Visionline AT&SF 3000 Help

It seems the one variable in your setup is that you moved. If everything was working well before. I'd check to make sure you you have the base plugged into a properly grounded outlet.

All VisionLine engines respond to engin 99. Try that to see if it starts up. I suppose your using the Legacy Cab 2 System.  Older TMCC engines were programmed eng 1.  Good Luck...

leapinlarry posted:

All VisionLine engines respond to engin 99. Try that to see if it starts up. I suppose your using the Legacy Cab 2 System.  Older TMCC engines were programmed eng 1.  Good Luck...

Thanks for the advice.... I just tried your suggestion of addressing it using engine 99, and it pretty much had the same outcome.... meaning, all of the number lights for the engine and tender lit up when I powered up the track.  Then when I addressed the engine with 99, it whistled to confirm the address, and then the tender started making its "at rest" sounds, but still the engine would not move.  The only difference this time (by using engine 99 to address) is that the cab light of the engine kept blinking on and off every second or so... and not the 5 error blinks.... it just kept blinking on and off the entire time I had it powered up (which was only for about 2 minutes).  Hmmmm.

Wow, it’s sure beginning to sound like a signal issue.  Do you have a Cab 1 base and remote? If so, hook that up and leave your legacy system off completely.  That’s what I do on my layout, this narrows down the problem.

leapinlarry posted:

Wow, it’s sure beginning to sound like a signal issue.  Do you have a Cab 1 base and remote? If so, hook that up and leave your legacy system off completely.  That’s what I do on my layout, this narrows down the problem.

I do not own the Cab 1 system, so I can't check.... but since I was able to run the VL Big Boy and the VL EVO, I wouldn't think it was a Legacy Base and Cab 2 issue... but to your point, I guess maybe it could be a connectivity issue with the VL AT&SF 3000.  But it's odd that I seem to be connecting with the AT&SF tender, just not the engine.

Hi,seeing your having problems with the Gevo and Big Boy engines,I would get them operating the way they should first before adding the ATSF engine into the mix. Did the fastrack terminal section have the red and black terminals on the end of the wire,if not you may have the wires backwards on the powermaster going to the track. I'm sure you have the wire from the Legacy base to the U terminal on the PowerMaster?

Doug

My guess is if two engines didn't reverse before and the third won't work now you have a track/wiring/legacy issue. I would disconnect everything and try with one piece of straight track. Don't recall, does the remote have fresh new batteries? Do they run fine conventionally? If all three engines hum something is amiss. I've never wired like this, are both bricks in phase?

Another thing to check is the infa red signal between the engine and the tender.  Make sure they are aligned  and clean with one another. 

The cab flashing indicates a possible motor or drive train failure if it's truly approximately 1 blink per second continuous.

1) Check your ground

2) Check your Legacy base/battery condition

3) Make certain the track is spotless and there are no ground plane issues. Ground plane issues are insidious !!

If you have a problem with one loco, that is one direction but since there are several problems, the issue is like to be your outlet or your base.

trnluvr posted:

Hi,seeing your having problems with the Gevo and Big Boy engines,I would get them operating the way they should first before adding the ATSF engine into the mix. Did the fastrack terminal section have the red and black terminals on the end of the wire,if not you may have the wires backwards on the powermaster going to the track. I'm sure you have the wire from the Legacy base to the U terminal on the PowerMaster?

Doug

Thanks for the reply.  Yes, the Fastrack terminal sections have the red and black designations, so I am pretty sure that is correct.  I am not at home right now, but I believe red is the middle rail and black is the outer rail. As for the connection to the Legacy base, I do not have the connection going directly from the legacy base to the U terminal of the Powermaster.  Instead, I have a second terminal section of Fastrack in my loop that only has the black wire connected to the Legacy base.  So in each track loop, I have one terminal section that connects to the Powermaster and one terminal section (only the black wire) that connects to the Legacy base to complete the circuit.

BobbyD posted:

My guess is if two engines didn't reverse before and the third won't work now you have a track/wiring/legacy issue. I would disconnect everything and try with one piece of straight track. Don't recall, does the remote have fresh new batteries? Do they run fine conventionally? If all three engines hum something is amiss. I've never wired like this, are both bricks in phase?

I am not home right now, but I do like your suggestion about possibly just trying a simple section of straight track to see if that changes anything, so maybe I can try that tonight.  I went to the local Batteries and Bulbs store and they sold me 3 fresh, pre-charged 2500 1.2v batteries for the Cab 2, so I don't think batteries are the issue.  I haven't tried to run anything conventionally yet to know whether there is an issue there or not.  As for the Powerhouses being in phase, how would I check that?  Thanks for the help!

prh2j posted:

 As for the Powerhouses being in phase, how would I check that?  Thanks for the help!

With both Powerhouses/Powermasters on at the same voltage (18volts is the output?) measure with your meter between the center rails of each loop. If they are in phase there will be 0 voltage reading on your volt meter and if they are out of phase at 18 volts each the meter will read about 36 volts. A picture of your wiring?

Unfortunately, this takes me back to my initial experience with the ATSF 3000, which led to it being sent to a real expert, Alex M, for servicing. I bought this engine in the secondary market aware that it had been returned for service to Lionel (I was told it was fixed).

I hasten to say that it works now although there is still an annoying buzz from the electronics when the sound system is not running, which is a problem with other early Legacy engines and is a lot less than before I sent it to Alex.

This model turned out to have (a) a faulty RUN/PGM switch, which might account for your inability to get it to take a new engine ID, and (b) another electronic component relating to the IR link between engine and tender, which was overheating and not functioning. Aside from this, the engine would not roll at all when I first got it and I got the main drive fault series of cab blinks. I checked the main driveshaft (under the middle of the engine) and it had RUST on it despite being plated in some reflective metal. I had to roll the engine back and forth by hand to free up the drive mechanism and I made sure the gearbox and running gear were lubed.

All this sounds like it has something in common with your situation. This engine has back drivable gears so you can try rolling it by hand back and forth on the track to free up the drive mechanism if applying power will not do the trick. Also see if possibly your RUN/PGM with got installed wrong way round by reversing which way it is set when you try and program the engine.

And please post the result of your effort because it always helps to have any feedback with this kind of (seriously annoying) issue.

MartyE posted:

The cab flashing indicates a possible motor or drive train failure if it's truly approximately 1 blink per second continuous.

I think it only did the 1 blink per second when I tried to address it as engine 99.  I will try to address it as engine 1 tonight when I get home to see if it does the continuous blink again.  I appreciate the insight.

Hancock52 posted:

Unfortunately, this takes me back to my initial experience with the ATSF 3000, which led to it being sent to a real expert, Alex M, for servicing. I bought this engine in the secondary market aware that it had been returned for service to Lionel (I was told it was fixed).

I hasten to say that it works now although there is still an annoying buzz from the electronics when the sound system is not running, which is a problem with other early Legacy engines and is a lot less than before I sent it to Alex.

This model turned out to have (a) a faulty RUN/PGM switch, which might account for your inability to get it to take a new engine ID, and (b) another electronic component relating to the IR link between engine and tender, which was overheating and not functioning. Aside from this, the engine would not roll at all when I first got it and I got the main drive fault series of cab blinks. I checked the main driveshaft (under the middle of the engine) and it had RUST on it despite being plated in some reflective metal. I had to roll the engine back and forth by hand to free up the drive mechanism and I made sure the gearbox and running gear were lubed.

All this sounds like it has something in common with your situation. This engine has back drivable gears so you can try rolling it by hand back and forth on the track to free up the drive mechanism if applying power will not do the trick. Also see if possibly your RUN/PGM with got installed wrong way round by reversing which way it is set when you try and program the engine.

And please post the result of your effort because it always helps to have any feedback with this kind of (seriously annoying) issue.

 

 

Wow, so I am sad to hear that you had issues with your VL AT&SF 3000 at the outset, but I appreciate you sharing your experience since some of the symptoms sound very similar to mine.  I can't speak to the motor inside the engine, but I am able to easily move the engine and tender forward and backward on the Fastrack with no binding or resistance.  So that's good news I guess.  I will also try to recommendation about the RUN/PGM switch just in case it may have been installed bacwards.  Doesn't hurt to try.  Thanks for sharing!

 A couple of questions.

 Are the 2 loops connected in anyway trackage wise ?  From what I'm reading they aren't and only share the Legacy Base and they have separate power supplies.

 If you are running command for these engines. You can hook the 180 bricks right to the track for testing for now. The powermasters are not needed.

 The Big Boy and the EVO ran properly before. Do all other functions work and they just don't reverse ?

 I never liked the combination rocker switch for directional changing, boost and brake. Seems like a weak link in the remote. If everything is working except the direction change. Try spinning the wheel quickly counterclockwise after you bring the engine to a stop. This will also reverse it. The manual explains how.

 As far as the infrared tether. The engine should function normally without the tender being on the track as far as running and programming.

Thanks for your sympathy about my ATSF 3000 but apart from the buzz it all works as it should now (on a Fastrak layout powered by a ZW-C with two power bricks). I should have added in my initial response that all of the special VL features of this engine (blowdown smoke, swinging bell, crew talk etc.) worked right out of the box - it just made a loud noise and would not move! And the dreaded cab light flashes came up quickly. That however disappeared when I manually freed up the drive train.

Looking again at your posts, I am unsure whether the other two VL engines you mention are now operating as they should or not. (I have those too and neither has ever exhibited the symptoms you describe, especially the buzzing noise.) If they are not working, on reflection it strikes me that, as others have said, you may have a wiring/ground plane issue. I've avoided using Powermasters because the standard transformer setup I have is fine for Legacy operation (and the occasional test I do in conventional mode) so I can't comment on those but the way you have hooked up the common connection for Legacy seems a little odd. I'd do it by the book and see whether that makes a difference. Setting up a small section of test track with a standard Legacy connection is a very good idea.

I assume that you know the simple test for ground plane issues is to hold your hand right above the engine when trying to address it and see if it responds as it should. After we had some new house wiring done to add some outside LED lighting, I found that the circuit in the adjoining room caused ground plane issues and had to move the layout elsewhere. 

Again, please post your solution or the lack of one for the benefit of the virtual library on specific engine/wiring issues.

Dave_C posted:

 A couple of questions.

 Are the 2 loops connected in anyway trackage wise ?  From what I'm reading they aren't and only share the Legacy Base and they have separate power supplies.

 If you are running command for these engines. You can hook the 180 bricks right to the track for testing for now. The powermasters are not needed.

 The Big Boy and the EVO ran properly before. Do all other functions work and they just don't reverse ?

 I never liked the combination rocker switch for directional changing, boost and brake. Seems like a weak link in the remote. If everything is working except the direction change. Try spinning the wheel quickly counterclockwise after you bring the engine to a stop. This will also reverse it. The manual explains how.

 As far as the infrared tether. The engine should function normally without the tender being on the track as far as running and programming.

 

Dave.. thanks for the reply.   Here are my answers to your questions.

Correct, my two loops are not connected track wise and yes, the loops have separate 180W Powerhouse power supplies.... the only connection of the two loops in any way is by the black wire that connects each loop separately to the Legacy base.  (I plan to try to post a picture of my wiring setup in a separate post later this morning as it might help others find my issue.) 

As for connecting the 180W Powerhouses directly to the track as opposed to going through the Powermasters, I don't think I can do that right away since the powerhouse has the special connector on the end of it, and thus I don't a way to connect it to the Fastrack.   (I also live about 90 minutes from a Lionel dealer, so not something I could probably get too easily right now.)

Correct.... all other functions of the Big Boy and EVO seem to work, they just won't reverse.  The only other time I had the directional reversing problem with the EVO was before I moved, and I found a very slight break in the Fastrack, that, once I secured the fit all of the way around the loop, the directional reversing function worked correctly.  However, I don't see any breaks in either the O-84 or O-96 Fastrack loops, and the Fastrack is all newly purchased.