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Hi all the Fastrack turnouts (remote) come with a cheesy feeling controller. Can a generic toggle switch be substituted? Would a simple SPDT switchwork with just the two leads that control the turnout direction? What about the switch illumination which I believe the other two wire leads are for?

 

thanks

 

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ChooChoo1972 posted:

Can a generic toggle switch be substituted? Would a simple SPDT switchwork with just the two leads that control the turnout direction?

 SPDT center off momentary...  (on)-off-(on).

2 wires if you use common ground, 3 wires(including the black) for simple straight home-run connection.

ChooChoo1972 posted:

What about the switch illumination which I believe the other two wire leads are for?

The black is common, so again if you use common ground you can build indicator lights with LEDs using just the one RSC wire. It does take the "simple" out of your initial question, though.

Last edited by ADCX Rob

The black wire is common for the switch pole and the red and green are the throws. The yellow wire is +5 vdc for green and -5 vdc for red. The black is again common for the yellow wire. You will need resistors and diodes as shown below on the Lionel controller for the LEDs, red and green.

FastrackSwitchController

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  • FastrackSwitchController

There are three connection terminals on a SPDT center off momentary  (on)-off-(on) switch - here are the connections on the bottom of a FasTrack Remote switch:

"GND" connects to the center common terminal
"THRU" & "OUT" connect to the other two respectively.

FasTrack Bottom

The "RSC LIGHTS" connection on the bottom of the switch is left unconnected.

For direction indication, the RSC line can be used in connection with the controller circuit diagram posted earlier if you want to make your own, but then you are back up to the bulk(and then some) of the original cheesy controller.

 

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  • FasTrack Bottom

  You could also use two momentary buttons instead of a 2 pos. momentary toggle. 

I haven't used a FT controller, but I do like how they look; it's the trademark L. 

 Is your comment a comparison to the old ones or based on FT experience alone? I find the old brown ones have a cheaper look and feel too. But over time, I'll admit, they do seem just as reliable as the older black ones despite my original perception being they wouldn't be.

Well that would be tactile, or sound...probably. And it would have to be there whenever you wanted it. So if sound, then some way to poll it like pushing a button to cause one of two tones to sound. Tactile could be position or heat. Position seems more immediate to recent change, but heat is easier...two bulbs, dimly lit, enough heat to feel. Something like that. Just throwing out some maybe not great ideas but enough to get the thinking going.

There is another simple one, a toggle that’s not momentary. The switching of the toggle would just put out a momentary pulse instead of a constant connection to black wire. But wait, doesn’t the Fastrack circuit ignore the remote toggle once the switch is thrown? As long as the limit switches are doing their job? Then why does the toggle have to be momentary? The obvious fault with this is that there is no feedback from the Fastrack switch...ie, if the switch doesn’t throw, one would not know.

Anyway some ideas...

I have worked with these switches for a PLC project and yes you do only want to use a momentary toggle switch. Under normal conditions, once the switch is thrown and reaches the limit switch, the motor shuts off. If something jams the switch, then the motor will be on and probably will burn out.

Holding either Through or Turnout on would also prevent the non-derail feature from working. There are plenty of momentary toggle switches out there to use which would work without having and issues.

In my case, I used SPDT relays to control the switch positions. Since relays are a constant on condition, I used one relay to connect the others to the track common. I set my three relays to what I want as far as the switches, and the fourth relay closes for 1 second to enable the switch throw.

Attached also is the wires that control the anti-derail feature. If you pull the blue and green wire as indicated, it will disable this feature.

Mike

 

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I think the feedback would not work well as audio, and it would probably be annoying as well.  I'd be looking at some type of tactile feedback.  Maybe something as simple as a small solenoid that pushes up a little pin next to the switch when it's in the "out" position and pulls it back when it's in the "thru" position.   Since you have the LED lead from the Fastrack switch that indicates the switch true position, that would let you know the position change from any source, non-derailing, manual change, or the toggle switch change.

You could, but do you really want a buzzer running constantly when the switch is in one of the positions?  How about five or six buzzers all running?

FWIW, that article was showing a microprocessor generating a PWM audio signal to the speaker, for a simpler circuit, you'd need an actual sounder that generates sound just from a DC voltage.  Of course, you still need the DC power as well.

Gents, I have access to small piezo electrical buzzers that are quite lod at 3v to 6v. I assume (egads...) that I could hook one lead of the buzzer to the yellow wire, the other lead of the buzzer to a momentary SPST switch and the other side of that switch to the black (grnd) wire. I think the buzzer would sound when the momentary SPST button is pressed to "poll" the turnout. However I would only want it to sound when the voltage is pulled in one direction (really matters not which way as long as they all worked the same). How can I accomplish this? Would a diode between the yellow wire and the buzzer work?

I also have a few more questions about hooking up the turnouts. One is about connecting the wires from the turnout (grn, rd, and blk) to the mon-off-mon switch. Can I use solid core 4 conductor (only 3 wires used) phone cable for this? I know it is only 24 aug but is that enough? If so it would make wiring pretty easy.

thanks guys

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I like the idea of a small SPDT center off toggle and a 2-pin bi-color LED. That will substitute for the control and give you the switch position indication.  Just add a resistor around 220 ohms in series with the LED.  The LED connects to the RSC Lights on the switch to ground.

I'm late to the party on this thread but it's in line with what I'm working on now. I want to make an "old fashioned" control panel for my layout & use bi-color LED's as switch indicators along with mini-switches to operate the turnouts. If I wire the switch as Rob suggests, do I connect the led feed to the RSC connection on the bottom of the turnout to put an indicator light at the turnout, and run another wire back to the control panel for a second indicator? Can I accomplish the same thing using a DPDT switch & a 3-pin LED at the control panel?

Just jumping into this thread for the first time...

Regarding alternative toggle switch for F/T turnouts that would permit toggle position as an indicator of routing (for our friends who are sight-challenged, et al)...   The other day I was going through a box of old (we're talking 60+ years ago) stuff and came upon some Walthers E201 toggle switches.  How many of you remember those???   Well, they had multiple uses for turnout control, panel indicator lights, track signals, etc., etc..

E201 toggle  

But, pertinent to this discussion, they had a set of momentary contacts that could be used for a twin coil switch machine but were open circuit at the extremes of the toggle throw.  Therefore, you could simply glance (or touch)  the toggle position and know the routing of your turnout/track switch.

They're no longer made....VERY complicated assembly, and certainly old tech in comparison to today's more sophisticated electronics.  Nonetheless, they hearken back to a day when they were innovative and rather fancy for the model railroader.

Now they show up from time-to-time on the internet auctions.....like d'Bay.   Reasonably priced, too, since they're, as I said, 'old tech'........for us old pharts!

Seriously, though.....others remember the E201's????

KD

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Last edited by dkdkrd

With non-derailing switches, you need to take feedback from the switch to actually know what position it's in.  That being the case, for Fastrack switches, the correct way to do this is with a spring loaded SPDT/center-off switch and a bi-color 2-pin LED.  That and a resistor are all you need to use the Fastrack switch position feedback for position indication and to control it remotely from your control panel.

cjack posted:

I like the idea of the bipolar led. That’s great with the +\- 5 vdc RSC yellow wire.

 

That's what I did for my control panel, and I really like it. The mini-toggle switches for the turnouts are mounted on the bottom left of the panel, and numbered to correspond to the turnouts. The bipolar LED's are mounted at the turnout panel locations. I mounted the track-block ON/OFF toggle switches at the tracks, and was afraid that mounting the turnout toggle switches at that location would clutter the panel. And yes, the toggle switches for the turnouts are Momentary-ON - OFF  Momentary ON. Note that I have seven LED's left to install, and six are installed on the layout and readily visible from the control station. Depending on the turnout location, some have LED's both at the turnout on the layout, and on the control panel.

Control Panel Lit up med IMG_2778

Alex

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  • Control Panel Lit up med IMG_2778
Last edited by Ingeniero No1

Guns,

  Ok I get you, because I use my lighted/numbered Lionel Controllers by each Switch on the layout, and control my FTCC Switches with my Legacy Cab2, I no longer have a control panel of any kind.  I see the use for them if you use a control panel.

Thank God for low voltage FTCC Switches that are completely remote controlled, they eliminate a lot of older technology, like Control Panels and Switch Wiring.

PCRR/Dave

 

 

 The other day I was going through a box of old (we're talking 60+ years ago) stuff and came upon some Walthers E201 toggle switches.  How many of you remember those??? 

I have (or had) a few of those Walthers switches, NOS in their boxes. I cleaned them out of a parts drawer into a train show "treasure box". I am not certain whether somebody purchased them.

As a new subscriber, I finally found an answer on this thread for what I want to do on my new layout. Gunrunnerjohn mentioned that a SPDT switch along with a BI-Color 2pin LED would replace the black remote. So here’s my questions:

1) What value resistor needs to be used? I’ve looked on eBay and they offer 220 ohm resistors in ¼ watt, ½ watt, 1 and 2 watt, etc. configurations. What’s best to use for this application?

2) Where do you attach the resistor to the LED and the toggle switch so that you get the correct color corresponding to the position of the turnout? I’m an electronics dummy so I need a simple explanation, please. 

3) Where do you find those $0.58 mini switches? The link in the post doesn’t show anything. I have found some at another website for $1.79, but that’s the cheapest I’ve been able to locate. 

4) Could you draw a layman’s diagram of exactly how to wire this up at the switch?

You folks are a treasure trove of useful information! Thanks for any help you can provide. 

1/4W resistors are plenty for LED applications.

The indicator lead that comes from the Fastrack switch is bipolar, so you just put the resistor in series with one lead of the LED and connect that combination across the indicator lead and ground.  If the colors are reversed, reverse the two leads to the LED/resistor combo.

Here's switches at 59 cents each, close as I can come.

5 x Mini Momentary (On)Off(On) Toggle Switch Car Dash Dashboard Boat SPDT, eBay: 332818847338, $2.95 for five shipped.

Thanks Gunrunnerjohn! Correct me if I’m wrong: I can solder one end of the resistor to one leg of the LED, and then the other end of the resistor to the yellow wire from the switch; then connect the other LED leg to the ground (center) terminal of the switch? I want to make sure I do this right so I don’t fry anything sensitive. Also, is there an “in” and “out” on the resistor or can it be connected either direction?

Hi Gunrunnerjohn, I’ve started wiring my switches according to the previous directions you gave me. But I’m having problems. Accessory power is working fine. But the wiring for the remote momentary switch is giving me fits. On first try, I soldered a resistor to one leg of the LED and the other end to the yellow wire. I connected the green and red wires to the outer posts of the SPDT switch, and wired the black wire and the other leg of the LED to the center post of the SPDT. Nothing worked. No lit LED, no movement of the frog, nothing. And the lantern on the turnout didn’t light up either. I checked continuity of the momentary switch and found that power goes to the center post and the outer posts get the thru and turn wires. So then I tried switching the red wire to the center post and the yellow wire to an outer post, keeping the LED and resistor on the center post, and the other leg of the LED to the black wire. Still nothing. But when I touched the resistor hooked to the red wire on the center rail of the turnout, the LED came on green, but I was not able to move the frog via the momentary switch. Also, a funny smell emanated from the momentary switch if I held the wire on the center rail for more than 30 seconds.  I took the metal plate off the bottom of the turnout to see if I could find a continuity problem there with a test meter, but it’s too complicated for my brain.  But I did find there was continuity between the Aux in and the remote red wire. That’s why I put the red wire on the center post of the momentary switch. Any ideas on what I’m doing wrong and how to correct it? It just seems like power is not getting across from the transformer to the remote. Your expertise (or anyone else’s) would be much appreciated. Thanks. 

Yes, I am using momentary switches with center off. How many LEDs are being used in the diagram? I’m only using one green/red LED per switch, thinking the it will be green on thru and red on turn. The diagram looks like there are four LEDs and four resistors all connected to the yellow wire. I’m not an electrical genius, so could you provide a little explanation of the diagram in layman’s terms for me. Sorry to be a pain, but I’m just trying to get thru the learning curve. Thanks!

Ok. That makes more sense. So, what wire gets attached to the center post of the switch? And if I’m using one bi-colored LED (green/red) do I need a resistor on both legs? Does the anode leg get attached to the yellow wire and the cathode leg to the black wire? I’m gonna get this thru my thick skull somehow! 🥴

Thanks for your replies. So if I’m reading this right, the red and green wires attach to the outer posts of the momentary switch, the black wire attaches to the center post of the momentary switch, and the yellow wire only attaches to the bi-color LED with a resistor. I’m assuming the resistor goes on the anode (long) leg of the LED and then to the yellow wire, and the chathode (short) leg gets attached to the center post with the black wire. With or without a resistor? Is that correct? Thanks for your patience in walking me thru this. 

So ... I finally got this setup to work. But only on track power. If I take out the jumper and connect to aux in and aux gnd under the switch, it does nothing. The lantern on the switch doesn’t light up, the momentary toggle switch doesn’t work, and the LED doesn’t light up. And when I try to apply track power to the rest of the layout, the voltmeter on the MTH Z-4000 reads 1.6 volts and starts to buzz if I move the lever forward. And the voltage will not increase when I move the lever. But on track power it all works perfectly. What am I doing wrong?

I’m not familiar with the Z-4000. Are the connections for the fixed and variable voltage well marked as to the U terminals which you would want to connect to the outside rails and the aux gnd? And the A terminals which will go to the center rail and the aux in? One can assume that the transformer has variable voltage with the common connection to the U terminal and the fixed voltage common to the same U point inside the transformer.

Actually I don’t think you need aux gnd wiring for FasTrack switches since the current is so small, having a return path for the power in is not significant. I think the aux gnd is the same connection as the outside rails on the switch. But that does point out that it’s imperative that the power to aux in comes from the A terminal of the transformer.

The connections are clearly marked on the back of the transformer. The commons all have black screw connectors and the hots all have red screw connectors. On the back of the Z-4000 there are four outputs, not unlike the Lionel ZW transformer. The two outer sets are variable voltage run by the levers. The inner two sets are 14V and 10V constant sources. As for needing aux wiring, I think you’re right. I hooked up my MTH DCS Explorer and it provides constant 18V to the track. The engine is run via an app on my iPhone. So I think I can just replace the black Lionel remote with the setup we’ve been discussing here and everything should work fine. With the app, I can stop and start the engine and power is maintained to the track no matter what the engine is doing. 

michaelblock posted:

I don't understand why CJACK on 1/13/2019 needs diodes and resistors for LED's while GunrunnerJohn just needs a resistor.  Is it because GunrunnerJohn is using a bi-color 2-pin LED?

I posted a schematic of what Lionel uses in their controllers. And yes, if you use a bi-color 2 pin LED, you just need a resistor to limit the current...you do not need diodes to steer the current to the proper color LED.

cjack posted:
michaelblock posted:

I don't understand why CJACK on 1/13/2019 needs diodes and resistors for LED's while GunrunnerJohn just needs a resistor.  Is it because GunrunnerJohn is using a bi-color 2-pin LED?

I posted a schematic of what Lionel uses in their controllers. And yes, if you use a bi-color 2 pin LED, you just need a resistor to limit the current...you do not need diodes to steer the current to the proper color LED.

Like cjack says, he simply posted what Lionel does in their controller.

ft controller

The 2-terminal bi-color LED is simply a packaging option that does not suit all applications.  Sometimes you want 2 separate points of light.  Consider a red-green color-blind individual who would see only an illuminated indicator irrespective if red or green were on!  

In other words Lionel could have wired the 2 LEDs of their FT controller like a bi-color LED but using separate LEDs so there are 2 points of light.  Then they could have used just 1 resistor and eliminated the 2 diodes.

If you dig deeper, there are reasons to use the Lionel approach but devolves into arcane technical mumbo jumbo.  Plus, these are penny (or less) components...so the cost penalty was a few cents.

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Last edited by stan2004

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