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@steam posted:

I think the idea of an "inside job" is kind of far fetched but this kind of caught my eye.  Telling consumers a reason why they aren't labeling their box could line up with a plan to swindle it into their own vehicle.  If they weren't really talking to UPS on the phone, they could basically just run the cards on their own "credit card machine", and everything all of a sudden disappears.

Once again I think the whole idea is pretty far fetched but you never know!  Perhaps the fairgrounds has surveillance video?

Then again, if traindiesel got a refund, then it was a part of UPS business.  Or maybe they know about the whole scam! It can really make you brainstorm here.

The thing is that everything was going fine until my package reached a California hub. Then for no reason it was given an alternate tracking number and sent to somewhere in Riverside, Ca. and the “proof of delivery” showed it was received by “Personnel”.  And no one at UPS or the UPS store in York could tell me what that meant, who it was or why it happened at all!

@42trainman posted:

To those calling for the FBI, Postal Inspectors and Feds in general. Now you are in my area, and it's not happening.  Every case of fraud or mail theft or any of the circumstances these guys work is generally in the multi-millions of dollars.   The US prosecutors office would never accept a case against UPS or (if individuals were found to be involved) for the value of a few dozen lost shipments of trains.  Prosecutions are based on totality of the circumstances and loss amounts.   Maybe we have 30/40,000 dollars of lost trains?   What if it's 100,000 dollars?  Not even remotely in the area of a prosecution.   If there cannot be a prosecution at the end, there will be no federal investigation.  Forget the one-off story you heard from your great uncle, or your neighbor or what you saw on TV.  It just does not work that way in general.   Be glad too, there aren't enough feds and prosecutors at that level to even handle the 40 million dollar scams against the elderly cases the fraud agents work!  Anyway, not making a stir, just sharing that the fed angle isn't practical or realistic.   Work it out with UPS.  I really hope ya'll get your trains!

Criminal enterprises and scams are now often about pulling off small thefts of lots of individual people. These groups could be working inside UPS or their subcontractors and/or shipping partners to pull this stuff off on a larger scale. You and I don’t know how big or small this is, but by reporting it, the folks that are actually good at solving crime can piece it together. For that reason alone, I would report it.

Last edited by rplst8
@Traindiesel posted:

The thing is that everything was going fine until my package reached a California hub. Then for no reason it was given an alternate tracking number and sent to somewhere in Riverside, Ca. and the “proof of delivery” showed it was received by “Personnel”.  And no one at UPS or the UPS store in York could tell me what that meant, who it was or why it happened at all!

Brian has reiterated 3 times that everything was fine until the shipment reached California. There is no evidence that the UPS folks in PA had anything to do with it. In my opinion since it is multiple packages for all different addresses it had to be some sort of an inside job in California. Just saying that makes it sound like something out of Mission Impossible but I can tell you as someone who works for the USPS that it is very possible because all it takes is one or two dishonest employees. Someone had to have had access to the UPS tracking system to change it to make it say it was received by "personnel". Believe it or not at the USPS this is very rare but I have seen it a few times over the years. People will risk throwing away their career at one of the best paying unskilled labor jobs in the country just to make a few quick dishonest dollars. What I wonder is if the perps who took these packages knew what the packages contained before they took them? We will probably never know.

@rplst8 posted:

Criminal enterprises and scams are now often about pulling off small thefts of lots of individual people. These groups could be working inside UPS or their subcontractors and/or shipping partners to pull this stuff off on a larger scale.

How does one know if this is a criminal act, or just someone not doing their job??  The O.P.s stuff could be sitting in a dark corner of the warehouse or something.

In my experience watching the tracking over the years. I know which hubs my packages are "supposed" to go to.

When they don't.  The package is either really late, damaged, or doesn't arrive at all. In one experience my package kept ending up 1 suburb 10 minutes north of where I live.

That post office would just send it back to the main hub and the main hub sent it back out to them the next day.

After I saw it bounce back and forth I contacted the PO in the other town and made arrangements to pick it up. The address on the package had no errors.

In another instance. My unions vacation savings checks all disappeared when they were mailed out.  Millions of dollars worth.

After an extra week the unions cancelled them and sent out new ones. The originals magically appeared in the mailbox the day after I received my replacement.

Last edited by RickO
@RickO posted:

How does one know if this is a criminal act, or just someone not doing their job??  The O.P.s stuff could be sitting in a dark corner of the warehouse or something.

If that were the case why would UPS tell people the packages were labeled fraudulent and destroyed? Why were the packages given alternate tracking numbers? Why were packages marked delivered to "personnel."? Remember this isn't just the O.P. but everyone who shipped from York. This wasn't just one person making an honest mistake and losing one package. In my opinion something criminal went on here.

@Hudson J1e posted:

If that were the case why would UPS tell people the packages were labeled fraudulent and destroyed? Why were the packages given alternate tracking numbers? Why were packages marked delivered to "personnel."? Remember this isn't just the O.P. but everyone who shipped from York. This wasn't just one person making an honest mistake and losing one package. In my opinion something criminal went on here.

Good point. It really sounds like this should be on the York UPS vendor ,since they are the common denominator on all of the shipments.

@Hudson J1e posted:

If that were the case why would UPS tell people the packages were labeled fraudulent and destroyed? Why were the packages given alternate tracking numbers? Why were packages marked delivered to "personnel."? Remember this isn't just the O.P. but everyone who shipped from York. This wasn't just one person making an honest mistake and losing one package. In my opinion something criminal went on here.

Yeah I don't get it. There are obviously a bunch of facts here that make no sense other than some fraudulent act. Some people just like to argue I guess rather that offer helpful advice.

Even in the best case, where UPS screwed up and doesn't make the customer whole, that's theft IMHO. At a minimum, it's a tortious act and a liability they should be worried about, especially if the customer base is more than one person.

@RickO posted:

Good point. It really sounds like this should be on the York UPS vendor ,since they are the common denominator on all of the shipments.

From what Brian says it seems the York UPS vendor didn't do anything wrong. If true I hope they do not have to bear the full responsibility for this fiasco but you might be right. It might all come down on them.

@rplst8 I agree. UPS needs to make everyone whole who was effected by this. It's horrible that they lost out on their trains but at the very least they should not be out any money.

Last edited by Hudson J1e

Brian

OUCH that hurts, For what its worth, I had a similar experience., A few years back I shipped a Williams Brass Challenger to Alex Mallie for an ERR upgrade. WELL, Alex got the package however the Challenger was totally destroyed and seemed that the UPS team played soccer with the package. I filed a claim with the sending UPS store and did get my reimbursements. Luckily, I insured it form its value. Good Luck with and hope you get reimbursed.

Steve

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