Train Room Lighting

I have not seen anything like that at the big box stores.  We are currently Building a school and all the lights including the shop lights are led and o-10 volt dimming.  This is not a plug in solution but they do exist.  You may want to try a local electrical distributor.

I'm not sure about hanging Shop Lights, but I think you and I talked via email and I'm in a similar spot.  I'm trying to leverage my connections at Lutron to get some info.

Hi John, we have talked via Email, and I am still looking!

Hi Mike, Homedepot.com has many LED fixtures that resemble the old fluorescent shop lights.  In the detailed specifications it will indicate what type of connection and if it's dimmable.  It is a lot to go through but you may find one that has a plug for the connection.  But since they're led they're not $10 like the old fluorescents. 

Hi Coach, I know I have been looking threw there website and Lowes and haven't found one that says works with dimmers!

It will be highly unlikely to find a plug in shop light that is dimmable.  Dimming a receptacle is actually against building code.  There are all kinds of ways around it, but it is not worth the risk.  My old home had a receptacle connected to a dimmer unbeknownst to me and my gf at the time plugged a vacuum cleaner into it with the lights at about 75%. She was smart and pulled the plug real quick before any damage to my vacuum or the dimmer.

With Lutron's new Caseta lamp dimmers, you can dim plug in lamps, but you are limited to 2-prong (ungrounded) plugs.  Most shop lights are grounded fixtures.

Come to think of it, You might have better luck looking at undercabinet lighting and then building your own hanging fixture. Or, if you have old florescent shop lights, rip out the bulbs and ballast and mount the undercabinet lights to it.  Would need some experimenting.

Mike, why plug-in?  Plenty of dimmable hard-wired fixtures reminiscent of the old 4 foot fluorescents.

EVERY light in and outside of my home is now LED...something I attended to when we renovated the place. Has made a significant and very positive impact on the electric bill. Includes all light fixtures inside the house, as well as the garage, outdoor floodlights, driveway lamp post, etc. Ditto for the basement, where LED's light the laundry room, mechanicals room, closets, foyer, and the train room with its adjacent train room lounge area.

In addition to two 4-foot long LED fluorescent lights for overhead and general work-area lighting in the train room, I also have LED track lights (20 lamp heads) on dimmable switches to light the layout. Might even add another LED track light head or two as the layout develops, but for now I'm pretty well set. I also have a remote switch (not hard wired) on the wall at the entrance to the train room to turn all layout power on and off.

Hi Everyone, I mounted outlets in the ceiling for shop lights and was hoping to find some that were dimmable. I guess I could just put in a junction box for hard wired.

banjoflyer posted:

mike g. posted:

Hi Everyone, I mounted outlets in the ceiling for shop lights and was hoping to find some that were dimmable. I guess I could just put in a junction box for hard wired.

Here's one:

 

 

 

Great looking light, do you have them, if so how hard are they to wire?

I wonder if the dimmable LED fixtures will interfere with a TMCC signal, if you are running Command And they are directly plugged into an outlet.  The dimmers themselves do give out a RF signal and maybe this would be a problem?  Just a thought to research.

Patrick1544 posted:

I wonder if the dimmable LED fixtures will interfere with a TMCC signal, if you are running Command And they are directly plugged into an outlet.  The dimmers themselves do give out a RF signal and maybe this would be a problem?  Just a thought to research.

Doubt it.  FCC has rigorous emissions testing for our dimmers. Also we dont want outside rf messing with our dimmers sp we shield the crucial bits and filter where we need to.  Cant speak for the fixtures.

mike g. posted:

banjoflyer posted:

mike g. posted:

Hi Everyone, I mounted outlets in the ceiling for shop lights and was hoping to find some that were dimmable. I guess I could just put in a junction box for hard wired.

Here's one:

Great looking light, do you have them, if so how hard are they to wire?

The description says flush mount. That means hard wired, not plug in.

I was looking at that, but if that's all I can find It would work for me! The other option is to hang a wire down to it cause it makes its connection inside the housing!

That Hampton Bay fixture from Home Depot that banjoflyer linked to is the lighting I installed in my basement. I don't have mine on dimmers (just the train room track lighting is on dimmers), but the Hampton Bay fixtures are hardwired and dimmable if you so desire.

Allan, may I ask the spacing of your lights? My room is 12' X 24'. Just wondering how many I will need?

Mike- If I could chime in here .

The national electrical code does not permit dimming receptacles as John D mentioned, for exactly that reason. If you really want dimable lighting then I would recommend putting up two sets of lights. Use the shop lights for general illumination, on a switch, but add a set of track lights, on a separate dimmer, to illuminate the layout during opp sessions.

Since you have a rectangular room, a single line of track in the center of the ceiling running the length of the room can take care of it. This would allow you to put up as many lights as you want and will really make the layout pop. Look at some of Frank @Moonson layout photos. He has track lighting over his layout.

It is more expensive but would solve your problem. If you want to stay with just the shop lights then remove the receptacles and hard-wire the fixtures right into the box.  Keep searching the net- dimable fixtures are out there.

Bob

Hi Bob, I think what I am going to do is get the ones that Allan and Banjoflyer are talking about and just hard wire them in! I will take the boxes out and put in some round boxes for fixed lights! 

I am on such a small budget and want to keep it moving forward! LOL

I am just wondering if 3 lights will be enough?

Thanks Mark, your right it kinda shocked me! My ceiling slops from 9' to 6' at its lowest which is on the outside wall of my train room so at that point the lights will only be about 3' off the top of the layout.

Thanks Mark, the thing I am looking at right now is I have an open ceiling and its the best time to wire it. Right now its wired for 3 lights like your last drawing, but if I need more I could do it now.

Another factor that could effect your happiness with your final decision is the wave length.  I prefer LED's with a 2700K spec.  This is the closest to incandescent,  One manuacturer's "warm white"  designation might be different than an other's.  The Kelvin rating should be more precise, however, like the sizing of Chinese made garments there is no guarantee of accuracy. 

Also, see if you can get a UV factor as you would want to avoid this so as to preserve the paint on the trains (as well as your skin's integrity).

Alan

Mike not sure if you want to consider this idea, but I have both 48 inch LED tubes plus some inexpensive Home Depot Track lighting that takes PAR 30 lamps....   I have 12 cans on the track, with a combination of 2700K and 3000K LED floodlights.   These are "dimmable", the 48 inch lights are not.   The advantage for me with the track lighting is that I can put extra light where I want it.  All 12 cans only draw 1 amp of current, I was surpised it was this low.    You might consider putting one more ceiling box in that you could run track lighting off of.    

Rough costs:    I purchased 2 x 8 foot long tracks at about $20 each.   the cans cost around $7.50 each, the tie into to the ceiling box and joiner was around $10.00,   the most expensive 75 watt equivalent dimmable LED flood light lamp (Par 30, like 4.75 inch diamter) was just under $5.50 from Hyperikon.    I mounted the dimmer at the normal wall switch location for the track lighting.  If its something you want more info on email me.   Chris a

ajzend posted:

Another factor that could effect your happiness with your final decision is the wave length.  I prefer LED's with a 2700K spec.  This is the closest to incandescent...

Alan

I agree with Alan.  I can't tolerate house lighting not close to 2700K.  I've redone my basement ceilings. All the shop lights are gone.  Replaced with recessed lighting fixtures and 2700K LED's with an occasional 3000k to specifically highlight an area. All of these are dimmable.

I stay away from any LED above 3000K.  The one thing don't want is for my house to look like a doctor's office.

One other thing you can check is voltage and lumens. You can find 2700K LED lighting with lumens anywhere from 450 to 700.  The higher the lumen number, the brighter the light.

Fred

There is a lot of good info & suggestions here. One thing I would suggest is to check your local codes as you may not have to change the boxes or mud rings you have already installed.

You might also consider incandescent circuits with dimmers to simulate light conditions at various  times of day such as dusk,  sunrise and evening.

Mike- a single row of lights in the center will leave you working in shadows all the time. If you want to use just the shop lights then put in two rows. The lower row at just 6' is going to be tricky. The light will be right in your face unless the fixtures have a hood that blocks the light from coming out the side of the lens. When I was wiring houses I would always set kitchen Hihats at 24" from the wall. This is the depth of the counters so the light would be right over head thereby eliminating shadows.

Lot's of good advice from others- especially on the color temperature of the lighting. I use 3000K LED's in my house. They are a good compromise between the higher and lower colors. I've seen many comments on the forum from some guys who like the higher temps (4-5K) and some lower. It is personal preference and I'm on the lower side. Check in HD or Lowes- they usually have a working display of the various lamps. The lower numbers are more toward the red side of the spectrum and the higher more blue. If you have a lighting store in your area then stop in and talk to the sales people. Most of the stores in my area have lighting designers that can give you solid advice.

My recommendation would be to put in the 6 shop lights and run a wire for track lighting that you could install later. Mount a 4" round box where you would start the track and just put a blank cover on it for now. Once the sheetrock is up it's a lot harder to add it later.

Bob

You will eventually want to add a strip blue leds or a set of track lites with blue bulbs.

Big Mike,

Seems everybody likes different kinds of Train Room lightening, mine is LED Soft White and along with the white Train Room everything shows up just great, on all levels.

PCRR/Dave

Hi everyone, just thought I would give an update. I plan on doing 2 rows of shop lights just on a switch, then a row of track lighting down the center with can lights pointed in both directions of the room towards the layout for when I want to dim the lights for night time!

Solid plan Mike. You will not be disappointed.

Bob

I have been working with Chris A from the forum for a lighting plan. I think after working with him I might just put 4 shop lights in and the track lighting. I already have it wired for 6 shop lights if I have to add 2 more so be it!

I have a big wrinkle on your problem in that my layout is underneath a preexisting overhead lighting system that includes  a just failed ceiling fan.My plans are to have two cups of strong coffee tomorrow morning then to wear my moccasins and gently step onto the supporting table between the rails.  If you hear a crash from there you will know that Plan B will be put into place after I recover

overbore

Good luck with that one! While your up there put in some track lighting !

Mike, Adjustable trac lighting was installed some time ago-- the same song different verse- I was 70 some time ago now working on 81 with what still works Graham

overbore posted:

Mike, Adjustable trac lighting was installed some time ago-- the same song different verse- I was 70 some time ago now working on 81 with what still works Graham

Dang Graham, you keep up the great work! I hope I am still getting onto the layout when I get there! I have a hard time as it is! LOL

Since we moved to the beach, I now have a small space (12'x10' room) with an around-the-wall layout now under construction on Mianne benchwork.  I spent quite a bit of time doing basic lighting up to and including sophisticated lighting for the room/layout before I started any sort of building.  I had an advisor for the lighting ... a son-in-law who is a movie cinematographer (and a member of the ASC).  He knows his lighting.  

Layout is two levels ... 40" and 57" on Mianne benchwork.  The layout track, accessory & are operationally intensive.  Ceiling is ten feet high.

There are five groups of lights in the room:

1.  Two LED, non-dimmable, shop-type lights (5000K) hanging ten inches from the ceiling that are used only for construction (used most often up to this point).  Very bright - and spacing allows for great light for work....

2.  A RR lantern suspended from the ceiling over the control area as well as a hidden 10' LED rope light that highlights a couple of shelves of my P/W collection.  These LED lights are dimmable & 3000K.   Will be generally used while operating layout.

3.  Three sets of four-light track LED lights (3000K), dimmable, placed about 8 feet off the floor (ceiling is 10' high).  Dimmable, of course, and to be used operating the layout.  These are the primary "operating" lights.

4.  One track light (three incandescent bulbs) of BLUE lights placed a couple of feet or so above the layout to provide "moonlighting" with or without the other lights.  Dimmable.  Seems to be most effective when on alone.  These are the only incandescent lights I allow in the trainroom (unless the bulbs are on a train).

5.  A number of RR signs (Lionel, etc.) that light from within.  Not dimmable. Good display, but probably will be too intense while running trains.  We'll see.

All or none can be on while running trains ... just depends on the situation and "mood".

I just removed one ceiling  screw from my failed room fan. Enough high altitude work for the day ; ; one more tomorrow. Detractors might say I have a screw loose but it is intentional and somewhat accurate . My lights have an integral rheo on them so that their intensity is adjustable-from the ground.

Graham