Vision Line T-1 Possibility and Questions

As much as I love the T-1, I sure hope Lionel doesn't make it as their next VL product, I can't afford it.

 

But as to your other questions, it has to be the as delivered prototype, not the in service prototypes or any of the production units.  It has been said in a couple places by those that know that the wheel slip was not an issue for those that knew what they were doing, but being so close to the end of steam on the Pennsy, just about anyone was running them.  As for success, that really depends on your definition of success.  As for passenger cars, look at the recent MTH offering of the T-1, they had the correct style cars.  About freight, AFAIK they did pull some at their end.

To be honest i am not into the t1. If they make that as there choice i am happy.I wont have to spend any money..

Is this model one that you would like to buy or is it really a Pennsy fan loco?

Yes, but not as a Pennsylvania Fan, more as a Passenger Train Fan and for the art deco styling.

 

What Vision Line features must this loco have for you to purchase?

Not sure, but reconfigurable streamline panels would be kind of cool. Maybe a changeable front end. My steamers smoke, so the more the better. Speakers in tender and engine... that really makes a bigger difference then I expected.

 

Though, according to Wikipedia, there were about 52 of these produced, were they really that successful in service?

Always amazed that this question is even considered by model railroaders, who cares?

 

What would be the most prototypical passenger consist for this loco?

Personally, I like the FOM cars, but the real PRR fans will need to answer this one.

 

Were they used in freight service?

I think so, but again the rail PRR guys will need to answer this one.

 

Would you prefer the shrouded three porthole version?

If I had to choose, it would be the streamline version, but I like both

 

Nice Youtube link, thanks for sharing.

 

Charlie

I find myself in agreement with everything Charlie says except about the prototype in service. It's a relevant part of the history whether the loco was a success or failure but, frankly, even abject failure does not stop me getting models of certain engines - the UP 80 coal turbine is the prime example in my case.

 

If Lionel offers the T-1 I'll probably bite my tongue over whatever exorbitant price they list it for and look around at dealer prices. I agree with Charlie that the art deco design appeals if only as a piece of nostalgia. If it's the GG1 I'll take a lot more convincing. P.S. That's because like a lot of people I have the JLC version and I am at a loss to see how Lionel could improve it.

 

A bit of heresy: might it (the T-1) have a swinging bell????

It would be even more interesting if Lionel have some of the purchase portion to the T1 trust fund for actually building a new one! Fwiw, the Prr t1 trust says the slipage problem was not as big of a deal and was solved.

 

For the "Circle L" Boyz looking for me to pony up and preorder, this VL PRR T1[ which will probably target for $1800-2100 price range would need to:

 

• Look like the semi-skirted or Altoona Versions:
• 
• 
• it must e equipped with CORRECt poppet Sound and not an articulated sound
• Simulated whistle steam
• Blow down effects
• full cab interior
• open Baldwin disk wheels

Much as I love the looks of the T-1, I would not buy a VL flavor of it.  There are several reasons:

1. VL engines are way out of my price range (by my choice).
2. I don't have the curves to run it (O54 is my mainline maximum).

Personally, I would like to see a Legacy PRR I1s Decapod with the ability to run on O54. 

 

George

I'll jump in:

 

I would consider it heavily if there was a Pilot version offered, and it retained the "later",

shorter skirting (in other words, if Lionel used their existing shell). I have the TMCC (no Odyssey) version. Some say that the blind drivers were prone to shorting on some switches, so that would have to be addressed, if true. 

 

If there was no Pilot ("unpainted" - not really; they're clear-coated) version I would just be happy with my TMCC version and let it go.

 

The T-1 is a powerful vision of Deco modernism. Gorgeous. Sci-Fi Steam.

I have one even though they were not what they were intended to be, and my favorite road is the NYC. PRR or not, their modern experimentals always talk to me. Most failed (the Q2 did not), but, still. 

 

The Niagara was actually what the T-1 was intended to be. The former worked superbly, the latter was flawed. Still impressive as all get out. Those flaws could have been fixed, but too late, too much cost, too not-a-diesel-electric.

 

===

To my knowledge, the T-1, like many modern steamers, had no "swinging bell". I would think that it had a pneumatic clapper in a fixed bell. Putting one on there would be so wrong. I doubt that they would. 

 

I would be in for a vision line t1 in any version (as delivered or in service). I previously owned the full scale version from 2000 and it was one of my favorite engines. I sold it a few years ago before the price absolutely dropped on them in the used market. When I saw they remade the full scale S2 turbine, I figured the T1 would happen sooner or later. As for features, I'm sure they will have something new and unexpected for us. The 2 features I will look for are 1) multiple smoke features and 2) a speaker in the boiler and in the tender. I recently got a vision line challenger and the speaker in the boiler makes a HUGE difference. I am looking forward to the announcement on Wednesday.

Does anyone know if there will be a live stream of it anywhere? (Notch6? YouTube?)

Eliot,

     The feature I would like to see on a Vision Line PRR T-1 would be to spin the front drivers just like the prototype in the video you posted. If Lionel put two moters in the engine, no traction tires on the front set of drivers and a device similar to the sound effects on the VL BB spinning its wheels. Also some way of increasing the voltage to the front motor so the wheels actually spin as well as the sound would get me to put down 2 grand quickly. Of course steam whistle, blow down and cylinder steam effect would also be expected. I do realize I am asking for a lot. And to think I just got two Legacy K4s to head up my passenger train.

JohnB

Is this model one that you would like to buy or is it really a Pennsy fan loco?

My layout theme is the PRR in the late 40s, so this engine is a must for me. 

 

What Vision Line features must this loco have for you to purchase?

Speaker in the boiler, and two separate sound systems for each engine like the VL BB.

 

Though, according to Wikipedia, there were about 52 of these produced, were they really that successful in service?

They had some teething issues that were correctable, but the worsening financial state of the PRR and the impressive results of the E7 ABA set the Pennsy bought for analysis doomed the T1 to an early death. 

 

What would be the most prototypical passenger consist for this loco?

If Lionel reissues their 2000 version of the T1, that version (late 40s) mostly pulled express trains made up of X29, R50b, B60b, and RPO cars.  Also some freight.  If they pulled passenger trains, they probably would not have been named trains.  So a consist of heavyweight and lightweight cars (some still with the FOM paint), along with several head-end cars would be appropriate.  If the engine is of one of the two prototypes as built, which I believe we have too many already from MTH and 3rd Rail, then GGD's 1938 Broadway Limited (FOM) would be a good consist.  If it is a porthole engine from the mid-40s, any named passenger train would do as well as express trains.

 

Were they used in freight service?

Yes.  Mostly express trains until late in their life.

 

Would you prefer the shrouded three porthole version?

As mentioned above, my era is late 40s.  The original two prototypes had their streamlining removed years before, and I believe all of the porthole engines had that shrouding removed by then.  So I'm hoping for Lionel's original 2000 version similar to the second picture in prrhorseshoecurve's post.

FWIW... I had an MTH Premier T-1 that would run on O-48. Didn't look so great, but it managed.

Many thanks to all of you for your contributions.

I am learning quite a bit about the locomotive.

 

Scrapiron

Let's see what Lionel announces!  It will be interesting!

 

 Photos of the three skirting variations.

 

 

   Full skirting as delivered from Baldwin #6110

 

 

 

 

 

    The semi skirted version. #5526 at Crestline, Ohio October 13,1946 

 

 

 

    Unskirted, #5533 backing into a train at Crestline, Ohio. date unknown

m

 

My personal choice is the unskirted version, but the semi skirted

version with that art deco styling is hard not to like. Which is your

favorite?

There actually is a forth version, the prototypes with most of their skirting removed.

 

One of my top steamers to be sure. My favorite story about this one is in a Trains magazine article from years ago where a sidelined T1 was put into service around Crestview OH to replace an ailing K4 pulling a mostly mail train to Ft Wayne IN. The engineer told the fireman (who wrote the piece) "This is probably the last time we'll get to run one of these so let's see what she'll really do". They proceeded to drive her through a couple of quick stops with a final 27 mile dash into Ft Wayne at what they calculated to be close to 130 MPH!

How many other locomotives could do that especially pulling a dozen or more cars?

Watch it not be a T1.

I was thinking the same.

 

We should know soon, isn't it being announced Wednesday?

 

I really hope it's a PRR product!

Also thinking that here. Although it's good of Lionel to create this degree of interest it'll be disappointing if it's not a T-1.

 

Assuming however that it is I expect they'll re-use the existing tooling and that means it'll be the unskirted version, which is not my preference. This is the description of it in the Lionel archive:

 

Lionel’s 5511 model recreates the prototype late in its short life. Sometime after their delivery, Pennsy maintenance forces eliminated the streamlined skirting around the 5511’s cylinders and below the running boards. A supplemental headlight was also added to the front-end, requiring the relocation of the numbered Pennsylvania keystone. All these features, in addition to accurate builders’ plates, train phone antenna and other rigging on the tender deck can be found in Lionel’s first issue of this historic locomotive.

 

Looking at the archive I'm reminded that Lionel also issued a 2 rail version. 

Fascinating thread with lots of great info.  Thanks for starting it, Eliot.

 

David

A T1 will be a great addition to the Legacy or better yet the VL offerings.

 

But, I'd rather they do a PRR Q1 or a Q2 in a VL....

 

I hope they eventually do all of duplexes with many steam effects. Lionel has to keep raising the VL bar in every release...IMHO

Personally, I'd like to see an original version N&W Class A (w/boiler tube pilot).

2nd the O48 on FasTrack.  Mine was the 1st version MTH made, the Protosound Premier.  Barely managing is key, it complained all the while, but it did it.  So I don't foresee any issue with it running O54, which is what I'm counting on for my layout.  Now I just need to figure out how to convert it to TMCC without using generic sounds.

Q1 mentioned above:

 

The Q1 4-6-4-4 always appealed to me; 3rd Rail made one, but I never bought one. Usually too much for a nice-to-have.

 

Which opens up another, totally never-gonna-happen idea: an MTH RK Imperial PRR Q1 for those of us who would like a substantial and accurate-enough model of the loco but don't want to put $1500 into it.

 

This would also apply to a resurrected Lionmaster line.

 

I prefer 1:48, but really well-presented RK (etc) pieces like the RK Triplex can fill a hole in your design "collection" while making a smaller hole in your wallet. But only if well-done.

 

OK, back on-topic. Sorry.

Since MTH sells Lionel Corporation tinplate, perhaps Lionel leased the tooling for a Q-2 and that is the Vision Line steamer. Wow ! I would be in.

I agree on all counts especially the last but try as I might I don't see a Lionel VL Q-1 in my crystal ball. As already mentioned in this thread 3rd Rail did one in brass some years back. It's a very nice engine and ultra-smooth runner but I think it took a while to sell out. Perhaps more importantly, as Lionel already has the tooling for one version of the T-1 the odds must be that if the next Lionel VL "product" is a PRR steamer the T-1 is the or at least a prime candidate. It might come second to the S-1 Duplex.

 

That's an interesting proposition but I wouldn't bet on Lionel producing any new steam loco tooling. Indeed after mulling it over I am not convinced that the new VL "product" is an engine at all but for diehard Pennsy fans I hope for the best.