The Kohs Big Boy is now approaching 7 years and the only thing that is done is the Tender Pilot Model.  The actual locomotive, from what I understand, is not even in production.  George has informed several people that anyone who has not made their second deposit has had their reservation cancelled. He is also saying that no deposits will be returned.  A friend of mine has had a deposit on the UP Big Boy contacted George to cancel his model because he needed the money for his son going to college.  George informed him that he already cancelled his model due to the lack that his was the only one of that version reserved.  He was not informed that his model was cancelled nor was his deposit returned.  I am only stating the above as a courtesy to anyone that has a deposit who may need to contact George.  I love George's models, but 7 years is a long time.  Please do not rake George over the coals on this forum.  That is not what it's meant to be.

George diSanti

Where the Tarheels rule!

Original Post

Taking reservation on a project started 4/3/02 and last update 6/1/19 and still not a sample model of the BB with no idea when finished models will be ready for shipment or even started. Odd that refunds are not being returned on a 17 ongoing  year project with no end in sight.

Who says "O" scalers  don't have patience. Meanwhile have some future ocean site property for sale in Arizona.

david1 posted:

Time for a lawsuit. My question is why would anybody ever deal with Kohs now or in the future? 


Very good question. he is doing this as in postal fraud and federal issues across  interstate lines. There are ways to get your refund back.

I would guest if a deposit was made by Credit Card the card company could take recourse for you.  If one got a lawyer what type of lawyer would you need?  Sad this project is turning out this way.  I was looking forward to future projects.  Maybe George diSanti has some advise since he made everyone aware of the what is going on.


nw2124 posted:

I would guest if a deposit was made by Credit Card the card company could take recourse for you.  If one got a lawyer what type of lawyer would you need?  Sad this project is turning out this way.  I was looking forward to future projects.  Maybe George diSanti has some advise since he made everyone aware of the what is going on.


ttis is noting new with him been going on for years, people just like to throw money away. Always looking for another fish to scam . ask him about the flat cars and cabooses.


Before you fine folks start to bash someone, maybe you should look into things a bit.

Copied from the Big Boy order form on the Kohs website:

Union Pacific 4884 class 'Big Boy' Order Form Before ordering please confirm availability with us directly. The price for all versions is $6,000USD (plus shipping), a $3,000USD nonrefundable deposit is required at the time of ordering to secure your reservation, this now includes a $1,500USD incremental payment previously specified at the outset of this project. The balance including shipping will be due prior to delivery.

This is copied from the project page and mentions the beginning of the reservation process:

10/28/14 - Good news........the production schedule for the remainder of this year and 2015 has been set........long story short, the reservation process for the Big Boy can now begin!

So Mr. Kohs has not had anyone's deposit for 7 years.

So sadly Mr. diSanti's friend has no case, and if he was really worried about sending his son to college he shouldn't have been blowing money on brass models.


Its only been a little under 5 years and really no projected delivery date and with the extended time frame I would doubt the 6k is a guaranteed final price. For most of the buyers at this level of investment 3k is not a big deal for most of us the term "non refundable should be a "red flag" like the market states " past performance is no guarantee for future investments" just saying.

mark s posted:

.......and Key lists a Big Boy project on their website !  Maybe George is working in a saturated Big Boy market !?      So, hold the Big Boys, and do a Rock Island 4-8-4 !!!!

I don't have figures to back up the accuracy, but I have read or heard at various sites on the web, that the 2 most imported locomotives are the Big Boy and Cab Forward. Whether these sources are referring to O scale, HO scale or all scales combined I'm not certain.

Apparently there is a faction of devotees with deep pockets, searching for the ultimate model, that support production of these models, that proven by the fact that they (importers) keep having them built.

Mark, You'll have to lure away some of those BB buyers, and note: I am NOT one of them.


Actually, Simon a product has to be delivered in a reasonable time frame or a refund is required by law to be returned. Second, some people who have reserved a BB did not cancel their reserved version but was cancelled be Kohs himself without informing them. Law I believe is that a deposit has to be returned in 30 Days if the company does not produce the item ordered or is not produced in a reasonable amount of time unless that law has changed.

Second - Key is not doing the BB as he can not find a builder to do it. Maybe has to do with rumors that he did not take possession of the full run of Cab Forwards? Maybe someone has more information on what has happened. This is what I am hearing from a close friend in Texas.

George diSanti

Where the Tar Heels rule!

I believe Key imported 75 cab forwards and there were a number of buyers who bought more than one of the available variants so for all practical purposes the market at that price range was about 50 +/- buyers. With the real BB up and running that market could increase even with higher pricing in the future, Division Point is over 4k for newest HO articulateds, based on the response to the Cab Forwards Key would be my choice for the ultimate Big Boy [not that I am interested in that kind of investment] just saying.

Its interesting to visit the Kohs website and read the posted updates on the BB project.

I can understand why folks, with the discretionary funds, pre-order Kohs items.  As they are built to order, and in relatively small quantities, they are very hard to find on the secondary market. 

To some degree, this is also true of 3rd Rail/Sunset as well.  Interestingly though, they don't require any down payments, although I realize their offerings are priced at about half or Kohs items, so I understand they are carrying less debt on a project than Kohs.


Formerly Historic Frederick County, Maryland.  Now close to Baltimore.  Modeling both the Reading and B&O Railroads.


Caleb 10/14/15 - 10/19/19, I'll miss you buddy!

Jim: I think you should take a look a the auction site to see all the 3rd rail locomotives for sale. There are more 3rd rail that any other company and then some. Yes there are some scorce items, but otherwise tons of it for sale!! 

Hibar: The Kohs would be a better buy on the BB. The Key cab forward was an inferior model even to the Kohs Challenger. The Key model was over price for the quality delivered. The key model didn't even have punched rivets, as Kohs models. Keys says his model was sold out, yet he keeps bringing cab forwards to the shows. (3 the last show). Lately Key has not mention the BB due to lack of builder per Gorge diSanti. He can't get enough orders for the F2 to FL9s, SD40-2, or even the GP38, GP38AC, GP38-2, GP40, and GP40-2s which is now put on the side bar.  The Key situation looks bleak to say the least.

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