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If you have read Allan Miller's current thread on the psycho-Mom in the UK who sees evil in Thomas the Tank Engine, you might understand why I went searching for a kinder and gentler era when kids were innocent and (most) parents were not stressing about Junior's fragile psyche. I grew up in Cleveland and remember the wonderful Christmas windows and train layouts at Higbee's, Halle's and Sterling Linder Davis from the late fifties into the sixties. What a thrill for a little boy. I found these great photos on the Cleveland Memory Project website. They are from 1934 and show windows of Higbee's department store with Lionel standard gauge trains. I especially love the photo of the little boy staring at what appears to be a Lionel 400E. Hard to believe that this little boy would probably be around 85 years old if he is still alive. I hope he got his trains for Christmas.

 

Please post any photos you might have that evoke these sweet memories. (And yes, I do realize that 1934 was in the depths of the Great Depression and that not everything was rosy; I am hoping to keep this thread "upbeat" and not become a social/political discourse on the inequalities in American Society.)

Enjoy,

Mack

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Higbees trains

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Last edited by mack
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I don't have photos.....but I recall going downtown Los Angles to the huge Sears store. (still standing but not a store any longer) During Christmas they had the big O scale layout. And they even offered used equipment for sale....maybe traded in on new trains??? I bought a lot of Marx track with the black plastic ballast cast into the track....and a few cars too. Always looked forward to going there with Dad......

In the 50's there were 2 department stores not to be missed in New York City: B. Altman (5th Ave at 42nd St) and Macy's (down 42nd at Broadway).  My mother and my aunt would take my brother and I on the subway (F train).  I am sure they were shopping for Christmas but my brother and I could put up with shopping as long as we got to the toy department and the train layouts.  I am pretty sure some of my train gift were based on what I liked most.  Dad worked in the city so he did the actual purchase.

 

Other, non-department stores to see we're Polk's and FAO Schwartz and, of course, the Lionel showroom.

 

Good memories.

In Lancaster, PA the place for trains was Farmers Supply. They had a huge layout with switches and trestles, two things I didn't have on my 4x8 pike. Later on Joe the Motorist stores had a nice selection of Lionel. I usually received an operating car every Christmas, almost always purchased on sale AFTER the previous Christmas. Many of the boxes have the original price stickers with markdowns.
Originally Posted by Mike McCutcheon:

I remember buying MPC Lionel items at Kmart and Caldor dept. stores in the 1970's.  Then HO and N scale Life Like in the mid to late 80's at Kaybee toys.

In the early 1970's COOK'S dept stores carried a full line of Rapido N scale. It was just placed on the shelves in the toy dept. The turnouts came in little boxes....wonder how many walked out???

I can rember going to uptown monroe nc shoping around christmas.Belk store would have lionel train set in the window.And sometimes they also had marx trains.And smaller trains to that ran on 2 rail brass track.Some of those were they had a funny name.They were called tyco and another called cox.I would go home and I would have such big time dreams about christmas day.

Mack, I too was born and raised in Cleveland. Back in the 1950s and early  60s, it was a thrill to travel downtown to see the Christmas toy departments at the department stores you mentioned (and the spectacular and huge Sterling Linder tree). May Company also had a fun toy department back then, and the Hobby House was train central downtown on Huron Road at E. 9th Street.

 

I especially liked going down to the department stores just after Christmas where a boy could spend his Christmas money from relatives and get trains and other neat stuff at closeout prices. Picked up a fabulous chemistry set that way using my mom's green stamps (which May Co. accepted).

 

My Lionel train set (1955) came from Jaye and Jaye Hobby on Lee Road at Euclid (I think). Oh, how I fondly remember the pre-Christmas atmosphere there on a frosty Cleveland night, going in the back to see the layout run and then deciding on what Lionel item I would point out to my Dad as a possible Christmas gift. What fun days those were.

 

For me, born/raised in Washington, D.C. in the 40's, the must-see windows downtown were at Woodward & Lothrop, Kanns, Hechts, Julius Garfinkels,...and up in the northwest section called Tenleytown, just a few blocks from my house, Sears.  All had great huge corner display window areas wherein the magic of the season often included operating trains. 

 

One display in particular is burned into my gray matter.  And, that first photo of this thread could've been me in showing the particular advantage someone of my stature then had in making this 'discovery'!   In the display a lionel train raced along a track at floor-level just in front of the window glass.  It disappeared into a tunnel in a snow-covered mountain as it headed toward the wall.  But a few seconds later the train re-emerged several inches above the first opening, heading off in another direction at this new level!!  HOW DID IT DO THIS???  WHAT WAS IN THAT MOUNTAIN???

 

So I scrunched down to get a better peek into that tunnel opening as the train entered it, and THAT's when I learned about "Magne-Traction", not knowing that the phenomenon had a special name.  The train simply made a couple speedy loops up a hidden helix to the new level.  Way over on the other side of the huge display it apparently rode a hidden helix back down to the floor level again. 

 

I was mesmerized.  And only us miniature folks could easily get down to a viewing position into that tunnel opening to see the ruse....just like that boy in the OP's photo!

 

It would be a monumental task, I'm sure, for someone to search out, assemble, and publish, but a book or some sort of compendium DVD that captured detailed photos of all these special department store, specialty trains store Christmas windows from this bygone era would be a must-have for me.  ...From ALL over the country!!  Those window displays were definitely kid-magnets and part of the sheer magic of the season. 

 

Gone forever, I'm afraid.  Now kids probably stare in drooling wonderment at the latest Blackberry gizmo, X-box, cellphone, pda, pocket-Cray,.....whatever...., sitting ho-humly in a much smaller window area of a much different store. Ah, who am I kidding?...they simply search the web on their home computers in the warm comfort of their own homes for the electronic veeblefetzer-of-their-dreams.  Too bad.

 

(sigh.)

 

 

 

Last edited by dkdkrd

I grew up in Fall River, Ma. and there was a large department store by the name of R.A. McQuirs (unsure of the spelling) that had a huge train layout every Christmas. While my mom shopped I would go up to the 2nd. floor & watch those trains run, standing there mesmerized. Those were the days when you could let a child go alone in a store without worrying.

That was a yearly event along with going to Taunton Green to look at the Xmas lights, Lasallette Shrine in Attleboro, & finally Edarville R.R. in S. Carver.

It wasn't just the big department stores that had train layouts.  In 1951, we lived in Bloomsburg, PA, a small college town where Dad was a student.  Balshis Hardware Store (yes, that's where I got my userid) had a big train section every Christmas season.  My Dad would sometimes take me there on a Saturday morning to watch the trains.  In fact, one Christmas, when I was three years old, a Lionel 2026 followed me home, courtesy of Santa Claus.  And yes, I still have it.

 

We moved to another small Pennsylvania town after Dad graduated and got a full-time job.  Corcelius Hardware had an American Flyer layout in its basement-floor Toyland.  But even that was dwarfed by the big Lionel layout in CH Miller's Toyland.  Miller's was the only department store in town, and though it was pretty small compared to the major metropolitan stores, its Christmas Toyland was second to none.

 

We even had a sizable layout at Hoover's gas station, which was an official Lionel dealership.  That was the first place I ever saw Super-O track, a #50 Gang Car or a #60 Trolley.

 

In those days, you didn't have to go to a major city to see Christmas displays of trains.

 

Most of these posts bear witness to exactly how effective Lionel's promotional expertise was.  Christmastime was THE big season for selling trains....that's a given........but just the fact that SO many stores, big and small, in cities and towns, big and small, carried Lionel (as well as AF and Marx to a lesser extent) trains, is a

true testament to Lionel's selling power.

Originally Posted by Dave Warburton:

Mack, I too was born and raised in Cleveland. Back in the 1950s and early  60s, it was a thrill to travel downtown to see the Christmas toy departments at the department stores you mentioned (and the spectacular and huge Sterling Linder tree). May Company also had a fun toy department back then, and the Hobby House was train central downtown on Huron Road at E. 9th Street.

 

I especially liked going down to the department stores just after Christmas where a boy could spend his Christmas money from relatives and get trains and other neat stuff at closeout prices. Picked up a fabulous chemistry set that way using my mom's green stamps (which May Co. accepted).

 

My Lionel train set (1955) came from Jaye and Jaye Hobby on Lee Road at Euclid (I think). Oh, how I fondly remember the pre-Christmas atmosphere there on a frosty Cleveland night, going in the back to see the layout run and then deciding on what Lionel item I would point out to my Dad as a possible Christmas gift. What fun days those were.

Dave,

 

  Jaye & Jaye, The Trading Post and of course The Hobby House. When I retired from the Army we moved back to Ohio in 1988, about two years before the Hobby House closed the doors for good. I think they closed in 1990-91?

 

Bill

Last edited by Boxcar Bill

Frederick & Nelson in downtown Seattle (now Nordstrom's flagship store) had a window display near Santa.  They had hand prints on the window that kids could put their hand on the outside (from the sidewalk) to make the trains run.  I think they were G.  I've heard Macy's in downtown Seattle was running the trains but not sure if they're the same. 

I am a full time store window designer and fabricator for a company in New York City and as you can guess, now is the middle of my busy season. My assistants and I are cranking full force to get our windows perfect for the big tourist onslaught. When we are installing the weeks before Thanksgiving we, the workers become the tourist draw during the days of installation. I have had people come by everyday sometimes more than once to watch the progress. 

 

A few years ago I worked at the Rockefeller Center location and I was able to sneak a MTH standard gauge Girls set into the holiday display window. The store was carrying the set that year as a special product even though they do not usually carry trains. The prominent window was seen by thousands waiting in line to see the  Rockettes and the big Christmas tree.

 

Moral of the story is that there are still holiday windows in the 21st century of stores that do not normally carry toy trains featuring them in their windows and there are still handcrafted display windows that are not flat printouts from home office.

Last edited by Silver Lake
Growing up in NYC (Manhatten) we had the Lionel Showroom on 26th street & AC Gilbert over on 25th & 5th Ave. Wanamakers Dept. Store had a Monorail set up on the ceiling of the main floor that ran around the entire overhead. Back on Fifth Ave. there was Altmans that had a large Lionel layout and they had a lake with real water in the center of the layout. A clear plastic or glass tube was in the lake & the SF F-3
2343 with alum. passenger cars went through it. That was an incredible sight especially in the 1950's. Of course Macy's on 34th street always had a wonderful layout as well.

As a side note in 1963 I worked at Macy's during the Christmas season selling Lionel Trains & Aurora Race cars. A woman came in one day and said she wanted to buy her husband a train set for him for Christmas. I talked her into buying a Lionel Hudson ($200.00) and various freight cars.
She said "My husband will kill me." I told her he'll probably say that it was the best Xmas present ever. A few weeks latter a gentleman came up to the 5th floor where we were selling the trains and he asked if I was the one who sold his wife the $200.00 Hudson and assorted cars. He wasn't smiling and I hesitated to say I was but I eventually said that yes it was me. He reached over and shook my hand & thanked me profusely. Said it was the best Xmas present ever.

Those are my best department store memories of Christmas.
Last edited by Captain John
Originally Posted by jim sutter:

My mother and father always took me to Pittsburgh to see the train layouts at Gimbel's, Kaufman's and Horne's. Also, they would take me to the Penn Traffic dept. store in Johnstown to see their train layouts. Christmas, what a wonderful time of the year.

Dang Jim, ya beat me to it!!  Yep the BIG THREE, Kaufman's, Joesph Horne, Gimbel's.  I also think Boggs & Buhl had trains but it burned down rather spectacularly as I recall as a wee lad.  Then there was Bill & Walt's Hobbies, though they did not have a layout as I recall.  Dad always got Lionel through Doubleday-Hill Company, an electrical supply house  that sold and repaired Lionel but had no storefront.

 

Still have every Lionel train and accessory I received growing up (and their pristine boxes).

Originally Posted by trainroomgary:

Hudson's Department Store, Detroit

 

They always had a Toy Land, I believe it was on the 12th floor.

American Flyer, Erector Sets & Lionel Trains, were always on display.

If you were a kid, it did not get any better

see photo of building from Woodward Ave.

Click to enlarge

Hudson's in Detroit 1950's

Yeah, it was the entire 12th floor.  Whenever we visited my grandmother in Detroit at Christmas - Hudson's was the place to go.  They had great Lionel & American Flyer display layouts, along with every toy imaginable. 

Originally Posted by Mill City:

Brandeis Dept Store - Omaha, NE. 1950's 60's SANTALAND Christmas railway!

Which reminds me of Eaton's in Toronto when I was growing up.  Each year Eaton's Toyland had a miniature train right in Toyland.  The equipment was built by either Canadian Pacific or Canadian National at their shops in Montreal and appeared first in Toronto and then Montreal stores. I think the train was a bigger highlight than Santa Claus! This is a very special memory for me.

 

It just shows how big trains were in post-war department store toy retailing.

 

Their is a history of the Eaton's Toyland trains in November-December 2005 issue of Canadian Rail.  One train still exists at Expo Rail near Montreal. You can find the article online here.

Toyland

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Last edited by Bill Robb

I grew up in Bayonne NJ, home of Johnny Carsons tailor; Raul of Bayonne.  I remember many of the dept stores having a display of some kind but do not remember the name of the stores.  Some were just a loop in the window, others especially at the Christmas store were full on displays of everything Christmas.  Then there was Dobbs hobby shop which always had something going on in the window.  If we managed to drive to Jersey City the Two Guys from Harrison store had a large display along with a very active hobby/train dept.  Never made it into NYC.

I don't have any pictures, whish I did. I have memories of this HUGE train store as a kid, looking back I was small and sure the perspective of things where  that of a 8 year old. The store is Box-Kar Hobbies in Cedar Rapids Iowa. It have moved a few time in town and the stores have gotten small over the years but the one I remember was on the corner of the block, you when UP to get in the front door and the train stuff went all the way to the ceiling! Might be a lot of kid imagination in that but I love the memory! BTW that was like 41 years ago.

Dan

Originally Posted by drodder:

I don't have any pictures, whish I did. I have memories of this HUGE train store as a kid, looking back I was small and sure the perspective of things where  that of a 8 year old. The store is Box-Kar Hobbies in Cedar Rapids Iowa. It have moved a few time in town and the stores have gotten small over the years but the one I remember was on the corner of the block, you when UP to get in the front door and the train stuff went all the way to the ceiling! Might be a lot of kid imagination in that but I love the memory! BTW that was like 41 years ago.

Dan

You're right Box Kar is still here just smaller.  Place to go is Caboose Stop Hobbies in Cedar Falls IA.  Has permanent MTH layout in store center and always something to browse and hopefully tempt you to pry your wallet open.

Originally Posted by rrman:
Originally Posted by B+M FAN:

when kids had imagination you can see it in their eyes.

Boy ain't that the truth. Operative word above is "had".   Now a day kids only imagine whats on their Ipad/phone/tablet etc, it seems to me.

I would be careful about that, kids are growing up today different than when I did, when some of the older members did, but kids and creativity have always gone together, as does imagination (quite frankly, it is us old farts who lack imagination, probably because we had adults as kids beating it out of us, telling us it was impossible).  There are kids looking at that window who see the trains and imagine having a layout, there are kids looking at that window and want the BB gun to go and shoot at birds with. I am sure the kids of that generation were told by elders they had no imagination, that in their day they made their own toys out of sticks and such, or read books rather than spend their time listening to Dick Tracy and Little Orphan Annie on the Radio *lol*.

 

Seriously, don't put the kids of today down, they are different than we were, there is no doubt, but there are a lot of them who have just as  much imagination as we did, and in some cases because of those devices can do more with it than we could. I also will add that the kids of today face a lot more pressure than we did from an early age, the pressure with school and the future is hitting kids younger and younger, we had the luxury of a childhood for the most part that let us be kids, we didn't have the pressure of GPA in the lower schools (stupid, I know, but  it is there) or parents, worried about the future, that make it seem like imagination play and such are luxuries the kids can't afford, even when young, and that is sad. I see those kids, I see what many of them do, and want my opinion? The type of kid I am talking about, and they aren't rare, put most of us to shame in what they have to deal with. 

Originally Posted by bigkid:
Originally Posted by rrman:
Originally Posted by B+M FAN:

when kids had imagination you can see it in their eyes.

Boy ain't that the truth. Operative word above is "had".   Now a day kids only imagine whats on their Ipad/phone/tablet etc, it seems to me.

I would be careful about that, kids are growing up today different than when I did, when some of the older members did, but kids and creativity have always gone together, as does imagination (quite frankly, it is us old farts who lack imagination, probably because we had adults as kids beating it out of us, telling us it was impossible).  There are kids looking at that window who see the trains and imagine having a layout, there are kids looking at that window and want the BB gun to go and shoot at birds with. I am sure the kids of that generation were told by elders they had no imagination, that in their day they made their own toys out of sticks and such, or read books rather than spend their time listening to Dick Tracy and Little Orphan Annie on the Radio *lol*.

 

Seriously, don't put the kids of today down, they are different than we were, there is no doubt, but there are a lot of them who have just as  much imagination as we did, and in some cases because of those devices can do more with it than we could. I also will add that the kids of today face a lot more pressure than we did from an early age, the pressure with school and the future is hitting kids younger and younger, we had the luxury of a childhood for the most part that let us be kids, we didn't have the pressure of GPA in the lower schools (stupid, I know, but  it is there) or parents, worried about the future, that make it seem like imagination play and such are luxuries the kids can't afford, even when young, and that is sad. I see those kids, I see what many of them do, and want my opinion? The type of kid I am talking about, and they aren't rare, put most of us to shame in what they have to deal with. 

True what you write.  I am  guilty of what the wife calls the "all" and "everyone" blanket statement syndrome.   Been working on me for 44 years trying to break me of it without much success.

    Hi everyone hopefully everyone is doing OK? When I grew up we never went down town to Pittsburgh to go shopping. We had the Monroeville Mall and Sears in Wilkins Township. None of the stores had train display's in any of the windows so the only place to get train stuff was Clabers Hardware in North Versales or Loreskies hobby and camera shop in Monroeville. Choo Choo Kenny

Originally Posted by Dave Warburton:

Boxcar Bill. the Hobby House in Cleveland closed  around 1994-95.

 

Also...the photos which started this post of Higbee's department store windows in Cleveland were the very same windows used in the classic film, "A Christmas Story," with Ralphie and his family standing in the same spot as the kids in these photos.

I thought so, thanks!

Originally Posted by rrman:
Originally Posted by jim sutter:

My mother and father always took me to Pittsburgh to see the train layouts at Gimbel's, Kaufman's and Horne's. Also, they would take me to the Penn Traffic dept. store in Johnstown to see their train layouts. Christmas, what a wonderful time of the year.

Dang Jim, ya beat me to it!!  Yep the BIG THREE, Kaufman's, Joesph Horne, Gimbel's.  I also think Boggs & Buhl had trains but it burned down rather spectacularly as I recall as a wee lad.  Then there was Bill & Walt's Hobbies, though they did not have a layout as I recall.  Dad always got Lionel through Doubleday-Hill Company, an electrical supply house  that sold and repaired Lionel but had no storefront.

 

Still have every Lionel train and accessory I received growing up (and their pristine boxes).

Jimmy & Sam:

 

I may have been standing next to you guys looking in those windows back then.  My fondest memory is of the disappearing train layout in Kaufmann’s window in 1950 which had a 2035 pulling a string of Lionel Scout gondolas into that very short tunnel and not coming back out for 5 or 10 seconds.  And their in-store layouts were fantastic. 

 

Besides the downtown department stores, many neighborhood hardware stores had layouts in their windows at Christmas time.  I remember that Burns Hardware on Brownsville Road in Carrick sold Lionel Trains during the Holidays and they had a small layout in their storefront window which I walked past everyday on my way to and from grade school.  And Hazelbart’s Hardware across the street sold American Flyer trains during the holidays.

 

Bill

I will never forget back in the 1950's when my best friend and I would walk over the 59 ST bridge from Queens to Bloomingdale's a few days after Thanksgiving.

We would take the elevator up to the TOY department and stay there for hours at a time. They had really big layouts with both the Lionel and American Flyer trains running. My dream was watching the Santa Fe F'3s, Oh how I wanted a set under the tree.

After Bloomingdale's we would walk down town to the Lionel showroom, then over to American Flyer and then I believe Polk hobby store or whatever the name was. This was the high light of our train days in the 50's.

I remember the  layouts, and the crowds were everywhere we went. I remember how I liked the Flyer showroom train layouts so much better than the Lionel ones because they had 2 rail, but I was locked into Lionel.

After that we made our way to the Hobby store, I should say building. I can recall taking the elevator up to the 3rd floor, that's where the trains were. They always had a few layouts running. We never bought anything because we only had the 10 cense and we needed  that so we can take the trolley back over the bridge home .

Two days after Christmas my Mother gave me a note and her Bloomingdale credit card saying I could spend no more $20.00 on trains (she also called the store just to make sure). This was when all the train related stuff was discounted.

I can't remember everything I purchased but I do remember getting the operating Saw Mill one year. I also remember the trailer loader with the flat car that had the trailers on it. But the best was the number 50 trolley.

You know one thing about being young back in the 50's was how much little things meant to me.  We did not have a lot of money, but every Christmas there was always something Lionel under the tree.

Going to bed with the Lionel catalog, wishing for the Santa Fe F 3's that never happened. But I was always happy with everything Lionel I got, and  I still have some of them.

Christmas in New York was something special and thank God I can still remember those days, when my best friend and I would spend the whole day having the time of our life.

 

Rich in NH

 

PS I now have two sets of Santa Fe F 3's

For us growing up in Central Jersey in the early 60s it was Arcadia Gardens in Woodbridge. They were a seasonal store that became all Christmas after Halloween. I remember it as mostly Lionel but I believe there was some Flyer too.
Montgomery Wards also had some layouts. Those were some great days.

One thought: almost everyone here that enjoys trains now was exposed to them as a child when we were younger. What are today's kids exposed to? And what are they going to seek out when they get older? They are constantly bombarded with ads and displays for iPhones, video games, etc. Maybe a little more exposure to trains would help?

Sean

I never see anybody from Chicago post anything. That being said I can remember taking the EL( North South Line) with my mother and walking down State St looking at all the Department Stores windows. Marshal Fields had the best window displays with trains in both the Randolph & State and Washington & State windows. Marshal Fields on the fourth Floor had a Toy department from **** and during the holidays had Train layouts running. After dreaming on the fourth Floor for an hour or so, she would take me to the Walnut Room to eat. This is where Fields had their Christmas tree that was 5 floors high. One year early 70s I was there to see the tree being topped. My father was one of the head electricians and his crew was responsible for the tree set up. My father for years had been the one to put the final ornament on the top of the tree and I got to see him do it. That was a great year.

Bigkid, I agree with you 100%: children are born with an innate sense of wonder and imagination and it is we adults who drive it out of them. They have the same capabilities that we were born with; if those capabilities are lacking when they grow up we have ONLY ourselves to blame. Praise to those parents and teachers and others who nurture imagination and creativity in children today. They are fighting a tough battle and deserve our support.

Originally Posted by MartyE:

Jeez we just sure don't know how to do Christmas anymore.

Because we have driven department stores out of business with the Targets, Walley Worlds, Amazon etc in pursuit of ever lower prices over personal service and things like toylands that inspire imagination.

Going back into my 1950s cave now.

I vaguely remember the last years of Altman's holiday train display in the store (one of the magazines, maybe CTT, did a feature on it), sometime in the latter 60's, I also vaguely recall a layout at holiday time in NYC that may have been the old Gilbert Hall of Science...I don't recall any other really big displays in the stores, Macy's in recent years has had one in their Santaland, but nothing like the big store window displays, I suspect I am too young to have really seen that in the area I live in (did those displays last longer in other areas, or did they all die out by the late 50's?). 

Sibley's, in downtown Rochester NY, used to have a great Toyland on the 4th floor with lots of Lionel and AF trains.  You stood in line for maybe 20 minutes to get in there, but to a kid it seemed like 8 hours.  It was always something special each year to take a bus ride down there with your mother or grandmother and go through the Magic Corridor display.  That was the mid to late 50s timeframe for me. Great memories!  Later on, with our own kids, you could combine Toyland with a ride on the monorail in Midtown Plaza, the first indoor urban mall in the US. Sibley's is now a community college, and Midtown Plaza was closed in 2008.

Photos of the Lionel and American Flyer layouts at Marshall Field's in Chicago are either non-existent or haven't been put up on the internet yet. Apparently the same goes for the other department store trains in Chicago's "Loop" downtown area.  My Mom used to indulge me with a holiday season tour of all the toy departments and Field's train department was the best - not just at Christmas but year 'round. I remember Carson Pirie Scott, Wieboldt's, and Mandel Bros. also had trains but we're going back to the Eisenhower era here and I don't remember much about their set-ups.

Originally Posted by Dave Warburton:

Mack, I too was born and raised in Cleveland. Back in the 1950s and early  60s, it was a thrill to travel downtown to see the Christmas toy departments at the department stores you mentioned (and the spectacular and huge Sterling Linder tree). May Company also had a fun toy department back then, and the Hobby House was train central downtown on Huron Road at E. 9th Street.

 

I especially liked going down to the department stores just after Christmas where a boy could spend his Christmas money from relatives and get trains and other neat stuff at closeout prices. Picked up a fabulous chemistry set that way using my mom's green stamps (which May Co. accepted).

 

My Lionel train set (1955) came from Jaye and Jaye Hobby on Lee Road at Euclid (I think). Oh, how I fondly remember the pre-Christmas atmosphere there on a frosty Cleveland night, going in the back to see the layout run and then deciding on what Lionel item I would point out to my Dad as a possible Christmas gift. What fun days those were.

Those were fun!  I remember Nobby Hobby Shop at E103 and Union and also Sparks Hobby at E131 and Miles.  No giant display layouts but fun just the same.

 

Halle Brothers in Cleveland had a huge Super O display in 1958.  Wish I had pictures.

 

And just for the record, Jaye and Jaye was on Ivanhoe off Euclid.

 

One year Hobby House had a display layout in the store; a 10 x 11 foot layout with a circle each of O scale, s gauge, and HO.

 

I only wish when Christmas Story was shot in Cleveland that some of the indoor display layout had made it into the movie.

 

Regards,

 

Lou N

Originally Posted by John23:
Originally Posted by Mill City:
Originally Posted by suzukovich:
Jon. Where are the pics. Ah yes its Halloween,  gost pics!

Strange, I don't know, they show-up for me. How many are missing?

None of this last bunch showed up for me either.

Ghost pics, indeed. Thanks, John. I tried reloading them, but apparently, they're still invisible. I'll try again. Any other pics further back?

Originally Posted by Mill City:

Let's see if this one shows up:

 

Leonard's Department Store, Fort Worth, Texas.

 

leonard toyland

Jon:

 

Yep, it showed up.

 

Leonard’s is well-known among us Trolley buffs, too, as they had their own fleet of specially-designed full-sized PCC trolley cars to shuttle shoppers the 7/10th of a mile from their parking lot to the store.  

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Mill City:

Thanks for the confirmation, Bill. Is this the trolley?

 

Leonard's Department Store - Fort Worth

Jon:

 

Yes, that’s it, although it’s hard to tell it’s a PCC from that angle.  Attached is another photo from a different angle in which it more closely resembles a conventional PCC.

Thanks to Don Ross for that photo.

 

Bill

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Originally Posted by WftTrains:
Originally Posted by Mill City:

Thanks for the confirmation, Bill. Is this the trolley?

 

Leonard's Department Store - Fort Worth

Jon:

 

Yes, that’s it, although it’s hard to tell it’s a PCC from that angle.  Attached is another photo from a different angle in which it more closely resembles a conventional PCC.

Thanks to Don Ross for that photo.

 

Bill

From the side it resembles the CTA 6000 series EL cars not so much the PCCs  The front resembles the North Shore Electroliners. 

 

O Posted by suzukovich:

 

From the side it resembles the CTA 6000 series EL cars not so much the PCCs  The front resembles the North Shore Electroliners. 

 

 

Good observation, but they were used PCCs purchased from the Washington, DC transit system and then significantly modified them for their unique requirements. 

 

Bill

 

 

Good observation, but they were used PCCs purchased from the Washington, DC transit system and then significantly modified them for their unique requirements. 

 

Bill

 

Bill, Although the intial production of the CTA 6000 series by St Louis Car Company used PCC components, the first 200 were built using new parts. 6000-6200

 

 

 

 

The second order 6201 - 6720 and 1-50 were built from components from the PCCs( new body shell, reconditioned motors trucks,control, motor generators and certain body components.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am a little envious of you guys/gals that grew up during this era.  Being able to go to department stores in the 1950's and seeing this stuff.  Due to my age, I can remember seeing layouts at some stores for about 2 holiday seasons before it became a thing of the past. And probably like many of you, I never got to stay long enough to watch the trains.

Originally Posted by RideTheRails:

I am a little envious of you guys/gals that grew up during this era.  Being able to go to department stores in the 1950's and seeing this stuff.  Due to my age, I can remember seeing layouts at some stores for about 2 holiday seasons before it became a thing of the past. And probably like many of you, I never got to stay long enough to watch the trains.

Some of us grew up in the 60s and 70s when kids were still able to be kids.

>Some of us grew up in the 60s and 70s when kids were still able to be kids.

 

That is the truth.

Lazarus used to cover the entire front of the store with a six-story Christmas tree done in lights. Even the little stores around here turned unused space into Toyland.

 

I've thought a lot about this, though: when we were kids, the Christmas decorations went up after Thanksgiving. That's also when we started practicing for school pageants and helping our moms bake. When we got to go to the department stores, we got to see Santa and walk through the toy department, but if you look at one of those old buildings and realize what we were looking at, no wonder we didn't have as many meltdowns as you see now. The G.C. Murphy Toyland looked huge. It was actually two aisles in a store the size of a modern Family Dollar/Dollar General. The book "department" was the size of a large home bookshelf. There were maybe three or four kinds of large trucks in playsets, plus a dozen or so kinds of smaller ones. If there were three or four large dolls with furniture and such, and a dozen small ones, that was still enough to set off Christmas dreaming. We didn't have miles of confusing things to choose from, and the toys didn't do things for us. When it came to trains, I think our Murphy's and Grant's had a couple of large HO sets, a couple of basic ones, and maybe a Marx set. (By the time I got around, most Lionel was at Heil's Bike Shop or Cooey-Bentz in Wheeling.) Sometimes fewer choices make for happier kids.

That's also why so many of us remember being allowed to wander around and look at toys When there were only a couple of aisles, our parents always knew where we were.

J L Hudson's statistics culled from Historic Detroit.org:

 

For generations, it was as synonymous with Christmas and fashion as it was Detroit. The store at Woodward and Gratiot avenues was absolutely massive, evolving with the Motor City until it became the tallest department store in the world. By the time it finished growing, the store’s size almost defied belief.

A quick list of facts, many courtesy of the Detroit Historical Museum:

  • The store was 2,124,316 square feet, making it second in size among department stores to only Macy’s in New York. Even then, Macy’s is only 26,000 square feet bigger.
  • The store was spread out over 32 floors: 25 floors, two half-floors, a mezzanine and four basements.
  • At 410 feet, Hudson’s was the tallest department store in the world.
  • The building had 51 passenger elevators, 17 freight elevators, eight employee elevators and 48 escalators. Its largest freight elevator could accommodate a semi trailer.
  • Hudson’s had to have three transformer centers in the store: They generated enough juice to power a city of about 20,000.
  • The store had 39 men’s restrooms, 50 for women and 10 private ones for executives. The largest was a women’s lounge on the fourth floor that had a whopping 85 stalls.
  • It had 705 fitting rooms, a world record.
  • The dining rooms and cafeterias served an average of 10,000 meals a day - not counting the 6,000 meals a day served in the employee cafeteria on the 14th floor. The 13th floor dining room was renowned for its Maurice salad and Canadian cheese soup.
  • The store originally had 18 entrances and 100 display windows, which were changed weekly.
  • The store featured more than 200 departments across an incredible 49 acres of floor space, and it featured about 600,000 items from 16,000 vendors from 40 countries. The building had 51 elevators serving its 17 floors of retail.

Joseph Lowthian Hudson and his father were running a men’s clothing store in the lumber town of Ionia, Mich., when the Panic of 1873 struck. When the sawmills were shuttered, their customers couldn’t pay their bills. Then Hudson’s father died. Three years later, Hudson went bankrupt, paying his creditors 60 cents on the dollar. Hudson dusted himself off and started over in Detroit. In 1881, Hudson opened his first store on the ground floor of the old Detroit Opera House. In 1888, he was so successful, he looked up all the creditors he had shorted in the bankruptcy proceedings 12 years earlier and paid them in full - with compound interest.

In 1911, he opened what would become the first piece of the behemoth. Many people thought Hudson was a fool opening so far north of Jefferson Avenue, then the heart of the city’s commercial district.

Hudson himself was a legend. Easily one of the most successful businessmen in the city’s history, Hudson also was a benefactor. He would serve as chairman and organizer of Detroit’s Associated Charities, which laid the foundation for the United Way Foundation.

In 1954, Hudson’s had sales of more than $163 million (an astronomical $1.28 billion today).

In 1961, at age 29, Joseph L. Hudson Jr. - the founder’s grandnephew - became the business’ president. He had started out working on the docks of the downtown store in 1950. He emphasized fashion and special events and would grow the chain, expanding into the suburbs as the city’s population sprawled into the countryside.

In 1969, Hudson’s merged with Dayton Co. of Minneapolis, creating Dayton Hudson Corp. The merger led to growth not on in Michigan, but also Ohio and Indiana.

As the city’s decline in population, reputation and wealth continued, Hudson’s downtown store closed Jan. 17, 1983, after more than 90 years of business.

But the building was not abandoned at this point. The company’s corporate offices remained in the Big Store, and about 1,200 people still worked there. A new lobby and security entrance were added on the Farmer Street side for employees and visitors. Employees would stick around the building until 1990, when the store was sold by Dayton Hudson Corp. to Southwestern Associates of Windsor, Ontario.

“Various media sources wanted the public to believe that Hudson’s had been vacant for 15 years, when in actuality, it was eight years,” said historian Michael Hauser, “which, by Detroit standards, is a relatively short period of time, compared to many other large vacant structures in the city that have been idle for decades.”

The big blast at the Big Store

Despite several pitches to redevelop the enormous structure, the building was imploded at 5:45 p.m. (the store’s closing time) on Oct. 24, 1998.

“With a deafening roar that will echo in the hearts of Detroiters for decades, the Hudson’s building was blasted to the ground — ending one era and beginning another in 30 ground-shaking seconds,” The Detroit News wrote. “A symbol of glamor for three generations, a symbol of decay for another, the mammoth structure wobbled like a drunk, hesitated, then collapsed into a 60-foot-high pile of rubble — coating downtown streets with a fine gray dust.”

Thirteen years after the big bang at the Big Store, no development has occurred at the site other than an underground parking garage. Hope that someone might wish to build on the property has left Detroiters with nothing but a giant empty space in the heart of downtown dotted by steel girders poking above a concrete expanse.

 

 

 

Great stories and photos, people.

 

In Binghamton, NY, we had two big department stores that carried trains: Fowler, Dick & Walker displayed Lionel, and McLean's displayed American Flyer.  What fun and amazement it was to stand with other kids and watch the equipment demonstrated.  And we were also fortunate to have Woolworth's with its Marx trains and various HO.  Sorry, no photos: Film and processing were just too expensive!

Thanks Jon for the detailed information on Hudsons.  My sister and I paid a last visit in Christmas 1982, shortly before it closed.  It was pretty sad.

A note about the demolition, they messed it up and dropped the building on the guideway of Detroit's automated People Mover.  It was not repaired for quite a while.

Last edited by John23
One example of the Modern Day holiday in-store experience.

In Kansas City...each year since they opened five years ago, the Bass Pro Shops in Olathe, Kansas has converted its indoor marine sales floor into a Santa's Workshop.

-FREE 5X7 photo with Santa (Happy to up sell you for more copies) whole family can be in photo. Not just the kiddos.
-5x10 Lionel train display with Lionel BPS custom marked starter sets hovering around $200. You control the throttle!
-Slot car layout. You control the throttles!
-Radio control off road style table top to test drive RC trucks they sell.
-Virtual duck hunt video game.
-Bow and suction-cup Arrows with kids sized equipment to take out targets in a carnival style archery range.
-And the glorious of all glories...stacks of official Red Rider BB rifles with all the correct, old school markings. They even sell a pink stock model for the girls.
-Picnic tables for weekly kid friendly crafts.
-North Pole Mail box with stationary to write your list to Santa.
-Miniature carousel.
-Ornaments, trinkets and old school toys to wax you nostalgic.
-Employees dress up like elves and engage with parents and kids to help, talk products and assist with interactive toys.

Jr. Engineero and I stopped by today. They are in the process of setting up and are two weeks from opening. Still...her eyes were glued to the fixtures, shrink wrap and all the crates.

Her imagination was running at full steam.
Last edited by CH

Macy's (formerly Bon Marche') has there toy trains running again Now thru Christmas. Look at the north east corner. I have not been by to see it yet, but will stop in the next few weeks and see if there are any changes.  

Last year it still looked like the 2008 videos that were posted in an earlier message.  

Fantastic ride down Memory Lane....I am frequently accused of living in the past, but

I like it there, and I ain't leavin' it!  I have no photos of Kaufman's, where an aunt

worked, and Stewart's where my mother worked (she later worked at a Woolworth's

out in the suburbs), the large department stores on 4th Street, once the major

Louisville, Kentucky shopping area.  There must be some, in archives there. Those two

and the Sears store several blocks from 4th on Broadway were the targets for kids

who wanted to see toylands and trains.  Woolworth's was the largest dime store with

a basement toy department and Marx trains.  Grant's and Kresge's never seemed to

have as much, nor did, even the dime store sized Montgomery-Wards that sat among

them along that strip.  Fischer's Hobby Shop was visited, but infrequently, as they did not carry Marx.  They were my source for Hudson Miniatures antique car kits.  They were up a steep stairs on an upper floor of a building on a side street off 4th. Sutcliffe's, a sporting goods store, turned their mezzanine into a train shop during

the holidays, and that is where I saw the less common Marx.  One thing about all

of today's technology.....if then, all the camera phones and video cameras would have

captured all of this.

 

I'm with you colorado.I work,I pay taxes and I get along in the world.I live in the past…..SO WHAT?NickOriginally Posted by colorado hirailer:

Fantastic ride down Memory Lane....I am frequently accused of living in the past, but

I like it there, and I ain't leavin' it!  I have no photos of Kaufman's, where an aunt

worked, and Stewart's where my mother worked (she later worked at a Woolworth's

out in the suburbs), the large department stores on 4th Street, once the major

Louisville, Kentucky shopping area.  There must be some, in archives there. Those two

and the Sears store several blocks from 4th on Broadway were the targets for kids

who wanted to see toylands and trains.  Woolworth's was the largest dime store with

a basement toy department and Marx trains.  Grant's and Kresge's never seemed to

have as much, nor did, even the dime store sized Montgomery-Wards that sat among

them along that strip.  Fischer's Hobby Shop was visited, but infrequently, as they did not carry Marx.  They were my source for Hudson Miniatures antique car kits.  They were up a steep stairs on an upper floor of a building on a side street off 4th. Sutcliffe's, a sporting goods store, turned their mezzanine into a train shop during

the holidays, and that is where I saw the less common Marx.  One thing about all

of today's technology.....if then, all the camera phones and video cameras would have

captured all of this.

 

 

Originally Posted by colorado hirailer:

Fantastic ride down Memory Lane....I am frequently accused of living in the past, but

I like it there, and I ain't leavin' it!  I have no photos of Kaufman's, where an aunt

worked, and Stewart's where my mother worked (she later worked at a Woolworth's

out in the suburbs), the large department stores on 4th Street, once the major

Louisville, Kentucky shopping area.  There must be some, in archives there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, film and developing were expensive in those days, not to be wasted willy-nilly.

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