Track vs noise...again

I have found Homasote to work best. Lay that over the plywood. Does not matter what track. Noice will be cut down considerably.

The solid rail MTH track is much quieter then the hollow.

Plastic roadbed track (any brand) is designed for soft surfaces like pile carpet, not traditional plywood or rigid foam underlayment.  Attaching the track with screws or other securement will exacerbate the issue.  I would pop over to your local carpet retailer and pick up some plush carpet remnants and cut them to the rough shape of the track, and nestle it into the hollow voids.  If that is not to your liking, I've also used 1/4"-1/2" EPDM sheet cut to be a roadbed.  It will not conduct noise due to the closed cell nature of the product.  You can find it at a HVAC distributor.  Finally, speed is a factor with this type of track. If you run scale speeds, you will be fine.  It increases in rail noise if running 125 smph like some postwar guys do.  

CALNNC posted:

I had a longer post leading up to this question, so just posting the question.   Can MTH track be effectively silenced on plywood installed over 1X4 grid work attached to  the walls?  Yes, I read quite a few posts, but most brag about how quiet you can make Atlas and Gargraves track.  Out of the question for me.

Get something rubber to put under the track. Then, don't run any lighted cars with pick-up rollers, mimimize the number of boxcars or other hollow freight cars or cabeeses.

I think you'll find the sound acceptable at that point, unless, you run the trains at ludicrous speed.

Slight thread drift.

Just a note about padding under your track and surrounding areas.  I have found that Lionel post-war accessories seem to work best on a hard surface.  I'm speaking of the ones that use vibrator motors.  They also like to be fastened to the platform with screws.  So carpeting, used as a base for your layout may be an issue with these accessories.

You also added an element I think many are overlooking as a sound source. A source that can effectively transmit vibration throughout a house worse than usual too; you are connecting to a wall. 

If it is on legs near the wall, you could sandwich foam or sound board bewtween layout & wall, & go to nylon screws with rubber backing to the wall since legs are supporting it up structurally you only need to keep it from shifting as you lean. There are also rubber expansion insert nuts ("well inserts") with metal threads that are excellent for isolation especially if used with a nylon machine screw,(and hold very well)

  Brick is no biggie, plaster somewhat better, but drywall can turn into a big percussion instrument if not isolated. Ask someone with a shelf layout

Felt, cork, rubber, homasote, caulk, carpet, etc under just your track helps with direct noise and transmitted noise & the "echo" off the bottom.

The  surface covering helps absorb sounds reflecting up.

Although my 5x8 layout has FasTrack just sitting on the surface, I learned the hard way about track noise with my first off-the-floor Christmas layout. I had screwed Gargraves track to the Luan board surface. What I got was rumbling thunder. Replacing the screws with plastic tie-downs solved the noise problem. 

Well, sounds like I have the perfect storm of noise generation.  The benchwork is attached to a wall that is paneling over studs, but at least there is both insulation board and fiberglass behind it.   I have tried plain styro insulation board under the MTH, then cork on top of the insul. board under the MTH, and none of it is as quiet as plain old Lionel 3 rail over cork on the plywood.  I also don't notice enough improvement with cork on the styrofoam with the tubular to custom cut a layout full of it.  The rubber back carpet idea is worth a try, have some scrap around here somewhere.   Of course I have only run a vintage loco back and forth over a 10 foot straight stretch for the testing. 

CALNNC,

   The way I deaden my RealTrax and FasTrack sound completely when I want to, is to use Acoustic Ceiling Tile over the 3/4 plywood, then cover it with inside outside carpet.  This building technique deadens the sound so well that my wife ask me to remove some of it, so we could hear the Christmas Trains run again.  My wife likes to hear the trains a little at Christmas time. Got to admit I agree with her and the 2nd and 3rd level ovals, where the Lionel Hallmark Toy Maker Santa Train and the Conventional K-Line Coca Cola Santa Train are set up, eventually had the Tile and Carpet completely removed.  As was noted by another member the original solid rail RealTrax is much less noisy than the later hollow made RealTrax.  The Lionel FasTrack is noisy no matter what generation of FasTrack. However I may not use any sound suppression on my FasTrack Ceiling Christmas layout at all, it all depends on the actual sound level while the Trains are running.

PCRR/Dave

In the photo you can see the Carpet over the Tile on the 1st level and the bare 3/4 Ply on the 2nd and 3rd levels.  Using this method you can create your own sound level as the trains run.

Mark,

   Great Engineering idea sir, I used the thin rubber backed inside/outside Carpet in the same manner, the block carpet is a great idea and much easier to use.

PCRR/Dave

I believe a once long time member here did some tests, and the most noise isn't from the track but from the layout top vibrating like a drum.  He found hanging heavy curtains on the edge of the layout not only hid everything under the layout, but also went a great ways to reducing the noise.

My layout is Atlas track on Midwest cork wood glued to felt 3M spray adhesived to Home Depot Quiet Brace liquid nailed to 1/2 plywood screwed to an overly build framework.  I use Atlas track screws to hold the track down, they do not go into the plywood.  The layout is attached to the wall on one of the short ends.  Is it as quiet as I want, nope.  But it is as quiet as I'm going to get it.  I've done what I can and I'm going to move forward and enjoy it as I build and run.  The return on investment to make it quieter is not worth it, so I won't worry about it anymore.  Good luck and have fun!

Foam is simple and easy, but I didn't get the result I expected. Nice?, Sure. And for more than just flat terrain, a godsend. I don't find the plastic roadbed tracks any quieter than tubular, the sounds are just at a different frequency (and I'm not fond of roadbed noise's higher pitch)

I never thought moving to a layout from carpet would be quite so loud. I had been around plenty of basement layouts before, but doing in a normal room the noise becomes more apparent. Sometimes perception is a bear.

The flat out quietest I ever heard was felt, carpet, homasote, caulk, and cork alone. In that order and finding big felt isn't easy anymore.. Added layers when soundproofing help a lot too. (hard/soft/hard/soft, etc.  hard blocks & air gaps absorbs)

Also, unless you plan on moving it, it is better to pin track from shifting than hold it down tight; Nylon hardware helps stop vibration trasfer too.

   For a cheap underside material, if you were inclined, old egg cartons stapled to the underside. I've used them for soundproofing low budget band studios a number of times; sometimes layered near a foot thick

When they get in the way of a rewire, etc. rip a few off, and go make an omelette after the fix

Joe Hohmann posted:

I had screwed Gargraves track to the Luan board surface. What I got was rumbling thunder. Replacing the screws with plastic tie-downs solved the noise problem. 

I failed to mention that the Gargraves track was on a cork roadbed. The sound was caused by the screws contact with the wood base, with the cork doing little or no good.

Hmmm, I have found that foam ear plugs are a cheap, easy, and effective way to reduce noise. 

Paul.

Mark's (BanjoFlyer) comments are bang on. Whatever you use for insulating material between the track and plywood, make sure the track fasteners only go into the insulating material. The insulating material has to have separate fastening to the layout top. Any fastener fixing the track right through the insulator to the layout top will bypass the soft stuff and transmit sound. All you have to do is find the best insulator and Mark seems to have done it. 

If you decide to use carpet tiles, open a box and examine their thickness. If the price is to good to be true, there rejects and will vary in thickness. I had to return carpet tile because of that.

CALNNC,

  If you decide to use the block rubber backed Carpet Tile, using the Acoustic Ceiling Tile under it will completely deaden the sound, make sure however you use the right size screws that attach the FasTrack or RealTrax just to the Block Ceiling Tile and Acoustical Tile and not the plywood base, if you want a real dead silent layout.  Myself I have done it both ways and because I like to hear my trains run, I used the longer screws that screw everything down on to the plywood.  Got to admit however, the silent layout with just the Clickety Clack from the Train Engine and rolling stock is way cool also.

Dave Z,

   Good point about the reject block floor tile being different thicknesses, I never thought of that aspect when trying to use it.  Great advise!

PCRR/Dave

So, went sound proofing material shopping today from all the great suggestions here, found one thing nobody mentioned, wondered if there were any thoughts on it.  Talking about the multicolored, made up of pieces of foam rubber, under carper cushion.  One thing I noticed was that there was unevenness in any given area as to springiness, meaning there are harder spots in it.  It was true on each side, not wavy or thick and thin, just the amount of give varied.  With cork over it and regular tube rail, or MTH with plastic roadbed, looks like it might work, but does it have too much give and will cause the rail or roadbed to dip under a loco's weight?  Anybody try it?

Carpet foam comes in a wide variety of densities and quality. Something that soft can be covered with 1/4" plywood and still stop the sound from transferring into the base plywood. Without the 1/4" inch, heavy engines will flex the tracks up and down as they travel and stress the joints.