VisionLine Challengers

Shawn,

Thank you for clarifying your statement.  I am old and feeble and sometimes get confused.  Since I get confused, an organized video comparing the original sounds of the current run of Vision Line Challengers to the new and improved sounds of the service update would be helpful.

I know what that Challenger should sound like, if my first Vision Line Challenger was correct.  That being said, then Lionel should have known what a Vision Line Challenger should sound like.  So why are we having to take this action?

I just want to verify that the sounds will change, and that is worth getting the engine scratched up during the repair.

Sincerely, John Rowlen,

Charter Member, Old and Feeble Model Railroaders of America

I put both the original Lionel 6-11210 Vision Line Challenger #3967 and the newest 1931250 Vision Line Greyhound Challenger #3977 on my layout and ran them past each other so the #3967 articulated sounds could be compared to the current sound in the new Vision Line #3977.

The newest Lionel 1931259 Challenger #3977 can be heard first, then the older VL articulated #3967.  Both Challengers appear to be the same height.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Rowlen posted:

I put both the original Lionel 6-11410 Vision Line Challenger #3967 and the newest 1931250 Vision Line Greyhound Challenger #3977 on my layout and ran them past each other so the #3967 articulated sounds could be compared to the current sound in the new Vision Line #3977.

The newest Lionel 1931259 Challenger #3977 can be heard first, then the older VL articulated #3967.  Both Challengers appear to be the same height.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I don’t hear any difference. 

romiller49 posted:

John Rowlen posted:

I put both the original Lionel 6-11410 Vision Line Challenger #3967 and the newest 1931250 Vision Line Greyhound Challenger #3977 on my layout and ran them past each other so the #3967 articulated sounds could be compared to the current sound in the new Vision Line #3977.

The newest Lionel 1931259 Challenger #3977 can be heard first, then the older VL articulated #3967.  Both Challengers appear to be the same height.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I don’t hear any difference. 

IMHO its not a very good comparison...

Rod,  You really don't hear the two-tone cadence of the articulated?

Shawn,  We work with what we have available.

Since these are both Lionel Vision Line Challengers, this is probably what Lionel has available too.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Rowlen posted:

Rod,  You really don't hear the two-tone cadence of the articulated?

Shawn,  We work with what we have available.

Since these are both Lionel Vision Line Challengers, this probably what Lionel has available too.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

That what I meant the 3977 being in the foreground overtook the the cadence of the correct chuff. Be better to run the 3977 completely by and then bring in the other challenger with the correct chuff.

Union Pacific Challenger #3967 in the "Valley of Bridges"

Vision Line articulated 6-11210 Challenger, Union Pacific #3967, pulls long freight past 1931250 UP Challenger 3977.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Hey John: who makes the blue and yellow Sante Fe E or F unit that appears in that video?

BTW:  I like the look of your train room!

Berkshire President,

The Santa Fe F3 #200 LABC is a Lionel Legacy from several years ago. 

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Rowlen posted:

Union Pacific Challenger #3967 in the "Valley of Bridges"

Vision Line articulated Challenger, Union Pacific #3967, pulls long freight past UP Challenger 3977.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Ok John. I heard it with the new video. Huge difference. That’s the sound I’d go for. Looks like a great layout. 

Shawn_Chronister posted:

John Rowlen posted:

Shawn,

I am serious in my thanks to Dave Olsen for moving the pick-up rollers apart more on the new Big Boy Oil Burning Tender to accommodate my Atlas O #5 switches.  I have often not had pleasant things to say about the many repairs my new Lionel engines and passenger cars needed.

Praise when good things are done is as important as criticism, when bone-headed blunders occur.  At some point, and soon, I hope praise will be all I have to give Lionel.  But, and it's a big butt, I know the endless Chinese blunders are keeping me up at night.  I've invested big in Lionel engines, 21" passenger cars, etc. like many others.  The parade of issues is just unbelievable.  It must stop.

I can't wait to see my two Hudsons from Pat's Trains and Mr. Muffins.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I was not talking about the thanks I was talking about asking for a video they are fixing plenty of other have shown what it should sound like. I thanked him to for coming out and stating there was a problem at they are fixing it. I am pretty sure if you listen to WM challenger video from Charlie nassau those had the correct chuff its kind of tough to tell be cause of the way it was being run.

There are few more videos of the WM Challenger on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzhbzkbHSKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...10c.1565482006127339

sahan posted:

Shawn_Chronister posted:

John Rowlen posted:

Shawn,

I am serious in my thanks to Dave Olsen for moving the pick-up rollers apart more on the new Big Boy Oil Burning Tender to accommodate my Atlas O #5 switches.  I have often not had pleasant things to say about the many repairs my new Lionel engines and passenger cars needed.

Praise when good things are done is as important as criticism, when bone-headed blunders occur.  At some point, and soon, I hope praise will be all I have to give Lionel.  But, and it's a big butt, I know the endless Chinese blunders are keeping me up at night.  I've invested big in Lionel engines, 21" passenger cars, etc. like many others.  The parade of issues is just unbelievable.  It must stop.

I can't wait to see my two Hudsons from Pat's Trains and Mr. Muffins.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I was not talking about the thanks I was talking about asking for a video they are fixing plenty of other have shown what it should sound like. I thanked him to for coming out and stating there was a problem at they are fixing it. I am pretty sure if you listen to WM challenger video from Charlie nassau those had the correct chuff its kind of tough to tell be cause of the way it was being run.

There are few more videos of the WM Challenger on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzhbzkbHSKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...10c.1565482006127339

That would explain why he ran it all goofy trying to make it sound like it had it so he could sell them.

After comparing my Lionel 6-11210 Vision Line Challenger to the 1931250 new Vision Line Challenger #3977, I see no reason the articulated sound, un-sync drivers can't be added to the new Challengers. 

I don't understand why Lionel chose to manufacture the new Challengers the way they did.  It is not the first time they made a Vision Line Challenger.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Rowlen posted:

After comparing my Lionel 6-11210 Vision Line Challenger to the 1931250 new Vision Line Challenger #3977, I see no reason the articulated sound, un-sync drivers can't be added to the new Challengers. 

I don't understand why Lionel chose to manufacture the new Challengers the way they did.  It is not the first time they made a Vision Line Challenger.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

You do realize none of the scale Lionel Challengers (nor any other of their scale articulated steamers) actually go in and out of sync with the front and rear engines, that it's electronic wizardry? Same with scale MTH and Sunset/3rd rail that I know of. Much prefer the artificial 4 chuffs going to 8 chuffs then back to 4 chuffs articulated chuffing than having it fixed at 4 chuffs.

Bobby D,

I did not know that.  I do know the two chuff sound chuffs, as currently released by Lionel, sound more like my FEF-3 steam 4-8-4, than the earlier Lionel 6-11210 Vision Line Challenger #3967 steam 4-6-6-4.  Shouldn't technology be moving the sound systems forward toward greater realism?  $2,000.00 is a lot of money for something that is not quite right.  A half way effort should have a half-off price.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

At the end of the day, I expect this loco to sound like my JLC Legacy Big Boy and the first VL Challenger.  I don't want it to sound like my 844 or my TMCC Mallet that was only "two chuffs".

I doesn't even matter what is technically correct, per se....although that is certainly important.  What does matter is this model be DIFFERENT sounding than most of my non-articulated steamers. 

Personally, I like the sound "offset" below speed step 14 or so.

Tested new Challenger tonight. Great looking engine - runs really well and I am happy with the sounds.   Smoke is excellent, especially the generator smoke.  

😎

Harold

My Challengers were sent to Lionel two weeks ago to add the Articulated sound.   They originally said maybe three weeks in the shop.    Fingers crossed they come home soon.    

hclarke posted:

Tested new Challenger tonight. Great looking engine - runs really well and I am happy with the sounds.   Smoke is excellent, especially the generator smoke.  

😎

Harold

 

Tested mine out as well over the weekend on a 89 car reefer train.  Enjoy.  

jeremy ferrell posted:

Tested mine out as well over the weekend on a 89 car reefer train.  Enjoy.  

...holy cow...   

Mark in Oregon