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I started the Campaign for the 3rd Rail E7 and we got it...now I need your help

Owners of the 1940 GGD 20th Century cars unite!!

We need Scott to do the early "reverse gray" scheme that matches the superb 1940 GGD passenger cars. The cars are very heavy, and my 3rd Rail Dreyfuss won't pull them all. I need to pull the entire train, and a powered AB E7 or and ABA set will do the trick. This would be a great thing to do for all the 3RS and 3R guys that bought the entire train, so we can actually pull it.

The real catch is, if anyone has ever seen this scheme, it is an eye catcher, and maybe the most beautiful scheme you can put on an E7. All right guys, how about a little help so I can pull my perfect train? I'll even take the 2 railers help on this one! Wink Razz

Plus... I do not think that this scheme has ever been done in any scale on an E7? We know how much Scott loves to be first.....
Last edited {1}
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Oh, so it was your idea? Well, at least we’ll know where to place the blame.

Anyway, since I too own a hefty GGD 1940 Century set and the beautiful but comparatively anemic Hudson 3rd Rail provided to power it, I agree completely with this request. The brass 4-6-4 simply isn’t up to the task, so to get the train underway I have to resort to a die-cast Niagara of another make. This is neither inappropriate nor unsightly, (see the Howard Fogg dust jacket for Lucius Beebe’s classic title, 20th Century) but also not my idea of a fully matched train, and certainly not good advertising for the 3rd Rail / GGD combo. Tsk.

Well-modeled and properly detailed E7s in the early NYC high lightning stripe, reversed gray color scheme at least would give owners of this set (like myself, of course) the ability to make up an appropriate, amply powered, and color-matched engine set for the train.

They were unusual and good-looking indeed. The Central men of the time called them "Beauty Queens," and they have not yet been done in O scale. Bring ‘em on.

Crank
There is this guy Jeff Sohn who posts occasionally - I would contact him if Sunset does not produce this thing for you in the paint scheme you want. I have no idea what he charges, but from what I have heard, his work is just fine.

Or, you could do it yourself. I have done one with medium results, and next time I will be using Tamiya fine line masking tape instead of cutting my own. Even though I am not satisfied, it was fun un-masking all those lightning stripes.
quote:
Originally posted by hibar:
Did the NYC have B units in this scheme?
Yes. A photo of DPA-1a No. 4004 (E7 A) and a DPB-1a (E7 B) new at EMD appears on page 103 of New York Central System Diesel Locomotives (Edson, Vail, and Smith; TLC Publishing, 1995). These units were in the second group of E7 units delivered to the Central in October 1945.
quote:
Originally posted by hibar:
Were there just 2 sets A-A in the first order? I assume numbered 4000 to 4003 and what year were they delivered in.
The NYC's first order (E-639) for E7 units included eight A units and four B units, presumably to be operated in four A-B-A sets of 6,000hp each* (roughly equivalent to an S-1b Niagara, which were being delivered from ALCo at the same time). However, they were delivered in two groups: four A units (Nos. 4000 through 4003) in March 1945, with the balance of the order (A units Nos. 4004 through 4007, and B units Nos. 4100 through 4103) in October 1945.

* In practice, however, the photographic evidence suggests that the NYC almost always operated these units as 4,000hp A-A or A-B consists, not as A-B-A consists, even after the second half of the order was delivered. Perhaps their experience with the first four A units from March through October 1945 demonstrated that they didn't need to match the horsepower of a Niagara to keep the Century on time.
Last edited by jdmavanti
quote:
Pete,
As soon as Scott returns from the Orient we'll talk and probably add the scheme to the reservation form.


Rheil,

It would not hurt to advertise these as the "Beauty Queens" as they were coined. Also as motive power for the 1940 GGD 20th Century cars and not just another paint scheme, like the Milwaukee and GN units. Scott should make some kind of announcement, not just stick it on the sheet. I believe this is the premier and most classy of all the E7 paint schemes.
quote:
Originally posted by William:
I doubt this would ever happen, a Frisco painted E7 for the
Texas Special. It would have to have the stainles steel side panels as well.
this would creat another locomotive type to the slim mix.

william


True but... It has yet to be said whether or not the CBQ E7s will have stainless side panels or painted. It does say for the CZ.

Richard
quote:
The cars are very heavy, and my 3rd Rail Dreyfuss won't pull them all.


quote:
The NYC's first order (E-639) for E7 units included eight A units and four B units, presumably to be operated in four A-B-A sets of 6,000hp each (roughly equivalent to an S-1b Niagara, which were being delivered from ALCo at the same time).


It's a shame that in our 1/48 world the horsepower is nowhere near the prototype.

Count me out Pete as I don't have the 1940 passenger cars.
quote:
Originally posted by rdunniii:
quote:
Originally posted by William:
I doubt this would ever happen, a Frisco painted E7 for the
Texas Special. It would have to have the stainles steel side panels as well.
this would creat another locomotive type to the slim mix.

william


True but... It has yet to be said whether or not the CBQ E7s will have stainless side panels or painted. It does say for the CZ.

Richard


Not all CB&Q E7s, received the polished stainless steel side panels. Upon delivery from EMD ALL the Burlington E7A units, both phase I and phaseII, where delivered painted "silver" (actual color was bright aluminum). Only certain road numbers received the stainless steel side panels, after going thru rebuild at the West Burlington, Ia shops, beginning about the late 1950s. Many E7A units worked daily on the CZ without stainless side panels, right up until the units where scrapped/traded in.

Thus, GGD will be offering those painted "silver" E7A units by specific road number, for correct CB&Q accuracy.
quote:
Originally posted by DominicMazoch:
When did the NYC "reverse" the two grey tones on diesels and passenger cars.
The original light gray carbody / dark gray lightning stripe and all-black lightning stripe paint schemes from the 1945 order were gone by the time that the Central received the second order of E7's in 1947.

Repainting of the passenger car fleet into a similar dark gray carbody / light gray window stripe design was begun in 1948.
Last edited by jdmavanti
quote:
Originally posted by GG1 4877:
Question for the NYC fans. Is the reverse scheme identical to the one us uninitiated are used to, or are there differences in the location of the stripes, details of the painting etc?
The original NYC lightning stripes are not the same as the 1947 and later design. The most obvious difference is that the nose stripes on the '45 version are higher; on the '47 scheme, they turn horizontal lower on the nose, probably to avoid the larger, angled numberboards on later cab units. Differences are also apparent in the size and shape of the zigs, the length of the nose whiskers, the spacing from centerline of the stripes, the placement of the oval NYC nose herald, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Pete Kruimer:
I started the Campaign for the 3rd Rail E7 and we got it...now I need your help

Owners of the 1940 GGD 20th Century cars unite!!

We need Scott to do the early "reverse gray" scheme that matches the superb 1940 GGD passenger cars. The cars are very heavy, and my 3rd Rail Dreyfuss won't pull them all. I need to pull the entire train, and a powered AB E7 or and ABA set will do the trick. This would be a great thing to do for all the 3RS and 3R guys that bought the entire train, so we can actually pull it.

The real catch is, if anyone has ever seen this scheme, it is an eye catcher, and maybe the most beautiful scheme you can put on an E7. All right guys, how about a little help so I can pull my perfect train? I'll even take the 2 railers help on this one! Wink Razz

Plus... I do not think that this scheme has ever been done in any scale on an E7? We know how much Scott loves to be first.....


get frogsnot on your drivers and you will pull your passenger. my weaver hudson would not pull 8 mth plastic 70 footers and with frog snot it easily pulls 11.
The last Lionel "northerns" I saw, the UP FEF-3 & SP GS-4 Legacy models, where over $1000, and the recently issued NKP 765 Legacy model was over $1000.

Besides, Sunset/3rd Rail brass steam locomotive models are much more highly detailed, not to mention dimensional correctness, than a comparable Lionel model. And lastly, Sunset/3rd Rail brass models are VERY low production numbers while Lionel and/or MTH produce 500 or more pieces in die-cast.
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