually- the smaller trains on the outside and the Comet on the innermost loop would look the best to my eye.

That is 3 O trains and 1 STD train running at the same time.

Although it would be a plus operationally to have larger diameter curves dedicated to the larger (Standard gauge) trains, visually having the smaller (0 gauge) trains on the outside loop is better.  I would suggest using our STD57 curves inside of a 0-72 loop, or our STD84 curves inside of a 0-96 loop.  STD42 curves are traditional, but operationally not so great.

 

Kirk Lindvig, USA Track LLC

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER
SGMA1 posted:

Although it would be a plus operationally to have larger diameter curves dedicated to the larger (Standard gauge) trains, visually having the smaller (0 gauge) trains on the outside loop is better.  I would suggest using our STD57 curves inside of a 0-72 loop, or our STD84 curves inside of a 0-96 loop.  STD42 curves are traditional, but operationally not so great.

 

Kirk Lindvig, USA Track LLC

www.standardgaugetrack.com

Kirk, 

I have to disagree with your recommendation to have the track loops for the smaller O gauge trains run outside the track loops for the larger Standard Gauge trains.  Rather, I would recommend installing the O gauge track loops inside the Standard Gauge track loops.  By doing this you build the concept of "forced perspective" into the layout's design. 

To the viewer, objects in the foreground naturally appear larger than those same objects located in the background.  Therefore, by running  Standard Gauge trains on the outside loops and O gauge trains on the inside loops you create the illusion of "depth" in a layout.  Your suggestion to run the loops for the O gauge trains outside of those for the Standard Gauge trains goes against the natural perspective that our minds are conditioned to see, i.e., objects in the foreground appear larger than those in the background. 

Optimally, to prevent the view of the smaller O gauge trains from being blocked by the larger Standard Gauge trains, the track loops for O gauge trains should ideally be located on elevated platform built inside the Standard Gauge loops.  This will ensure that the running of the Standard Gauge trains will never block the view of the O gauge trains.

Bob Nelson    

I will second what Bob said.  I would also think hard about the carnage that could result from a Standard-gauge loco hurtling off the rails on those sharp curves, maybe head-on into a smaller, more detailed O-gauge piece.  I would use a minimum of O72 for Standard gauge.  Centrifugal force is a force to be reckoned with!!

So many good concepts proposed here. Gives me pause to reflect on issues I had not thought of. Will need to mull this over before I commit to a plan of action. Wish there were many more photos out there illustrating these principals. We have so few railroad modelers here that I have to rely on this Forum and new found friends for advice in such endeavors. Thanks to everyone who has offered an opinion.

navy.seal posted:
SGMA1 posted:

Although it would be a plus operationally to have larger diameter curves dedicated to the larger (Standard gauge) trains, visually having the smaller (0 gauge) trains on the outside loop is better.  I would suggest using our STD57 curves inside of a 0-72 loop, or our STD84 curves inside of a 0-96 loop.  STD42 curves are traditional, but operationally not so great.

 

Kirk Lindvig, USA Track LLC

www.standardgaugetrack.com

Kirk, 

I have to disagree with your recommendation to have the track loops for the smaller O gauge trains run outside the track loops for the larger Standard Gauge trains.  Rather, I would recommend installing the O gauge track loops inside the Standard Gauge track loops.  By doing this you build the concept of "forced perspective" into the layout's design. 

To the viewer, objects in the foreground naturally appear larger than those same objects located in the background.  Therefore, by running  Standard Gauge trains on the outside loops and O gauge trains on the inside loops you create the illusion of "depth" in a layout.  Your suggestion to run the loops for the O gauge trains outside of those for the Standard Gauge trains goes against the natural perspective that our minds are conditioned to see, i.e., objects in the foreground appear larger than those in the background. 

Optimally, to prevent the view of the smaller O gauge trains from being blocked by the larger Standard Gauge trains, the track loops for O gauge trains should ideally be located on elevated platform built inside the Standard Gauge loops.  This will ensure that the running of the Standard Gauge trains will never block the view of the O gauge trains.

Bob Nelson    

Bob,

How high is a STD gauge engine? What is the height of the STD railhead?  

it would seem to me that one would have to build something close to an 8" - 10" wedding cake layer. 

The requirement to keep the three O loops doesn't permit the space needed to help the forced perspective like the photos of Nationwide Lines layout above.

O gauge on the outside means a much lower tier (for the first tier) to clear the  O gauge. A word about track spacing... putting the tracks 3.5" apart is too crowded aesthetically and frankly dangerous. Even a clip in standard gauge can be disastrous. After much hand wringing I came to a minimum SG-SG or SG-O spacing of 4.5" center to center on the straights and 7.5" on the curves -even with SG72 and SG84 curves.  I found that 6.5" would work for 385s, 392s, 400s, and brass pipers. But not for Lee lines SP daylight and Thon challenger.

A loopy loop layout needs some  "green space" for display IMHO. Its real easy to lose interest (like NASCAR) watching trains make all left turns. Flag poles, warning signs and buildings break up the monotony nicely... and you can avoid the dreaded "clip".

The center-to-center spacing of STD72 to STD84 curves is 6-3/16", and STD72 to STD87 is 7-1/4".  As Rob mentioned, most pre-war trains will clear on the closer spacing, but many modern era standard gauge trains will make contact.  USA Track LLC introduced STD87 curves to eliminate this problem, and STD87 curves are required on the outer loop of Standard Gauge Module Association (SGMA) modules.

Kirk

USA Track LLC



 

 

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER
SGMA1 posted:

Hi Steve,

Believe it or not, we are making progress on the 0 gauge ties!  Our 0 gauge tie tooling has been refurbished, the metal has been sheared to width and Joe Mania will allow us to use his press to stamp the ties.  We have also located someone to give the ties the black oxide finish we all like.  The only thing holding us up is time.  We are in the process of moving our shop, which means a lot of painting, wiring and installation of compressed air lines, all of which we are doing ourselves.  (Not to mention my first grandchild being born and Chris's son getting married!)  So, 0 gauge ties DEFINITELY this year, hopefully early this fall.

Kirk

USA Track LLC



Way to go Kirk!!

Last edited by OGR CEO-PUBLISHER

Eddie,

I have an approximate 8 x 20 layout and run 1 loop of standard gauge and 3 loops of O gauge.  I am running 72 inch radius Standard Gauge, with 1 straight section of track at the center of the curve, the a loop of 72 inch radius O gauge, a loop of 54 inch O gauge radius, and a loop of regular O gauge (whatever the standard radius is). 

As far as the spacing goes, I did not do anything special for spacing and found that the tracks spaced out well based on their respective radius curves.  I just checked the spacing at the front of the layout and I have about 5.5 inches between the loop of Standard and O gauge 72 inch radius and about 6 inches between the O gauge 72 inch and 54 inch radius.  I get much more space between the rails on the curves.  I did not check the spacing between the smaller radius and the 54 inch radius, but there is plenty of room there.

Here is a photo from just after the Standard Gauge, O-72 and O-54 track was installed.

Here is a photo with the smaller radius installed.  I did it as a dog-bone type loop, going behind the large Union Station.

Another shot from above

NWL



@Nation Wide Lines posted:

Eddie,

I have an approximate 8 x 20 layout and run 1 loop of standard gauge and 3 loops of O gauge.  I am running 72 inch radius Standard Gauge, with 1 straight section of track at the center of the curve, the a loop of 72 inch radius O gauge, a loop of 54 inch O gauge radius, and a loop of regular O gauge (whatever the standard radius is). 

As far as the spacing goes, I did not do anything special for spacing and found that the tracks spaced out well based on their respective radius curves.  I just checked the spacing at the front of the layout and I have about 5.5 inches between the loop of Standard and O gauge 72 inch radius and about 6 inches between the O gauge 72 inch and 54 inch radius.  I get much more space between the rails on the curves.  I did not check the spacing between the smaller radius and the 54 inch radius, but there is plenty of room there.

Here is a photo from just after the Standard Gauge, O-72 and O-54 track was installed.

Here is a photo with the smaller radius installed.  I did it as a dog-bone type loop, going behind the large Union Station.

Another shot from above

NWL

*bump* replying to this old post so that I can find all the good info here later!!!

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