4877:
You are NOT going over to that other passenger facility in NYC?
Not a chance. Just learning to be an expert on all things E7 considered.
quote:Originally posted by jdmavanti:
The original NYC lightning stripes are not the same as the 1947 and later design. The most obvious difference is that the nose stripes on the '45 version are higher; on the '47 scheme, they turn horizontal lower on the nose, probably to avoid the larger, angled numberboards on later cab units.
Just as a matter of curiosity, did NYC leave the small number boards in place right to the end?
The second run will be different road names .... 
Perhaps, and I certainly hope so, but anyone placing an order on line today is only offered the same choices that made up the first run. Details, details ...
Crank
Crank
No decision has been made on road names for the 2nd run yet. Most likely will include NYC early scheme and PRR single stripe plus numerous others.
Good Day my friends.
I see that one 3rd Rail Representative says that the 2nd run will be different road names, and another 3rd Rail Rep states that no decision has been made on road names for the second run, but most likely will include the NYC Beauty Queen Scheme. Can either of the fine gentlemen verify or collaborate their statements? At this point, I would be most interested, and would indeed send in a kindly letter of reserve for an AA set of the NYC early scheme locomotives.
I see that one 3rd Rail Representative says that the 2nd run will be different road names, and another 3rd Rail Rep states that no decision has been made on road names for the second run, but most likely will include the NYC Beauty Queen Scheme. Can either of the fine gentlemen verify or collaborate their statements? At this point, I would be most interested, and would indeed send in a kindly letter of reserve for an AA set of the NYC early scheme locomotives.
Rudolf - both statements are true. Simply a question of semantics of roadname / vs. paint schemes.
Rudolf,
I suggest you send an e-mail to sdmann@3rdrail with your desire to see the early NYC scheme. That will assist the cause. And, while Jonathan (GG1 4877) is a fine gentleman, I don't consider myself in that category. Coarse-yes. Fine-no.
I suggest you send an e-mail to sdmann@3rdrail with your desire to see the early NYC scheme. That will assist the cause. And, while Jonathan (GG1 4877) is a fine gentleman, I don't consider myself in that category. Coarse-yes. Fine-no.
Good Evening Mr. Peiffer,
I do not believe the difference between roadnames and color schemes is a matter of semantics, but I find this thread to be quite interesting. Interesting my fine fellow model railroaders, in regards to what makes a fine paint scheme. The NYC "Beauty Queen" is a true work of art. One that would indeed look fine over the fire place as proof of one's taste concerning prototype rail roads. A true gentleman would never have to remove this piece from its throne if company were to come over, as one may when displaying a mid western road. In my day proper gentlemen road the 20th Century, and to see this paint scheme produced by such a firm as 3rd rail would be glorious indeed.
I do not believe the difference between roadnames and color schemes is a matter of semantics, but I find this thread to be quite interesting. Interesting my fine fellow model railroaders, in regards to what makes a fine paint scheme. The NYC "Beauty Queen" is a true work of art. One that would indeed look fine over the fire place as proof of one's taste concerning prototype rail roads. A true gentleman would never have to remove this piece from its throne if company were to come over, as one may when displaying a mid western road. In my day proper gentlemen road the 20th Century, and to see this paint scheme produced by such a firm as 3rd rail would be glorious indeed.
quote:Originally posted by jdmavanti:The NYC's first order (E-639) for E7 units included eight A units and four B units, presumably to be operated in four A-B-A sets of 6,000hp each* (roughly equivalent to an S-1b Niagara, which were being delivered from ALCo at the same time). However, they were delivered in two groups: four A units (Nos. 4000 through 4003) in March 1945, with the balance of the order (A units Nos. 4004 through 4007, and B units Nos. 4100 through 4103) in October 1945.quote:Originally posted by hibar:
Were there just 2 sets A-A in the first order? I assume numbered 4000 to 4003 and what year were they delivered in.
* In practice, however, the photographic evidence suggests that the NYC almost always operated these units as 4,000hp A-A or A-B consists, not as A-B-A consists, even after the second half of the order was delivered. Perhaps their experience with the first four A units from March through October 1945 demonstrated that they didn't need to match the horsepower of a Niagara to keep the Century on time.
I recall reading an article by Kiefer in 'Railway Age' that was either a precursor to or a synopsis of "A Practical...' wherein he stated that two units in actual practice were able to keep the Century on time; the greater hp of the Niagaras only came into play when the train was seriously delayed, and needed to make up time. However, ironically most of these delays were attributable to steam haulage, especially the effects of winter [ = freezing ] weather on watering / coaling.
Best rgds, SZ
Now, will the SP units have "SHASTA" on the nose were the Sunset logo would go, or the regular sunset logo. The first SP E7's were purchased to power that train.
Thanks for the "new" art work, but it's still First Run and the Beauty Queens aren't there.
Crank
Crank
Thanks for the update Scott. I was hoping for the 4 stripe and large number boards on the CB&Q units, but this will have to do.
Will the CB&Q units have the nose vent decals as seen in this photo?
Photo credit to Juice Junkie
Thanks again!
Will the CB&Q units have the nose vent decals as seen in this photo?
Photo credit to Juice Junkie
Thanks again!
The Burlington Units will have the nose vent decals.
Where did you get that image GG1? Did not see it on the 3rd Rail site.
Jonathan is doing the artwork for our E7 project. So expect nice looking, accurately decorated models.
Scott
Scott
Good Day Mr, Mann!
Would that indeed include nice looking, accurately decorated NYC Beauty Queens to reserve on the 2nd run?
When, may I ask sir, will GGD embark on the journey of a production run of the North Coast Limited? And, may I be so bold as to ask when GGD will set its sights on a later Hiawatha Train, or cars to match the Milwaukee Road E7?
Would that indeed include nice looking, accurately decorated NYC Beauty Queens to reserve on the 2nd run?
When, may I ask sir, will GGD embark on the journey of a production run of the North Coast Limited? And, may I be so bold as to ask when GGD will set its sights on a later Hiawatha Train, or cars to match the Milwaukee Road E7?
Very nice. Did you ever think about making these proto,artwork,mockups in 2X2's or some other size and selling them? I have a perfect spot for one that is PRR! Tuscan, DGLE or both might even work.
Norm
Norm
Look past the CB&Q E's to the two different Armour Reefers. One steel and one wood? Excellent photo by the way!!
Jonathan, do you know the road numbers of the GN E7's that Andy Petersen is offering? I see #504 in the graphics Scott Mann posted. I was just wondering if the two GN units would be 504A-504B (as delivered), or if two different numbers were being made... 504A&B would have run as an A-A set until 1950, when the Empire Builder switched to the F3/F7 pool units and the E7's were split up, renumbered and re-distributed around the GN.
OK, why did the Q have those vents/decals by the headlights. And "Because the Q liked it!" is NOT an answer!
Why did the EB go with the F over the E units? Greater TE?
Why can't the Q have vents just because they liked them? Surely that was their excuse for stainless sides, when carbon steel was cheaper?
The Q used the vent decals to mimic the early Q streamliners that had actual vents. It was for stylistic reasons which went a long way towards branding of ht e "Zephyr" line. By the early 60's they started disappearing.
As to the reasoning for the style of numberboard, the road numbers are specific to the E's delivered with the early FT style boards, while also having the correct venting details.
The GN E7s are going to be 504 and 503 based on direction from Peterson Supply who funded that part of the project along with the SP&S 750.
As to the reasoning for the style of numberboard, the road numbers are specific to the E's delivered with the early FT style boards, while also having the correct venting details.
The GN E7s are going to be 504 and 503 based on direction from Peterson Supply who funded that part of the project along with the SP&S 750.
quote:Originally posted by Soo Nut:
Look past the CB&Q E's to the two different Armour Reefers. One steel and one wood? Excellent photo by the way!!
And between two PFE's, too. Interesting, I thought you "weren't allowed" to mix 'blood' and 'fruit juice' on our* layouts....
Best, SZ
*well, not mine, of course....
quote:Originally posted by Steinzeit:quote:Originally posted by Soo Nut:
Look past the CB&Q E's to the two different Armour Reefers. One steel and one wood? Excellent photo by the way!!
And between two PFE's, too. Interesting, I thought you "weren't allowed" to mix 'blood' and 'fruit juice' on our* layouts....
Best, SZ
*well, not mine, of course....
How else can one eat, drink AND be merry?
Cigar Band would be nice !
quote:
In all seriousness, for the unwashed who don't know a lot about the NYC, could you post a photo?
Regards,
GNNPNUT
Try these...
Beauty Queens: (Light gray, dark stripe, "high" waisted lightning stripe):
Repainted: (Dark gray, light stripe, low lightning stripe):
Both the 4001 and 4002 have the "small" number boards.
Note how the 4002 in the bottom photo has been substantially rebuilt into what most people refer to as "Phase II", yet it retains its original number boards. By the Cigar Band era, it will have lost the passenger pilot in favor of the F Unit style pilot.
quote:Originally posted by GG1 4877:
Note how the 4002 in the bottom photo has been substantially rebuilt into what most people refer to as "Phase II", yet it retains its original number boards. By the Cigar Band era, it will have lost the passenger pilot in favor of the F Unit style pilot.
For a PRR fan, you sure know a lot about the Central. (Keeop your enemies closer?
)BTW...Did you read the Classic Trains issue devoted to the GG1? Highly recommended.
This discussion of the details of these E7s is all well and good, but despite the suggestions of those who appear to be well connected with the management there is still no official evidence that 3rd Rail has any intention of actually producing the Beauty Queens. ? ? ? ? ?
Crank
Crank
quote:Originally posted by Eccentric Crank:
This discussion of the details of these E7s is all well and good, but despite the suggestions of those who appear to be well connected with the management there is still no official evidence that 3rd Rail has any intention of actually producing the Beauty Queens. ? ? ? ? ?
Crank
Patience ...... the current run is still working through some design issues. Get that production run out and other road names will appear. At least that's what I understand.
quote:Originally posted by CentralFan1976:quote:Originally posted by GG1 4877:
Note how the 4002 in the bottom photo has been substantially rebuilt into what most people refer to as "Phase II", yet it retains its original number boards. By the Cigar Band era, it will have lost the passenger pilot in favor of the F Unit style pilot.
For a PRR fan, you sure know a lot about the Central. (Keeop your enemies closer?
BTW...Did you read the Classic Trains issue devoted to the GG1? Highly recommended.
Simply a lot of research on the E7 in general. Very, very interesting history of development of the E7. The original production model of 1945 was much more experimental in nature than I ever had a grasp of and the production of E7s leading to the E8s was really a lot of trial and era. up until about 1947 or 1948.
Did the Beauty Queens ever head up freight consists?
Interesting color scheme.
Norm
Interesting color scheme.
Norm
quote:Originally posted by Norm:
Did the Beauty Queens ever head up freight consists?
Interesting color scheme.
Norm
I don't know about the Central, but after Amtrak started, the BN used some E7's in transfer service in Chicago for a brief time. I'm gathering it wasn't a success.
Rusty
All the "Beauty Queens" got repainted into the more common lightning stripe scheme prior to any type of freight assignments. Not sure how the later NYC and PC utilized former NYC E7's in non-passenger service, but most of the E7's were out of service by the early 70's anyway.
CB&Q utilized the E5 in freight service for several months in '67 ? before being traded in on SD40's. It was something like 5 units to pull 20 cars near Pueblo on grades.
CB&Q utilized the E5 in freight service for several months in '67 ? before being traded in on SD40's. It was something like 5 units to pull 20 cars near Pueblo on grades.
I ordered 4 Burlington E7A in 2-Rail for the second release. These better come with the black stripes on front. I hope there will be a future release with the large number boards on them. Maybe with simulated stainless steel sides too.
Are E5AB coming soon??? I hope so. I'll order them all. As long as they have black stripes, maintenance rails on the nose, simulated stainless steel body.
Is there a release date for the second release of the E7s??
Dan
I hope there will be a future release with the large number boards on them. Maybe with simulated stainless steel sides too.Are E5AB coming soon??? I hope so. I'll order them all.
As long as they have black stripes, maintenance rails on the nose, simulated stainless steel body.Is there a release date for the second release of the E7s??
Dan
Trainboy_4,
If you checked the photo of the "nose" artwork, posted above, you'll see that the nose strips & grills are indeed black. I have also furnished all the information on the "CB&Q special" grab irons & handrails which hopefully will be on all the CB&Q models.
Concerning CB&Q E5 models, since CB&Q was the ONLY railroad to roster the fluted stainless steel E5A & E5B units, I am not aware of any plans for Sunset/3rd Rail to offer these models in the future. The E5A is a "shovel nose" configuration, like the E3 and E6 units also.
If you checked the photo of the "nose" artwork, posted above, you'll see that the nose strips & grills are indeed black. I have also furnished all the information on the "CB&Q special" grab irons & handrails which hopefully will be on all the CB&Q models.
Concerning CB&Q E5 models, since CB&Q was the ONLY railroad to roster the fluted stainless steel E5A & E5B units, I am not aware of any plans for Sunset/3rd Rail to offer these models in the future. The E5A is a "shovel nose" configuration, like the E3 and E6 units also.
