Video on how to modify front drivers on a 2-6-6-2...or other Articulated

COOL! Thanks for that great video! 

Actually, I doubt that would void the warranty.  FWIW, I have the Legacy C&O USRA #875 Mallet, and mine came with the drivers staggered 90 degrees out of the box.  I think the positions of the drivers are the "luck of the draw", it's hard for me to believe they worry about that when assembling them.  Also, the fine position would also be dependent on the position of the drive shaft linkage when the worm is installed in the gearbox, so it's quite possible for many of them to have other than a 90 degree increment in the driver positions relative to the other engine.

Some examples of the "other than 90 degree stagger".

Lionel Legacy Y6b

MTH Premier Challenger

I have had the Challenger apart, but I didn't crack the worm gear box.  The Y6b came that way from the factory.

I am trying to figure out why he had to remove the cab screws. I would thought that adjustment could be made with out doing that because of the articulation. But its been awhile since my last ps2 upgrade so not sure

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Actually, I doubt that would void the warranty.  FWIW, I have the Legacy C&O USRA #875 Mallet, and mine came with the drivers staggered 90 degrees out of the box.  I think the positions of the drivers are the "luck of the draw", it's hard for me to believe they worry about that when assembling them.  Also, the fine position would also be dependent on the position of the drive shaft linkage when the worm is installed in the gearbox, so it's quite possible for many of them to have other than a 90 degree increment in the driver positions relative to the other engine.

Some exam

 

I have had the Challenger apart, but I didn't crack the work gear box.  The Y6b came that way from the factory.

My thoughts exactly John, it is our luck of the draw on how they get assembled.

A little confused... the 2-6-6-2s are compound engines, the rear cylinders feed the exhausted steam to the front cylinders then out the stack. How would this make any alteration to the sound (if it were even possible for the sound file to account for the out of sync drivers)? Should be 4 chuffs/ rev like a regular steam engine. 

Simple articulateds (4 independent cylinders, Challenger, BB, etc...) would drift in and out, but I dont know if the sound file has the ability to adjust. GRJ probably knows if there's a switch or hall sensor on both sets of drivers...

For scale Lionel or MTH steamers, the drivers are locked in whatever position they're assembled in as there is a inflexible gear train and one motor powering both sets of drivers. 

Talking about prototypes, Mallet locomotives have a "simpleing valve" that starts them out in simple mode.  I know the Legacy Y6b starts out with the articulated sounds and you can hear it shift into 4 chuffs at a certain speed just like the prototype would do.  I would think most Mallet locomotives would have to similarly start out in simple mode just to get moving as that's where maximum tractive effort would usually be called for.  That being the case, even the Mallet would have the articulated sounds at startup.

From the Catskill Archive Website, the simpleing value appears to indeed be a standard feature for the Mallet style locomotives.

In order to enable the locomotive to develop full power at starting, it is necessary to provide means for admitting steam direct from the boiler to the low-pressure cylinders. In the Baldwin engine, a small pipe is run from a starting valve in the cab, to the receiver pipe connecting the high and low-pressure cylinders. By opening the starting valve, steam will pass direct from the boiler to the receiver pipe and thence to the low-pressure cylinders, and the locomotive will develop a tractive force up to the limit of its adhesion. This device is recommended because of its simplicity and reliability in service.

I love how this topic gets us to learn about engineering of steam engines...

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 From the Catskill Archive Website, the simpleing value appears to indeed be a standard feature for the Mallet style locomotives.

John,
That is correct, but, one must take into account that Baldwin pretty much gave up on the Mallet type and their way of doing things limited the operation of the locomotive.
A better representation of the way the mallet works is the ALCO version, also found on the Catskill site. This will be the way the N&W and C&O (and others) articulateds worked.

As for the OP assertion that should be this way or that, he couldn't be more wrong. The two engines operated independently from each other and their drivers/rods could be seen in any position in relation to each other. The only reason for doing what he did is entirely aesthetic depending on the individual's taste.

Boilermaker1 posted:

A little confused... the 2-6-6-2s are compound engines, the rear cylinders feed the exhausted steam to the front cylinders then out the stack. How would this make any alteration to the sound (if it were even possible for the sound file to account for the out of sync drivers)? Should be 4 chuffs/ rev like a regular steam engine. 

Simple articulateds (4 independent cylinders, Challenger, BB, etc...) would drift in and out, but I dont know if the sound file has the ability to adjust. GRJ probably knows if there's a switch or hall sensor on both sets of drivers...

Yep - still true. I made this point on another thread yesterday. I imagine that it will have to be made again.

And the "drifting in and out" is perceptible only at low speeds. Still.

Big Jim posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 From the Catskill Archive Website, the simpleing value appears to indeed be a standard feature for the Mallet style locomotives.

John,
That is correct, but, one must take into account that Baldwin pretty much gave up on the Mallet type and their way of doing things limited the operation of the locomotive.
A better representation of the way the mallet works is the ALCO version, also found on the Catskill site. This will be the way the N&W and C&O (and others) articulateds worked.

Great link, that really went into some detail.  I love it when a thread expands the knowledge base.

As for the OP assertion that should be this way or that, he couldn't be more wrong. The two engines operated independently from each other and their drivers/rods could be seen in any position in relation to each other. The only reason for doing what he did is entirely aesthetic depending on the individual's taste.

Yep, as I illustrated, even the models have them all over the place. If you ever take them apart, even if you don't take the worm out, you only have a 1:4 chance of getting them aligned again unless you go out of your way to make sure they're aligned.  If you take the worm out for any reason, you have an infinite number of possibilities as the wheels and driveshaft can have any orientation.

Both interesting and informative. Question is, is all the articulated locomotives looking to be luck of the draw during assembly? That is sort of what it is looking like to me(mostly synced or lined up) as it appears. If its not luck of the draw, than why is it occurring as such?

Berkshire President posted:

Note also:  The sound is still "in sync" at low speed.

Could it be changed to backstreet boys?

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Both interesting and informative. Question is, is all the articulated locomotives looking to be luck of the draw during assembly? That is sort of what it is looking like to me(mostly synced or lined up) as it appears. If its not luck of the draw, than why is it occurring as such?

The makers could be going to the trouble to line them up, but frankly I don't see the need.  Like I said, I see them right out of the box with pretty random distribution of the alignment.  Maybe, for whatever reason, the VL Challenger is lining them up to justify the lack of the articulated sound setup, hard to say until a bunch of them are in the hands of consumers.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Both interesting and informative. Question is, is all the articulated locomotives looking to be luck of the draw during assembly? That is sort of what it is looking like to me(mostly synced or lined up) as it appears. If its not luck of the draw, than why is it occurring as such?

The makers could be going to the trouble to line them up, but frankly I don't see the need.  Like I said, I see them right out of the box with pretty random distribution of the alignment.  Maybe, for whatever reason, the VL Challenger is lining them up to justify the lack of the articulated sound setup, hard to say until a bunch of them are in the hands of consumers.

Maybe those with the first batches got screwed. Question is, if these get corrected(most likely by the consuming public) my guess is the sound would naturally follow the drivers and the smoke should follow that as well? As far as the Challengers, my guess the same could be said for them, but wagering that the smoke won't alternate as you had mentioned in that other topic like the VL BB's do.

The sound will never follow the drivers as the drivers for each engine are always locked into a specific alignment with respect to each other.  The best you can do with these without independent drives for the two steam "engines" is to have the chuffs locked to the rotation and have the articulated sounds vary similar to the sounds of the prototype.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The sound will never follow the drivers as the drivers for each engine are always locked into a specific alignment with respect to each other.  The best you can do with these without independent drives for the two steam "engines" is to have the chuffs locked to the rotation and have the articulated sounds vary similar to the sounds of the prototype.

Oh, what I meant was that the sound is generated by the drivers(isn't the magnet or such located somewhere on the to register or read the chuffs)? Since each set are lined up it would be in unison unless you do what is in the above video or did I get that wrong as well?

The sound is generated by the electronics from tach sensor counts.  Since there's no indexing of the tach, there's no way for the electronics to know where any physical drivers are with Legacy.

Tony...very informative.  I sent you an e mail about the hideous paint scheme of the GN Mallet.  Lionel says it's a fantasy engine since the GN did not run the 2-6-6-2's.  I don't know for sure.  What is certain is that they totally screwed up the green color...horrible.  Not even close.  Looks like the aftermath of a bad dinner.

Jim

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The sound is generated by the electronics from tach sensor counts.  Since there's no indexing of the tach, there's no way for the electronics to know where any physical drivers are with Legacy.

So it means it is what it is, no articulated sounds unless its hidden in there.