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We've been in our new house for about a year now  - and have now reached the point where we're ready to build a basement layout.  This will be our third layout - and the most ambitious we've yet attempted.    The first was a ceiling/shelf layout in my daughter's nursery out in CO that we built just to ensure we had trains running.  Just a single loop of Atlas track running conventional, with a controller in the closet:

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The second was a garage layout (about 8'x10', plus a small yard) out in CA.  This started off as a double loop of O-31 in realtrax, but we eventually scrapped the inner loop in favor of more buildings and scenery:

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...and the new one will be about 8'x20', with an extension off the end acting as a yard.  I tried to keep the requirements simple:

-Double-track main line with min O-72 curves (big loops, connected with double crossover)

-Modular wiring for easy adjustments to track or structures

-Modular tables, to facilitate any future rearrangement

-Lift bridge (no duck-under) for entry

-Parking/yard area for 4+ additional trains and yard power cutoff switches

-DCS, Legacy/TMCC, and Lionchief operation



Below is the status of construction so far.  Over the holiday break we assembled each of the tables:

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We used adjustment furniture feet so that we can level the tables as required.  Here's my son installing one:

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Here's  a layout shot with all but one table built:

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Supports for backdrop added:

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Supervisor inspecting the work:

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Added hinged access panels for the track and accessory wiring hubs.  Not real pretty, but they'll never be seen so I built them out of scrap wood, spare hinges, and salvaged handle pulls.  Track and accessory power will be distributed through here.  I ran the track power in a star pattern, while accessory power is run as a bus.  Three separate accessory lines were run (for 4.5V, 12V, and 14V) and they are hubbed at each table.  Track power will be run on 3 channels (inner loop, outer loop, and yards) with multiple drop points for each.  I used barrier strips for the hubs, color coded cable for sanity, and cable clips for neatness.

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Once we got all the wiring done, we tested both the accessory and the track wiring hubs to ensure they work.  We dusted off the TIU and built a quick rig to plug in and test at each hub.  Got a good signal and an operating engine at all points & the accessory voltages checked out as well!

Note that we did all the wiring before adding the table tops...  makes it much easier to access everything!

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...Next step is to add the plywood tops and some pink foam.  More to come!



-Dustin

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Last edited by frizzinbee
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

carsntrains posted:

Very nice looking bench work.   Do you have a track plan in mind?   I see you are now using a Z4000. Do you plan to use a few of those?  

Jim 

I don't have a firm track plan - more of a rough sketch and a couple boxes of track.  Going to use Atlas track and a motley mix of Ross and Atlas switches.  It will definitely be two oval shaped main lines.  The outer loop will connect to a yard area with 4-5 parking tracks.  The inner loop may have a siding for a passenger station, as well as a branch off to an engine house.   I want to be able to store a few "extra" trains and engines on the track aside from those running, but am not interested in complex operations... just want to leave plenty of space for buildings and be able to send the trains around in nice wide loops.

I have two Z-4000s... which is probably overkill but allows me to put one handle on each track (inner loop, outer loop, and yards) with one handle to spare for any future modifications.  I'll also use the Z's to run the few accessories that require 14V (vice 12V, which most of my stuff uses).  The vast majority of the accessories will run off the 12V and 4.5V power supplies (4.5V stuff, of course, being Menards items).

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mike g. posted:

WOW Dustin, you sure have been busy! Things are looking great, and it sure looks like your sons and Daughter are having a blast helping out along the way! I really like how you did your power boxes. I hope you don't mind if I copy your idea down the road!

Thanks, Mike.  I thought the power box idea might work pretty well.  Keeps the wires hidden away (both for aesthetics and so the cat doesn't go Christmas Vacation on them) but makes it so I can get to them and swap leads around if needed.   I made a track power switch panel similarly accessible on the previous layout and was glad that I did.  I'll post if I run into any issues with them mounted that way.

rtr12 posted:

Looks like a well planned layout in progress! And you have a great construction crew working on the project too. It's great they are interested in helping and learning. What a wonderful learning experience for them.

I agree...  I'm thinking that, at a minimum, the kids will learn something about woodworking, engineering, electricity, modeling, art, and photography as we work through the project.  Thought really hard about skipping the layout this time around, but figured I'd regret not building one with the kids at this age if I did.

-Dustin

 

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Last edited by frizzinbee

Dustin,

I like your connection panels. What I didn't see is what the spring clips grab. What do they lock on to? Are they just broom handle holders or something like that?

Rather than using a mix of low voltage DC transformers, I made a 12v DC bus for the museum layout with a nice HO transformer. Then, we used the small converter boards from Asia on eBay to lower the voltage to the required amount each item. They have a variable pot to dial it in.

This will be a fun project! Keep us updated.

Moonman posted:

Dustin,

I like your connection panels. What I didn't see is what the spring clips grab. What do they lock on to? Are they just broom handle holders or something like that?

They are just spring clip cabinet latches from Home Depot.  I used two on each panel/door and they see to be holding well. 

rtr12 posted:

Those are all very practical things for them to learn as well. Stuff they will be able to use throughout life for many things. And be sure they always keep the supervisor happy, maybe a Pounce or two every now and then just to be sure.  

Oddly enough, the supervisor doesn't like treats of any kind.  She'll only eat her regular food and wont touch anything else.   ...seems to love the train table though.  I'm sure once we have scenery up we'll be dealing with a lot of Catzilla issues.

carsntrains posted:

Oh and if not mentioned before.   That sure is a nice looking bridge  you have sitting there!!!  

Jim 

Thanks!  That bridge is probably the centerpiece, though I have a thing for bridges so the layout will probably have ~7 of various types.

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Here's the layout update:  We now have the tops cut and installed for all sections.  I used a 3/4" particle board to save on cost (as compared to plywood).  Figured it really doesn't matter as we'll never see this surface & this stuff is plenty strong.  The kids did a lot of the work (with close supervision, of course) I terms of installing the latest components.  Biggest issue was making sure we did not inadvertently send a screw threw the wiring below.

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We also went ahead and installed the Masonite background, which extends 4' above the layout and covers most of 2 sides.  

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With the tops on the tables, I was also able to go ahead and unpack all the buildings to see which ones require repair...  lots of little things to fix here and there, but all in all pretty good for a cross country move.

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...and, of course, we had to add a sign to make sure the layout could be found

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Next step will be to seal the seams between the Masonite pieces, prime, and paint the background.  More to follow...

 

-Dustin

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Railrunnin posted:

Dustin - outstanding thread. Thank you for sharing. I have a question:

Where did you find this tugboat? I've been looking for one and they all are in the $250 range for a prebuilt model.

and the NH Flat as a pier is just great.

Thanks again, 

Paul

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Paul,

The tugboat is a kit I bought online, you can find it here.

There are several options available if you search for "waterline" under "O Scale" on ebay.  I thought it was a great kit; pretty easy to build up, parts fit together cleanly, nice details.  I added an LED light inside the wheel house on mine.

-Dustin

 

AGHRMatt posted:

Great work on the layout. Also great to see the kids involved in the construction.  We really miss you at AGHR, Dustin. 

Thanks Matt!  You wouldn't believe how big the kids are getting  - makes them great helpers on the layout, though   I really miss you all at AGHR, too.  The kids have asked a few times to "go to the train club".  Even when this thing is done it won't hold a candle to the AGHR layout, and there's something to be said about having a community of folks to run with.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Dustin,

   Great job and I love the helpers!  How about another ceiling shelf layout to go with your fantastic RealTrax floor level layout.  The Pink GG1 needs it's own layout!

PCRR/Dave

 

No ceiling layout this time   The kids now have bunk or loft beds, so there's no good place to run one.  The pink GG-1 will probably be on the layout a lot, though - it's my daughter's train.

rtr12 posted:

I am really enjoying watching the amazing crew (and supervisor)! Nothing better than the kids participating in this project. They really look like they are having fun and are also serious about doing a good job too. Best part of the thread, great crew!! 

Thanks!  They are a great construction crew!

...speaking of construction, here's a quick update with the latest:  I've taped and applied joint compound over the joints in the background Masonite.  A couple cycles of sanding and touch-up and it should be ready to prime!   Making a little slower progress than expected as we decided to remodel a bathroom this month & that's taking most of my constructive efforts...

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I also started doing some repairs on the buildings that need it.  My coaling tower seems to have (as Matt would put it) reverted to kit form.  That may be for the best, as I can upgrade it to LEDs and add some additional lights when I reassemble it:

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More to follow!

-Dustin

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Thanks, Mike!

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It was a rainy day here in VA, so we made a little more progress on the layout.  The background has now been primed white.  ...and, wow, getting a lighter color on there really brightened the room back up!  Hoping to do the actual background painting soon.

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While the primer dried, I also started fixing-up some of the buildings and whatnot.  I got the Menards burned engine house what it needed most: a tender.  Also planning to replace the stickers on the front and back with better looking signage.

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Started working on the coaling tower - got it re-assembled and started doing some re-wiring

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The building in the back I got at York this past fall...  starting to do some repair work in it, the will add some greater details.

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And here's a Trainworx "LCCA" bridge I picked-up on ebay recently.  I'm covering over the LCCA part & adding my own signage... though not sure what I will go for quite yet.   Maybe a PRR Keystone or some kind of crest.

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Back with an update!   I've been learning how to paint clouds... which is a little bit more difficult than one would imagine.  I think I'm pretty happy with the clouds now, after a couple iterations, but am going to make a couple touch-ups to get the blending a little bit better (especially in the bend around the corner, more on that below). 

Here's how the background painting started.  I had the kids helping with blending in the white & they had a blast!   The blending eventually devolved into them outright painting animals and shapes in the sky... which is cool, they were enjoying themselves:

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Here we see an otter shaped cloud, accompanied by a giraffe:

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At first, I attempted to preserve the kids "animal" drawings by making them look like fluffy clouds.  The thinking wa sthat I could soften the edges and work them in as a fun element that still looked realistic.  I think I was partially successful, but that the sky came out really busy, oddly disconnected, and graffiti-esque in the process.  Fun, but not what I was going for:

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After much internal deliberation, consultation with co-workers, and advice form my wife, I went ahead and re-painted most of the sky again last night.  I went for "less is more" with the clouds and tried to use more wet brush blending to fill it in.  Here's how it looks now - overall, I think it's an improvement:

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Notice the blending is still a bit off around the curve in the corner.  Will touch that up:

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I like this table-height perspective shot:

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The supervisor, of course, slept through the whole thing and displayed a distinct lack of interest.  ... though it's possible she was trying to show me what an actual cloud looks like:

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More to follow!   Next-up is laying down the insulation and initial track placement. 

 

-Dustin

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I liked the Otter and Giraffe clouds!! Maybe they could have a place somewhere they would be safe?? Down on the endo somewhere or something? Also, looks like the supervisor has complete confidence in the crew!! These are great pics, love to see the kids involved and having fun. I agree with Mike, looks like you are a great Dad and have some great kids.    Hug your kids!!

Cold sleety day outside.  It seems the groundhog was right.  I'm ready for spring, but were at least able to make a big leap forward on the layout.  Today we got the insulation installed on the main layout deck, installed the two mood lighting fixtures, started working building placement, and made some more repairs to the buildings we had shipped.

-In the below pic, you can see we went with 1" thick foam all around.  I also picked up some 2" for use later as we build-up landscaping features and bridges.   The foam decking is secured in place with adhesive caulk - took almost 3 tubes, so I'm glad I bought extra just in case.

-Near the top of the image below you can see the two pendant lamp shades.  No bulbs are installed yet, but I'll eventually put smart bulbs in there to control the tone of lighting on the layout.   I have high hopes that will be a cool feature.

-Last, but not least by any stretch, was the surprisingly difficult task of building placement.  Placement is in progress in the below pic... I did lots of experimenting on where I wanted things and pretty much ended with switching around my whole building location plan.  I thought I would have plenty of room for all my buildings on this layout, but it's actually been more of a challenge to get all of them to fit and look good. 

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...and, of course, while I pondered building placement my supervisor kept close, vaguely interested watch.

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Next up is rough layout of the track and switches.  Need to see how it will all actually align before I start installing bridges and building out viaducts.

 

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Today we busted out the track and did a rough test set-up on the layout.  We didn't fully connect everything, just did some checking to see how the curves, switches, and bridges will work out.  Overall it was a good exercise... I now have templates cut out for the hills, tunnel and the viaduct area, we can refine building placement, and we can start doing permanent install of some track one I have the two main bridges ready!  

Here we are sorting all the curves by size to make the track laying process simpler.  We are going with O-72 min curves throughout.  A good chunk of the outer loop will be at least O-81.

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In this shot, we're testing viaduct pathways vs. curve radius using paint cans as temporary bridge piers.  On the extreme right, toward the back, we're also playing with the approach to the yard.

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This shot gives a good overview of the general plan and progress to date:

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Not a lot of time today, but I did lay down the "ground" for the high bridge area on the front corner, as well as start construction on a hinged lift bridge for access to the layout interior.

Here's a look at the corner where the lowest level was added.  Should make for a nice, high, sweeping curved bridge (or bridges) of some kind & allow for a waterfall.  As with elsewhere on the layout, I used adjustable feet to lock in the exact height needed.  Also visible is the concrete arch bridge I've been working on here and there:

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Here are some shots of lift bridge construction underway.  I started by removing the foam to install wooden abutments where I can better secure the track entering/exiting the bridge:

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Here is the bridge installed, with a test fit of the "abutments" (for lack of a better term).  I'll need to shim them up a bit higher to exactly match the bridge height and height of the foam area.  Gap on the left by the hinges is so that the bridge does not impinge on the track when lifted:

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Here's the bridge lifted up once a pneumatic arm was installed.  I had a leftover one after doing some work on a toy box, and this seemed a pretty good use:

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...and here's a close-up of the hinges and lift arm.  Not as elegant as I'd like, but trying to make max use of spare parts.  Power will be wired to the bridge on this (hinged) side, with momentary lever switches controlling power to the rails leading to the bridge on the other side:

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Next up is the install of more "abutments" for other bridge locations around the layout, further work on the bridge, and initial work on foam scenery.   

 

-Dustin

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Moving on!

I had never thought of a furniture use for the hydraulic arm. Is there a furniture supplier for those? I look for automotive trunk and hood supports depending on the weight and length needed.

Cut the track rails on 45° angles to mate at a smooth joint - up from the bottom on table side and down from the top on bridge side

Last edited by Moonman
Moonman posted:

Moving on!

I had never thought of a furniture use for the hydraulic arm. Is there a furniture supplier for those? I look for automotive trunk and hood supports depending on the weight and length needed.

Cut the track rails on 45° angles to mate at a smooth joint - up from the bottom on table side and down from the top on bridge side

Thanks!  Good advice on the cut angles, will definitely do that when it comes time.  As far as the hydraulic arm, I bought them in a five pack online (Amazon, I think?) a while ago to make some toy boxes close more gently.  They are actually for cabinet doors, based on what I can discern from the instructions.

 

Ken-Oscale posted:

Nice work!!   I wonder if it can be adjusted to open more straight up?  Might avoid some head-bumps if it can.

Thanks, and good point!  It can be adjusted higher if I wish, I could just move the location where the arm mates to the bridge lower.  I have it at less than 90 degrees (for now, at least) to ensure that the two pieces of track on the hinged side do not impinge on each other when the bridge is lifted.  Once I know how much play there is in that joint I may be able to make it open higher.

Last edited by frizzinbee
Moonman posted:

Oh, don't forget that the safety "stop" electrical blocks are needed on both sides.

If you have lighted passenger cars, the block needs to be longer than that train - the lighted cars will forward the power

That's a good point...  I didn't think about powered cars bridging power across blocks.  Will have to give that some thought & maybe do a couple tests.  Appreciate the input!

frizzinbee posted:
Ken-Oscale posted:

Nice work!!   I wonder if it can be adjusted to open more straight up?  Might avoid some head-bumps if it can.

Thanks, and good point!  It can be adjusted higher if I wish, I could just move the location where the arm mates to the bridge lower.  I have it at less than 90 degrees (for now, at least) to ensure that the two pieces of track on the hinged side do not impinge on each other when the bridge is lifted.  Once I know how much play there is in that joint I may be able to make it open higher.

I know its not the greatest look, but if you put the hinges on top of two block on the top of the layout the track will match up just great! It would also let you go beyond 90 degrees if you wanted to!

mike g. posted:
frizzinbee posted:
Ken-Oscale posted:

Nice work!!   I wonder if it can be adjusted to open more straight up?  Might avoid some head-bumps if it can.

Thanks, and good point!  It can be adjusted higher if I wish, I could just move the location where the arm mates to the bridge lower.  I have it at less than 90 degrees (for now, at least) to ensure that the two pieces of track on the hinged side do not impinge on each other when the bridge is lifted.  Once I know how much play there is in that joint I may be able to make it open higher.

I know its not the greatest look, but if you put the hinges on top of two block on the top of the layout the track will match up just great! It would also let you go beyond 90 degrees if you wanted to!

Mike & Ken - After some experimentation and consideration, I have to admit you are both correct.  I've re-designed the lift bridge with smaller top-mounted hinges, set about 3 in forward of the cut in the track (which necessitates a U-shaped cut on the hinged end of the bridge).  I'm also mounting the hydraulic arm differently so that I can get to ~90 degrees and make a more adult-friendly walk-through.   Will post pics once I have a chance to get the pieces cut and installed, but I think this design will be improvement.

Quick update with current status of the re-built lift bridge.  I was able to cut out and install the main pieces today.  I haven't gotten the hydraulic arm fully installed, nor several other ancillary pieces, but it's largely done.  

The middle section of the bridge (between hinges) is 9" wide -  plenty of room for a double main line to pass through.  As the previous post states, this time around I have the hinges ahead of the track break, which will allow that end to swing "up and over" the stationary track sections affixed to the table.  I also upgraded to 3/4 birch plywood this time... Figured I could splurge for a critical component, and the cheaper composite board I used previously had shown signs of warping:

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Here's a demo of the lift:

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Here's the lift-away from the non-hinged side.  I left ~1/8" gap (rather then making joints fully flush) to allow some margin for expansion:

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Close-up of the hinged side.  The hole cut into the center is for the support arm, which has been re-located on the inside of the table (vs. in the walkway as in previous design):

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Here's how the hydraulic support arm will sit.  I only have it half connected for now, but this shows the general idea:

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Next-up, more work to finish-out this bridge, as well as the installation of a couple more fixed bridges along the back side of the layout.

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Hi FRIZZINBEE, I'm looking into a layout myself with a swing up like yours.  What I've seen online also uses your pneumatic arm but uses these special pivot hinges instead.  It's supposed to be a better hinge for these kind of applications as the pivot point is up higher a bit above the board.  

https://www.sugatsune.com/prod...mp;productid=PL%2D60

I'm thinking of having 3 tracks over this section, one is an elevated outer loop with trolley line under.  I'm thinking it may be to heavy to swing up so may have to swing it out like a door, if that's ever done.

Ooooh.... Mike G, awesome idea with the linear actuator!  How precise is it at the end points, do you have a simple mechanical switch that it triggers, is it stepper and may count # of steps, optical, etc?  Mostly I would be worried in the down position.  Also, I'm guessing you have a counterbalance of some sort to lessen the strain on the motor.  Can you share the source if it was a kit, or was it hand made.  In my house that'd be played with too much by the kids, and likely during operation!  Very nice touch.

I did find the forum on swing gates from 2015 that I'll add here just to round out the discussion:  https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...out-section-possible

Kirk

Kirk R posted:

Ooooh.... Mike G, awesome idea with the linear actuator!  How precise is it at the end points, do you have a simple mechanical switch that it triggers, is it stepper and may count # of steps, optical, etc?  Mostly I would be worried in the down position.  Also, I'm guessing you have a counterbalance of some sort to lessen the strain on the motor.  Can you share the source if it was a kit, or was it hand made.  In my house that'd be played with too much by the kids, and likely during operation!  Very nice touch.

I did find the forum on swing gates from 2015 that I'll add here just to round out the discussion:  https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...out-section-possible

Kirk

Hi Kirk, here is a link to the post I did when I built it. It has limit switches for both up and down stop locations. Then link tells it all. If you have other questions let me know.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/lift-bridge-1

Kirk R posted:

Hi FRIZZINBEE, I'm looking into a layout myself with a swing up like yours.  What I've seen online also uses your pneumatic arm but uses these special pivot hinges instead.  It's supposed to be a better hinge for these kind of applications as the pivot point is up higher a bit above the board.  

https://www.sugatsune.com/prod...mp;productid=PL%2D60

I'm thinking of having 3 tracks over this section, one is an elevated outer loop with trolley line under.  I'm thinking it may be to heavy to swing up so may have to swing it out like a door, if that's ever done.

That's a neat hinge - I wasn't aware that was available, and will have to keep it in mind for future applications!

mike g. posted:

Frizzinbee, sure looks sweet nice work! Nice clean and easy Great job! 

KIRK K, there are may post on here about swing bridges. Just do a search and you will get a boat load.

Here is what happens when you don't have a layout yet and get board! Something to stay in the game!

Wow, Mike, that is cool!   I'm impressed with the use of the actuator, and was really tempted to copy your design...  but we'll also be using the under layout space for storage, and would prefer to not have to have the bridge powered to lift it.

Alright, time for a quick update on the hinged bridge.

First, I went ahead and mounted the lever switches that will cut-off track power on the open side while the bridge is up (the hinged side just turns the bridge into a wall, which should also be effective at stopping trains from careening into the concrete abyss).  These particular switches have screw attachments for the wires, which I like in case I need to swap parts at some point.  Here they are up position that I'll use for "open":

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....and here they are in the depressed position, which I will use for "closed".

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Not obvious in the photos, but I installed a new hydraulic arm with more weight capacity and a longer reach.  This allowed me to get the bridge up past vertical & gives a nice soft closure.  In this pic, you can also see the piece attached to the bottom that depresses the lever switches:

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Down position:

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Up until yesterday, I fully intended to dress this bridge out as a straight-forward girder bridge... but then I got to thinking about bridge types and remembered going to see this bridge a couple years ago (Sundial Bridge, Redding, CA):

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...and that led to thoughts on how cool it would be to build a cantilvered cable-stayed bridge on the layout.  ...And then how I might pull it off.   I did a quick cardboard mock-up, and I think this may work.  I like the angle, and the placement seems about right (i.e. on one "shore"):

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The "fin" is in the ballpark height-wise, and could be a good inch taller before it touches the table behind it - and even then, I could cut a well into the foam or shift the fin forward to give me a little more height if needed:

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I think some white 10 awg wire might work for the cable stays - the proportions seem fairly realistic, and I even found some at Home Depot that didn't have writing on the coating.  Also going to look into geting a strip of color changing LEDs to shine up on the cables and light them, so white cables large enough to reflect that light are a consideration:

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-Dustin

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Last edited by frizzinbee

As has been mentioned earlier in this thread, there is an advantage to having the hinge point be at or above the top of the rails - namely that when the bridge is lifted, the arc moves the ends of the rails out and away from each other.  This avoids the problem of having to mess with cutting the rails at an angle or leaving a gap.    I'm sure there are pictures from other bridge threads on this forum, but I didn't try to find them.  Perhaps it was on Susan's website??

It should work with your offset hinge location as well - you may have to figure out how high above the top of the rails the hinge point needs to be in the offset location case.  Certainly when the hinge point is right where the rails meet and just above the rail top, the initial movement in swinging the bridge up will move the rail ends apart.

As RICHS09 says there is a distinct advantage to moving the hinge point up higher, like if you were using the pivot hinges I referred to above.  While it looks like it would work now when, you add roadbed and track that'll add 1/2" or so to the height above your current pivot point and could be an issue.  Suggest you temporarily layout some track there now and test how your current design would fare.  If an issue get those hinges.

My layout has changed somewhat so that I now must use a swing out instead of up as I have 3 tracks going over my swing section and 2 of those tracks will be a double decker.  Pivot point would have to be at something like 7-8 inches high which'll look silly.  So now it is planned as simple door swing out with a big fat wheel on the end to support the weight.  Carpentry will need to be precise.

Dustin, I think its looking great! with your hinges set back I don't see any problems even with road bed. All your doing is transferring the same thing you have now up a 1/4".

Kirk, you could use the same method I used for my bridge, just make it wider for all your track and build supports for the upper deck! I can send you a drawing if you would like.

RICHS09,

I did some testing (and I use the term loosely) before locking in this design, and you are correct that I will not be able to get away with straight cuts and no gap in this configuration.  I'm confident I can get no track gap and use angle cuts, though, and I'm thinking the angle cuts will be easy enough if I lock down all the track in final config and then cut them with a dremel cutting wheel. 

__________________

Kirk,

You're right- might be worth fully testing with a piece of track to fully ensure the lift will work as I think it will before I get the bridge all dressed-up and painted. I do not expect roadbed height to be an issue.  The foam roadbed I've selected has some "give", so I'm not using it on this bridge or the immediate approaches in order to ensure the joints stay in alignment vertically.  The wooden abutments sit ~1/4" (i.e. roadbed height) above the foam level to accommodate this transition, and I intend to screw the track directly into both them and the bridge surface.  This will certainly cause greater noise as trains cross this section, but I think that's a fair trade to reduce complexity.   ...Though... thinking as I type... I could always use some cork in this section to help dampen sound... hmmm.....

___________________

Mike,

Thanks!  I've been pleasantly surprised with how this is coming out so far

 

-Dustin

 

To cut down on noise further you may want to add a very thin layer of rubber, cork, even duct or electrical tape may work at locations on the horizontal portions of the two tables where the bridge will lay when down.  This may act as a damper and should help cut down on any vibrations in the bridge as engines roll across.  A lock that pulls the bridge down in the closed position and applies a little force to keep it down might also be helpful.  

Dustin - I don't really have a dog in this hunt (as someone once said), but it seems to me the advantage of using an elevated hinge point and simply a butt joint on the track, roadbed, etc. is that its the most flexible in terms of making changes as you go along.  The elevated hinge might be a bit harder to 'hide', but you'd have to find a way to hide the hinge in any event (if that is an important consideration...).

Another important consideration - independent of the hinge point - is to make sure you have a horizontal alignment method where the bridge meets the rest of the track when the bridge is down.  I don't see it in the pictures you've posted (may have missed it).  the lateral match is a pretty tight tolerance.

Looks like a fun project all around.

Kirk R posted:

To cut down on noise further you may want to add a very thin layer of rubber, cork, even duct or electrical tape may work at locations on the horizontal portions of the two tables where the bridge will lay when down.  This may act as a damper and should help cut down on any vibrations in the bridge as engines roll across.  A lock that pulls the bridge down in the closed position and applies a little force to keep it down might also be helpful.  

That's an interesting idea... I hadn't thought of a thin damper under the bridge itself.  It would have to be very thin, as you say, but I may go back and try that if noise is an issue.

I do plan to add a lock to hold the bridge in the fully down position, and am looking at using a set of chest latches or a pair of tracked slider bars.  I tried more of a standard sliding latch yesterday and the results were less an acceptable - way too much play in the connection.

richs09 posted:

Dustin - I don't really have a dog in this hunt (as someone once said), but it seems to me the advantage of using an elevated hinge point and simply a butt joint on the track, roadbed, etc. is that its the most flexible in terms of making changes as you go along.  The elevated hinge might be a bit harder to 'hide', but you'd have to find a way to hide the hinge in any event (if that is an important consideration...).

Another important consideration - independent of the hinge point - is to make sure you have a horizontal alignment method where the bridge meets the rest of the track when the bridge is down.  I don't see it in the pictures you've posted (may have missed it).  the lateral match is a pretty tight tolerance.

Looks like a fun project all around.

Very good point with respect to the flexibility inherent in a butt joint- hadn't considered that previously.  At this point I don't plan to change the joint height or the support arm mount unless it becomes an issue - but if I were starting over I would probably do it with a raised hinge

As far as horizontal alignment, I installed furniture pegs in the bridge and corresponding abutment tonight.  These have done a great job in eliminating lateral movement and ensuring consistent alignment.  Some latches on top, as mentioned in my previous post, should control vertical movement.

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Haven't had a whole lot of time to work on the layout recently, but was able to make some progress today.  Here are the big things that got done...

I used the temp bridge fin as a template and cut the actual fit our of birch plywood:

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...also cut our some other parts for the lift bridge and another bridge:

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Here's a test fit of the piers for the other bridge I'm working on (the gray one in the foreground).   Plan is to have a river flowing under the central span here.  I'll eventually skin these piers with embossed brick:

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Here's a test fit of the bridge fin, which is about 1/3 larger than the original test version.  Cat provided for scale:

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After the test fit, I got some help drilling holes for the cable stays and sanding:

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We also affixed the bridge edging on the top and bottom of both long sides.  We went with some spare quarter round we had handy to give it a more substantial look but also retain modern lines:

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Bridge set it place to see how it looks so far.  Also went ahead and applied sandable wood filler to the sides to plug gaps and nail holes:

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Did a test fit of the cable in a couple positions while I was at it.  In the bottom pic, you can see the cabinet latches I'm using to secure the bridge vertically and lock it in the down position.

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Next for the lift bridge comes more sanding and paint.  Once I get this bridge and the gray one behind it in place I can lay about 3/4 of the layout track.   Did a quick count, and this layout is on pace to have 10 railroad bridges, plus one vehicle bridge... apparently I like bridges.

-Dustin

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Last edited by frizzinbee
Kirk R posted:

It looks real nice!  Stainless cable?

Nope...  thought about using stainless, but decided to go with 14 gauge white wire instead.  The prototype cables are white, so figured mine might as well be too and this was an easy way to do it.  Plus, I'm still toying with the idea of putting a light up top and this is an easy "hide in plain sight" way to get power up there.

Dustin, things are looking really nice! I like the gray bridge in the back there! It sure looks like your bridge with the fin is going to work and look wonderful! The idea of the white 14 gauge wire is a great idea, make it easier to see the wire! Keep up the great work!  Also make sure you keep your help happy, he looks like he doing a wonderful job! Maybe a raise is in order! LOL

mike g. posted:

Dustin, things are looking really nice! I like the gray bridge in the back there! It sure looks like your bridge with the fin is going to work and look wonderful! The idea of the white 14 gauge wire is a great idea, make it easier to see the wire! Keep up the great work!  Also make sure you keep your help happy, he looks like he doing a wonderful job! Maybe a raise is in order! LOL

Thanks, Mike.  I like the gray bridge, too.  Not quite as exciting (or time consuming) as the fin bridge, but it really looks great when it's up on the support pillars.   

E-UNIT-79 posted:

So Dustin you did all this work painting the room. Building the layout. Building all those bridges in 45 days or so just you and the kids? Wow that's some achievement.  And it looks BEAUTIFUL . Keep up the good work.

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment!   We're making steady progress, but it's definitely doesn't feel like quick process. Some days it feels like a slog (like when we were wiring - bleh), so we make it a rule to not work on the layout when we don't genuinely want to so it doesn't become a chore   I can't claim to have built all the bridges we'll use in the last ~45 days...  a couple I had already or were carry-overs from our last layout (like the big silver truss bridge).   

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...Today was an example of limited progress as we focused on other projects.  I did do some sanding and got the first coat of paint on the fin bridge.  Finish is not as smooth as I'd like, so I'm going to lightly sand once this coat hardens and then hit it again with gloss white:

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...in the background of the above pic you can see I also painted the bases of the support piers for the gray bridge

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Alright, time for another quick update!  No major work accomplished, but I did get a few things done around the layout that will enable some big leaps.

The lift bridge is now fully painted white & the abutments blue/gray.  I also have the cable stays half installed... they are secured into the fin but have not been tightened and secured to the underside of the bridge yet.

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Here's another angle.  Should look pretty sweet once the "cables" are tight:

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Here's another look at the gray bridge.  Over here, I painted the support piers (where they will show) and added the primary foal "walls" to the canyon.  Don't have the bridge locked in place yet, pending exact track placement and finish work on the piers.  In the foreground is a Plasticville watch tower that we revamped a couple years ago:

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Used a wash & added mortar to some JTT stamped brick sheets, which will be used in the support piers above to make them look more realistic:

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"A River Runs Through It"... I now have a river cutting through part of the town, which not only adds interest but justifies 4 bridges (2 train, 1 auto, 1 pedestrian):

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Added some more insulation walls to other low-lying areas. Will add some more layers then make them look like rock later... for now just trying to get all the foundational stuff in so we can get the track down:

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...and just for fun, here's 2 MTH trailers that I dressed up a little more for the old layout.  Looking forward to getting the trailer park back up and running

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-Dustin

 

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mike g. posted:

Looking really nice there Dustin! I really like the river and also agree with you once the cables are tight it will look sweet! 

Side question, how do you change the date on your updates for the title?

Mike,

If you go back to the original post in a thread, go to "take action", and then hit edit  you have the option to change the post title when editing that post.  Nothing fancy or automated... I just update it when I make a progress update to the thread.  

-Dustin

The lift bridge (Cantilevered Cable Stayed Drawbridge?) is complete!   I secured the underside of the cables with a staple gun earlier today.  Here it is immediately after install, in the "up" position.  I had pre-cut a slot in the foam for the peak of the bridge to sit inside:

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Now that the bridge is done, it was time to paint the top of the layout in prep for track installation.  First order of business was to alert the boss that her nap would have to be re-located:

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I went with an army green color for the top, choosing from the selection of "oops" paint and mistints at Home Depot.  I picked up this green as a base for the horizontal surfaces, as well as a nice dark gray for rock.  The blue/gray bridge abutments are also a mistint find.  Here's the top freshly painted:

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Good angle on the bridge:

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...and all the buildings and bridges and whatnot have been temporarily re-located to the guest room while the top is painted and track work begins: 

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Hopefully tonight I can get the switches prep'd for install, finish up some bridge piers, and paint some of the "water" areas on the table.

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really nice to see an example of modern bridge engineering on a layout.

A lot late-but I finally found my bookmark to a method of pivoting a lift up bridge that makes a nice hidden look. I think that this is thread where I got the idea of the 45° cut of the rail for a closely mated seam. Note that somewhere he mentions that his spouse is an engineer.

Thanks again for sharing your progress.

 

Dustin, things are looking really good! Great job on the fin bridge! I like that you shared the story about the paint. I know I can get it cheaper from there screw up shelf then the new stuff you have them mix. I will have to keep that in mind!

Thanks for the information on how to change the title also! You rock!

Moonman posted:

really nice to see an example of modern bridge engineering on a layout.

A lot late-but I finally found my bookmark to a method of pivoting a lift up bridge that makes a nice hidden look. I think that this is thread where I got the idea of the 45° cut of the rail for a closely mated seam. Note that somewhere he mentions that his spouse is an engineer.

Thanks again for sharing your progress.

 

Thanks!  That's a neat thread -I like the way he made the whole lift bridge into a self-contained scene.

--------------------------

Snow Day!  We're off to do some sledding soon, but this morning I did get a chance to paint the water and finish up the bridge piers for the gray bridge.

Snow, as viewed through the window:

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Here's the water.  I did a wet blend of two different shades of blue I had on hand to give it some variation.  This won't all be water, of course, but figured I might as well give myself max flexibility in land and waterfall placement:

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Went ahead and did the creek too:

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..and couldn't help doing a test-fit of a small bridge.  I need to paint the rocks along the bank later:

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Here are the completed bridge piers for the gray bridge, now clad in brick:

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-Dustin

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Alright, I haven't had a lot of train time lately (and the weather had been nice!)... but I took some time to make a little more progress this weekend.  Here's the latest:

 

First, about 80% of the track had been installed (including the track over the list bridge).  I added a layer of foam roadbed underneath to make it as quiet as possible, which took quite a bit of time to cut and install. You can see the double crossover in this shot:

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Here's where the track ends right now...  but the bridges are in place and ready to go, at least

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The yard area has track in place too, though the main loops lead off a cliff pending completion:

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Back side of the layout, with siding.

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Lift bridge down and locked in place.

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Test car, checking the rails over the bridge

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We made a template for our two mountain tunnels.  Here we've traced it onto the foam:

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..here's the mess part way through cutting.  Jigsaw worked great, but the side effect was that (thanks to all the foam particles) I looked like a pink cherry blossom tree afterward

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The kids did a rough stack of both mountains for me.

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after bed time for the little humans, I went and glued the mountains together, kind of making up the top portion as I went.  These will, of course, be textured and painted.  The larger mountain is 38" tall at the point.   I wanted it to be tall, but also (1) have space for structures of some kind and (2) Not exceed the height of the backdrop.

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Track bumpers.  I was pleased how well these came out & may weather them a bit:

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...and, of course, after a days hard work there was an inspection of the work completed (to include the bridge capacity test, shown below)

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Looks great so far and that bridge really turned out great! It looks really nice!! Also, happy to see the crew is still on the job, happy and doing well, and the fearless, bridge testing supervisor is too! Coming along very nicely.

I must say that figuring out all the pieces to the mountain and how they would go together looks a bit complicated for me. You must have a very good sense of what things will look like when once assembled. Please keep posting updates and pictures.

frizzinbee posted:

The lift bridge (Cantilevered Cable Stayed Drawbridge?) is complete!   I secured the underside of the cables with a staple gun earlier today.  Here it is immediately after install, in the "up" position.  I had pre-cut a slot in the foam for the peak of the bridge to sit inside:

IMG_2603

Now that the bridge is done, it was time to paint the top of the layout in prep for track installation.  First order of business was to alert the boss that her nap would have to be re-located:

IMG_2590

I went with an army green color for the top, choosing from the selection of "oops" paint and mistints at Home Depot.  I picked up this green as a base for the horizontal surfaces, as well as a nice dark gray for rock.  The blue/gray bridge abutments are also a mistint find.  Here's the top freshly painted:

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Good angle on the bridge:

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...and all the buildings and bridges and whatnot have been temporarily re-located to the guest room while the top is painted and track work begins: 

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Hopefully tonight I can get the switches prep'd for install, finish up some bridge piers, and paint some of the "water" areas on the table.

So I'm not the only one that has to do this! Ok, now I feel better.

rtr12 posted:

I must say that figuring out all the pieces to the mountain and how they would go together looks a bit complicated for me. You must have a very good sense of what things will look like when once assembled. Please keep posting updates and pictures.

Thanks!   ...as far as the mountain, I can't take too much credit for how forethought in the assembly.  We used  a  large sheet of brown paper to do a template for each mountain.  We just laid it over the track & marked the shape we needed to fit the space & give train clearance.  The first 6 or so layers of each are identical cuts from the template (minus a tunnel gap on the bottom 4 layers).  Above the template parts, we just used scrap pieces and just kind of made it up as we went.

As a further indicator to my lack of mountain forethought, it occurred to me today that the big one will likely not fit through the doorways to get back inside and downstairs.  We'll have to burn that bridge when we get there... 

The kids dubbed the larger mountain "Fat Fish Mountain" due to the shape of the template.  Unfortunately, I think the name will stick.

-Dustin

That makes it sound a little easier, but still the idea to make the templates is a good one and I am sure needed some thought. And then having it all come out looking nice too. I bet the crew is sometimes good with new ideas too. They might have something to suggest for the very minor detail of doorway size as well.  My grandson has had some good ideas for things we do around here. The crew's naming ideas are good too!!

Last edited by rtr12
frizzinbee posted:
rtr12 posted:

I must say that figuring out all the pieces to the mountain and how they would go together looks a bit complicated for me. You must have a very good sense of what things will look like when once assembled. Please keep posting updates and pictures.

Thanks!   ...as far as the mountain, I can't take too much credit for how forethought in the assembly.  We used  a  large sheet of brown paper to do a template for each mountain.  We just laid it over the track & marked the shape we needed to fit the space & give train clearance.  The first 6 or so layers of each are identical cuts from the template (minus a tunnel gap on the bottom 4 layers).  Above the template parts, we just used scrap pieces and just kind of made it up as we went.

As a further indicator to my lack of mountain forethought, it occurred to me today that the big one will likely not fit through the doorways to get back inside and downstairs.  We'll have to burn that bridge when we get there... 

The kids dubbed the larger mountain "Fat Fish Mountain" due to the shape of the template.  Unfortunately, I think the name will stick.

-Dustin

Assemble Fat Fish Mountain in 2 sections. Only glue the pieces for each half. Top and bottom. Use some nails with the heads cut off to hold the top in place for carving and finishing and such. Pins between the two layers. Then,  pull it apart, take it downstairs and reassemble it in place. If the seam is too visible, hide it with something.

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