Trains, Trolleys, and Diners: The real story

I visited the Steaming Tender Restaurant in Palmer, MA during the 2009 NMRA convention.  They have a restored diner as part of the restaurant.  Here are some photos that I took.

This is the restaurant's website.  It has an interesting history.

http://steamingtender.com/palmer-union-station/

NH Joe

Thanks for posting, NH Joe.  Nice photos but personally I would called that a "restored dining car" to avoid confusion with the specific diner architecture :-}.  I was actually considering stopping in Palmer on my vacation (if I ever get around to scheduling a vacation, that is). Those photos are tempting me.

And, in a truly odd twist of fate, it seems as though we have lost one more trolley-turned-diner. The Veteran's Diner in RI is now ... no, not gone but ... a trolley again!  Check out:

http://www.classiccars.ws/proj...adtrolley/index.html

Well, and I guess why not? But as a fan of both diners and trolleys, it's hard to know which incarnation to root for.  At least I got to photograph it when it was a "diner".

Tomlinson Run RR

The old "Sterling Diners" certainly had the general appearance of a railroad car. I remember there was one near Fairport NY and my brother's girl friend was a waitress there in the 1960's.

 photo from internet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diner

Inspired by the streamlined trains, and especially the Burlington Zephyr, Roland Stickney designed a diner in the shape of a streamlined train called the Sterling Streamliner in 1939.^[1] Built by the J.B. Judkins coach company, who had built custom car bodies,^[2] the Sterling and other diner production ceased in 1942 at the beginning of American involvement in World War II.

The one diner I tried to find was one made from a McKeen car in the Toledo, Ohio area.  I found it had been destroyed by fire.  Judkins made custom bodies often found on recognized classic 1920's Lincoln automobiles with the Leland designed 60 degree V-8 engine.

Kind of (sorta) related, does anyone remember the Victoria Station restaurant chain? http://www.vicsta.com/#!Victoria Station Denver/zoom/cp3k/image3a9

Ace, that photo reminds me of a Silk City-built (rare) diner in Lake George, NY. Sadly, I just learned that it burned. If this trend of diner restaurants that I've visted disappearing keeps up, I'm going to have to switch to dinner trains and converted train station restaurants for my foodie "life list". Or, better yet, perhaps I'd best stay away. 

CO Highrailer, you've piqued my interest - tomorrow I'll check out my 2011 list to see if the Toledo McKeen conversion was in it.  It's great when you can arrange a trip to combine hobbies, interests, and of course, good food but so disappointing when you find something hasn't survived or if lucky was moved.

UPDATE: Fixed embarrasing typo.

Yes! There was a Victoria's Station in Burlington, MA that I once ate at but it is long gone.  Now there's a kit-bashing project where you could utilize a bunch of those unpainted boxcars normally intended to be made into a hobo hotel ...

Tomlinson Run Railroad 

Yes, I too, have seen and once ate in a Victoria's Station Restaurant, I think it was in Columbus, Ohio, and I saw another maybe in Louisville, Kentucky.  I remember all the boxcars around it, and the closed facility, before it was torn down.   Here in the midwest we seemed to get the chain restaurants before the east, such as McDonald's (I ate at the only one in my college town while in school) in the late 1950's, and when I began trips to central and eastern Pa. about 1970,  I had trouble finding appealing places to eat.  We did not like the atmosphere of "diners".   No problem finding any chain restaurants there now!  Now, of course, I like to find good, different, restaurants, but when traveling there is sometimes comfort in familiarity.  Several restaurant chains, Sambo's for one, that I frequented, have vanished.  

Many years ago when I went to Erie, Pa. on business  I ate in a restaurant that was a rail car, not a dining car. I have no idea if it is still there.

I checked, and there was a Victoria's Station in Louisville, Kentucky, that I never got to.  The above posting reminds me of a rail car that was a resturant on a siding in northwest Columbus, Ohio.  I ate there once, and it was gone.

tripleo posted:

Kind of (sorta) related, does anyone remember the Victoria Station restaurant chain? http://www.vicsta.com/#!Victoria Station Denver/zoom/cp3k/image3a9

Yes, I absolutely do!  Their prime rib and salad bar were awesome!  The building incorporated old boxcars.

The last one I recall seeing (is it still there?) was near the mall in Bedford, MA.  There used to be one in Monroeville, PA, but I haven't driven through that area in years.

George

https://oregonencyclopedia.org..._c1921_005568_sm.jpg

The former Oregon Electric station in Eugene Oregon is now a restaurant and bar with rail cars behind the station serving as dining rooms. It's within a block of the Amtrak station.

http://www.oesrestaurant.com/gallery/

photo by Ace 2003

In the 1970's the building was used for a regional branch of the Portland OMSI museum. The inside of the building was divided up into separate areas with lower ceilings and a planetarium, losing all the character of the original station. In back were an old SP&S baggage car and coach, used for a museum-affiliated model railroad club layout and classroom space. I had a weekend job at the museum during my early high school years, and was also involved with the model railroad club where I made some lifelong friends.

This was the OE track arrangement at the Eugene old depot circa 1970: Portland to the left, end of track at right.

The building was sold after 1980 and redeveloped into the present restaurant, which has restored much of the original character of the station. The baggage car which housed the model railroad was converted into a kitchen area, I heard. You can see some of the rail cars in Google street views, although they are mostly roofed over now. The museum had two baggage cars and a coach; the restaurant redevelopment brought in some additional rolling stock by truck.

Oregon Electric Station, Eugene Oregon

photo by Ace 1970

RS3 locos like BN#4065 (still in SP&S paint) used to go down 5th Street until the tracks were paved over in the 1970's. I have photos of an old SP&S baggage car being delivered (donated) to the museum circa 1970, if I ever get the slides scanned.

The former Oregon Electric Station in Albany Oregon is now a pizza restaurant. The architecture is similar to the Eugene station, but smaller.

photos by Ace 2007

Oregon Electric passenger service down the Willamette Valley ended in 1933, but these two former stations have survived as restaurants.

George,

The Victoria Station you remember in Bedford, Mass. may have been the one I went to. It was across the highway from the Burlington Mall.  The Bedford and Burlington town lines are very close at Mall Road. According to the following website, the only one of the chain left in the US was the last one built. It's in Salem, MA and looks gorgeous with large windows opening to the waterfront:

http://www.victoriastationsalem.com/1006/Page.aspx

In the second video, on the restaurant's Videos page, the manager says the Salem restaurant was the 99th and last one because number 100 was never built. And, she continues, Salem was the only one that didn't have seating in boxcars "which was a good thing".   To each her own :-).  However, there is a wall of RR memorabilia visible in the background of the video.

Trolleys->Diners->Trolleys Again/Streamliner Moderne

I've got some serious weekend errands to devote myself to right now. (It's like a 100 degrees in Mass. again and I simply MUST make sorbet before I along with the strawberries wilt). Later, hopefully I can scan and post my photos of two Sterling Streamliner-styled diners. The front ends will look VERY familiar to RR fans. One is still in Salem, MA.  So fans of Victoria Station, streamliner moderne styling, and diners can have a photo and food field day.

Also, I found a great picture of another trolley turned diner turned trolley again and will post the link.  Getting back to the original thrust of this post, I now have this observation: while the number of retired RR cars and trolleys that were repurposed as diner-style restaurants is much smaller than the manufacturers of plastic or wood layout models would lead us to believe, the conversion (encasement) of some into "diners" has saved at least two for restoration as trolleys. So far,  no evidence of a railroad car turned "diner" turned RR car again. Just joking.  There's no need ... unless maybe it was super rare.

On the other hand, when real diners burn or are the victims of arson, which they seem to often be when empty and even when active, they either go to the scrap heap or sit rotting in a field somewhere. Sound familiar? Both hobbies have dedicated preservationists, but sadly, you can't save them all.

Sorbet becons.

Tomlinson Running Out of Patience With This Heat Railroad

The 1910 McKeen car I alluded to, now restored:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Railway_Motor_Car_22

TRRR

Ace, you have a great sense of history and railroading (real and model), and great pictures to back it up.  I loved seeing the track plan. Thanks!

Here are photos of the Sterling Streamliner diners that I have visited.  Sterling was the manufacturer and Streamliner the model name.  A clear RR knockoff. The handful of surviving Streamliners apparently have fallen on hard times, including one of these. The side view should be very familiar to RR enthusiasts!  Of course the food fare between the country's most "moderne" trains and community diners couldn't have been more different, but there's no hiding the fact that the architecture in this case was directly copying the famous engines.

Another possible source for the tight coupling/conflation of diner architecture with dining cars and trolleys in the popular mind may be a direct result of how diner owners named their restaurants.  In the Sterling Streamliner link below, you'll see how frequently "Flyer" appears in the title, such as "Yankee Flyer" and "Penn State Flyer"; and then there was the one named "Dining Car".  Very suggestive of popular regional trains.  Perhaps the 'Dining Car' owner was trying to present an image of the RR dining car, which provided the finest fresh food to set each road apart from the competition. In the illustrations in this link, notice also the use of portholes on the center doors.  You'll also see some diner buildings with dual slanted ends -- they look a bit like an MU, don't they? :-)  Other diners, including at least one Streamliner knock-off, can be found with "trolley" in their names, too.

    https://dinerhunter.com/2012/0...erling-streamliners/

Lastly, I'm including two railroad-themed diner photos that aren't Streamliners, along with an especially photogenic "semi-streamliner".  I'm not aware of any 'semi-streamliner' design equivalent in the train world but they remind me a bit of Pullman or heavy passenger cars.  For the restaurants, the stainless steel was sometimes an add-on over the original enamel siding.

Enjoy!

Tomlinson Run Railroad

P.S. -- Like RR stock and trolleys, most diners had builder's plates with a serial number.

Examples of Streamliners

1940 Sterling Streamliner #406, formerly in Salem, NH. Now apparently sitting in a field in CT since 2005.  The slanted side's windows are covered in this picture but the web contains others were they are visible -- along with a classic chevron stripe across the front. 8/27/1994.

1941 Sterling Streamliner #4110, Pawtucket, RI. Checkout the slanted end, the windows, and that great paint. This one still has its chevron. Summer 2000.

Examples of RR-influenced Names

The Pig 'n Whistle, 1952 Mountain View (mfr). Brighton, MA. It got its name from the stockyards and railroads that were once near by.  This one is now closed but still standing. 24 June 2000.

Henry's Diner, now The Breakfast Club. Worcester #841, Allston, MA. This one's a puzzle: from Google satellite there are no obvious former RR tracks nearby, and yet this diner sports a railroad crossing sign topped by a chef's hat!  Cute by unfathonable to me :-}.

Photogenic Semi-streamliner

1941 The Rosebud Diner, Worcester #773, Davis Square, Somerville, MA (take the "T" to it!) 6/24/2000.

Yep, I remember Victoria Station in Alexandria and Fairfax VA, Gaithersburg MD, and also Willow Grove PA. Each one had an assortment of real rolling stock converted into dining areas.

P-Town Caboose Coffee Shop in Pacifica, CA.  Matt

For kicks I'm researching which former RR cars and trolleys are still functioning as "diners" since I created a list of known ones some years ago.  In the process, I uncovered the fact that one so-called diner consisted of not one but seven RR cars (per an article; Google shows five visible).  Sort of a Victoria Station before there was such a thing.

One car was supposed to be FDR's reelection car and because there was a recent post about FDR's car's I thought I'd post the following link.  Scroll past the Chinese food photos to get to the interior shots of the Presidential Car. It's now part of the "Orient Express" (nee Andy's Diner) in So. Seattle, Washington:

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsou...ailcar_my_lunch.html

Nice woodwork!  There's a brief mention of the prior history of one of the other railroad cars as well.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

There's a Birney car that is part of a restaurant in Skippack, PA.

On the old diner front we ate at the Cloister Restaurant in Ephrata PA whose modern exterior hides a classic stainless diner from somewhere in the 30's to the 50's.  They were closing so I couldn't see if there was any manufacturing information or "tag" as the diner site on the web calls them.

It even has opening windows reminiscent of a passenger car or school bus window. 

Here's a post card shot from thebay:

Rule292/Rob, thanks for the tip about the Birney car. It wasn't on my old list -- maybe because it wasn't pretending to be a diner?  The all-knowing, all-seeing interweb has a picture of it when it was The Trolley Stop on Rt. 73 in Skippack, PA.  It's an undisguised trolley. The blog post says it was painted in the colors of the Reading Transit System.

Today it is part of the Hotel Fiesole in Skippack and sporting a new look:

Hotel Fiesole with Birney Restaurant

Interior of the Trolley 

A very toney looking hotel has some how successfully grafted a Birney trolley onto its front and made the whole thing look classy and oh so European.

The Ephrata restaurant where you ate is hiding a circa 1950 Silk City-manufactured diner.  What a great postcard!

Thanks for a most interesting pointer to a nicely restored and functional bit of transportation history.

Tomlinson Run Railroad 

In continuing my investigation into the historic and present conversion of rail and trolley cars into diner-style restaurants, I found this excellent compilation from the Illinois Railway Museum's Hicks Car Works blog.  There are plenty of photos to enjoy: 

IL Railway Museum Blog on RR and Trolley "Diners"

Some of the information is out-of-date and some links no longer work.  However, by combining their data with my own and some serious Googling, I identified about 54 still extant examples across the country -- a number considerably higher than previously recorded by diner historians. The restaurants are roughly divided between repurposed RR cars and trolleys or interurban cars. Regional patterns are emerging, too -- they are more often found in states without nearby diner manufacturers.  Of course, that observation needs to be balanced by how many true diners where in the region, the era, the economy, and etc.

Because this is a miscellaneous *photo* post, I hope to get some pics up soon.  Initial impressions of the many photos out there suggest that there was a strong connection made between rail and restaurant: rail/city transportation designs inspired small restaurants and restauranteurs actively choose to interpret and market their buildings by making that connection.

A final note: true restaurant diner architecture evolved from horse-drawn lunch wagons. The restaurant was set up on a small plot of unused land and then removed at night to avoid town ordinances.  My research revealed that around 2013, several road-rated trolley cars were converted into mobile eateries.  No doubt this was part of the still ongoing explosion of popular celebrity-chef style food trucks. Thus, the design and function has come full circle as these eateries are once again mobile and parked on unused plots of land by day and driven off by night. Sadly, in just these three years, most trolley restaurants seem to have folded.  Of course, being mobile, they could have moved on ... :-).

My hope is make a state-by-state list available so that any of you with an interest in this design intersection can take your cameras and your empty stomachs to find examples near you. By adding photos to share here and through your patronage, we have two great ways to help preserve these bits of history.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Simply fascinating information - thanks for sharing and keeping the history alive!

- Greg

Thanks for your kind words of encouragement, Greg.  I appreciate it.

One more note to add: apparently restaurants claiming to have an FDR car are as common as inns claiming a visit by George Washington.  The story behind the car and link in my August 16 post has been challenged by several bloggers.  Regardless, it is still a beautifully crafted interior, which has survived.

TRRR

tripleo posted:

Kind of (sorta) related, does anyone remember the Victoria Station restaurant chain? http://www.vicsta.com/#!Victoria Station Denver/zoom/cp3k/image3a9

There was a Victoria Station in Southfield, Michigan (a suburb of Detroit) and it was one of our favorite places.  But I guess others didn't think so, and now it's gone.  If you're looking for a classic "diner", the Henry Ford museum in Dearborn has a restored one inside called Lamy's, originally from Massachusetts.  Serves 50s style fare as part of an experience.  Never was a railroad car, but the style resembles it. 

Jerry, great to read that Lamy's is serving food again. Massachusetts's loss is Michigan's gain.  The diner was built in 1946 and is a semi-streamliner Worcester Lunch Car model just like the Rosebud pictured in my post.  So, absolutely, there's a railroad influence there.  Do I remember correctly that the museum also has an original (or reproduction?) lunch wagon of the type that eventually gave rise to the architectural form?

Tomlinson Run Railroad  

This evening I just stumbled on yet another interurban car turned diner turned ... well it's waiting to be restored back to an interurban car by the Seashore Trolley Museum in Kennebunkport, Maine.  I'm not sure if some of the photos of the trolley and its diner incarnation are copyrighted, so I'll just provide links.

The Berkshire Hills was built in 1902 by Wason Manufacturing Co. as a very high-end electric parlor car.  Wason was a J. G. Brill subsidiary, which along with the parent company, also built restaurant diner buildings.  Around 1932?, the car was sold for $300 and became the Berkshire Hills Diner in Pittsfield, MA.  The diner became part of a larger restaurant that had a fire in 1994. This event paved the way for the car's shell to be donated to the Trolley Museum, where it is currently in storage.

Parlor car historical and technical details from the Seashore Trolley Museum:

https://www.trolleymuseum.org/collection/National/297

The car's diner phase:
http://forum.bustalk.info/view...da235761bcb7ecfc0808

Pictures of the original car and the later diner together:
https://sites.google.com/site/...ogram-8--more-photos

Some nice historical photographs, including a fantastic interior view (also shown in a link above):
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com...satonic_1903_092.htm
http://www.newdavesrailpix.com...ksquare_1904_028.htm
http://newdavesrailpix.com/ber...lls_interior_091.htm

Surprises: some 50's-ish diner buildings had rounded ends with curved glass windows at the building's "corners". This is something that would seem impractical in a rail car, interurban, or trolley because of the way cars were connected and or people would enter and exit the cars. But apparently the Berkshire Hills had some curved glass windows.  From the pictures it looks like it might have been on the car ends.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Speaking of J. G. Brill, here is a Brill-manufactured diner from the 1940s as it looked in 2000. It is at 323 Main Street, Wakefield, South Kingston, RI.  A quick Google check shows that it looks even less like a trolley-inspired building now than it did when I took this photo:

In 2000 it was the Kiddie Closet. Now it's the "velvet [sic] Revolution: wardrobe revival".

UPDATE: Here's the side view for more of that Brill trolley feel:

From Streamliner to Trolley

This post started out by talking about companies that manufactured "real" diner buildings, and the fact that instead some people used decomissioned railroad, interurban, or trolley cars as the basis for their restaurant buildings.  And they often played up a train or transportation connection in architectural touches or in the restaurant's name.  Some people even built their own buildings from scratch.  Even then, the draw to mimic aspects from American transportation was strong.  Here's a diner I visited today that has it all!  It morphed from a home-made double-ended streamliner train-style diner to a trolley.  Now that's progress! :-}

The streamliner diner look was patented by Roland L. Stickney. Apparently, he was an automobile designer.  Here's the patent via patent-room.com.  Notice that is shows port-hole windows and not the slits that the streamliner diners ended up with (see prior posts).  The porthole shape ties in "moderne" ocean liners as well, and we know that portholes sometimes appeared in railroad stock and on plenty of Lionel cabooses:

From 1945 to 1950, Donald Evans -- a Salisbury, Massachusetts man -- built a rare double-ended streamliner himself.  The chrome center door that he used came from an earlier diner built by the Worcester Lunch Car Co. and owned by his brother.  Perhaps by the time he finished in 1950, the moderne design craze had started to move on to the chrome craze?   Regardless, it was called Evans' Streamliner, suggesting that the look and appeal continued a bit longer.  Here's a black and white print of a John Baeder painting after the diner was moved to Lowell to its current location and renamed (from an online auction site).  It was painted light blue and moved in 1956:

Click here to see its red phase and read the restaurant's history (scroll down about mid-page for Gorham Street Diner). This post contains photos of its amazing transformation in 1981 from a double-ended streamliner  to a ... trolley car!  (It doesn't get much better than this.)

https://dinerhotline.wordpress...s-circa-early-1980s/

So, had the lore of the train faded from memory while the trolley image surged ahead?  Was a trolley more familiar to the city dwellers of Lowell?  Here is the Trolley Stop in 1991 (my photo). Notice the railroad bridge on the right that says "Welcome to Prince Spaghettiville":

And here's the diner as it looks today.  Just as I pulled up, the MBTA (Boston) Commuter Rail went by. It would have made a great shot had I not been driving:

With all the hoopla on the side about "Lowell's Historic" ... you'd think that this building was an actual trolley car but we know better.  Inside there are two paintings of the streamliner version in red -- one with Rock Island and Maine Central boxcars visible on the four-track girder bridge.  There's also a nice photograph of a U.S. Mail trolley from I believe the Boston area.  In the full shot from today, if you look closely at the entrance windows, you can see fake etched glass.  All in all, it's very nicely done and a pleasant place to visit. The windows were amazingly clean and I would have loved to have taken a photograph from a window in the "trolley" entrance of a train going by. But that would have been a long wait (Saturday PM schedule).

For those of you who missed seeing rivets and real converted RR/interurban/trolleys, here's an "art shot" of the girder bridge:

Question to ponder: Why do you think trolleys as an image for food establishments are so popular? When the railroad declined and buses and autos ascended, were trolleys somehow seen as something in between?  Is it easier for later generations to identify with them because they ran on streets like city buses or are used to move tourists about?

Tomlinson Run Railroad

While on vacation this week, I had hoped to photograph and eat at Sisson's Diner, a 1926 Wason trolley, which has been a restaurant in Middleboro, MA for years.  However, driving any where near Cape Cod on Labor Day weekend seemed foolhardy.  So I improvised: I ate at a real diner and then went in search of what I thought was a static trolley car display a few blocks away at Lowell, MA's Boott Mill.  It was a lucky day;  I got two cars that it turns out actually run in this city, and an antique diner to "Boott".

Featured are: the Cameo Diner (builder unknown); a 1924 New Orleans Perley-Thomas-built trolley; an accurate reproduction open air trolley; and the 1930s Paradise Diner (Worcester Lunch Car Co.).  Now I understand why the Trolley Stop Diner's makeover from a streamliner train to a trolley in the previous post is a big deal in this city.

Enjoy!

Tomlinson Run Railroad

First, brunch in a real neighborhood diner:

Across the river and a few blocks away, the 1835 Boott Cotton Mills, a National Park Service trolley stop:

The trolleys are coming (open-sided repro on the left, New Orleans Brill on the right):

Changing direction:

This stop has an intriguing second track and a trolley siding that goes past a 1930s diner, across a steel and wooden bridge over the canal, and into the rear of the mill building.  Very interesting.  Any ideas as to its original function?  It was clearly electrified once.

Many real diners have this stained glass detailing on the transom window -- often in orange.  Is there an equivalent motif on railroad car transom windows?

"Art shot" with canal, trolley, and a "green monstah" building:

This green open air building along the trolley track, opposite the mill, and the "power canal" is now set up for outdoor performances.  It struck me as: 1. once having housed a facility for generating electrical power  2. a modern creation made to look old and 3. very steampunk in nature. I have no clue. Do you?

Great photos !!  Thanks for posting. Based on your interests you must be from the P-burgh area. 

This is a pretty cool thread.

jim pastorius posted:

Great photos !!  Thanks for posting. Based on your interests you must be from the P-burgh area. 

Thanks, Jim.  Glad you liked them.  Yes, I'm originally from Pittsburgh. There's lots of modeling inspiration to be found in Pittsburgh and surrounding locales and, fortunately, lots of available models.  The Boston area isn't too shabby either :-).

TRRR 

suzukovich posted:

This is a pretty cool thread.

Thanks, Suzukovich. I'm hoping that others will be inspired to post some railcar-trolley pix or share their favorite RR-inspired restaurants/diners even if they aren't 100% on topic.  Some more examples from areas beyond the northeast would be nice.

Best,

Tomlinson Run Railroad

TomlinsonRunRR posted:

Jerry, great to read that Lamy's is serving food again. Massachusetts's loss is Michigan's gain.  The diner was built in 1946 and is a semi-streamliner Worcester Lunch Car model just like the Rosebud pictured in my post.  So, absolutely, there's a railroad influence there.  Do I remember correctly that the museum also has an original (or reproduction?) lunch wagon of the type that eventually gave rise to the architectural form?

Tomlinson Run Railroad  

Tomlinson,

For years Lamy's was just a static display when brought to Dearborn in 1984, but as of around 2010, it now serves food again.  Mr. Lamy (a WWII vet) opened the diner in 1946 in Marlborough, MA, Moved to Framingham, MA shortly after, then moved to Hudson, MA in 1947, then sold the diner in 1949.

I work in Greenfield Village, part of the Henry Ford, and drive the Model Ts there.  Lamy's is in the Museum part, but I drive by the Owl Night Lunch wagon every day at least 4 dozen times!  The Henry Ford's Owl Night Lunch wagon served nighttime workers in Detroit in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Among its customers was Henry Ford, a young engineer working at Edison Illuminating Company during the 1890s. Ford acquired the Owl in 1927 and moved it to Greenfield Village, where it served as the first food service operation.  Here's a photo of it in 1935 when it served hot dogs and hamburgers along with fries and drinks. 

Later on, it was painted its original colors and presently serves drinks and lighter fare.  It's where I get my morning caffeine fix!

And, yes, it's the original one!  BTW, on the right in the photo is the Wright Brothers' Cycle shop.  The original one!

A Kissin' Cousin to trolleys were the inclines that went up the sides of steep hills. Has anyone, anywhere ,ever modeled one ?? Some of these two tiered layouts would be a natural for one. A Lionel bump-n-go  power unit would work.  Pittsburgh still has two on Mt. Washington and Johnstown, Pa. has one.  At one time Pittsburgh had almost a dozen !!!  One carried coal up to the top and another had a curve in the track.

Jerry,

I'm scanning and assmbling some goodies in response to your great reply.  Stay tuned!

Jim,

I think PittsburghRailFan or someone with a similar handle containing "Pittsburgh" has modeled the Mt. Washington incline on the side of their railroad layout. I saw it on a you tube video a while ago and thought the whole layout was great capturing varios industries, but I was especially impressed that he tackled an incline.

Also, within the last week on this Forum, someone posted a picture of their father's cog incline that they just got set up to run on an angled board.  You might have luck seaching for it as it was very recent.  Now there's an entirely different kind of "third-rail" :-).

 Tomlinson Run Railroad

I saw the cog RR pictures, it was on My Father's Cool Toys. An LGB  unit. Not too sure about riding in one of those although the incline is OK. I could never get my wife near the  Pgh. inclines. Will look for the YouTube one.

Well...they were never converted to any kind of eateries, but here are some pics of the restored trolleys and PCC streetcars that currently run in San Francisco. The PCC's...from the 1940's-50's are from American cities such as Baltimore, Washington, DC, Chicago, Boston and New Orleans.  The trolleys are from around the world.   

Matt

"Spaghetti Warehouse is an Italian restaurant geared towards families with 13 locations in 6 U.S. states. Each restaurant has a trolley car in the dining room and patrons are able to sit in the car." 
We visit the Columbus OH location regularly. The food is awesome, by the way!

I can still remember as a kid the first time I climbed on a new PCC car in Pittsburgh as a little kid. Before  that it was the old yellow ones. I was awestruck my the PCCs.   Pgh. had one of the largest fleets  but the only one around sits in the Heinz History Center.

poniaj posted:

=snip=

I work in Greenfield Village, part of the Henry Ford, and drive the Model Ts there.  Lamy's is in the Museum part, but I drive by the Owl Night Lunch wagon every day at least 4 dozen times!  The Henry Ford's Owl Night Lunch wagon served nighttime workers in Detroit in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. =snip= Ford acquired the Owl in 1927 and moved it to Greenfield Village, where it served as the first food service operation.  Here's a photo of it in 1935 when it served hot dogs and hamburgers along with fries and drinks. 

Later on, it was painted its original colors and presently serves drinks and lighter fare.  It's where I get my morning caffeine fix!

And, yes, it's the original one!  =snip=

Jerry,

You are one lucky man!  What a great playground within which you work.  And I love the fact that you get your morning coffee at the original Owl Night Lunch, so beautifully restored.  As you no doubt know, it was built in the style of a Thomas H. Buckley lunch wagon c1900.  I think there's only one Buckley left and it was incorporated into someone's house here in Mass.  Mr. Edison was a very forward thinking man.

Here's a photograph of a reproduction of the Owl Night Lunch cart that is on permanent loan to the Tomlinson Run Railroad.  It's especially popular on excursion days.  The blond on the right is me, except that I'm not blonde and I gave up wearing heels years ago (otherwise, it's a dead ringer).

But seriously, I love the stained glass windows in the Greenfield Village restoration.  Beautifully crafted windows are something that fancy rail cars and trolleys, and the early wooden lunch wagon diners shared.  Years ago I worked at the Worcester (MA) Historical Museum.  Worcester was the site of diner and car manufacturing. The collections contained four deep ruby-colored etched glass windows from an early lunch cart.  They were stunning and I assume an incredibly rare survival.  The museum moved near the (colossal) restored Worcester train station.  Unfortunately, the museum is a bit of a hassle to get to now,  so I haven't visited to see whether the panels are on display.

Here are two surviving etched windows from a 1925 Worcester-built lunch wagon that still serves hot dogs, Casey's in Framingham, MA. They are Flora and Winter, respectively:

Photo Challenge: Can any forum members supply photos of railroad car etched glass windows?

Lastly, you are in luck, Jerry!  Just north of you is the Flint Trolley Ice Cream and Cafe -- part of the new food truck craze.  The trolley came from Austin, TX but no other details are forthcoming. Perhaps one of you experts can ID it?  The photo was a 2013 "courtesy photo" off the internet prior to restoration. Here are some links, including a video:

TV Newstory with video
The original vision/Austin, TX photograph source

Matt,

Your San Francisco photos are a "San Francisco treat" as the old jingle goes. I especially like the angle of the last one. It captures real movement and those great design lines.  It's also neat that the city has included trolleys from around the world, as well as PCCs.

Consulting my recently created list of rail, interurban, and trolley cars serving food, you too are in luck if you are in the SF area. The Grubstake II Diner's was originally built from a Key System car. It has been serving food since 1927:

2016 Grubstake redevelopment plans: weird planned new placement!
Another forum's discussion about this and another CA diner

And another one of the two from CA with photos

TRRR (the media seems a bit confused between RR and trolleys)

Aerogipsy posted:

"Spaghetti Warehouse is an Italian restaurant geared towards families with 13 locations in 6 U.S. states. Each restaurant has a trolley car in the dining room and patrons are able to sit in the car." 
We visit the Columbus OH location regularly. The food is awesome, by the way!

Aerogipsy,

This restaurant chain was totally off my radar.  Thanks!  Like your OH location, many of these eateries get high marks for food.  So much for the greasy spoon image.  It looks like the different Spaghetti Warehouse restaurants contain a wide variety of cars -- wouldn't it be nice if they were found locally?  Only one looked fabricated.

From an architecture/function/design standpoint, one has to ask:  what is this fascination with bringing the outdoors indoors?  It seems to go beyond simply providing a cheap "building" by repurposing a vehicle, although many of the earliest diners started out that way.

And why this obsession with saving so many trolleys at the expense of repurposing more rail cars?   Here's a possible theory:  during the depression many trolley and street railway lines failed therefore making cars available.  Even during a depression, the saying goes, people have to eat, so restaurants continued to be opened and these cars were available for affordable restaurants, houses, sheds, etc.  On the other hand, I would assume that the Class 1 railroads may have struggled but probably were in a better position to keep their rolling stock running. And they probably were motivated to keep the older units going to save money.  Other factors might be the cost to move and probably greater ease in reconfiguring a trolley as opposed to a rail car.  Surviving rail car restaurants seem to stay intact more as dining establishments -- perhaps because they actually were designed as restaurants.

Just some blathering on a fantastic-weather holiday.  Thanks all for making this an interesting (and colorful) thread.  Time to go outside!

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Did anyone forget the Clinton Station Diner in NJ? They used an old Blue Comet coach as their diner I think. I'm pretty sure this is Biela.

Aerogipsy posted:

"Spaghetti Warehouse is an Italian restaurant geared towards families with 13 locations in 6 U.S. states. Each restaurant has a trolley car in the dining room and patrons are able to sit in the car."  =snip=

Enough with the trolleys already!  I was just researching this spaghetti chain out of curiosity and instead stumbled on the Old Spaghetti Factory founded in 1969 in Portland, OR.  Each of their thirty restaurants is decorated with local items and features ... wait for it ... a trolley car that can be used as a dining room.  It's like McDonalds and Burger King -- if they each had a trolley car and served spaghetti that is ... At least the Little Rock Spaghetti Warehouse had a 1924 Pullman car from the Cotton Belt Railroad; but it closed.

And that Clinton Station Central New Jersey Blue Comet observation car is a great addition, gaining extra points for its coolness factor and tipping the scales nicely on the RR-side.

Tomlinson Run(ing Out of Index Cards) Railroad

I read the P-burgh Spaghetti Warehouse is closing, this month, I think. Was never there so can't comment on the decor.

jim pastorius posted:

I can still remember as a kid the first time I climbed on a new PCC car in Pittsburgh as a little kid. Before  that it was the old yellow ones. I was awestruck my the PCCs.   Pgh. had one of the largest fleets  but the only one around sits in the Heinz History Center.

    Only one around? Get the to the PA Trolley Museum out by The Meadows. 4004 is in the new shops. There are 3 Pittsburgh cars (1138,1467 & 1711), two SEPTA Red Arrow PCCs, and a Shaker Heights PCC trailer. 

Relevant to the original topic, there is also a car that once served as a diner, Pittsburgh, Harmony, Butler & New Castle 115, in the museum collection.

At one point in time, someone has parked a railroad car in Downtown, McKeesport, PA. It was best known as a travel agency, but I seem to recall it being a hot dog shop at one point. Can anyone confirm?

Close to my home, Harpers Ferry, WV, there have been a number of food establishments run out of an old baggage car. It is just past the passenger station.

     I can recall two faux caboose restraunt buildings on PA 51 south of Pittsburgh. One was at the old McDonalds, South of Century III Mall, and the other was a hot dog shop near Rostraver, PA

I have been to the trolley museum several times-expensive and a long trip but love the cars.  I have spent many hours riding the street cars. Rock you to sleep !!

Mickey's Diner is a classic diner in downtown Saint Paul, Minnesota , United States. It has been in continuous operation at the same location since 1939. Designed to resemble a railroad dinning car, the prefabricated building was constructed in 1937 by the Jerry O'Mahony Diner Company of Elisabeth, New Jersey, then shipped to Saint Paul by rail. Its unusual architecture made it a local landmark. It was nominated for being "a beloved, longstanding and unique social institution," an unaltered example of railroad car-style diners, and one of the few surviving examples of its type in the American Midwest.

50 feet (15 m) long and 10 feet (3.0 m) wide, Mickey's has distinctive red and yellow porcelain-enameled steel panels and Art-Deco-style lettering on the exterior. A row of 10 train-style windows graces the front. The interior features floor-mounted round stools along a well-worn counter.

Mickey Crimmons and Bert Mattson opened Mickey's Diner in 1939. Such diners had gained popularity early in the 20th century as inexpensive, often all-night, eateries. Mickey's Diner has been operating as a family-owned business since the year it opened.

Besides its architecture, Mickey's is known for its all-day (and all-night) breakfast menu.

Opening day...

1945...

"The Mighty Ducks"

"Jingle All The Way"

During WWII there was a purpose built diner in San Diego in the shape of a complete Santa Fe streamline train.  A classic Chief diesel, then what would be the body of the train, ending in observation car end.  It was located on the highway to Ocean Beach, La Jolla, etc.  I was 14 at the time and memories do fade...(I'm 84 now)...but as I remember it being a very well done representation.   I remember riding the bus to the beach...and trying to convince my parents we should stop there and eat....but never could convince them.  One of life's regrets.  Anyone else remember it??  Pictures, perhaps?  Sure would like to see if it looked as good as I remember it.

          Logan

Greg Nagy posted:

   ...

Relevant to the original topic, there is also a car that once served as a diner, Pittsburgh, Harmony, Butler & New Castle 115, in the museum collection.

...

Close to my home, Harpers Ferry, WV, there have been a number of food establishments run out of an old baggage car. It is just past the passenger station. 

...

Greg, great info!  Here's a link to the Trolley Museum's page describing the St. Louis Car Company interurban combine:

Former Diner Pittsburgh-harmony-butler-new-castle-railway 115

It's a very handsome car. And, here's a picture of the baggage car restaurant as in looked in 2012 according to Google maps:

Interurban, combines, and baggage cars are all great in my book.  Thanks for these terrific additions.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

There is a gentleman who lives in Beaver Co, Pa., Wayne Cole, who has written quite a few books about the many  small railroads that served the industries of western Pa. and some of Eastern Ohio. He has, also, written some books about the  street car lines and the interurbans in  western Pa.  I have both books that cover the two interurban lines that crossed through Butler Co. One is only about 3 miles away. I have explored what is left of the right-of-ways but a lot has disappeared. There is still an old brick power house outside of Renfrew that produced electricity for the one line. It was a mine-mouth plant-built right next to the coal mine which fueled their boilers. The building still stands, in nice shape, but is repurposed.  These helped spread electrification  to the people. A big weakness of the trolleys was the long walk or ride to the trolley line in all kinds of weather, day or night. When I was a kid during WW II we had over a half mile walk to the trolley line. One reason cars became popular but no one mentions that. You can Google "Cole Books" if you are interested in his work.

Logan Matthews posted:

During WWII there was a purpose built diner in San Diego in the shape of a complete Santa Fe streamline train.  A classic Chief diesel, then what would be the body of the train, ending in observation car end.  It was located on the highway to Ocean Beach, La Jolla, etc.  I was 14 at the time and memories do fade...(I'm 84 now)...but as I remember it being a very well done representation.   I remember riding the bus to the beach...and trying to convince my parents we should stop there and eat....but never could convince them.  One of life's regrets.  Anyone else remember it??  Pictures, perhaps?  Sure would like to see if it looked as good as I remember it.

          Logan

Boggs Brothers Diner and Cafe. What a wonderful childhood memory, Logan.  It would be neat if someone on the Forum actually got to eat there.  The postcard was found in this blog among the replies:

Roadside Eateries of the 1940s blog (scroll down for reply with this photo)

Tomlinson Run Railroad

From Richard Gutman's American Diner: Then and Now (1992), p. 142-3.  Herbert L. and Raymond E. Boggs' diner was near three aircraft plants [named] on Highway 101 across from Lindbergh Field. The 1935 Boggs Brothers Airway Diner was two RR cars end-to-end with a streamline nose. One car was set up as a coffee shop with counter and stools, the other with table and booth service.  They took over the diner in July 1942 and added a drive-in and modern "high-class" restaurant.  So the car sections of the diner were the real thing.

TRRR

P.S. -- Check out the "truck" placements in the picture :-).

Thanks TomlinsonRunRR.  I really enjoyed seeing that picture.  Brought back a lot of good memories.  Still wish I could have eaten there.

 San Diego was a great place to be a boy during the 1940's.  I went to Theodore Roosevelt Jr high school (grades 7-13).  It was in Balboa Park...adjacent to the Zoo, separated by a high cyclone fence.  The teachers said it was to protect the animals. 

   I rode the streetcars to school...the number 2 line (PCC), changing to the 7 or 11 (400 series cars) through the Park to the school.  Great way to start (and end) the day.

          Thanks, again.  Logan

The count for existing rail cars and trolleys turned into diners has reached a new high.  As of today, I have located roughly 57 converted rail cars and 23 converted trolleys for a total around 80!  This fact should afford lots of regional and wider-ranging road trip opportunities across the U.S.  Many restaurants are along side rail lines, too.  This figure does not include the Old Spaghetti Factory and Spaghetti Warehouse chains, restaurants with multiple cars, nor the many examples outside the U.S.

This revised number shows that the car-to-eatery phenomenon continues to the present day and wasn't limited to economic factors of the 20's, 30's, and 40's.

Tomlinson Run(ning Out of Time) Railroad

P.S. -- Please note that I am not normally a compulsive list-creator but I hope to finish this project by September 30 when I must resume writing my dissertation (i.e., "real" history :-).

Jim Pastorius wrote earlier about a railroad car restaurant in Erie, PA.  That would appear to be The Station Dinner Theater Restaurant with its 1922 Pullman car, founded in 1970.  I'm attaching two photos from their website and the link with interior shots and its history:

The Station Dinner Theater

Erie has at least two "real" diners (or, "dinors" as that region spells it), but photos were hard to come by.  Just south of Erie in Edinboro, PA is a 1913 North Western Railway Interurban Combine, that is part of the Crossroads Dinor.  It first became a restaurant in 1929.  What a beauty.  Attached is a 2007 photo from the informative Dinerhunter website:

Diner Hunter.com's article and photos of Crossroads Dinor, Edinboro, PA/

OGR forum member, C.M. McMahon, has done a superb job of scratch building the original that she shared in a post last year.  Most impressive!  Here's the link:

Kitbashed NWO Niles Combine

Tomlinson Run Railroad

The rail & trolley are "real" history but I really appreciate your work and sharing the info.  Do you include the "ship" that was on Rt.30 west of  Bedford, Pa. Not a  rail diner or trolley but built to loooklkie a ship. It burned many years ago. Very famous in the 30s.  In addition, in Bedford there is a building shaped like a big coffee pot that sold food.

Thanks, Jim. No, I'm not including any roadside art or similar attractions in my state-by-state list.  They are, of course, of general and visual interest and make for great photographic and layout subjects for those with the right skills.  And their images can certainly bring back great memories or evoke the wonder of times before ours -- a tremendous appeal.

The current weekend project is solely focused on cars that became food establishments and still exist today.  It's the intersection of decommissioned rail cars and the American architectural and culinary institution we call diners.  Railway history, good food, and functional but iconic architecture or design -- for me it's a winning combination. 

And, as alluded to previously, having been converted into a restaurant has saved some interesting specimens from destruction. Several trolley cars have been extracted from their buildings and restored to their former appearances; some cars remain in their hybridzed form, but have still found their way to railroad and other museums.

Bottom line: I like that these places still exist and that new places continue to be created today; and that we can visit them, sit inside and imagine or experience what used to be, and have a great meal. Hence, the list and to an extent, this post.

Thanks for sharing your Pittsburgh-area knowledge.

TRRR

9/24/2016 Update: Some corrections to text.

A Cowcatcher on a Diner?

We can imagine that railroad dining cars and diner architecture evolved somewhat similarly as products of the same design eras and the use of common manufacturing materials.

For example, originally, both had long wooden bodies set on wheels. Over time, the wooden bodies were replaced by steel bodies or siding in the case of diners.  (Only one entirely steel diner exists.) But, over time, rail cars remained on trucks while diners become increasingly land-bound.  OK, but who would have thought that some diners went so far as to include an architectural feature known as a "cowcatcher"? 

Post-war examples built by the Mountain View Diners Company (1938-1957) had a stainless steel corner that was called a 'cowcatcher'.  Curiously, it projected from the building's corners and not from the side, which would more closely mimic the front of a locomotive.  Following is the 1946 O'Rourke's Diner, Middletown, CT taken recently.  This diner is a short drive north from Essex, CT home of the Valley Railroad Company.  You can follow the excursion train's route and stops on the way to breakfast at the diner.  What could be finer? The diner is also just around the block from a Providence and Worcester wye and a great railroad swing bridge -- although who knows what will become of those now that the P&W is being sold?

1946 Mountain View. The cowcatcher is to the right of the brown trash barrel:

Here you can see how far the cowcatcher sticks out from the side of the diner:

Weird right?  Over time, the creative and aesthetic use of bent steel inside and outside diner architecture exceeded its use as siding on rail cars. That makes sense: rail car siding, while somewhat decorative, must stand up to the function of a rail car.  Additionally, the car's ends, where riders entered and exited or moved between cars, couldn't receive the creative siding treatment that the ends on a diner could, many of which had a center entrance and certainly weren't going to be traveling cross-country at high speeds!

Following are examples of diners that were built by Jerry O'Mahony Inc. (1913-1956) that show how corner steel detailing became more complicated over time.  More vertical rather than horizontal elements started appearing in diner buildings in both their siding and roofs -- emphasizing their more sedentary nature and moving a step away from the rail car look and eventually toward the classic '50s look -- much coveted by modelers.  Meanwhile, the Mountain View Company stopped using the cowcatcher but introduced their own "Streamliner" model.  The connection between rail car and diner apparently was a hard habit to break.

1948 Kelly's Diner horizontal corner detail, Somerville, MA in 2000. No cows will be caught here:

1952-3 Seaplane Diner corner detail -- complicated interleaving pattern, Providence, RI in 2000:

Notice, 'though how similar the siding is to a rail car and with a similar touch of color added.  Included in this post are full views of the buildings that show a continuing affinity with the (general) proportions of a rail car. 

A final note: If you head north on Rt. 154 to visit the cowcatcher, take a left onto Washington Street in Middletown for a quick side trip. First, you'll be rewarded with a view of a perfectly beautiful small railroad arch bridge -- it's just like my MTH model only 1:1!  Second, at 864 Washington Street, you'll find the Athenian Diner II, a more modern interpretation.  I ate there because O'Rourke's was closed.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Cow Catchers on Buildings Part 2

A web search a while back turned up only one other use of the railroad term "cow catcher" applied to architecture, and an iconic one at that: The Flatiron Building in New York City.  The information is conflicting but either the entire building was referred to as a "cow catcher" or just the front end or perhaps both.  Here are some fine historic pictures, complete with wonderful trolley cars. The first one is postmarked 1906 (both from my collection):

Summoning all of my modelling skills, I created my own scene of the "Flatiron Building with Trolley" here at the TR Railroad:

Enjoy!

Tomlinson Run Railroad

10/2/2016 Update:  I added another train example showing shared diner-trolley-railcar influences -- dining car china from the Rock Island's planned but never realized "Golden Rocket". The image tied into the circa-1947 line's streamliner makeover.

= = =

Another more obvious design element shared by rail and restaurant was the use of wings.  I suppose it could suggest forward movement or even a tie-in with modern airline travel. 

Diners built by the Fodero (nee National Dining Car) company had a famous stainless steel winged clock behind the counter.  The winged clock reminds me of the winged PCC streetcar headlights.  Some headlights used on the Pacific Electric streetcars had especially long wings (not shown).  The long wings remind me of the UP logo and, of course an airplane pilot's wings.  What do you think?  Have any trolley, rail, or diner clock pics to share?

1940 Fodero diner clock (detail)

PCC car detail

UP engine detail

1947 Central design element of china for the planned Golden Rocket (detail)

And what's old is new again, Mini Cooper logo:

Credits: Fodero diner interior (Scotty's, Pgh, PA) by Ron. https://www.flickr.com/photos/...nroadside/2640193778. Creative Commons. SF PCC by Geo Swan. https://creativecommons.org/li...es/by-sa/2.0/deed.en
https://commons.wikimedia.org/...iginal_cities_-a.jpg  Mini Cooper logo: http://www.car-brand-names.com/mini-logo/

Further reading:

Wikipedia.org Golden Rocket article

Nice blog post featuring the Marxville Diner with original box and full accessories, and lots of photos:

http://toyconnect.blogspot.com...771-diner-green.html

Very cool!!  I don't think I have ever seen one like that.  

"Challenger" engine, "Challenger" diner: Coincidence or connection?  You decide ...

The tight connection between streamliner/moderne train design and contemporary diner architecture is so obvious that it's undeniable.  But here's another one to ponder: From 1936 to 1944, ALCO built an articulated steam engine for the Union Pacific called the "Challenger".  Maybe you have a model of one?  Mid-way into production, in 1941, the New Jersey-based Kullman Dining Car [read: diner] Company introduced a new "Challenger" diner model that featured Streamline Art Deco styling. 

These diners had monitor roofs -- like a rail car, but without windows in them; and they had glass block entrances and corners, and blue enamel sides, among other things. The glass block building material obviously would not be suited for a rail car or trolley, and so it is a clear departure.  These buildings also appear wider than earlier diner buildings during a time when streamlined cars became narrower. But the monitor roof remained, even though it was no longer functional for light and ventilation. (Note, however, the side vents in the photos below -- probably better suited for a restaurant.)

So, the evidence of a deliberate connection between the two "Challenger" models is less compelling than it is for the more prolific uses of the names "Streamliner" and "Flyer" across trains and restaurants. But it is possible that a deliberate connection was intended. According to the Wikipedia article on Kullman, in 2000, the company introduced a "Blue Comet" model, referring of course to the Central of New Jersey train.  (See the previous reply about the Blue Comet rail car that is now part of a restaurant.)

Following are two examples of the Challenger model, both from Providence, RI that I photographed in 2000.  Unfortunately, the glass block entrances are not visible. At one time both were endangered; now only one is:

1946 Silver Top (rotting away in Pawtucket since 2002 and up for auction on 5 Oct. -- three days away!)

1948 El Faro (now the West Side Diner and at a new location in Providence)

Wikipedia.org Union_Pacific_Challenger article

Wikipedia.org Kullman_Building_Corporation article

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Here's another one of El Faro that seemed to exceed the character length in the prior post ... 

TRR (Too pretty not to post)

Neither fish nor fowl

Neither a trolley nor railcar turned stationary diner, I stumbled upon something entirely different this AM while searching for prototypes of a model passenger car I'm considering adding to my roster.

According to their website, this year, the Newport & Narragansett (RI) Bay Railroad Company "extensively remodeled" their RDC 3 Buddliner #30 into a 1950's style diner (or soda fountain/ice cream shop depending on which web page you read).  In addition to tables and chairs, this rolling "diner" has its own Wurlitzer jukebox.

A pre-renovation post on photo.nerail.org says that the 1950's car started as British Columbia Rail's BC-30. It was then sold to the Wilton (NH) Scenic, and then the Newport Dinner Train Islander.  It is now "serving" as Conductor Kalbfus and the Ice Cream Train.  Quite the mouthful. That's the scoop anyway (=supply groan here=).

photos.nerail.org Photo with history

1950's-style diner renovation (menu; see home page for photo of interior)

This Southern New England excursion company has a variety of nice looking offerings:

Newport & Narrgansett Railroad Website

Tomlinson Run Railroad

And let's not forget "The Blob".  

Dan Padova posted:

And let's not forget "The Blob".  

LOL!  Admit it, how may of you modelers out there have had this kind of fun with your diner or other layout buildings?  

There is a Brill subway car turned pizza shop in Wallingford, Connecticut where a mediocre horror film was shot -- most of it inside the car/diner. (Checkout Trackside Pizzeria.) But nothing can touch The Blob!

TRRR

TomlinsonRunRR posted:

"Challenger" engine, "Challenger" diner: Coincidence or connection?  You decide ...

The tight connection between streamliner/moderne train design and contemporary diner architecture is so obvious that it's undeniable.  But here's another one to ponder: From 1936 to 1944, ALCO built an articulated steam engine for the Union Pacific called the "Challenger".  Maybe you have a model of one?  Mid-way into production, in 1941, the New Jersey-based Kullman Dining Car [read: diner] Company introduced a new "Challenger" diner model that featured Streamline Art Deco styling. 

These diners had monitor roofs -- like a rail car, but without windows in them; and they had glass block entrances and corners, and blue enamel sides, among other things. The glass block building material obviously would not be suited for a rail car or trolley, and so it is a clear departure.  These buildings also appear wider than earlier diner buildings during a time when streamlined cars became narrower. But the monitor roof remained, even though it was no longer functional for light and ventilation. (Note, however, the side vents in the photos below -- probably better suited for a restaurant.)

So, the evidence of a deliberate connection between the two "Challenger" models is less compelling than it is for the more prolific uses of the names "Streamliner" and "Flyer" across trains and restaurants. But it is possible that a deliberate connection was intended. According to the Wikipedia article on Kullman, in 2000, the company introduced a "Blue Comet" model, referring of course to the Central of New Jersey train.  (See the previous reply about the Blue Comet rail car that is now part of a restaurant.)

Following are two examples of the Challenger model, both from Providence, RI that I photographed in 2000.  Unfortunately, the glass block entrances are not visible. At one time both were endangered; now only one is:

1946 Silver Top (rotting away in Pawtucket since 2002 and up for auction on 5 Oct. -- three days away!)

1948 El Faro (now the West Side Diner and at a new location in Providence)

 

Wikipedia.org Union_Pacific_Challenger article

Wikipedia.org Kullman_Building_Corporation article

Tomlinson Run Railroad

In 2000 I was a punk rock art school kid living in the brick mill building in the background of your pics of the Faro. That mill was on the Woonsquatuket River and was The pre Civil War Fruit of the Loom mill. It was torn down in 2001 for a now failed shopping mall. I had many roommates and we lived over that fleamarket.

I knew the then owner of the Faro and went in sometimes especially in the winter for some warmth and fries or soup. They kept such odd and sporadic hours I'm surprised they were able to make a profit. 

Since I was in college still I walked or biked down Harris Ave past the capital to get to East side and my studio. So I was passing both of these diners all of the time. I would avoid the Silvertop at night because the late night clients enjoyed giving art kids a hard time. 

The pic of the Silvertop was taken in the short time after they tore down the Providence Cold Storage Building. I will always think of that huge red brick hulk behind the diner.

Across Harris from the Silvertop was the food market building  fronting the old New Haven main and there was a switch tower a bit further west on Harris.

I have somewhere an S Scale resin model of the Silvertop and the very rightly famous for both style and food Modern Diner in Pawtucket. 

As far as converted train cars used as diners. Around the same time as these pictures (2000) there was a McDonalds in Fall River Mass that had two stainless streamlined railroad cars as dining areas for the restaurant. 

Thanks for posting the pics. Good memories for me. 

Silver Lake,

Thanks for sharing your stories of the area from your art school days.  It really brought the Providence area to life for me.  And thanks for tying in the New Haven line and switch tower.  It's often interesting to see the intersections of where the diners are located and where the rail lines are.  Google is a great tool for that.

It's too bad the Civil War era mill was torn down. And the fact that there was once a large building behind the Silvertop makes sense.  It was sort of sitting all by itself when I was there, which seemed odd.

Like you, I have an S scale diner model but of the Tip Top.  It's part of the Lefton's Great American Diners Series from the Roadside USA Collection.  Someday maybe I'll succeed in getting an in-focus photo of it to post.  The back's unfinished, so it would look best against the wall of a taller building on a layout. 

I hadn't heard about the McDonald's with the RR cars dining area until your post, but then I stumbled on a reference and photo two days ago.  According to a railroad.net post, in 2006, the McDonald's remodeled and either donated or sold the car (they only mentioned one) to the Old Colony & Fall River Railroad Museum.  The museum just closed September 4 of this year.  Apparently a McD's play ground was in the streamlined car at one point.  Posters theorized it was originally a New York Central or New Haven car. McD's, like Denny's, went through a "diner phase" when they made various cosmetic changes to try and cash in on the popularity of diners.  I don't think it was that successful.  Maybe the Fall River railcar(s) sticking out of the side of the building dates from those days?  What an odd juxtaposition of styles -- the Golden Arches meet the Silver Sides! :-).

 Mickey D's meets New Haven. (I'll try and post the shareable photo tomorrow. It's stuck on my iPad. In the meantime, here's the link.)

Thanks for sharing.

 Tomlinson Run Railroad 

While searching for a good picture of the Fall River, MA McDonald’s Restaurant with the streamliner coach that Silver Lake mentioned, I was surprised to find three more examples of a rail car or interurban car with Golden Arches. Only one remains today.  Modeling inspiration anyone?

Bartow Station, Barstow, CA

Opening in the summer of 1975 on Route 66, this McDonald’s has always rail cars attached to it. It was originally built with “the best dining cars from across the country” – according to their website. Google maps reveals 6 cars at present. (There’s even a Subway Restaurant but no cars :-). Photos by SpecialK: http://www.pentaxforums.com/fo...arstow-remnants.html

Crystal Lake, IL

The Crystal Lake McD’s was built in 1959 as a take-out only restaurant. In 1984, a retired Chicago Transit Authority (St. Louis?) was attached to provide seating. This side-ways arrangement had much better fung shui than the Fall River car, which stuck out of the side of the restaurant at 90-degrees!  In 2006, this building was demolished and parts of the car went to the Illinois Railway Museum. Some better close-ups of this handsome Lake Street “L” car can be found on the web. Here are some history links (hopetunnel.org photo):

http://chicagoist.com/2006/12/..._closing_forever.php

http://www.hopetunnel.org/subw.../051120/mc4000_1.jpg

Boulder, CO

Once located at 29^th Street, it looks like the caboose in the following link is gone. Waymarking.com is a good source for photos of railcars-turned-diners/dining rooms, along with GPS data:

http://www.waymarking.com/waym...Boulder_Colorado_USA

Tomlinson Run Railroad, Somewhere in the USA

This previously unknown McDonald’s was created from a PRR coach, appropriately named the Henry J. Heinz. In its heyday, this car was called the “King of the Condiments”.  In this 1977 view, Tina is leaving with a bag of breakfast pancakes while Joe is checking his watch to confirm that he has enough time for some Newman’s Own before heading off to work. The next two photos suggest why so few of these McDonald’s + rail cars remain in the U.S. 

Dinosaur view -- looks like a tasty hotdog from up here:

“Hold the pickles! Hold the lettuce, some thing tall’s gonna get us!”  Humm, maybe Dan P. was on to something?

Tomlinson Run (for the hills) Railroad

The Fort Smith (AR) Trolley Museum's Birney streetcar was part of a diner before its restoration and return to the rails...

Also in Fort Smith, the Westend Diner is located in a former dining car:

https://www.zomato.com/photos/...597-u_zNzYxOTEyNjQzN

In Fort Washington, PA, the Subway is located in a pair of cut-down Baltimore and Ohio passenger cars:

https://www.google.com/maps/uv...t%2Bwashington%2BPA/@40.1358043,-75.1989835,3a,75y,215.37h,90t/data%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211sEtvrEccUQ1Rzo9sngv6QUg*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x0:0xd9d7966064670810!5ssubway+restaurant+fort+washington+PA+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2sEtvrEccUQ1Rzo9sngv6QUg&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdovHKxYPQAhWoj1QKHY8TC3wQpx8IdjAK

Last time I visited, the bathroom still had etched glass windows from the B&O...

Mitch

Mitch,

What a great and informative post, and thanks especially for your photo of number 224.  Great colors and angle!  It wasn't on my radar. Unfortunately, I haven't located a photo of its diner days, but maybe the National Register research documentation has one? 

The West End Diner's car has had me puzzled because sources say that it is a Pullman, but it has a PTCX reporting mark that I could never ID.  Was it Poultry Transit Co?  Texas Petrochemicals Corp? PTC Alliance?  All of these showed up in web searches. Then I found this link that says it's an ex-NY Transit Authority car:

West End/Boom-a-rang/Nickel&Diner at rrpictures.net

That sort of makes more sense to me based on the car's shape but the reporting mark remains a mystery.

That Subway Restaurant with the B&O cars was also unknown to me.  These repurposed cars seem to turn up in the oddest places and circumstances. That would be neat if the old etched glass is still there.

I believe Washington, PA is home to the PA Trolley Museum.  Apparently, there's a 1909 St. Louis car that was an all-wood and very ornate interurban electric. It was a diner for 55 years before being removed from the larger restaurant it had become and brought to the museum. It was #115 Pittsburgh, Harmony, Butler, and New Castle and the only surviving example.

It's great that a car like the Fort Smith one is running again. Kudos to the folks who made that happen. Thanks again.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Hey Bobby Ogage, excellent pix!  You got it!  What a variety of styles and eras.

For the curious, photos 1 and 3 are Sisson's Diner, 1926, Wasson Manufacturing, Springfield (MA) car #229. It is located in Middleboro, MA.  A visit to this trolley-diner was on my summer to-do list, but it never happened.  Also in Middleboro is a 1997 real (as in building) diner, Dave's Diner, built by the Starlite Diner Co. of Florida.

Photo 3 is the Ice Cream Shoppe, also paired with a real diner called The Trolley Car Diner, in Philadelphia, PA.  A 1948 St. Louis Car Co., PCC, former Philadelphia Transit Authority car #2134. It was restored and serving food only since 2003, so it's a relative young 'un.

Photo 4 is the Route 66 Diner, Gardner, IL.  This early style single truck American Car saw various non-tansportation uses since its retirement in 1932 -- some food related, some not. It's now in a small park.  It first ran in Albany, GA then was sold to Kankakee, IL for use as a trolley.

How about you West Coast folks (CA, WA)?  There are lots of rail car and trolley conversions out your way.  Maybe because the diner builders are mostly in the east and you have so much stock to work with?  Several conversions are in IL as well -- such a great place for preservation.

Thanks for the great photos.  Keep 'em coming, even if only vaguely diner/trolley/train-related.  How about some more train station restaurants? 

Tomlinson Run Railroad 

Diner architecture may have originated in the U.S., but railcars and trolleys turned into diners/cafes isn't unique to the U.S.  The web is full of pictures of them from all over the world.  (And, yes, some are McDonald's, too. :-)

Here's a link to an October Lionel Tracks post showing some very (and I mean very) creative conversions found in South Korea. There's also a video of some rail bikes that look a lot like peddle-driven speeders that connect the two converted cafes along side the tracks.

Repurposed rail car cafes (grasshoppers and fish) in South Korea

Enjoy!

Tomlinson Run Railroad

More on the bike route (former coal line)

Late in the evening , after bear "hunting" in Cases Cove in the Smokies, l drove past a brightly lit chrome diner that looked like one of those purpose built ones.  I think it was in Pigeon Forge.  I forgot to go back and photograph it in the daylight, but thought of this posting when l saw it. That is a very heavily visited area, so it may already be posted on here.

Cades Cove...idiot spell checker on here often changes unfamiliar words

That diner in Pigeon Forge in the Smokies is Mel's Diner, and it is back behind the Denny's on the main drag, south side, through PF , l have been told. The Smokies are the most visited national park, so many are familiar with this area.

Hi Colorado Hirailer,

Hope you enjoyed your time in the Smokies -- such a beautiful part of America.  Some late night googling confirmed your post today that it's Mel's Classic Diner at 119 Wears Valley Road, Pigeon Forge, TN.

To me it looks like it may have been built onsite and would be easy to model, except for the neon :-).  The website says that it was built in 1993, which would explain why the classic book "American Diners: Then and Now" makes no mention of it nor any TN diners.  (It was published in the same year.)

If you were heading due north, Sevierville looks like the next town over, and it is home to Mells (different spelling) Diner, now known as The Diner.  This one looks like it was built by one of the newer diner building manufacturers.  With the big boxy look, stainless steel X shapes, they've gotten completely away from the rail dining car proportions, not to mention the 50's automobile-friendly diners they seek to evoke.  The Diner, Sevierville, TN  Notice the heavier use of glass blocks seen in the cowcatcher and challenger posts.  It's been taken to new extreames in the newer buildings.

It cracks me up when somebody with a video camera posting on You Tube goes on and on about the old "railroad car" that they're filming. Not! 

Great trolley find:

In tracking down these two restaurants, I stumbled on Brown's Diner in Hillsboro Village, Nashville, TN.  In 1929, Charlie Brown [yup] set up a mule-drawn trolley as a bar and restaurant at this location.  He built a foundation around the wheels to avoid taxes, a common occurence in those days.  So, the trolley wheels are still there.  You can see the curved interior roof in one black and white shot on their website. And there are several exterior photos on the web.  A news post about a prior fire says there are two cars but it's impossible to tell from photos/aerial views.  John Bader, the painter mentioned in an earlier post about the Trolley Stop in Lowell, also painted this real trolley-turned-diner.

Tennessee Diner in a Mule-Drawn Nashville Trolley

Thanks for sharing.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

P.S. - Forumites, do you have a Mel's Diner or Drive-in on your layout? Show us your pics.  One food reviewer thought the popularity of the name was due to the TV show "Alice" set in Mel's Diner. 

Original American diner buildings have been shipped to Canada, Britain, and parts of Europe where restauranteurs have tried to cash in on their appeal and unique-American association.   By comparison, it turns out that converting retired trolley and rail cars into diner-like restaurants isn't unique to the United States.  Here are a few samples -- in this case, featuring another American dining experience.  Yes, it's another photo-laden post about the ever ubiqitous McDonald's!  In how many languages can you say "Do you want fries with that?" while standing inside a former rail/trolley car? 

There could be more. I just happened to stumble upon these while doing my U.S. research.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Australia

Trams inside restaurant (gone)

Germany
German example (look for English link that says it goes to the page you are looking for)

Or try this link (note pantograph still attached):

http://www.drehscheibe-online..../read.php?17,5562609   Scroll down a short way to McDrive and the German trolley photo.

Rumania (note pantograph)

https://www.google.com/imgres?...mp;iact=c&ictx=1
http://iasifun.ziaruldeiasi.ro...-pentru-copii/22239/  (scroll down a little past halfway)

New Zealand

Not a train but entertaining none-the-less

P.S. -- All of a sudden I feel hungry.

While I was pondering  the differences and similarities between diner architecture and railroad design, it occurred to me that one area of difference is found in the locations of the kitchens. 

First the similarities: In both diner buildings and kitchen rail cars, the kitchen equipment was in a tightly enclosed space that was designed for economy.   Both dealt with early and evolving forms of heating the cooking surface (trains: wood, coal; diners: coal? gas), and both kitchens used ice-filled refrigerators to keep the provisions cold.  It was obviously important to separate the hot from the cold sections in such small kitchens; you can see how this was attempted via floor plans.  The resulting space was so tight that both diner cooks and dining car chefs and their waitstaff developed a special type of shuffle for getting around the tight spaces.  Popular legend says that fellow works can identify one another on the street by their distinctive walk.

That said, one big difference was that the train kitchen was a separate car, or it was built at one end of the car, separated from the dining section.  Railroads were trying to create the experience of a hotel on wheels for their patrons.  When you read ad copy for modern dinner trains, they continue to stress the importance of enjoying the ever-changing view while you dine on fine food.

In diner buildings, the kitchen was traditionally located along a back bar, parallel to the counter and booths (although many later added a real kitchen at the rear or in a basement to provide greater working space).  Part of the fun of eating in a diner is watching the cook prepare the food.

And in both settings it can be a treat sitting with people who you don't know and making them your new best friends for a few moments over food.  Both dining cars and diners have similar, large windows -- something that the contemporary diner buildings have held on to while they've moved further away from the railcar/moderne engine look.

Summation: On a rail car, patrons were entertained as they watched the changing scenery out the window while eating world class food.  In a diner, patrons ate comfort food and were entertained as they watched the chef and waitstaff work, or the foot traffic outside the window.  Both models work for me!  Here is a cartoon (also posted elsewhere today) that makes it clear how important a window with a rolling view was. So much better than those ubiquitous individual drop-down movie screens on buses and airplanes now-a-days:

And now for some actual photos ... Speaking of comfort food, I don't have any converted rail or trolley car photos to share as I am back to school and so no road trips, but I do have these two.  I've written about how the recent surge in food trucks put more converted "bus trolley" restaurants on the road.  These two are smaller stationary versions that are towed behind a vehicle and then left on site --  just like the original diners.  The first photo was taken in New Hampshire for me by a friend many years ago. This "trolley" sold Italian comfort food:

This next "trolley" is Ed's Weenies located at a farm stand in "metro-west" Massachusetts.  Ed's recently won the number three slot in the Boston Globe's Cheap Eats contest.  The proud kitchen helper noted that it was great but odd because the hot dog vendor is no where near Boston.  The owner's a stellar neighbor who always gives back to the town, so I'm not surprised. 

Apparently, when Ed had his kitchen custom built he specifically had it designed to look like a trolley.  He's not been around to ask why he wanted this look, but his helper pointed out the popular red and yellow colors -- or, as she said: "Catsup and mustard! " Doh!  It never occurred to me. Check out the earlier photos/links I posted on the many McD's conversions and my photos of the latest incarnation of the Trolley Stop in Lowell, MA ... Yup, you guessed it, they're catsup and mustard:

Tomlinson Run Railroad

TRRR- Love your posts on the trolleys, diners, etc. I have always been fascinated by dining cars and the military dining cars they built during WW II.  I got a good look at one, I think it was at Spencer, NC. Worked for awhile in my frat kitchen and  there was a diner in "downtown" State College, Pa. where we would and sit and watch the cook behind the counter.  I wonder if they teach that at culinary school  ??

Hey Jim!

Thanks!  Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself or boring you guys to tears :-).  And I wish I had more photos.

You know, it's an interesting thing about those military kitchen cars.  How neat you got to see one up close.  Just poking around following my general interests per this post has turned up what seems to be several ex-military kitchens that have survived.  The 1950 "Colonial Hearth" at Connecticut's Valley RR is one that comes immediately to mind, but there have been others.  Perhaps their practical application as a kitchen car meant that some lasted longer than other types of rail cars?  

James Porterfield's excellent book _Dining by Rail_ devotes considerable text to the increased demand on the kitchen crew and no doubt provisions stocking efforts during the WWII years when service personnel had to be transported AND fed by the nations and services' railroads.

What didn't seem to happen (as far as I can tell) is that wanna be restaurant owners were NOT buying old kitchen cars -- military or otherwise -- as a way to get a ready made kitchen for a diner or restaurant.  Diner buildings on the other hand, came well equiped with both the kitchen and dining area.  If you bought a retired trolley or rail car, you were free to mimic a diner's interior visible kitchen, build your kitchen out from the side of the car, or design whatever you wanted.  I'd guess those rail car kitchens would be pretty beat or out-dated.  

There's an example of a converted trolley in Shafter, California whose owner mimicked a diner building by taking up space with the kitchen bar inside the trolley car body. It was a 1910s? Pacific Electric #466, formerly a Fresno Traction Car and Peninsula RR (?). It became a diner in 1943 and the Red Wagon Cafe is still going strong. I'll add a link to pictures when I have time later. 

I dunno about teaching budding chefs "performance" art like how to entertain patrons while cooking (=grin=) but the ability to work under pressure AND be observed certainly sets the diner cook apart from the dining car chef.  It's a great idea. 

Johnson and Wales Culinary School has a culinary arts museum and they have sponsored diner events and at least one exhibit in the past.  Diner fans are a lot like railfans!  The school takes pride in Providence, Rhode Island's history as the birthplace of the first horse drawn diner.  I wonder whether they have any railroad cookbooks, dining car artifacts, and the like in their collection?

The closest I came to your frat experience was during my first year of college. I got a summer job as a short order cook (no height jokes, please) at the Officer's PX Snack Bar at Fort Devens, MA.  It was set up very much like a diner range out in the open for cooking burgers, chicken, fries, onion rings, pizza, and etc. But I think the long bar area parallel to the grill was only for the servicemen to order and then line up to pay at the cash register; there was a separate area for table seating.  Fort Devens was decomissioned years ago and the PX and snack bar long gone, but the large train yard on the base is now a busy Norfolk Southern intermodal yard with connections to Pan AM and commuter train tracks.

Thanks for your encouragement and stories.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Please don't stop !!  Not boring. I wish I had saved all your posts and photos, it would make a great book. I imagine the RR cooks were like the diner short order cooks-poetry in motion. The crack the eggs and have them on the grill, toast in toaster, bacon frying,  smear butter on without missing a beat.  State College  had a diner where we went that was famous for their buttered fried sticky buns.  We would sit there and watch the cook( a collegiate wrestler) at work. He was the bouncer too. Some wise guy kept touching the waitress where he shouldn't have, he was politely asked to stop but didn't so he was hauled outside and body slammed.  That ended that and the cook went back to the grill. I don't think the dining car kitchens fit a commercial  need too well.

I'll bet Jim's PA college diner was the late-1950s Silk City-built "Baby's (eat and get out) Diner". Right?  Diner website  At Baby's it's all about the red and white colors (and apparently sticky buns).  Here's a Google Image search for more pictures: Lots of photos ...  

Recently in this post we've investigated mustard and catsup colors on converted cars and food trailers, but the 50's red and white look is popular, too.  As described in the 20 October 2016 post, the Newport & Narragansett Bay RR created a 50s-style diner inside of a rail car.  For your viewing pleasure, here are some more examples of rail car/trolley "diners" -- also featuring the classic red and white Coca Cola look.  Most embedded photos are from places like Yelp followed by pointers to more official sources and copyrighted photos.

The Diner Car, Doolittle's Restaurant, DuBois, PA

Not far from State College, PA is a converted 1944 PRR Pullman car "diner". This local attraction also has a gorgeous 1913 Milwaukee Road parlor car-turned dining room:

Now, if I were an art historian, I might call this a "transitional" piece because, while the seats, tables, and walls are in 50's red and white, and the floor is a typical checkerboard, it is a catsup red and yellow mustard checkerboard.  Clearly, the designers took some stylistic license.  Here are more links.  The railroad station is new but was built from B&O plans:

DuBois Area Historical Society Article (nice)

TV News Video and Story and the Official Website

Rock and Roll Diner, Oceana, CA

This "diner" was created from two streamlined passenger cars placed end-to-end. One is smooth-sided, the other is a fluted Budd observation car.  Wow-Za!

 Lots of photos (Google image search) , Official website, and Short video of the exterior.

Angels' Diner, Palatka, FL

Back on the east coast is a steel-sided rail car of some type (?). Can anyone hazard a guess? The restaurant dates from 1932.  The interior design isn't too heavy on the 50s-look but the plates do sport black and white checkerboards:

Angel's doesn't seem to have a website but they are on Angel's Diner FB Page and some More photos.  To be continued ...

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Here are two more examples of a trolley and rail car turned into diners that feature red and white/50s design. I didn't see any "safe" pix to snag, so sadly you'll have to click for the visuals.

Dudie's Diner, Tupelo, MS

This diner was built from a 1923 St. Louis lightweight car that saw service as Memphis Street Railway #630.  Depending on the source, it was converted to a restaurant in 1945 or 47; and is the focal point for a hamburger festival at the museum where it now resides:

Dudie's Diner earlier more prototypical look,  Blog pix, Google image hits (lots of pix), and the Oren Dunn City of Tupelo Museum website (caution: this link wasn't up before).

50s Train Diner, Murdo, South Dakota

Self-consciously called the "50s Train Diner" and sometimes the "Sante Fe Train Diner", this attraction in 1880 Town, SD is built around a 1950s Sante Fe train that ran between Chicago and California.  It was moved to this site in 1982.  The fifties memorabilia and red and white Coca-Cola sign leave little to the imagination regarding where the design inspiration came from.  The website says the restrooms are in the Milwaukee station next door:

Nice pix and Coca-Cola sign and Official 1880 Town website

Valentine Diners, Kansas

In addition to the association with Coca-Cola and checkered picnic table cloths, the red and white color motif was found inside real manufactured diner buildings like Baby's Diner in State College, PA that kicked off this post.  Who knows which came first?  In the 1940s, one actual diner manufacturer created small restaurant buildings whose exteriors were painted in bright red and white.  Valentine Diners competed with big diner manufacturers like Worcester in MA and Silk City in NJ.  In their spiffy paint, these buildings bucked the east coast tradition -- Valentine Diners was based in Kansas and many of their buildings were found in the west and mid-west.  These are really awesome buildings and would look great on a layout.  They, however, look like buildings not rail cars or moderne engines. Google Image search (lots of pix)

This post desperately needs some photos, so here they are.  Following is a tip from TRRR on converting your layout space into a 50s diner, complete with repurposed rail car:

Next is a fun cookbook that includes recipes and CDs to play while you cook or dine.  In spite of its name, it is not related to the California streamliner diner in the previous post.  It does however, showcase the black and white checkerboard shown on dinner plates and train sides in the prior post:

And lastly, in keeping with the season (seasonings?), here is Donder's Diner featured in who-knows-what-scale:

Speaking of red and white, Santa used to sit on the left-most stool but he fell behind the counter, and being ... er ... somewhat corpulent got wedged back there.  He does, however, send his warmest "Ho, ho, ho" and hopes to free himself in time for the Big Day of train riding with Donder and friends:

Tomlinson Run Railroad (on vacation!)

OK TR RR, my diner in State College is now the "Ye Olde College Diner".  The other is newer.  In my day, if you had $5 you had a real date- movie in town and a stop at another diner on the walk back to the  frat. We would get cheeseburgers and a milk shake. Big times. Very few had cars-we walked  Ch.13 WQED in Pgh. made a show on diners, Pa. diners, I think. I will pick one up if I can find it. Eat N Park, a western Pa, restaurant chain tried a retro diner on Rt.30 near Jeanette, Pa. but it bombed.  Just curious, TR RR, is your handle related in any way to a stream in beautiful  West(By-Gawd) Virginia  ??

Ah, I conflated the two State College, PA diners.  So forget the red and white ... From web photos, your diner has superb brown and tan tile work flooring and an Art Deco exterior. Clearly, it is earlier than Baby's and to my eye much more attractive.  Very nice and great memories!

Eat N Park sounds familiar; I'll have to investigate my sources.

Yes, "Tomlinson Run" is a play on words partially based on the WVA park and my name.  I've never been there; sadly they don't have a railroad, but happily I do :-).

Tomlinson Run Railroad

There was a diner in downtown Aberdeen, MD that I'm not sure was a RR car, but it looked like one. The pace was a 50s-60s time capsule, and I loved eating there when I was still stationed at the Proving Ground.

There was a neat restaurant at Vancouver, WA just inside the insanely-busy wye where the old SP&S met the old NP. They had several RR passenger cars and a hack connected to the building. Sadly, it was out of business the first time I ever saw the place and the cars were scrapped a couple of years later. The hack, I heard, got saved by someone. The other cars are on the other side and the tracks are to the right. It would have been an amazing place to eat and watch trains but I heard it was pricey and the food wasn't very good.

My all-time favorite, though, would have to be another long-closed-before-I-got-there one, the Tweetsie Diner in Newland, NC. Sadly, this burned to the ground in a fire a few years after this photo was taken with my in it, I think circa 1982:

Sadly, this was former ET&WNC coach 23, the last surviving coach from the old Tweetsie...

TR RR- there are RR tracks south of the park in Weirton. Get your crew to run a branch north along the Ohio River plus the NS is across the Ohio River. Artistic license.   Eat N Park started in the South Hills area of Pgh and we would go to the first one where the waitresses brought your tray of food to the car. Can't be more retro than that.  they have expanded but not sure if they have gone out of state. They are home of the "Smiley"  cookie. Also, at first, they featured the  "Big Boy' hamburger but that was copyrighted and eventually they dropped that name but not the sandwich. Still a great place to eat.

p51 posted:

There was a diner in downtown Aberdeen, MD that I'm not sure was a RR car, but it looked like one. The pace was a 50s-60s time capsule, and I loved eating there when I was still stationed at the Proving Ground.

>> p51/Lee,

>> Thanks for your excellent post and sharing your photos.  This is great.  The New Ideal Diner was an actual diner building with a train-car feel built in 1952 by the Jerry O'Mahoney Co. of NJ.  Looks like it is gone but here are some interesting links: 

>>  http://retroroadmap.com/spot/t...md-you-are-my-ideal/

>> http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne...-20140831-story.html

>> http://msa.maryland.gov/megafi...df/msa_se5_15169.pdf

There was a neat restaurant at Vancouver, WA just inside the insanely-busy wye where the old SP&S met the old NP.

=snip=

>> You may be in luck here.  Washington state has a high number of railcars used as restaurants.  I'll see what I have and post more later.  Nice picture, by the way.

My all-time favorite, though, would have to be another long-closed-before-I-got-there one, the Tweetsie Diner in Newland, NC.

>> Gosh, I can see why it would be your all-time favorite.  This RR was new to me.  I'm a fan of narrow gauge and can't imagine how a narrow gauge car was converted to a restaurant.  But if the original diners were horse-drawn wagons, clearly it's possible.

>> What a great photo of you and a fantastic car-turned- building.  The unusual clapboard treatment reminds me of some of the "updating/modernizing" that gets done to authentic diner buildings.  There's one that is so bad, that it has an award for bad taste named after it.  I'll scan and post a pix of the Lou-Roc shortly.

>> For those like me who are curious to learn more, here are links to the current Tweetsie Railroad, including a nice interactive history timeline: 

>> https://tweetsie.com/explore-t...vent-charter-granted

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweetsie_Railroad

>> Thanks again for your contribution, Lee.

See my inline comments in p51's note above, prefaced with >>.  (On my iPad and in a rush.)

TRRR

jim pastorius posted:

TR RR- there are RR tracks south of the park in Weirton. Get your crew to run a branch north along the Ohio River plus the NS is across the Ohio River. Artistic license. 

Eat N Park started in the South Hills area of Pgh

=snip=

Also, at first, they featured the  "Big Boy' hamburger but that was copyrighted and eventually they dropped that name but not the sandwich. Still a great place to eat.

Ha!  I'd have to enlarge my living room for that branch. The TRRR is in Massachusetts -- inspite of the investment in PRR rolling stock.

My memories of road trips centered around holiday drives from Pittsburgh to visit relatives in Harrisburg.  (As a kid, my lucky mother used to do the same trip by train, courtesy of my grandfather's job at the PRR.)  I loved it when we stopped at a Big Boy Restaurant.  Big Boy hamburgers remain my favorite.  They tasted great and the "Big Boy" character was so iconic.  These days, when I want to eat something I probably shouldn't, I have to make do with a Big Mac.  Too far to drive for the real thing.

TRRR

No ! No!  You create a holding company like W&P with a common paint scheme but not connected. You never heard of the Tweetsie ??  A great RR.

jim pastorius posted:

No ! No!  You create a holding company like W&P with a common paint scheme but not connected. You never heard of the Tweetsie ??  A great RR.

Needless to say, I'm flabbergasted that someone hasn't heard of the East Tennessee & Western North Carolina RR, which the 'flatland tourists' called 'the Tweetsie' by the late 30s (though it was never a popular name among the locals).

That said, I have to face facts that when it comes to narrow gauge lines, it's "all Colorado/New Mexico, all the time" for most train fans. There were some amazing narrow gauge lines all over the country but many just think of the old D&RGW/D&S/RGS lines and nothing else... The ET&WNC had a line through the Doe River Gorge outside of Hampton, TN that rivaled anything the Rio Grande ever had. Thankfully, rails were re-laid in the early 60s as part of an ill-fated tourist operation that is now owned by a Christian camp that has maintained the line and allowed train buffs to come check it out.

Aerogipsy posted:

The very first one was in Portland, Oregon but sadly it was moved a few years back. They have a very impressive location down by the river there, but sort of out of the way. There are newer ones in the region, but they all have a newly-build trolley-looking structure in the middle. Only the Tacoma one (which moved a few blocks, last year) has an original trolley still inside it.

The Seattle one (the red brick building in the below photo) is in the process of closing right now, which is really sad as it was right next to the BNSF/NP/Amtrak main line:

Though it's one of her favorite restaurants, my wife never liked eating in the trolley in the Tacoma location, as it rocked on its suspension and trucks back then. When it was moved, it was apparently given a far more sturdy position in it's new location.

Fog City Diner in San Francisco is an upscale diner built to look like an old dinning car. Great place. Don

p51,

Don't get too upset that I haven't heard of the Tweetsie; I'm fairly new to the hobby (1:1 and O); and let's just say that I don't get out much and leave it at that :-).  The Doe River Gorge link that you posted looks like a beautiful mountain route for sure -- and I see your point about the western narrow gauge routes being more familiar to most. 

When it comes to east coast narrow gauge, I'm closer to and therefore somewhat familiar with lines in Maine. They seem to be having quite the renaissance at the present.  There are three restorations that I'm aware of.  In case you didn't see it, here is a post with some pictures from my October visit to one of them.  It certainly doesn't have any route to speak of, but they have a nice collection of cars and a museum that I still hope to explore: Forum topic in Narrow Gauge RR, Potland, Maine.

Thanks for the pix and info on the Old Spaghetti Factory.  For those interested, my notes (taken from Bera.org), say that the SEATTLE restaurant's trolley is a 1917 St. Louis Car Co., Birney Safety model, part of order #1117.  My notes are sloppy, but it looks like it was #360 Puget Sound Traction Light & Power.  And then PPS in 1938?  A related link said that it was a Bellingham Birney.  With the restaurant's pending closure, I wonder what will happen to it?  Enjoyed your story about your wife and the trolley suspension at the Tacoma location. Definitely not the place to order Jello for dessert .

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Scale Rail, your Fog City photos are really inviting! It looks like a really fun place.  This diner is what diner fans call an "on-site" diner because it wasn't built by one of the typical diner manufacturers and then shipped to the location.  As far as diner buildings go, it's a young'un having been built in 1985.   There are a few diners serving nouvelle cuisine, which can be surprising to those who just want eggs sunny-side up any time of the day :-)

From your photos, it almost looks like it has two "looks": the funky neon lettering with the 50s-style checkerboard walls and a patio versus what looks like a more restrained side, more in the classic dining car style of maybe the forties and the switch to block lettering for the name. The placement of the side lights nearer to the sidewalk instead of the more typical location in between the windows is an interesting touch.  Someday I hope to add a post comparing external and internal lighting on these rail and trolley conversions with diner buildings.  The external placement of side lights makes the buildings -- converted cars or otherwise -- look like a railcar turned inside out.

Then there's that vertical work on the roof-line.  I see the addition of vertical lines as one of the big design departures from the railcar look.  It's more down-to-earth than the sense of horizontal movement you see on a railcar.  But that's enough of my blathering about architecture; thanks for the nice photos.

TRRR

I am saddened to report that the Diner Grill in Chicago suffered a fire on Christmas Eve. The 80 year old owner says that the 70 year old diner will reopen. The diner opened before WWII, and the structure was formed of two Evanston, IL streetcars. I don't know how much of the internal structure has been damaged .

http://chicago.eater.com/2016/...d-fire-christmas-eve

http://chicago.eater.com/2013/...urger-at-diner-grill