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Good advice, all around.  Years ago I had a large 40' x 12' Super 'O' layout, with a 10' 'L' shaped extension for the classification & freight yard.  With that layout, and all the previous ones I've built, I too, always mounted the transformers on a separate panel, not on the layout itself.

Other than the obvious advantage of having more room for track & scenery, repairs and wiring problems  can be dealt with much more easily if the transformers are readily  accessible, and even better if the entire control panel can be moved for internal wiring access. Installation of modular 'jacks' or plugs will allow your transformer master control panel to be disconnected rather quickly, instead of having to unscrew myriads of thumb nuts.

Good luck to you! Building and operating a well-maintained model pike is one of the greatest joys our hobby has to offer.

-Len Carparelli

Each of my two Z-4000 transformers is mounted on its own stand at the side of the table. The legs and frame are like the rest of the benchwork – by Mianne. The stands are usually cluttered with locomotives and anything else that needs to be put somewhere. The transformer/switch-control wiring is easily accessible from below but the transformers get in the way when taking layout photos. The transformer at left also powers my smaller layout, visible at the upper left of first photo. If I had it to do over again, I would put the transformers on a shelf directly beneath the table. My father did a beautiful job of finishing the plywood on which the transformers sit. That will remain unchanged as long as this layout is in operation.

MELGAR

MELGAR_TRANSFORMER_STANDSMELGAR_TRANSFORMER_RHSMELGAR_TRANSFORMER_LHS

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Last edited by MELGAR

Hi RAILRUNNIN Paul,

When I had the trainroom expanded, which included moving this door (on the left in all four photos,) which connects the basement to the garage, to where you see it, here, I had this niche built in its wall for all the ZWs and the TMCC equipment.IMG_8610IMG_8612 When I face this ensemble, I have a direct view of our guests coming down the stairs into the room.IMG_8599 Also, this positioning is somewhat central photo 2x_edited-1to the entire layout's viewing aisles, so I can communicate with guests and answer their questions and receive their observations with ease and conviviality as they move around the layout.

Previous to this arrangement, all the ZWs were on a shelf under the layout, at its edge, so that meant my back was often toward our guests. We quickly realized that conversing with me was a priority of our guests to the trainroom, so facing them and not being bent over was primary in this new positioning of the entire transformers system.

FrankM, Moon Township, USA

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Last edited by Moonson

6C07A633-AEDD-489E-BB99-C9CB79E802F2I have both. For my basement layout, I whipped up a 3 shelf table. ZW controller, and some switches on top, switches for my turnouts below, and the two 135w bricks on the bottom. Not fancy, maybe not ergonomically correct, but it works.

 When I built my Christmas tree layout, 19 years ago, my train guy recommended a BW80. I bolted it to the platform, and surrounded it with the switches. It looked wonderful. Then I needed a new transformer. It had to fit in the same spot, so I got the GW180. I have had nothing but trouble with it, and can’t get parts to fix it. I now run the train with the 180, and have a big MRC behind the tree that powers the accessories. Never design the transformer into the layout.

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Last edited by Scrambler81

Frank MOONSON, this is what's known as a STACK as in amplifier cabinets! a five stack! lol. very interesting.

Fendermain, showroom styling! so clear of obstruction and mayhem.  clean o clean machines, yeah buddy, but did you see the STACK?.

Arnold, all I can say is that its totally  fascinating that It Works so well! And folks, I have seen it run flawlessly in person!

Melgar, a great behind the scenes pictorial of the power tables.

cant send a photo, still at work.  my ZW is on an adjustable keyboard -X- stand with wooden computer keyboard shelf across, accompanied by track pliers, lubes, wire stripper, screw drivers and an original ZW instruction sheet and a power strip with on/off button. When I replace my long lost pre war Z or V it will reside next to ZW. switch controllers  will stretch this arrangement horizontally.

MELGAR posted:

Arnold,

Are you available for transformer installations and wiring assistance???

MELGAR

Oh, Yes!

This thread inspired me to do something for the first time in 25 years: vacuum all the dust and debris in and about my transformers and Atlas switches.

I think what I did was a mistake. The dirt and debris is much more realistic. Just take a look at the right of way of real trains. 

Consolation prize: maybe the vacuuming will reduce my coughing. LOL, Arnold

 

Rescued Trains posted:
Fendermain posted:

Mine are mounted close to the table top...I almost consider them part of the scenery.

FendermainIMG_2386 [1)

Fendermain, Great looking layout, how about some more pics?

Steve

Thanks Steve for the comments.  Here are a couple shots...some areas are being modded a bit now.

FendermainIMG_1997IMG_2462IMG_1855

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Leroof posted:

Frank MOONSON, this is what's known as a STACK as in amplifier cabinets! a five stack! lol. very interesting.

Fendermain, showroom styling! so clear of obstruction and mayhem.  clean o clean machines, yeah buddy, but did you see the STACK?.

Arnold, all I can say is that its totally  fascinating that It Works so well! And folks, I have seen it run flawlessly in person!

Melgar, a great behind the scenes pictorial of the power tables.

cant send a photo, still at work.  my ZW is on an adjustable keyboard -X- stand with wooden computer keyboard shelf across, accompanied by track pliers, lubes, wire stripper, screw drivers and an original ZW instruction sheet and a power strip with on/off button. When I replace my long lost pre war Z or V it will reside next to ZW. switch controllers  will stretch this arrangement horizontally.

Leroof      The stack yes...quite an awesome display of power and imagination.  Jim Marshall would approve.

Fendermain

Last edited by Fendermain

I have the transformers on a cantilevered shelf.  Each one is connected to a panel in the fascia.  The rotary switches allow any of the four transformers to power any or all of the three routes.  The small power pack on the right is for the streetcar track.  The little box allows me to change from AC to DC on one of the transformers so I can run just about anything.  Sorry guys.  No TMCC or Legacy or DSC.  But Flyer Chief is fine.  My grandson LOVES it!

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Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Good topic, Paul.

Mine is hilarious. I had no idea what I was doing. I dreamed this nightmare up, but by some miracle, it works and I've never had a short because of IMG_0850this arrangement for over 20 years!

The top of the train table is about 15 inches higher than the Z4000 transformer.

LOL, Arnold

 

Arnold I thought I recognized your work.bad wiring [2)

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I have a mixture of locations. My Post War Super O layout has a separate lower attached table with the transformer and accessory controllers position lower than the table so the grandkids can control. My new, almost finished, Pre War layout has the transformer and switch controllers mounted on the table top. This was dictated by space limits and accessibility within the room. Smaller transformer is attached to the inside bench work frame to power the lights. 9CBB81AC-57B4-43B6-87FC-CB38D82E17EF67465E82-C6F6-47AA-96F5-17BC043AAA49

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Arnold D. Cribari posted:
MELGAR posted:

Arnold,

Are you available for transformer installations and wiring assistance???

MELGAR

Oh, Yes!

This thread inspired me to do something for the first time in 25 years: vacuum all the dust and debris in and about my transformers and Atlas switches.

I think what I did was a mistake. The dirt and debris is much more realistic. Just take a look at the right of way of real trains. 

Consolation prize: maybe the vacuuming will reduce my coughing. LOL, Arnold

 

Careful, Arnold ….. all that dirt, dust and debris may be a structural component by now !

This is an interesting thread, showing different ways people have approached the control issues. The Plywood Empire Route has standardized on PS3 SW1500s under DCS so the only transformer needed is a Z 1000 power brick which supplies 14VAC for track power and accessories;

        IMG_4187

The heavy red and black wires are busses. Wire nuts are used for all wiring connections and junctions. Simple, cheap, quick and pretty much bullet-proof.

       IMG_4188

Wiring on the Plywood Empire Route tends to be on the free-spirit end of the spectrum . Locomotive controls are pretty simple (on the outside-some nifty electronics in there).

A DCS Remote:

                      IMG_4150

and it's IR receiver:

                      IMG_4189

No central control panel or table at all:

        IMG_4190

Track switch, remote uncoupler and car-stopper controls are on mini-panels spread around where needed.

        IMG_4191

The bottom panel controls a Lionel electromagnetic gantry crane.

This is a small simple switching pike with a total of seven track switches, six car-stoppers and eleven remote-uncouplers. One locomotive suffices, hence the Remote Commander.

 

 

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Last edited by geysergazer
tncentrr posted:
Fendermain posted:

Mine are mounted close to the table top...I almost consider them part of the scenery.

FendermainIMG_2386 [1)

Fendermain,

I absolutely love your use of tinplate and post war items on your layout above. Thank you for sharing.

tncentrr thanks for the vote of confidence.  It's a balancing act...colors and textures mater.

Fendermain

Melvin P posted:

I have come to the conclusion that neat wiring is a product of a sick mind. (LOL)

Melvin, Here's my sick mind. Please don't shoot me over this. Just trying to keep it lite-hearted.

My transformer is in the garage...….     I'm currently building my Christmas layout.

Mines on the right. The real one is on the left.

DSCN0381

 Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

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Last edited by Jayhawk500

Good stuff guys.  Here is my three cents worth...

First train room.  The Z4000 is sitting on a large drum of joint compound that's at least 30 years old.  The ZW is 60 years old, has a brother that ran the first family layouts, and still runs like a top.  Somehow, wires keep being added to this setup, which includes part of our old attic layout's wooden power distribution board.

20191113_150947[1]

Third train room.   All kinds of junk and another forest of wires behind another distribution board.  That ZW is a used one I picked up about 4 years ago.  It sits on an old phonograph table that slides in and out.  The CW80 runs lights and a trolley line. 

20191113_151114[1]

Overhead layout.   You can see the power wires going up to the ceiling.  That's the other 60 year old ZW from the first family layouts.  Sitting on an old cabinet we made for VCR's and video equipment that is now useless.   It rolls and the shelves slide, but I don't move it.

20191113_151208[1]

It ain't pretty but, they're all out of the way of people watching the trains.

Jerry

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I never have enough space on the layout itself to mount the transformers, unless I was willing to put them off in the corner.  My approach has been to put them on a slide out shelf.  When the trains were being run I'd have the shelf pulled out.  When they weren't the shelf would be slid back in so the transformers were under the layout.

 

The last layout had two transformer shelves.  In addition to the one on the outside edge that I used when just running trains I had a separate one located under a pop out in the middle of town.  This allowed me to work the industrial sidings that were within arms reach of that pop out.  The ultimate plan was to have the layout divided into blocks so it would be possible to operate from both locations at the same time, but things didn't get that far.

Melvin P posted:

I have come to the conclusion that neat wiring is a product of a sick mind. (LOL)

Melvin,

I somewhat agree.  Although my shelf and wiring looks pretty neat on top, behind the fascia it's a different story.  I made the little panel and rotary switch panel removable for maintenance if necessary (notice all the spade terminals).  I used a heavy gauge wire for safety sake, so they're not real flexible.  But once in place, they're not going anywhere.

It's been great seeing other guys' efforts on this topic!  Thanks to all of you!

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Last edited by poniaj
poniaj posted:
Melvin P posted:

I have come to the conclusion that neat wiring is a product of a sick mind. (LOL)

Melvin,

I somewhat agree.  Although my shelf and wiring looks pretty neat on top, behind the fascia it's a different story.  

Does that mean I have a healthy/beautiful mind? LOL:

IMG_0853

Seriously, the Z4000 controls the 2 independently powered main lines. The ZW on the top right and Atlas switches control the independently powered 8 sidings and numerous accessories. The ZW on the lower left controls the 15 independently powered 022 switch tracks, and the KW on the lower right controls an independently powered passing siding on the inside main line that also connects to 3 of the sidings, and independently powered remote control uncoupling/unloading tracks.

All of my main lines and sidings are interconnected.

I also have an SW transformer on top of a small storage unit a foot below the far left side of the layout (not shown in photo) that controls the lights in my village and the Animated Newstand accessory on that section of my layout.

I have plenty of power, and never had a short in 25 years because of the wiring. All of the feeder wires are soldered onto copper strips in front of the Z4000, ZW and Atlas Switches on the top of the small table in the photo; and short wires go from those copper strips to those 2 transformers.

I run conventional only, and the only remotes I have are 3 LionChief Plus (LC+) dedicated remotes, an LC+ Universal remote, and the LC App on my smartphone.

I learned block wiring for all my independently powered main lines and sidings from Greenberg's Model Railroading with Lionel Trains, Vol. 2: An Advanced Layout, which I highly recommend. It is my model railroad bible.

Arnold

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PRRMP54 posted:

High up on the pole, out of the way :

Chester, SC 001

Oh, you mean on the "layout":

IMG_2611

PRRMP54,

I have been an electric power engineer for 37 years. Your top picture shows a wood arm burned through and a fused cutout, that should be attached to the arm, dangling off to the side. The phase conductor that is attached to our right end of that arm is in danger of coming loose and falling to the ground where someone could come in contact with it and be INJURED or KILLED. This is not a joke. If you know who the utility is that owns that pole please contact them immediately and get them to replace that arm! They should probably install new double wood arms at this location. Please believe me when I say this is a dangerous condition and needs to be addressed as soon as possible. It is an accident waiting to happen.

Bill,  Got them, really need a video to show everything.  This view is only one of several.  I have another pair of  Z's located to the right of photo, ZWs located below, eight additional Z-1000s plus eight additional CM-20 MRC power packs at various towns located around the train room.  The TIU and hand helds are awaiting Z-4000.  However, all that is taking a back seat to my recent battery R/C activity.

This RR is a combination of 2 and 3 rail activity with an On3 segment  construction effort starting to service a mountain branch line.

tncentrr posted:
PRRMP54 posted:

High up on the pole, out of the way :

Chester, SC 001

Oh, you mean on the "layout":

IMG_2611

PRRMP54,

I have been an electric power engineer for 37 years. Your top picture shows a wood arm burned through and a fused cutout, that should be attached to the arm, dangling off to the side. The phase conductor that is attached to our right end of that arm is in danger of coming loose and falling to the ground where someone could come in contact with it and be INJURED or KILLED. This is not a joke. If you know who the utility is that owns that pole please contact them immediately and get them to replace that arm! They should probably install new double wood arms at this location. Please believe me when I say this is a dangerous condition and needs to be addressed as soon as possible. It is an accident waiting to happen.

Chances are that’s why the photo was taken. My guess is that it was a news or social media photo revealing the damage.

 Not sure where this photo came from. Hopefully not a copyrighted news website.

sncf231e posted:

For the outside track I have a separate cart which can be rolled outside from the garage:

Inside all controllers are at an extension of the train table:

Regards

Fred

Nice , Fred!  But where do your automobiles go?  At my place, my wife gets one stall, and my street rod gets the other.  My 1937 Ford and Mullins trailer do NOT ever see sn*w.  And my wife's car will NOT be scraped of ice and sn*w in the Winter.  Now, the basement is quite another story.

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poniaj posted:
sncf231e posted:
 

Nice , Fred!  But where do your automobiles go?  At my place, my wife gets one stall, and my street rod gets the other.  My 1937 Ford and Mullins trailer do NOT ever see sn*w.  And my wife's car will NOT be scraped of ice and sn*w in the Winter.  Now, the basement is quite another story.

Nice car!

I do not have a car. I sold it a couple of years ago because I didn't need it anymore. I have a bicycle and a bus stop and train station within a few minutes walk. Anyway, when I had  a car it never went in the garage.

Regards

Fred

My control center is in front of the yard/turntable area of an "L" shape 28ft. X 18ft. layout--- still under construction.  The 180w bricks are below & near the edge of the layout for easy reset access.  I have various switch & power controls on the fascia for specific areas on the layout.  I operate conventional with remotes (I have a lot of conventional locomotives).

Dennis

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