Hi Folks,

The Vision Line UP BB minimum curve is O-72. Knowing this and not being concerned with the overhang appearance, would I be able to run this engine on O-60 curves?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Frank

Original Post

In his review, Eric Siegal/EricsTrains strongly encouraged users NOT to use anything less than 0-72.

 

If you look at several of the YouTube videos of the Big Boy running, I don't see how it can possibly run on 0-60.  Truthfully, 0-120ish (double 0-60) is still too tight for my taste.

 

And when it comes to anything UP related, accept Hot Water's words as gospel!!

Here is the BB sitting on O54 track.

 

 

IMG_1488

I was able to push it back and forth on it and it took it.  The tender on the other hand felt like it would climb out.  If it had any blind wheels, it might of made it fine.  As for the close coupling, I don't know if it'd of taken it.  I don't have anything in between O72 and O54.  It would not go on O48 so I didn't even try placing it on O36.

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Originally Posted by sinclair:

Here is the BB sitting on O54 track.

 

 

IMG_1488

I was able to push it back and forth on it and it took it.  The tender on the other hand felt like it would climb out.  If it had any blind wheels, it might of made it fine.  As for the close coupling, I don't know if it'd of taken it.  I don't have anything in between O72 and O54.  It would not go on O48 so I didn't even try placing it on O36.

Ouch!

Why you guys continually try to operate locomotives on tighter curves than shown in the catalog is beyond me. It's the minimum diameter (3R language) to keep the locomotive and tender from derailing.

 

Not trying to sound like a j..k. It also is a big surprise when it derails and won't operate on tight curves...HMMM...

 

There's 3 easy options:

 

1. Don't buy it if you don't have the minimum curve required.

2. Install the curves if you don't have the minimum diameter required.

3. Buy it and display.

 

"But, I don't have the room!" is the next post. Reality is harsh-Refer to #1 above.

 

Not trying to sound like an ###, so please don't take it personal. Black and white to me; you have the minimum curves or you don't: If you don't, then run smaller steamers.

 

Edited per J Daddy's and Laidoffsick's suggestions below. Thanks

 

 

The minimum curve's that are listed, are NOT based on  boiler overhang... they are minimums that the engine/tender needs to stay on the track without derailing. Looks has nothing to do with it. Overhang is a matter of taste and personal opinion.
Originally Posted by Laidoffsick:
The minimum curve's that are listed, are NOT based on  boiler overhang... they are minimums that the engine/tender needs to stay on the track without derailing. Looks has nothing to do with it. Overhang is a matter of taste and personal opinion.


EXACTLY!  Thanks for clarifying it, I only alluded to it in my post after rereading it.  Corrected above.

I'll have a loop of O72 just to run it on, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't play with my toys and see if it can go smaller.  I do that with all my locomotives.  My K-Line Big Boy is rated at O31 but it will run O27.  I have a MTH DL-109 rated at O42 and it runs O36.  The MTH PRR T-1 rated at O72 ran on my O48 loop, it didn't like it, but it did it.  Will I run any of them regularly on the smaller curves, doubt it, but it's nice to know what they can take for the future since you can never know what's going to happen.

When the vendors say 072 or 054 etc. they have tested many complex turnouts and radius combinations and select the radius that does not present issues.  In several cases on my simple layout, my engines run on a smaller radius than advertised. In one instance, the coupler wire pulled out and the coupler now does not open; however, it does not effect my layout operation.

Well, I have the JLC version and the tender does not fit on 60 inch curves.  I tried it years ago - it pops off the track quickly.  

 

I never tried to run the loco on 60.  I know that it "fits" (it will fit all its wheels and flanges on the rails) but I suspect it would de-rail every once in a while, anyway.

If you NEED to push the limits, you could always remove the outter axles on each end of the tender and push it along on some 060 curves.

 

If that is the biggest you can go, I wouldn't get one until you know for sure... $2k is a lot to gamble with. 

Originally Posted by winrose46:

When the vendors say 072 or 054 etc. they have tested many complex turnouts and radius combinations and select the radius that does not present issues.  In several cases on my simple layout, my engines run on a smaller radius than advertised. In one instance, the coupler wire pulled out and the coupler now does not open; however, it does not effect my layout operation.

This is true for all the major vendors. They rate an engine at the smallest radius they sell that it will run through a set of switches and S curves on.

This does not rule out a slightly smaller radius made by someone else that it will run on, but it gives you a point to go by.

It probably will not run on anything near the next tighter curve the engine vendor sells or they would have tweaked it to get that rating.

The only Sure way to know is to get someone that owns one to try it.

I expect getting someone to risk a New $2000 VL Big Boy is going to be a hard sell.

 

Bottom line Frank; Good Luck. O-60 is a lot tighter than O-72

Russell, Msgt, USAF, Ret. 

Maine 3 Railers

I just pushed the tender through some Fastrack O60 curves, it didn't actually jump the track, but it looked like it wanted to climb, and the effort to roll went way up over the O72 curves.  I have a hard time imagining that if it were running on an O60 loop that I wouldn't be dealing with regular derailments. 

 

My quick analysis is they knew what they were talking about with the O72 limitation.

 

It seems that a nice Lionmaster (and they are nice) BB would be the logical and tasteful

choice for smaller curves. A reasonable look involving a smaller loco would look far less

ridiculous than a huge BB MAYBE straining around those tiny curves. (Disney's "Fantasia";

hippos in tutu's; ballet)

 

But, most of these curve ratings are a tad conservative, I would think, for obvious reasons. Some are not. I have lots of big steamers from all the manufacturers. Some will manage

smaller curves, some will not, it seems. I've tried some on other layouts (I have 072 curves and GG 0-100 switches, so I don't really care). Also, we're not talking NASA-standards here, anyway. 

 

A friend with an 042 GG layout really, really wanted one of the scale Lionel USRA 2-6-6-2 Mallets when he saw mine. A big, but not huge loco. We tried it, and tried it...no go. Jumped the curves, and never mind about the switches.

 

He bought a Lionmaster Clinchfield Challenger instead. Looks great, right at home on

his layout. 

 

I have had quite a few Big Boys and, due to deconstruction of the Munoz Lines, passed on this version. Even with O-90 curves, the overhang was enormous. The Big Boy just doesn't look good on anything less than O-90. Even with O-90 it just looks out of place. 

 

We simply started to run smaller steamers. The articulateds ran, but simply seemed too big for the layout.

Well when the MFG.states what the minimum curves are I am sure they are not guessing at it.Just make sure your layout can accommodate the locomotive.If not,rebuild it.Nick

No such thing as over kill-do it RIGHT.                                                                                                                             

You're right, Berkshire, this thread was born almost a year ago when the VL BB was beginning delivery -  an oldie but goodie.

When this question was posed back then, I had both an 072 loop and an 060 loop so I tried it out.  The VL BB will run on 060 but it looks stupid (best word I could think of).  Forget about 060 switches.  Also the cab apron needs to be down.  It is listed as 072 for good reasons.

Dan

In order to answer your question, Frank, I will post this picture of my VL BB on tubular O54 track.  It sweeps the country side and looks terrible doing it, but I don't care.  I never realized there were so many rules and obligations to owning this engine, I was just enjoying running it.  It has not derailed, and I've run it a lot.  I've really enjoyed running it and feel like it was money well spent.  One of these days I'll build a bigger layout, but I'm enjoying it now, not some unforeseen time in the future.  My intention posting this, which I was very reluctant to do, was to provide you with, hopefully, some helpful information.  It is based on my personal experience of running this engine for a year now.  After all, they are just toys, more sophisticated and expensive than what we grew up with, but still toys.  Enjoy,

James

 

 

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Since this time last year, I got a table built.  Still need to come up with a track plan, but at least the base is there.  I have a loop of O72 on it and had my VL BB pulling 10 reefers flying along it at full throttle.  It never left the track, and what a sight to see and hear.

On a side note, the 1st time my dad was over and I was showing it to him, he shouted out, "watch out, it's broken" when it went into the curve because of how the boiler didn't follow the front engine.  I then got to explain to him out they work.

I run my Legacy BigBoy on O-72 curves.I think the "obnoxious"boiler over hang looks cool.Its all in your perspective IMO.Nick

No such thing as over kill-do it RIGHT.                                                                                                                             

Because .... sometimes you just really want something.  And, are willing to make some sacrifices to get it.
 
Lionel's minimum requirements were sometimes based on tubular track, but the engine would run fine on the next smaller diameter FasTrack.
 
I had a 3rd Rail Y6b that would negotiate my less than minimum Atlas curves, but not the switches. So, I was able to run this engine around my layout perimeter, using wider switches elsewhere.
 
Scott at 3rd Rail helped me with this info before I had the engine shipped to me. Its also valid to ask the questions here, to get real world experiences from forum members.
 
86TA355SR posted:

Why you guys continually try to operate locomotives on tighter curves than shown in the catalog is beyond me. It's the minimum diameter (3R language) to keep the locomotive and tender from derailing.

 

Not trying to sound like a j..k. It also is a big surprise when it derails and won't operate on tight curves...HMMM...

 

There's 3 easy options:

 

1. Don't buy it if you don't have the minimum curve required.

2. Install the curves if you don't have the minimum diameter required.

3. Buy it and display.

 

"But, I don't have the room!" is the next post. Reality is harsh-Refer to #1 above.

 

Not trying to sound like an ###, so please don't take it personal. Black and white to me; you have the minimum curves or you don't: If you don't, then run smaller steamers.

 

Edited per J Daddy's and Laidoffsick's suggestions below. Thanks

 

 

 

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