I've always had Lionel three-rail track. When I watch videos from England, they all seem to have O-gauge with two rails. Is the two-rail version of O-gauge popular here? I had never seen it before. I'm staying with Lionel, but I'm just curious.
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3-rail O Gauge is long since, dead in the U.K. OO Gauge displaced it in the 1950s and 1960s, although it was pretty much a niche scale favoured by scratch-builders by then anyway - which is still its position now.
2 Rail O Scale is very alive in the US. It is more of modeler's/Builders niche than a collectors's niche. MTH one of the big 3 rail mfg, has produced 2 rail versions of their products on and off. Lionel has not produced 2 rail stuff that I am aware of. I have heard that they are offering 2 rail trucks to convert some of their cars. Weaver, who has gone out of business, and Atlas imported or mfg most of their products in both 2 and 3 rail. Generally 2 rail models are built to 1:48 scale. In the 3 rail realm, there are a variety of product lines by mfg and some are not to scale and some are.
2 rail O scale is a lot smaller market than 3 rail, but it still exists and it relatively easy to find if you look. Many of the suppliers, importers and mfg in 2 rail are small shops vs big corporations like Lionel and MTH, For this reason most 2 rail O scale is made to NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) standards and recommendations. That way, generally, products from all the different mfg are compatible and work together.
Not to forget Proto48 Fine Scale. This is 1:48 O at it's finest! Visit www.proto48.org to see for yourself.
Item: The late Bob Hegge constructed his Crooked Mountain Lines electric railway to 1:48 Fine Scale using Code 100 track albeit the layout wasn't built to Proto48 standards. His models were outstanding just the same.
There is a lot to be considered. Do your homework. IMO Three rail worked best for me, IMO.
And then there's MY empire...I run 3-rail wheeled engines and rolling stock on 2-rail code 148 track, all using battery powered remote control 
(just search on BPRC).
Magic 3-rail word? Lionel. Thank goodness they didn't want world domination, just O-gaugers!
Jason
3 rail O was developed as a toy train, Joshua Lionel chose 3 rail because it made wiring a lot simpler, no problems with reverse loops for example. The trains were representative of real trains for the most part, again designed for kids to use (well, in theory....).
2 rail O emerged I believe in the 30's, when I would assume adults wanted to have more realistic trains, it was when HO started growing in popularity. For engines from what I have read people converted Lionel 3 rail engines to 2 (Frank Ellison used outside third rail, still not prototypical), and there were a small group of manufacturers who started offering 2 rail O running 12v DC like HO, offered rail.
3 rail in terms of size of market has dominated 2, even as 2 rail scale did grow over time, in part because especially before the 1960's, Lionel 0 was a mass market product. Even after Lionel went into decline it still was bigger than 2 rail, even as more manufacturers started producing in 2 rail. In recent decades 3 rail changed, it went from the semi scale to toylike post war mode to being scale models, a lot of people got into 3 rail as scale modelers (obviously semi scale is still out there), and of course the entry of MTH and Atlas also made 3 rail bigger.
2 rail 0 is still out there, it is of course much smaller than HO or N , and it is also one of the reasons that 3 rail O scale modelling dwarfs it, and that is space. 3 rail O, even scale, has compromises to make it run on tighter curves, things like truck mounted couples, longer drawbars on engines, blind drivers (non flanged), are compromises to allow scale size but run in relatively smaller spaces. 2 rail O scale generally requires larger radius curves that many people don't have the room for (and that is a generalization, even 3 rail O scale can require larger radii to work or look good, like O36 radius/O72 diameter, but that would likely be larger in 2 rail scale for a similar engine. (it is also why for all the scale equipment, a lot of people stay with smaller scale 3 rail or semi scale, because they don't have room for larger curves)
2 rail scale as I mentioned is 12v DC, it operates the same way as HO does. In terms of command control it has one big advantage, most engines in 2 rail O that support command control use DCC, the industry standard, there is no bifurcation like 3 rail (MTH made engines that could be switched from 3 rail to 2 rail, the command control system supported DCC or DCS, MTH's own system), where Lionel and MTH had 2 different, incompatible systems for the most part. 2 rail scale also has the polarity issue with reversing loops, but these days thanks to automated polarity control you no longer have to manually control the rail polarity to prevent a short.
Basically comes down to what drives a person, 3 rail semi scale allows you in relative smaller spaces to be able to run a variety of equipment on tighter radii curves, but it won't be as scale appearing; 3 rail scale is less of a compromise, the equipment is more scale appearing, looks more realistic, but of course it has the third rail, and it employs other compromises like truck mounted couplers, drawbar lengths, blind drivers, removed steps and such on overhangs to allow tighter curves.
2 rail scale like any scale equipment still has compromises, but they are a lot less, 2 rail scale has body mounter couplers, has fine detail not possible on 3 rail scale always, has small flanges to allow more scale track in terms of height .
Proto 48 is sort of the ultimate, O has one factor that goes across O 3 rail and 2 rail, the gauge works out to 5' scale, when prototype is 4' 8 1/2". Proto 48 means track that is gauged properly, that the ties are spaced to prototype spacing, and generally is using code 100 track as well.
Price is also a factor, semi scale tends to be cheaper, significantly so, scale equipment 2 or 3 rail is more expensive, so it is another compromise, budget plays into it, too.
Not to forget German manufacture Märklin HO also operateds on AC current just as traditional three rail does.
Märklin in the past released models wired for two rail DC under the HAMO name. Their idea was to offer Fleischmann and Trix operators a better variety of products on the market at the time when HAMO was introduced. It worked too!
So to the big Lionel fans of 3 rail,
do you know Lionel made 2 rail stuff? 
How about their 2 rail PRR T-1? (Passed on buying one and it still is in my mind.)
If the movers and shakers of the 2RO world had had a history of compromise (optional, engineered for easy addition/removal blind center drivers, swinging pilots, truck-mounted couplers when needed for tighter spaces, and so forth) over the years, I would not have a 3RO layout. I would be in 2-rail. But, most 2RO equipment of the large steam (or diesel) variety requires a barn. "Big 072" diameter (36" radius) curves are tiny in the 2-rail world.
3RO Hi-Rail standards can live in the real modeling world, where most of us want a home layout and very few have anything to do with an often-shaky club. That middle rail still bothers me, but I've moved past it.
@Engineer-Joe posted:So to the big Lionel fans of 3 rail,
do you know Lionel made 2 rail stuff?
How about their 2 rail PRR T-1? (Passed on buying one and it still is in my mind.)
You forgot about the Smithsonian Dreyfus Hudson and matching scale passenger cars back in the 1990's. Beautiful set, even by today's standards. Don't know how well the locomotive ran as it seemed to be a set geared toward collectors.
What started you modelling O? For a lot of Americans it was what did Dad, Uncle have or what could you buy down the store? For me, living in England, it was what looks almost as good as the real thing? Totally different.
Before I focussed on the D&H after my first Nth American vacation in 1974, I had bought a second-hand US Hobbies UP 2-8-0 which comfortably went round 30" radius curves. Nobody has ever made a D&H 4-8-4 so I've never been disappointed. The US Hobbies D&H SD45 I painted does it just fine.
Running trains round and round is what I do at my local club - testing the new builds, the DCC, the 3-rail conversions, coupler height, etc. Back home is all about industries, car cards and switching. Sounds and slow-speed control and a track plan that gets you a 45 minute session does it for me.
For all of us, model railroads is IT. Teaches us so many skills over time.
Jason
@AGHRMatt posted:You forgot about the Smithsonian Dreyfus Hudson and matching scale passenger cars back in the 1990's. Beautiful set, even by today's standards. Don't know how well the locomotive ran as it seemed to be a set geared toward collectors.
No, I didn't forget them.
I have 2 from MTH so I don't need them!
I'd forgotten about the 2-rail T-1, Matt, 2001. Yes, everybody needs one 
. Lionel have produced some very nice, scale freight cars, well worth converting to 2-rail: autoracks, tanks, 2-bay hoppers (diecast 
, but we know why ), covered hoppers, those PS-1 40ft boxcars are probably the nicest mass market version ever. I got a Rock Island version to repaint D&H, but couldn't bring myself to.
jason
Lionel also made two and three rail oo (double O) trains and track before WWII. I have the three rail which is 027 as a train on a mountain. The Two rail was a wider diameter and did not have switches available. I forget the 2 rail radius at this time but I am sure someone can give that answer. Trains are fun.
@Jason Dickie posted:I got a Rock Island version to repaint D&H, but couldn't bring myself to.
jason
Go ahead and do it. You will like the results:
This was a Lionel Air Reduction PS 1 Boxcar
@Jerryc41 posted:I've always had Lionel three-rail track. When I watch videos from England, they all seem to have O-gauge with two rails. Is the two-rail version of O-gauge popular here? I had never seen it before. I'm staying with Lionel, but I'm just curious.
A few years old, but this video provides a good view into what's possible (and happening) in O scale 2 rail.
Great video. Thanks Ted!
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