Upgrading the MTH Southern Daylight 20-3029-1 to TMCC

I know there are hard core MTH fans on the site. There are also hard core Lionel fans too. I myself, am not partial to either. I like them both. They both have their qualities and faults. But this isn't going to be about putting one against the other. I live close to the only operating SP Daylight GS4 left in existence. I went for a short ride last December with the wife at Christmas time when the engine was all decorated up. I immediately was taken in by the absolute beauty of this engine. So, I started searching the -Bay and eventually found an MTH SP Daylight Proto 1 in Ohio. The cost of the engine wasn't bad...The shipping on the other hand was horrid. Close to $100 to ship to Oregon. So the seller automatically refunded my money without asking me. (No hard feelings) I did contact the seller and I was able to have him send it to my sister in Ohio who is only 3 hours away. She in turn, brought the engine to Florida (on the plane, in a suitcase) to me while I was visiting my folks for my Dad's 80th birthday. I in turn, hand carried the engine and tender onto the plane back to Oregon. These are the eBay pictures from the original posting. The engine is not perfect, its used. The 4449 is all but rubber off under the cab window in the first picture.

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I do not have any equipment to operate MTH equipment. After looking to see what MTH equipment was needed, I decided to upgrade the internals to the ERR DC Cruise Commander, Railsounds Lite for the SP Daylight, GRJ's Super-Chuffer and Chuff-Generator. I already have the TMCC system to operate my Chessie Steam Special. So doing this mod seem like a no brainer to me. If any one is wanting some of the old Proto 1 components let me know. The tender will be gutted, and the engine will retain the 5v constant voltage lighting board in order for the number boards, Class lights, and MARS light to work.

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I have removed the original Proto 1 smoke unit and I'm going to install a generic MTH smoke unit with a single 20 ohm smoke element as recommended for the Super-Chuffer. I would like to be able to take the original smoke unit, modify it, and make this engine have a smoking whistle. My only problem is finding out if/where I can pick off voltage to activate the smoke unit from the Railsounds board.

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This is what's going in its place. I have already swapped out the funnels and replaced the wicks.

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I may have to retain the 4 pin tether and modify it so I will be able to connect the Aux Tender. When I bought the Aux Tender, the tether didn't come with it and it has been discontinued. Hopefully, I can make this work. If anyone has a flat 4 pin tether and they're willing to part with it, please let me know.

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Here's the tender internals. These will be removed to make room for the DC Cruise Commander and Railsound systems. To my knowledge all of the MTH Proto 1 electronics work. I was told that the battery needed to be replaced.

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So this is where I am currently. The ERR stuff should be here today. The new 10 pin MTH tether and socket will be here next week. I have the Chuff-Generator Mounted to the Pittman motor. I still have to measure the 1 mm (or .040) distance and solder the sensor in. The green wire will be for the Ground Lights, but that will come much later. I used Leoco plugs for the Chuff Generator board to help with removal in the future. I'm going to do the same to the Super-Chuffer.

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There may be some cosmetic mods to the engine, but I'm fairly pleased with this design. Any mods will be after the prototype engine.

Until next time.

 

 

 

Chris

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Original Post

It looks like it has the BCR, so a replacement battery not needed, just to sit on the track for 30sec to charge and then it's good to go.  As for running as it came, no MTH equipment was needed as PS-1 was just a fancy conventional locomotive (Which I love running with my Legacy/TMCC handhelds.).  As for the smoke unit, the original would work just fine for ERR setups.

 

As for wanting the boards, I have several extras, so I don't need them, but I'd gladly take that BCR off of your hands.

Jayhawk500 posted:

Thanks for the input gentlemen. As I said above, if I can tap into the Railsounds board for the whistle I'll use the Proto 1 smoke unit to make some smoke when I make it whistle.

No place to tap into the RS boards to get a logic output for the whistle.  However, the ERR Sound Converter can be easily hacked to provide a logic output for the whistle, it reads the serial data and has uP outputs for the whistle and bell activation.

gunrunnerjohn posted:
Jayhawk500 posted:

Thanks for the input gentlemen. As I said above, if I can tap into the Railsounds board for the whistle I'll use the Proto 1 smoke unit to make some smoke when I make it whistle.

No place to tap into the RS boards to get a logic output for the whistle.  However, the ERR Sound Converter can be easily hacked to provide a logic output for the whistle, it reads the serial data and has uP outputs for the whistle and bell activation.

Thanks for the info John. I'll look into it. By the way, did you get my email a while back? Just curious.

I just emailed Ken at ERR. He's out for the next 2 weeks. There's nothing on the sound converter on ERR website. You have anything? 

Chris

Here's a quick update. I have the Super-chuffer and Chuff-generator installed and wired. Wires are run a neatly as possible in the hopes that some day of adding a small fan driven smoke unit for a smoking whistle. Next I need to get the boiler parts married up.

The Super-Chuffer is tucked partially under the smoke unit. The constant voltage lighting board remains since it drives the MARS light, the classification lights and side number boards. The headlight, I haven't decided to leave it as it is or add it to the Super-Chuffer.

GRJ, I know your diagram calls for an LED for the headlight. Will the S-C drive a 6 volt bulb? The reason I ask is, there are 2 bulbs in the headlight, one for the headlight itself and one for the front number boards. The headlights go to the Blue plug, MARS to the White plug and the class lights to the Yellow plug. Side number boards to the Brown plug behind the yellow one. The cab light goes to the S-C. The brown plug on the back half of the board in the second photo is the former cab light plug.

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The bottom half of the boiler with side boards is on. Now I have to figure out how to connect the chassis and boiler.

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Until next time...

 

Chris

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The S-C will not drive incandescent bulbs, it's limited to one standard 20ma LED.  The only way to drive bulbs as you describe is to add a transistor or FET buffer to the headlight output.  This is how I drive the incandescent cab lights with the S-C, the bulbs go to track power and I use 12V bulbs.

GND is frame ground

HL is the headlight output from the S-C

Output is switched to ground when headlight is on

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Janitor John posted:

Greetings Jayhawk!  Nice to see another fellow Oregonian around these parts.  Did you happen to catch the 4449 on its trip to Bend last summer?

No, didn't know anything about it until recently. At some point I'll be joining the Heritage Rail Museum So I can get updates and possibly do an excursion some day.

Chris

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The S-C will not drive incandescent bulbs, it's limited to one standard 20ma LED.  The only way to drive bulbs as you describe is to add a transistor or FET buffer to the headlight output.  This is how I drive the incandescent cab lights with the S-C, the bulbs go to track power and I use 12V bulbs.

GND is frame ground

HL is the headlight output from the S-C

Output is switched to ground when headlight is on

Thanks for the info John. I know it seems simple, but I'll just use what I got currently. Thanks for the time and info again.

 

Chris

Just a quick update on my progress with my Daylight upgrade. After attempting to put the boiler and chassis together I realized that in order to disassemble this engine again I needed a better mouse trap. I re-used the PCB for the smoke and constant voltage lighting. I attached the lighting wires to this as it was before. You can also see I added a 4 pin plug so I can disconnect the boiler and chassis if I need to.

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Now, on the chassis side, the 10 pin plug doesn't have areas to solder the contact springs to the board. So I soldered the wire to the spring, I had to scrape the coating on the board, and the epoxied the springs in the position they would have been with the original plug board. I also had to add a couple of ABS washers to the under side of the plug board to position the plug in the hole at the back of the engine. I added the washers after I took the photos. I have the element for the smoke unit connected to the switch on the chassis, so when the boss gets upset about all the smoke, I can shut it off. I still have to calibrate the Chuff-Generator.

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I've triple checked all the wiring for the boiler and chassis. I did find out that the 90 deg plug on the MTH 10 pin tethers will not work with this engine. I need to use a straight one. So now I have to order that.

Now It's on to the tender.

Until next time.....

Chris

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Jayhawk500 posted:
I've triple checked all the wiring for the boiler and chassis. I did find out that the 90 deg plug on the MTH 10 pin tethers will not work with this engine. I need to use a straight one. So now I have to order that.

Now It's on to the tender.

Until next time.....

Be aware that the wire colors and some of the pinout of the straight and 90 deg tethers are not the same.

Trainlover9943 posted:

Any new updates? Be curious if you added the whistle smoke feature. 

No new updates.  I still need to order a 10 pin straight tether. As of right now, adding a second smoke unit is possible, but I need to find a small one to fit in the space provided. But to answer your question, not right now.

Chris

gunrunnerjohn posted:
Jayhawk500 posted:
I've triple checked all the wiring for the boiler and chassis. I did find out that the 90 deg plug on the MTH 10 pin tethers will not work with this engine. I need to use a straight one. So now I have to order that.

Now It's on to the tender.

Until next time.....

Be aware that the wire colors and some of the pinout of the straight and 90 deg tethers are not the same.

Thanks for the heads up on that John. I have seen that comment in a few other threads. I may have to rewire the engines receptacle. I still cant get over what MTH wants for shipping.....

Chris

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Fred Brenek


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