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Hi, All. As I introduced myself in the electrical forum, I’m a life time 3 Railer, long time forum lurker, and recently joined the board.

I’ve had Lionel layouts since I was 7 and actually have my first 027 train set yet.  My last layout was a 25’x15’ basement layout back in 2006 – a double mainline with a branch line and a small yard on each end to do some switching when I wasn’t loop running.  The layout was focused on the branch line, “Valley Junction,” which is a fictional town somewhere in central-ish PA.  The mainline that passes thru is of course the PRR. Thus “VJ&P”, which also happens to be my initials.  The PRR double mainline were the outer most loops.  I could switch cars from the mainline to the VJ branch line and deliver them to the local industries.  There were 2 smaller loops in Valley Junction so I could let 4 engines in total run amuck on their own.  The entire layout was conventional engines with old school blocks.

I had laid the track and got thru most of the power wiring and started with some signals and accessories but as life would have it, I had to stop and tear everything down.  I moved from PA to NC at that time. I kept everything in storage for years but never had the time or space to get back into it.  I sold most of it except for a few pieces.

Fast forward to a couple of months ago, and 2 things happened:  My wife surprised me on our anniversary with a Pennsy Flyer LionChief set and we made the decision to build a new home.  I don’t think she realized what she unleashed when she got me the Pennsy Flyer  :-D   I realized how much I missed it.  And since we made the decision to build, we’re adding a bonus room above the garage specifically for a new iteration of the VJ&P.  Stairs will come up in the middle of the room so the layout can run around the perimeter, most likely with one or 2 peninsulas. We’ll build in lighting, ventilation, and a few other things to tailor it specifically for a model RR.

But I’m getting ahead of myself. I won’t start designing the new layout until we lock in the plans with the architect so I know the room size and shape.  It will definitely be a new version of the VJ&P with focus on Valley Junction and Pennsy passing through.

In the present, I’m working on finalizing a small layout.  The goal is specifically to start learning about Lionel Legacy and all the cool new technology for the hobby that has come around in the past 10 – 15 years.  I’m not concerned about prototypical operations or scenery.  I’m starting out with a couple of “boring” loops and sidings so I can figure out how all the new tech works with the intent of applying everything I learn to the future 35’x25’ layout in the next year or 2.

That said, I’ve attached what I’ve been working on.  I’m new to SCARM, and Fastrack, so please excuse the rookie mistakes and gaps in the design.  Since the new layout will be a few years away, I wanted the 072 outer loop so I can purchase a big engine or two and begin to build my collection again.  I originally had 048 curves for the inner loop and outer loop passing siding, but @SteveH is a bit of an instigator and made me rethink what I was doing.  In the same space, I can use 060 curves which will allow me to run engines with a min 054 requirement.  I added a reverse loop and a few sidings.  I have a couple conventional control engines but decided to added an elevated loop to run them.  The double loop layout will be all Legacy control.

Again, this layout is a learning exercise for setting up and getting familiar with all the new tech.  The track plan itself isn’t the priority but I wanted to be able to run a couple engines and have some on table storage.  I’ve started a discussion about the wiring and power set up in the electrical forum but wanted to introduce myself and share what I’m working on as far as the track plan goes.

Any feedback on the layout or tips for using SCARM are welcome.

One initial question about Lionel Fastrack...  I understand it doesn’t have as much “give” as the old tubular track which you could fudge and shift stretches of it to put everything together.   How unyielding is Fastrack? In my plans, I have lots of the tiny connector sections and also areas where I couldn’t quite get SCARM to connect pieces.  In the real world, will I be able to pull the gaps close or do I really need to have the exact combination of pieces?

Thanks in advance for the input and discussion. And thanks to all of you who have been posting in my other thread.  Looking forward to getting to know everyone.

- Vin

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Last edited by VJandP
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There is unfortunately no answer to "how unyielding is Fastrack".  Even with computer software, different settings in the program will produce different "fit".

A few other points:

The bigger the loop you are trying to connect, the more you will be able to fudge.

Fastrack cannot be pushed together any tighter than its actual length

There is very often a way to make things fit better by using many sections with different lengths of straight between different radii of curves, etc.  This gets inconvenient and expensive!

Vin, thanks for sharing more about your goals.   I essentially agree with LongHair's comments about fudging FasTrack, it depends.  For this size layout, to connect tracks in the real world, it's possible to make the joints fairly tight compared to what SCARM might indicate as one or two instances of +or - 1/8" discrepancies lengthwise.

When making tracks align in SCARM laterally and angularly, I prefer to find combinations that result in near perfect alignment.  Especially when working with different curve diameters in the same plan, trying different combinations of lengths and curve angles eventually results in alignment.

This all translates to SCARM settings as: Settings - Edit - Tolerances: Distance 0.15", Angle ~2.5 degrees

Something I use that speeds up this process is the attached spreadsheet.  Here's a sampling of what it looks like:

Screenshot 2021-11-01 224121

As far as your revised plan, I've worked on it a bit to improve the alignment, the biggest changes were substituting O72 RH Switches in place of O60's at the crossover and adding missing 1-3/8" isolation pieces at some of the switches.  The rest is just alignment and clearance related.  Note that in the image below, I've turned on the Show Roadbed feature in SCARM settings.  This makes it more obvious when adjacent tracks are too close or overlapping.  That was the case with the right hand spur in the yard on the right, so I substituted a O60 curve for the O72 just before the bumper.

Double Loop w Reverse and Sidings V1alt

When working with SCARM, I found it's online help combined with experimentation to be the best ways to learn.

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Last edited by SteveH

@SteveH. Another huge thank you for your time and effort.  Now I know the tolerances can be adjusted and that there’s a “show roadbed” option.  Definitely good things to know.  The tweaked plan looks great.  I’m anxious to download it to my laptop and take a closer look.

@Long Hair Thank you for the Fastrack tips    That makes sense that the bigger the layout the more flooding there is. Similar to using tubular track    I can see how this will get inconvenient and expensive quickly! I’m sure there wouldn’t be anything more frustrating than being so close to finishing a section of track and being short a handful of odd pieces.  A sharp hack was my best friend when I laid the tubular track for my other layouts. LOL

Love this forum!

Vin, I too have gotten frustrated running out of track pieces when finalizing a layout.  Since then, I've patiently looked for good deals and ordered more than I think I'll need.  I'll use the extras eventually.

If you're interested, here's a link to my next major layout plan.  Working on it helped me to become very familiar with SCARM and get some great advice here on OGR.

@VJandP posted:

@SteveH. Another huge thank you for your time and effort.  Now I know the tolerances can be adjusted and that there’s a “show roadbed” option.  Definitely good things to know.  The tweaked plan looks great.  I’m anxious to download it to my laptop and take a closer look.

@Long Hair Thank you for the Fastrack tips    That makes sense that the bigger the layout the more flooding there is. Similar to using tubular track    I can see how this will get inconvenient and expensive quickly! I’m sure there wouldn’t be anything more frustrating than being so close to finishing a section of track and being short a handful of odd pieces.  A sharp hack was my best friend when I laid the tubular track for my other layouts. LOL

Love this forum!

If you're w/in driving distance of an LHS, buy some product and make friends with the owner. If you're a good customer, they may let you buy more track and extra fitment pieces than you will need and then let you return what you don't use for a refund or store credit.   

@SteveH posted:

Vin, I too have gotten frustrated running out of track pieces when finalizing a layout.  Since then, I've patiently looked for good deals and ordered more than I think I'll need.  I'll use the extras eventually.

If you're interested, here's a link to my next major layout plan.  Working on it helped me to become very familiar with SCARM and get some great advice here on OGR.

Your plans look great.  I'll definitely be looking for inspiration on the next layout.

I've already scored some decent deals on eBay.  Most recently an estate sale of 120+ pieces of fast track, looked to be mostly 10" straight, a bunch of 30" straight, and a bunch of various misc sized straight pieces.  With shipping, it works out to about $3 on average for a section with the smaller sections being offset by the 30" pieces and a turn out or 2.

I suddenly need more storage . . . 

@VJandP posted:

Your plans look great.  I'll definitely be looking for inspiration on the next layout.

I've already scored some decent deals on eBay.  Most recently an estate sale of 120+ pieces of fast track, looked to be mostly 10" straight, a bunch of 30" straight, and a bunch of various misc sized straight pieces.  With shipping, it works out to about $3 on average for a section with the smaller sections being offset by the 30" pieces and a turn out or 2.

I suddenly need more storage . . . 

Thanks Vin.  It's was also an exercise in figuring out ways of using every type of FasTrack pieces available all together in the same layout. 

Sharing an update.   The space in the garage I have is limited and there are some restrictions like the **** pull down ladder above.  The first layout I posted was intended to be a table on casters so it could be pushed out of the way.  Then I thought about doing an L shape around the area where the ladder would drop.

What I've attached here is a potential alternative.  Problem is that it gives me barely 24" to maneuver in front of the workbench.  And the other thing I don't like, with it being so close to the ladder (it would unfold less than 12' ahead of the siding area) a rogue tote could fall off the ladder, which has happened before.

Overall I like the plan but this permanent table layout won't quite fit the bill.

What I did take away from it though is that I'm loosing the outer 072 loop of the first plan to save some space.  Thinking about what I want to do - learning about Lionel Legacy and wiring - I can save the "big engines" for the future layout in the new house.  I don't need to do too much too quickly.   I'll try to keep the outer loop 060 and will drop down to 048 for the inner loop and maybe 036 to incorporate a small yard.

A 12'x8' table on casters so it can be shifted out of the way sounds daunting but right now it's my best option for a decent size and to accommodate the space needed for other activities in the garage.  Still thinking on it.  We'll see what the next track plan looks like and what I want to prioritize and what I want to give up in this "temporary" layout.

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I have less space than you, but I gave up on 072 curves when planning as well.  My mainline is 054 and sidings are 042.  I like the second plan better than the one you first posted.  Yes, we all have to work with obstacles.  We have the pool down ladder to the attic in our hallway.  It is a pain to use, and certainly messes with you for layout planning.

O-60 switches have an unusual geometry.  Going from the end with the switch stand, out through the curved side, is the equivalent of one O60 curve plus two 1-3/8" straight sections.  This can be seen in the attached image where a O60 curve plus the two 1-3/8" straights are overlaid on top of an O60 switch with its included stock half roadbed pieces attached.

O60 Curve and 1-375 stacked on O60 SW w-markup

To use a O60 switch within a basic loop, two 1-3/8" pieces need to be added into the loop symmetrically in 3 locations (shown in orange) for the loop to line up.

60 48 Loops L Shaped V1altb BACKUP

The green pieces were changed to make it all fit.  The blue pieces were added to allow independent power control (toggle switches or other) of the individual spurs.

The revised SCARM file is attached.

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Last edited by SteveH

@SteveH Thank you for tweaking the track plan.   I keep forgetting about the insulating pieces.  In my brain I keep thinking old school and that I’m going to replace the center rail pin with an insulating nylon pin.  :-/

Thank you everyone for your ongoing input!

I’m working on 2 more track plans that I’ll share hopefully this week.   I’m experimenting with plans that have smaller radius curves so I can do more with the inner loop and adding yards and sidings.  Also, I'm playing around with a layout that I remember from a Train Store I frequented as a boy.

So many options

FINALLY !     Between work and holiday activities, haven’t had much time to make any progress. I spent some time in the garage this past weekend building the table -  12’x8’, on casters so it can easily be scooted around.   Immediately became a storage shelf but half of the boxes are things that I purchased for the layout. The rest of it is going to find a home elsewhere in the garage.

I bought some gate handles that I’ll put on the sides to make it easier to grasp when moving.  Plenty of 45° braces at the top of the legs but I’m going to add an extra piece around the bottom above the casters for additional support. Once I drop the sound deadening board on… I’ll be ready for track!

Speaking of track, I still haven’t finalized a plan for the table. But, temporarily I will be putting a couple of loops on just so I can set up a few things and start getting the hang of all this new equipment.

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The below 2 pictures are some of my eBay acquisitions and an early Christmas gift to myself… the ZW-L     I’ve had pretty good luck finding a few items that I really wanted on eBay, I’ll share pictures and updates as I set things up.

The two acquisitions I‘m most excited about are 2 Conrail Lionmaster SD80MAC Diesels, #4100 and #4129.   One was still new in the box and the second was lightly used and well taken care of.   Ultimately I want to model 50s and 60s steam and diesel, but I had to have these Conrail locomotives. I grew up watching these blue behemoths pass through Erie, Pennsylvania streets.   Just taking them out of the box put a huge smile on my face. I can’t wait to fire them up, sound the horn, and watch the ditch lights flashing.

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This last pic is what started it all. My wife got this Pennsylvania Flyer set for me for our anniversary a couple of months ago. This totally rekindled my flame for the hobby. At one point I told her… I don’t think you realize what you’ve unleashed. I think she does now, sort of… LOL. Wait until we get into the new house and I get my hands on that bonus room.

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Last edited by VJandP

Updated pic of the table. I added some extra bracing on the legs. Also added some gate handles on each side to make it easy to grab and manipulate. For as big as the table is, it rolls pretty easily on the casters… so much so, I have to make sure I keep the wheels locked or it’ll coast by itself due to the slope of the garage floor.  

You can see I also added the sound deadening board and last but not least, the inaugural loop of track!    I used the wall wart to power up and run the Pennsylvania Flyer around it, and it did fine. I thought it would lose steam, no pun intended, when it got to the far end of the loop but it did fine without having an additional power run connected.  

With some of the discussion I’ve seen about Fastrack, I was expecting lots of echo and vibration and for the sound of the train on the track to be very loud.  I didn’t think it was bad at all.  Granted I’m in a large garage and only had a few cars hooked up…. We’ll see what it sounds like when I get a few more trains going.

One thing I’ve learned already, 072 curves take up space fast! Ultimately, if I was going to be limited to a smaller layout, I would definitely stick with 060 or 048 and lesser diameters.  But for now, this layout is all about catching up and learning. Looking forward to setting up a few more loops and firing up the ZW-L.



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I’m really concerned about the layout collecting dust and dirt.  Shouldn’t be too bad during the winter since we’re not doing a lot of yardwork and mowing the lawn. In a day or two, the cars will have a decent amount of dust buildup on them.  To help prevent this, I have a tarp that will go over the layout when not in use. I use bungee cords on the four corners to hold it down tightly. I’ll have to take everything off the tracks after each one but this will definitely help keep things clean.

Now I have to figure out what I want to do with all the rolling stock. I think I’m going to buy a dedicated cabinet, that’s hopefully a bit airtight, so I can put everything in rather than back in their individual boxes between runs.



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The layout looks great!  I like the handles on the side for moving it around the layout.  When I was a teenager, my layout was in our unfinished 1888 basement.  Quite dusty.  I covered the layout with a big sheet of plastic, and that kept it nearly dust free.  I had wondered if I would damage buildings and scenery putting the plastic on and off, but never had an issue.

Last edited by Mark Boyce
@VJandP posted:

I’m really concerned about the layout collecting dust and dirt.  Shouldn’t be too bad during the winter since we’re not doing a lot of yardwork and mowing the lawn. In a day or two, the cars will have a decent amount of dust buildup on them.  To help prevent this, I have a tarp that will go over the layout when not in use. I use bungee cords on the four corners to hold it down tightly. I’ll have to take everything off the tracks after each one but this will definitely help keep things clean.

Now I have to figure out what I want to do with all the rolling stock. I think I’m going to buy a dedicated cabinet, that’s hopefully a bit airtight, so I can put everything in rather than back in their individual boxes between runs.



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Looking Good.  All pics are now showing.  As far as storage, if you were to make all the lower braces at the same height and add more supports, some shelving down there could be a good place for additional storage, after the wiring for track and accessories is in place.

@SteveH posted:

Looking Good.  All pics are now showing.  As far as storage, if you were to make all the lower braces at the same height and add more supports, some shelving down there could be a good place for additional storage, after the wiring for track and accessories is in place.

That is a great idea!   I could run a couple of extra braces on the center legs and make shelves along one side. A simple curtain, maybe with Velcro, should be enough to keep the dust out so I wouldn’t have to deal with doors.  

Major milestone tonight. Inaugural operation of the ZW-L and the CAB1!

Programming the engines was straight forward.  I was able to access the features  like the electro couplers and boost/brake.

One of two issues I came across was that the TMCC F7 ran erratically at first.  It would surge ahead at full speed, slow, pause, surge …. Thanks to this forum and some previous reading I had done, I knew to disable the Odyssey speed control and adjust some other settings and it ran perfectly.

The other issue is that the smoke unit on the non-powered SD80MAC isn’t working.   I searched just now and someone else posted a few weeks ago that their SD80MAC wasn’t smoking.   I wonder if this was a common issue.   Looks like I’ll be replacing the smoke unit.  The working smoke unit in the powered engine works great and throws off a ton of smoke.

I’ll play with the engines for awhile and keep exploring the CAB1 for now.  I’d like to rework the track plan and start messing around with power blocks and some other wiring exercises.  8864178E-946B-40A9-89F6-5AEF309207CE1D95B313-0D9F-4426-A51B-04A7294592B7

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Found an inexpensive, sturdy storage option that required little effort to set up.  

A lateral filing cabinet cost me $60 from Facebook Marketplace.  A few more bucks for rubber liners for the drawers and I have someplace to store much of my rolling stock and engines.  This should keep them dust free, too.  And now everything is easily accessible.  Ideally something that has more shallow drawers and a few extra drawers would have been sweet but I can’t argue when the universe drops an opportunity in front of you  

He had a few of these cabinets and I think I’m going to grab another one since this one is working so well.  

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Last edited by VJandP
@VJandP posted:


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Enjoying your progress; here are a couple of thoughts, one of which may be too late...

Depending on how well the temperature and humidity in your space are regulated, the tarp may allow condensation to accumulate on the layout.

IMO, the 2x4 horizontal braces are overkill and create an obstruction; their location will make it very difficult to get under the layout for wiring and storage.  If they're really necessary for stability, I'd move them high enough to allow a person to slide under them. 

Please don't ask how I learned these things. 

@Mallard4468 posted:

Enjoying your progress; here are a couple of thoughts, one of which may be too late...

Depending on how well the temperature and humidity in your space are regulated, the tarp may allow condensation to accumulate on the layout.

IMO, the 2x4 horizontal braces are overkill and create an obstruction; their location will make it very difficult to get under the layout for wiring and storage.  If they're really necessary for stability, I'd move them high enough to allow a person to slide under them.

Please don't ask how I learned these things. 

Thanks for the feedback! Always appreciate input.

The garage is very well insulated and stays a constant 65° - 70° (a little cooler on cold winter days) all year with the help of ceiling fans. Humidity isn’t an issue but I do have a dehumidifier that we turn on when we have family functions in the garage during warmer summer months.

The leg bracing is necessary. The entire table is on casters so it can be easily moved and even with 45° braces, the legs needed little bit more support so they didn’t flex.  This is a temporary layout. I plan to run most of the wiring on top of the table so I can see it and experiment with it. Access underneath isn’t too important, though it will probably be filled up with some storage boxes.

The permanent layout out will also be taller than this to make access that much easier, too.  👍🏼

Last edited by VJandP

At first I wasn’t crazy about the CAB1 remote.   It felt weird not physically manipulating transformer handles to control everything.   Punching buttons was awkward.  A week or so later and it feels like 2nd nature.   Switching between engines isn’t bad at all.  I’m really enjoying it and can’t wait to start playing with advanced features like lash-ups and turnout controls.

Spent time on unboxing some rolling stock last night and had a fun run session even though it was just in loops. I need to get back to track planning and figure out how to incorporate a small yard and some other details on this temporary layout.



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Remember this is a temporary layout.  It'll probably last a year or two until the new bonus room is built. Once I know the dimensions of the new space I'll start designing but for now I'm learning. 

So far I've built the table, set up simple loops and powered them up.  The loops aren't connected.  I added a CAB1 system and have been learning and experimenting with that.

I finally got around to drafting up a new track plan.  This one has what I'll call a double mainline and a branch line which is also a yard run around.  I can loop 3 trains at once if I want or use the inner most loop for switching operations independently of the main lines.  The outside mainline has a passing siding and a 2 siding "yard" on the mainline where I can park engines.  The inner most loop has another 2 siding engine yard and sidings for rolling stock.    I decided to skip the reversing loop for now and focus on developing the wiring plans - adding blocks, turn out set up and operations, etc....

The only thing I don't like about the plan is how much space the outside passing siding takes.  I need to play with that a bit and see if I can tuck it in at all.  The other option is to skip it and add a little more elbow room to the inner loops and yards.

Any feedback or comments would be appreciated!

A few questions come to mind:

1) Turnout wiring.   I'm assuming that powering the track is literally plug and play and the turnouts will draw their power from the track.  I know there's an option to use a a separate power source for the mechanisms but that's optional, yes?  I read Lionel recommends the optional wiring with SC-2 so the switches are exposed to a constant 18V.  Is this really a long-term issue?

2) If I go with SC-2 for the turnouts, can I still use the remote switches or can I only use TMCC/Legacy command only?

3) The 1 3/8" pieces for the 072 turn outs - what's their function?  Are they for fitment only or am I supposed to use them as "insulated" pieces and yank out the connecting wire underneath? 

4) Final question (for now ) - anything special I should know about using a 22.5 Xing?  I'm thinking I would insulate the the 2 "legs" that are not part of the right of way.

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Learned a few things about Fastrack this week.

1) SCARM is a suggestion. I’ve played with the tolerances while designing track plans, used tips from the forum, and have tried multiple combinations to get everything to connect.   Once I hit the table and started snapping track together, I found Fastrack has more wiggle room than I anticipated.   I used way fewer 1.38” and 1.75” pieces than my plans had.  SCARM for me was best used to *estimate* how much real estate curves in particular would take up in a given space.

2) I also found that the Fastrack geometry came together fairly easily. Adding a double crossover between mainlines or incorporating a 22.5 Xing wasn’t difficult.  I used quite a few 4.5” pieces   I always wondered how Lionel came up with the straight lengths they have    They must have an algorithm that calculated what lengths could combine to create the most variations.

3) Laying out the track wasn’t as cumbersome as I thought it would be.   I laid out the pieces and was able to puzzle piece everything together quickly.

A few pics of the progress and my newest engine.  

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Last edited by VJandP

A few more lessons learned with Fastrack, turnouts edition ….

1) Overall, I really like the turnouts   Trains track well on them even in a few places where my table is uneven and the track flexes and twists a bit.  At first I balked at the price but given their performance and the built in command control, I’m happy with them.  It didn’t hurt that I purchased them online for only $86 each. That’s over $30 off of list.  Don’t know offhand what forum rules are in regards to posting about resources, but I’m glad to share if you message me.

2) The command control is sweet!   What awesome built in functionality. Controlling individual switches or an entire route is amazing. I’m having so much fun learning about all of this new-to-me technology and really enjoying it.

A few irks …

3) Those **** lanterns.  Blink and “pop goes the weasel”.  Was a little disappointed at how easily they come off.   I have a very fine paint brush, though a toothpick would work, that I used to dab a bit of Elmer’s glue just inside the lantern.  I figure Elmer’s glue is just strong enough to hold it together but won’t permanently bond it like Gorilla Glue.

4) Technology is love or hate.  Out of 12 switches, 2 seem to have bad control boards.   As always, thanks to this forum, I was able to do some reading about possible fixes. It works fine with the included remote control but I cannot get the two switches to go into program mode when holding the program button down.   On Monday I will have to contact Lionel for warranty replacement and hopefully that will turn around quickly. Ideally it would be great if they authorize me to go to a local shop to swap them but we will see. If anyone has experience with similar situation, let me know!

Last edited by VJandP

Some miscellaneous updates…

The passing siding for the outer loop is finished.  At some point in the near future it will be blocked off so I can power down any engines that might be sitting there. Also in this pic, you can see that the crossover between the outer and inner loop is complete.  On the innermost loop, the siding is temporary. I threw it on there because I had a manual 036 switch but eventually that straight section will be a series of turnouts for the inner yard.  You can see 2 10” straight pieces that are disconnected. That’s where the connection between the second and third loops will go.

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A close-up of where the connection between the second and third loops will go. There isn’t enough real estate on the table to add an opposing crossover. The switcher will have to move trains between the two loops using only this future connection.

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I decided to re-design the crossover from the outer loop to the yard. In one of my above pics you can see the siding wraps around and sits between the 2nd and 3rd loop. It just looks a little awkward.  I moved the turnout and crossing further down to the end of the table.  This way, I can incorporate another crossing over the 3rd loop so the siding will be in the center of the table with the rest of the yard. I think it will look better like that. I want someplace to park a larger engine with an 072 minimum curve requirement and not necessarily leave it on the passing siding.

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For this temporary layout, here's what I'm going with for now.  I have much of it completed except the multiple sidings.  I'll have to purchase some additional turn outs and a 2nd 22.5 Xing to finish the loops, but otherwise quite a bit is finished.  In the attached plans there are a few gaps / misalignments that I've taken care of on the layout itself.

This should give me plenty of operating opportunities and it looks to be a good "starter" layout to practice wiring up blocks and eventually creating a control panel.

So far it's been a great experience and fun using the command control.  Coming from all conventional controlled layouts, I was hesitant about the command control system at first, but it’s really great.  I ran 4 engines and managed to keep everything from crashing. 

The Fastrack turnouts seem to be sensitive to uneven areas on the table.  Where they're raised a bit, they loose power.  I'm assuming this might be from a loose pin connection.  Screwing them down has eliminated any issues.  This week, hopefully I can take care of the 2 turnouts with bad control boards (they won't go into program mode) and pick up the last few pieces to complete the outer loops and crossovers.



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@RSJB18 posted:

The layout has really come together. This should be a nice test bench to experiment. I like your storage solution. Might I suggest some low plastic trays to stack more cars per drawer?
The track plan should be fun to operate too.

Bob

Great idea!   I have some inexpensive Walmart totes that I’m storing track in.   Some of the smaller, shallow ones would be perfect to double storage space in each of the deep drawers.

Had time this weekend to work on the layout.   Track is pretty much finished.   I’ll add some additional sidings but it’s not a priority.  Plus, I don’t think I have much room to add any more.   Still have to return and swap the turn out that won’t program.

Didn’t think I would be able to have an entrance and exit crossover between the 2nd and 3rd loops but I was able to tuck the extra turnouts near the crossings.  

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Really like how the double crossover section came out.  The Fastrack geometry came together nicely.   This area is a scene that will carry over to the future layout where I’ll have a short line crossing a double mainline, though there will be additional turnouts to accommodate interchange switching.

If I was adding detail to this layout, the parallel sidings would be perfect for an engine maintenance facility.  

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Next I need to double check the wiring and program the new turnouts.   Hopefully I can do a few test runs tomorrow.  

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@VJandP posted:

Found an inexpensive, sturdy storage option that required little effort to set up.  

A lateral filing cabinet cost me $60 from Facebook Marketplace.  A few more bucks for rubber liners for the drawers and I have someplace to store much of my rolling stock and engines.  This should keep them dust free, too.  And now everything is easily accessible.  Ideally something that has more shallow drawers and a few extra drawers would have been sweet but I can’t argue when the universe drops an opportunity in front of you  

He had a few of these cabinets and I think I’m going to grab another one since this one is working so well.  

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Vin

Welcome to the Forum.....you have done a lot in the past 2 months.....I love your storage idea and look forward to your progress.

Peter

Today was a little frustrating.  Was hoping to have some trains running but electrical issues derailed those plans - pun intended.

Issue: Track power is erratic.  Engines will stall and the lanterns on the turnouts will go out.    

I think part of the issue are the turnout’s sensitivity to how level they’re laying which I’ve already noticed.   But now that I have the track Tetris’d together, the slight bows and humps are causing issues.   If I press down the road bed, that section will be ok.  I need to order more screws to fasten down a larger part of the layout.  But before screwing everything down ….

After doing some searching, I might have a power issue - too much load per channel.   The outer loop has 5 turnouts on track power.  The 2nd and 3rd loops each have 4. The 3rd loop also has 2 lighted bumpers. It might be in order to run a bus around the layout to distribute the power better.   I’m going to post in the electrical forum with some questions.

The other thing is that I noticed the ZW-L was humming.   Not sure if that has anything to do with anything or if it was there before, but it was really noticeable today. I swear sections of the track sounded like they were humming too but that could’ve been sound from a different source that I couldn’t localize.

Last edited by VJandP
@VJandP posted:

Today was a little frustrating.  Was hoping to have some trains running but electrical issues derailed those plans - pun intended.

Issue: Track power is erratic.  Engines will stall and the lanterns on the turnouts will go out.    

I think part of the issue are the turnout’s sensitivity to how level they’re laying which I’ve already noticed.   But now that I have the track Tetris’d together, the slight bows and humps are causing issues.   If I press down the road bed, that section will be ok.  I need to order more screws to fasten down a larger part of the layout.  But before screwing everything down ….

After doing some searching, I might have a power issue - too much load per channel.   The outer loop has 5 turnouts on track power.  The 2nd and 3rd loops each have 4. The 3rd loop also has 2 lighted bumpers. It might be in order to run a bus around the layout to distribute the power better.   I’m going to post in the electrical forum with some questions.

Vin, I empathize with your power issues.  Been there done that with FasTrack.  My first two recommendations would be to wire the switches directly with Aux Power and Ground.  The Second, sounds like you're already thinking this, add track feeders (hot and common) every 6-10 track pieces.

If you post on the electrical forum, I would suggest including your latest SCARM plan.

@SteveH posted:

Vin, I empathize with your power issues.  Been there done that with FasTrack.  My first two recommendations would be to wire the switches directly with Aux Power and Ground.  The Second, sounds like you're already thinking this, add track feeders (hot and common) every 6-10 track pieces.

If you post on the electrical forum, I would suggest including your latest SCARM plan.

Using a separate power source for the switches or just wiring them direct off the track power bus? Not an issue for me at the moment but thinking about the future when a dozen switches are in play.

There are 2 main reasons I prefer to have FasTrack switches wired on their own separate bus, powered at about 14 - 16 volts AC.  This allows a different track voltage (good for conventional and command).  The other reason for this electrical separation is that in addition to having TVS diodes installed in appropriate locations around the layout, keeping switches on a different bus helps protect the electronics inside them from the transient voltage spikes on the track power circuit caused by a derailment.

Last edited by SteveH

If anyone has links to a thread or a good guide on how to do this, it would be appreciated. All the searching I’m doing, there’s always opinions on what the best wway to do it is.

I am going to use one of the accessory channels on the ZW-L.  I’ll run that to a bus and from there to the turnouts. What gauge wire would be best to do this with?   Also, one video I watched said to only run a hot lead to the turnouts and use common ground through the track? Or do I need to do a hot and ground to eat turnout?

Last edited by VJandP
@GregK posted:

Using a separate power source for the switches or just wiring them direct off the track power bus? Not an issue for me at the moment but thinking about the future when a dozen switches are in play.

@GregK Like you, I was fine while there were only 5 turnouts.  Now I have 13 and things are getting a bit wonky.  Power delivery isn’t consistent.    It’s not just the turnouts, the overall performance of the layout decreased dramatically as I expanded it.  

@VJandP posted:

@GregK Like you, I was fine while there were only 5 turnouts.  Now I have 13 and things are getting a bit wonky.  Power delivery isn’t consistent.    It’s not just the turnouts, the overall performance of the layout decreased dramatically as I expanded it.  

My little 4x8 layout with 2 loops seems fine with only one track drop on each loop, but I’m still doing two on each loop just to be safe. Like the others said, just need feeders every so often. People also bend the center FasTrack pins to encourage better contact but you have a ton of track… I would think on a layout your size, 3-4 drops per loop would give you good coverage. But I’m no expert, just basing that on with the pros post here. 😊

@GregK posted:

My little 4x8 layout with 2 loops seems fine with only one track drop on each loop, but I’m still doing two on each loop just to be safe. Like the others said, just need feeders every so often. People also bend the center FasTrack pins to encourage better contact but you have a ton of track… I would think on a layout your size, 3-4 drops per loop would give you good coverage. But I’m no expert, just basing that on with the pros post here. 😊

Good call out on bending the pins. Every little bit helps, right?   I had read that somewhere also. I definitely need more drops to the track for starters.  How are you connecting wires to the track? Using the built-in terminals? Soldiering?

I just realized, the way my track plan is laid out, most of the straight sections on the loops are taken up by turnouts and crossovers. I don’t have many 10” straight sections with terminals to connect to. I’m gonna have to figure out a way how to attach power to curved sections, 5” straights or something else…

Dedicated turnout power bus wires' gauge will depend on the number of turnouts connected and the bus length.  If only a few switches, 18-16 gauge would be fine on a small layout with 18 gauge feeders.  For a larger layout I'd suggest 14 gauge bus wires with 18 gauge feeders.  Switch grounds should be tied to track common at the main distribution point near the transformer(s, and phased if more than one transformer).

Feeder wiring to the turnouts would be: Hot to Aux power terminal, Common to the power ground terminal.

Track Power can be connected to any piece of track by soldering to the rail tabs under the roadbed.  Track pieces with spade connection tabs include: Full curves, 10" and 1-3/8" straights.

Thanks, guys.  I didn’t realize the curved sections had terminals under them.   I think I’ll run a feeder to each “corner” of each loop - 4 drops per loop.  Maybe 2 more on the longer sides of the outermost loop.  I picked up the .001 spade connectors or whatever that size is, so I can make feeder wires w/ connectors.   For the future layout, I think I need to pick up some soldering skills.  

@SteveH Thanks for the detailed info. Hate to sound like a total newb, but can you break it down a little more for me?    After reading your input, here’s what I was going to do.  Let me know if I misinterpreted or there’s a better way …

For the turnouts, from an accessory channel [C] on the ZW-L, I was going to set the channel to 14 volts.   Since everything is being run off of the same transformer, I don’t think there will be any issues with phasing.   I’ll feed a hot wire and a ground to 2 separate bus bars.   Each turnout will be tapped into a hot and ground respectively on each bus bars.

When you mentioned “Switch grounds should be tied to track common at the main distribution point near the transformer…”, I wasn’t sure what you meant by the main distribution point.  Will the bus bars do the same thing?

@VJandP posted:
..“Switch grounds should be tied to track common at the main distribution point near the transformer…”, I wasn’t sure what you meant by the main distribution point.  Will the bus bars do the same thing?

Bus wires and bus bars are essentially the same thing electrically; a means of connecting more than one electrical load via a central current carrying apparatus (bus) to the power source.  In the case of grounds, they should all be tied together somewhere, typically at or near the transformer.

If you're planning for DCS then all power should be tied back to a central distribution hub that is fed by the transformer.  The latter is known as star wiring.  For more on that I would recommend reading the DCS Companion.

@VJandP posted:

@GregK As of right now, I do not have blocks though that is in the future. Do I need isolated blocks to run feeder wires around the loop?   Or is it OK to have multiple hot and grounds on the same continuous loop of track?

Isolated blocks are optional and depend on whether you'll be running DCS and/or conventional and other factors.  For what you're doing right now with your test track you could skip them for the time being.

Multiple feeders on the same block will help reduce the voltage drops you're experiencing.  But if you'll be running MTH DCS locomotives, there are limitations to the way feeders can be connected to track blocks without interfering with the DCS signal.

Last edited by SteveH

Invest in some good needle nose pliers. Helpful when slipping the spade connectors onto the track tabs. They make a really snug fit and are a good alternative to soldering but a bit of a pain to slide on. The little spade connectors work well tho. Slide a wire in and crimp it. Forms a good bond and I imagine it wouldn’t come apart under normal circumstances. I put a few together tonight from the ones I posted from eBay.

@SteveH posted:

Isolated blocks are optional and depend on whether you'll be running DCS and/or conventional and other factors.  For what you're doing right now with your test track you could skip them for the time being.

Multiple feeders on the same block will help reduce the voltage drops you're experiencing.  But if you'll be running MTH DCS locomotives, there are limitations to the way feeders can be connected to track blocks without interfering with the DCS signal.

Thanks, Steve.  As it turns out, the conventional engines are DC powered and will have to have their own dedicated loop or sit on the shelf for now.   I’ll wire some blocks on the test layout but primarily for sidings to park engines.  For now I’ll skip the block and get the power continuity and turnouts straightened out.  👍🏼

@GregK posted:

Invest in some good needle nose pliers. Helpful when slipping the spade connectors onto the track tabs. They make a really snug fit and are a good alternative to soldering but a bit of a pain to slide on. The little spade connectors work well tho. Slide a wire in and crimp it. Forms a good bond and I imagine it wouldn’t come apart under normal circumstances. I put a few together tonight from the ones I posted from eBay.

Great suggestion.   Really appreciate all of your input on my posts.   👍🏼

@VJandP posted:

Thanks, Steve.  As it turns out, the conventional engines are DC powered and will have to have their own dedicated loop or sit on the shelf for now.   I’ll wire some blocks on the test layout but primarily for sidings to park engines.  For now I’ll skip the block and get the power continuity and turnouts straightened out.  👍🏼

You can use those 1 3/8 fitter sections to wire the blocks. Put them at the beginning of the siding, and remove the jumper. Then wire a hot with an on/off switch to a tab on the siding. Easy enough but can consume a lot of extra wire with runs to the control panel. Unless you just place the on/off switch right at the block.

Haven’t made much progress on the layout itself but I have been able to get organized and prepare for the wiring extravaganza.

I didn’t have many electrical tools and supplies so I’ve been digging through what I have and ordering some new stuff.   I have a PC tool kit with extra small tool attachments that have been perfect for working with the turnouts.  I’ve built up a supply of wires, spade connectors and splurged for some new crimping tools and voltmeter. At some point I’ll start experimenting with a soldering iron as well.  Everything is laying out on the workbench for now until the new cabinet arrives next week.

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Speaking of the workbench, I was finally able to clear out some space to work.  Until I get the layout table organized again, the ZW-L will sit on the workbench Ultimately I think I need to buy a small transformer to keep there so I have something to power up and test things.  Not a fancy area but it will do for now.   The only other thing I’d really like to buy for this area is an antistatic mat.  I need to move the totes in the background and I’ll be able to shift the work area down. Speaking of those totes, part of the organizing I’ve done was to get all of my eBay Fasttrack purchases sorted.

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And, the layout itself… I’m ready to begin work on rewiring, adding direct power to the turnouts, and then finally mount the track to the tabletop with screws to help with the electrical connections.  I’m hoping this weekend I can at least get the outer loop set up. It’s been weeks since I’ve been able to run any trains.  We’re supposed to be hit with a really bad ice storm so we might lose power for part of the weekend. Fingers crossed that doesn’t happen and I have the better part of the weekend.

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If you run into any difficulty with your wire to wire connections (e.g, bus to feeder), consider the Wago lever connectors. You can buy an assorted pack on Amazon, for example, and they are excellent. I've done all my wiring with them so far, and it makes connecting (and re-connecting) everything a breeze.

@GregK posted:

If you run into any difficulty with your wire to wire connections (e.g, bus to feeder), consider the Wago lever connectors. You can buy an assorted pack on Amazon, for example, and they are excellent. I've done all my wiring with them so far, and it makes connecting (and re-connecting) everything a breeze.

I second the recommendation for using Wago lever nuts sized for 24 to 12 gauge wires.  They come in 3-way and 5 way connectors, allowing easy branching.Wago Lever Nuts



@VJandP the red and blue cylindrical crimp connectors you have pictured above are hit or miss for reliability with stranded wire, I don't use them anymore.

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Finally made some noteworthy progress.  The bus for the outer loop is complete and I was able to run trains for the first time in over a month.  A few hours here, a few hours there, drilling holes to drop feeders through the tabletop, drilling holes and tacking up wire ties to run the bus under the table… It all finally came together tonight.

I’m going to do something different with each loop to see which method I like the best. I’ll post some detailed feedback after I complete all 3 loops so I can compare and contrast everything. The outer loop that is up and running uses 2 (two) 25’ wires, one each for hot and common, with the feeders using a “clip-on splicer” attachment. The second loop I’m going to use the push together wire nuts. And on the third loop I’m going to do a bus with star wiring.

Having the right tools makes the job so much easier. The crimping tool and the voltmeter were especially helpful.

The outer loop is 12’ x 8‘ with a passing siding and has 12 feeders.  The other 2 loops don’t have as much track and won’t have as many feeders, so I’m hoping to work my way through them more quickly.

You may have seen my post in the electrical forum about the turnouts   Apparently I have a few units that may have been wired incorrectly from the factory.   Wiring them for direct power will require some rearranging and re-soldering of a few wires.   I don’t have the tools or the gumption to take that on right now so they’ll have to run off track power.   Once the track is rewired and then screwed down, hopefully there won’t be any erratic power issues with them.

I’m not going to mess around with block wiring just yet.  

An early birthday gift is coming (Mr Muffin custom run Erie Camelback)    so I’m looking forward to getting all three loops wwired and enjoying some run time.  

2nd loop up and running!   Granted there were fewer feeders but working with the wire nuts seem to go much more quickly.   Because I’m experimenting with different methods to wire, I skipped doing a common ground. Each loop will have a hot and common.

Also, I’m realizing the differences between working with stranded versus solid wire. Stranded is easier to run and manipulate but doesn’t work so well with the wire nuts.  I imagine the Wago lever nuts work better with stranded.

A weird issue came up with one of the turnouts.  It stopped responding to command control.  I swapped it with another turnout that was working but when I put the new turnout in that same position, it became unresponsive. And the first one that was not working, was working in its new location. It seems to be something with that location on the layout. Very weird considering I have multiple feeders to a common for that loop, which should help improve the signal, yes?   For now I will just wire the manual throw switch. I want to concentrate on getting the power up to the other loop and sidings and will troubleshoot later. If anyone has thoughts offhand, any feedback would be appreciated.

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The kids busy with friends, the wife pursuing her own hobbies, and a significant chunk of my honey-do list complete on Saturday (hung a ceiling fan, cleared some downed trees, bathed the dog, plus changed out the sister-in-law’s car battery), equals 6 glorious, guilt free hours working on the layout on Sunday.    

I have flicker free, stabile power to all 3 loops!  The outer loop and most of the middle were complete last weekend.  I tied up a few things (literally) on loop 2,  completed loop 3, and cleaned up some wiring.  The sidings are powered off their respective main lines for now.  Wiring blocks will be next.  

Loop 1

Hot and common bus wires run around the perimeter of the table.  Feeders for both hot and common dropped at 9 locations.  Spade connectors at the track were crimped to wires with male spade connectors that pushed into "clip on splicers” on the bus wires.  This loop felt like it took the longest to complete - probably due in part that it had the most feeds and crimping was tedious.   In this pic you can see some blue tracer wire.  I had an idea to twist different color tracer wire with the wiring for different loops to help differentiate them under the table.  

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Loop 2

Using push on “wire nuts,” loop 2 went fairly quickly.  The track feeders were dropped thru the table.  I worked my way around the table, cutting wire to size from feeder to feeder, using the wire nut to connect the run from the previous feeder, the current feeder, and a starting a lead to the next feeder.  This was done for both a hot and common.

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Loop 3

Bus bars, baby!  Track feeders dropped from their locations around the layout to a common corner of the table.  Wires cut to size and connected to a hot and common bus.

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What did I learn?

Crimping is tedious.  Even with the right tools it felt time consuming.  And with stranded wire, if the crimp wasn’t positioned just right, it would break leaving a dangling connection that had to be cut, stripped, and crimped again.

The wire nuts were awesome.  Since the wires only had to be stripped to push into the connector, the process went quicker.  Didn’t need the additional step of threading and crimping an intermediate connection.   I wish I had the Wago lever nuts.   The Insure connectors I had don’t work well with stranded wire so I used solid wire.   The solid wire was definitely more tricky to work with.  It was stubborn and took more fiddling to unroll, twist and bend it into position.

Overall I think I liked using the bus bars best.   For me it was easier to organize the wires and run them and it looks much neater.   It uses more wire but I’m OK with that.  Plus, the connections are more secure with fewer breaks.

I picked up a soldering iron that I’m anxious to practice with.  I can see the benefits of soldering a feeder wire from the track and running a single, continuous wire directly to the bus bar.  Fewer connections, a more durable connection at the track, and in my mind easier to organize.

With the buses and feeders in place, power delivery to the engines and switches has been flawless.  I’m so psyched I made it this far.

Next up, setting up block power on the sidings.  I have to decide if I’m going to do it with hard wiring and toggle switches or thru LCS.

I also have to decide how much troubleshooting I want to do with some of the switches.  There’s the command signal for a couple of them and there are some with incorrect factory wiring that prevents using a direct power feed instead of track power.  Now that track power has been sorted out, I’ll see how reliable it is over the next few weeks.

I have most of the LCS modules I need.  I’m waiting on the block power module and another ASC2 for the switches.  If I jump right into LCS, I can wire the blocks and by pass the switch issues.   The switch control should work with the switches that are responding to command control but until the STM1 feedback module is in place it won’t update switch position in LCS.   Once I start LCS setup, I’m feeling like it will be all or nothing.

In the mean time, the trains are running!  Just in time for my early birthday gift arriving this week … Mr Muffin custom run Erie Legacy Camelback  

All 3 loops running …

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@VJandP posted:

The kids busy with friends, the wife pursuing her own hobbies, and a significant chunk of my honey-do list complete on Saturday (hung a ceiling fan, cleared some downed trees, bathed the dog, plus changed out the sister-in-law’s car battery), equals 6 glorious, guilt free hours working on the layout on Sunday.    

I have flicker free, stabile power to all 3 loops!  The outer loop and most of the middle were complete last weekend.  I tied up a few things (literally) on loop 2,  completed loop 3, and cleaned up some wiring.  The sidings are powered off their respective main lines for now.  Wiring blocks will be next.  

Loop 1

Hot and common bus wires run around the perimeter of the table.  Feeders for both hot and common dropped at 9 locations.  Spade connectors at the track were crimped to wires with male spade connectors that pushed into "clip on splicers” on the bus wires.  This loop felt like it took the longest to complete - probably due in part that it had the most feeds and crimping was tedious.   In this pic you can see some blue tracer wire.  I had and idea to twist different color tracer wire with the wiring for different loops to help differentiate them under the table.  

743ED5E9-CEE0-4732-B7EF-EBCD0A4B7BED

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Loop 2

Using push on “wire nuts,” loop 2 went fairly quickly.  The track feeders were dropped thru the table.  I worked my way around the table, cutting wire to size from feeder to feeder, using the wire nut to connect the run from the previous feeder, the current feeder, and a starting a lead to the next feeder.  This was done for both a hot and common.

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Loop 3

Bus bars, baby!  Track feeders dropped from their locations around the layout to a common corner of the table.  Wires cut to size and connected to a hot and common bus.

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What did I learn?

Crimping is tedious.  Even with the right tools it felt time consuming.  And with stranded wire, if the crimp wasn’t positioned just right, it would break leaving a dangling connection that had to be cut, stripped, and crimped again.

The wire nuts were awesome.  Since the wires only had to be stripped to push into the connector, the process went quicker.  Didn’t need the additional step of threading and crimping an intermediate connection.   I wish I had the Wago lever nuts.   The Insure connectors I had don’t work well with stranded wire so I used solid wire.   The solid wire was definitely more tricky to work with.  It was stubborn and took more fiddling to unroll, twist and bend it into position.

Overall I think I like the using the bus bars best.   For me it was easier to organize the wires and run them and it looks much neater.   It uses more wire but I’m OK with that.  Plus, the connections are more secure with fewer breaks.

I picked up a soldering iron that I’m anxious to practice with.  I can see the benefits of soldering a feeder wire from the track and running a single, continuous wire directly to the bus bar.  Fewer connections, a more durable connection at the track, and in my mind easier to organize.

With the buses and feeders in place, power delivery to the engines and switches has been flawless.  I’m so psyched I made it this far.

Next up, setting up block power on the sidings.  I have to decide if I’m going to do it with hard wiring and toggle switches or thru LCS.

I also have to decide how much troubleshooting I want to do with some of the switches.  There’s the command signal for a couple of them and there are some with incorrect factory wiring that prevents using a direct power feed instead of track power.  Now that track power has been sorted out, I’ll see how reliable it is over the next few weeks.



Nice to see the use of 3 different connection methods in one post.  There has been a lot of discussion about the "best" method - your demonstration should help people understand the pros and cons of each.

Not much in the way of a layout update.  I’ve been enjoying running trains mostly, though I have been reading up on LCS and completed a side project or two.

I think I understand LCS enough that I can start setting it up.   I need to confirm that most of my switches have IDs assigned and hook everything up in the right order.   Before getting started, I have to figure out where to mount the modules.   Also, I’m not sure I want to use the block control.   Something about using traditional toggle switches is appealing.  I suppose I could do both.

Today I learned I hate soldering.  Not sure if it’s my technique or I’m not using the iron correctly but I had a helluva time soldering practice wires.  I did make the rookie mistake of heating the solder, not the metal.   Once I figured that out, things got better but I was still inconsistently hitting my target.  

I got good enough that I completed my first upgrade project.    I was able to add a diode to my 40 yr old DC engine and convert it to AC.   Felt good about that.  I had the diode backwards at first but luckily I used wire bullets to temporarily hold everything together while testing it.  Flipped the diode around, the test runs were successful, and buttoned everything up.

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First LCS module installed with no issues and it’s awesome!

I first took the time to test the switch tracks, sort out their IDs and set up the LCS app to be in sync with the switch IDs.  There are 4 switches that I haven’t programmed into LCS yet.  3 need an ID and 1 I’m having connectivity issues with and I think it might be another bad control board.  I have to sort it all out and possibly exchange a bad one.

Once the LCS app was set up, setting up the actual LCS WiFi module only took a few minutes.  It was literally plug and play.  The LCS WiFi module plugs into the CAB base via the data port and also has it’s own power cord.   I connected the iPad to the LionelXXXX WiFi and within a few minutes I was controlling the command switches from the iPad.

Next I need to program the remaining switches and add them.   After that I have the STM2 (switch throw monitor) to connect (monitors and ensures the switch position is accurate in the LCS app).  That will involve disconnecting the track to wire the STM2 leads to the switches.  While I have the switches up, I might connect some phone wire leads in case I want access the terminals later.  I still have some connectivity issues I mentioned earlier that affects 1 or 2 switches so I’ll consider installing the ASC2 switch throw module at some point.  But, if for some reason I have issues with assigning the remaining switches an ID, I’m not sure the the ASC or STM will work.   If they don’t work properly I should exchange them but I might just connect the original OEM toggles and keep those switches in a yard.

The LCS app is awesome for a layout overview and controlling the switches but it was a little cumbersome for controlling the engines. The Lionchief app felt more intuitive and was easier to use overall and gave you access to control individual volume settings for the horn, bell, etc.… I didn’t see where I could do that in the LCS app.   Also in the LCS app, I do not see where you could turn off or adjust the smoke volume.



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I made some minor progress today.  I slightly reconfigured the passing siding on the outer loop to incorporate 1 3/8” track sections. I also added a couple of extra feeders and tied them in to the main bus. This section of track is ready to be wired as a separate block.  I also drilled holes underneath the other sidings but did not drop any feeder wires off of them yet.

I’ve decided to go with toggle switches instead of using LCS to control power to the 6 blocks.  In tandem with that, I have to decide on how to arrange the toggles, a couple of LCS modules, and a few other things on a panel so it looks neat and is accessible.

I still have to mess around with the 3 or 4 switches to get them programmed or hook up the standard Lionel toggle switch. I need to do that sooner than later because I will want to incorporate the switches on the control panel, so I need to know how many to make room for.

The other thing I want to do is add uncoupler tracks to the sidings. Some of the eBay purchases included a section or two. They need to be tested to see if they work.   The standard Lionel buttons look a little big so I will probably want to consider an alternate switch/button and then include them in the control panel.  I’m open to suggestions if anyone has them.

Finally, today I reached a milestone. I have no more room to store rolling stock. 🤣 Soooooooo ……. I need to cool it with the eBay purchases and the trips to the local hobby shops. The two filing cabinets I purchased are filled up except for one drawer. That drawer has to be reserved for the engines I have on pre-order. Besides, until I get the bigger layout, I can’t even fit half of the rolling stock I have on the current layout at once.

Here’s a very brief video from today’s run session…

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@VJandP posted:
Besides, until I get the bigger layout, I can’t even fit half of the rolling stock I have on the current layout at once.

Here’s a very brief video from today’s run session…



I have a bigger layout, but I can't fit even a fraction of my locomotives and rolling stock on the layout, even with 500+ feet of track!   Tons of stuff I can't fit on the shelves, and my staging tracks are filling up.  There a ton of stuff still under the layout, in two closets, and on a bunch of shelves in the garage!

Don't stop now, keep visiting eBay.

Not much more space on the TT either.

  

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Time flies when life happens but the past couple of weekends I've finally been able to squeeze in some quality RR time.

A new Lionchief 2.0 + Pennsylvania RS-3 has been added to the fleet.  Neat engine. Love the features, power and quality for the price.  I've had some fun programming it and running it around the layout.

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Speaking of the layout, a few updates.    I decided that I don't want to pursue adding LCS for now so I disconnected the WiFi module.   In the long run, I'm leaning towards a hard button control panel(s).  The graphic interface on the iPad was nice and worked great but I want something more tactile and permanent.  It worked great but wasn't - forgive the pun - pushing my buttons.  For anyone interested, the modules are for sale.  Also, part of the reason was the difficulty dealing with a couple of switches that were not programming properly.  Trying to get the STM and the ASC2 modules to sync with a switch that I couldn't assign an ID to was frustrating.  I ended up connecting the factory toggle switches and have been enjoying those more than using the iPad.  And the factory toggles are reliable and easy to connect.

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It’s looking like a real railroad under there … 🤣🤣

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In the interest of time, I did a quick wiring job for the sidings. Ultimately I wanted a control panel and to have each siding individually controlled with a toggle switch.  For now, I opted to add a second bus terminal and power them all together from the 4th channel on the ZW-L.  This more than meets my needs for now.  I don't leave engines or rolling stock on the layout so no need to power a single siding at a time.  But I do have the option of cutting power to them.  Perfect for temporary storage of an engine during a run session or the ability to add rolling stock on an unpowered section and not accidentally cause a short.

The most time consuming exercise has been trying to design a layout for the ever-changing space in the new house.   First, the bonus space above the garage was going to have an entry point via stairs in the middle of the room.  I've had plans for an around the room layout based on my previous basement layout that I was refining for the new space.  Life changes . . . the bonus room needed to accommodate an office and extra bedroom in addition to my train space.   Now it only needs to accommodate an extra bedroom and the office space will be integrated into the train room.   

As the available space changed, the design had to change.  As the design changed, the purpose and story behind my RR has changed.  Larger room, larger freight trains with multiple engine lash ups.  Smaller room, smaller layout, a 30 car train would have the engine sniffing up its own caboose.  So instead of modeling loosely on a mainline, I started to focus on a branchline or shortline with some interchange switching and a few small industries to service.  The plans attached are mostly a "loop running" layout the formed from the original around the room layout.  There's a small interchange track / passing siding and room for a small yard in the lower right (didn't finalize a configure for the yard track and engine facility), but that's it.  The top most loop would have been a connected branchline by it's a stand alone loop now which is fine and gives me a space to run conventional engines.

If you're looking at the SCARM file, keep in mind I use SCARM to size up the real estate to see what will fit in a given space.  I'm not exact with perfectly connecting every piece of track.  On a larger layout there will be plenty of give to fudge the spacing and piece in the 1 3/4" and 1 3/8 track pieces".

I'm currently working on a design with less track and more room for industries.  It'll have at least one 072 minimum loop and the ability to run 3 trains at once but other than those requirements, I'm rethinking from scratch.  There will be a lower level with staging so I can keep as much rolling stock on the layout as possible.  The design will have entry and exit points for the lower level and possibly a reversing loop.  We'll see where it goes ...

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Vin, the RS3 is a nice looking engine.  I wired my switches to the DCS AIU and DZ1000 pushbutton switches.  I prefer using the pushbuttons even thought I got all the switches working via the hand held remote. 

Yes, it seems available space for a layout is often in a state of flux until the layout is built claiming the space.  Mine changed too.  The decision is ultimately yours whether you want a layout where there is a little more room for industrial tracks or using that space for another track for another train running.

Not much new… just running some diesels in circles. 😝

We’re supposed to meet with the architect and finalize the blueprints for the new house. Once that happens, and I know the space available for the new train room, I can start revamping my plans again.

Otherwise, I haven’t done much except enjoy running the trains. Have cleaned up some wiring. And of course watching lots of videos for scenery and industry ideas.

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Was it me that said that I don’t really have any more room to store new engines and rolling stock?  😝

A couple of quick pictures of two new acquisitions. I stumbled across a set of 7 MPC Amtrak passenger cars for a good price. I decided to pair it with the newer LionChief 2.0+ engine.  Prototypically speaking, a silver and black, snub nosed F40 would have been more realistic but I like the semi-scaled LionChief colors and proportions better with these cars.

A few more pictures and maybe a video of the entire trained forthcoming.

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A few videos of this morning’s run session…

Amtrak passenger train overtaking an Erie train as it comes onto the mainline.  In my world, the Erie branch line will be bringing equipment and products from Bucyrus Erie and Erie forge and Steel Inc to central PA.    The original Bucyrus Erie was mining equipment and later specialized in steam shovels, but for my railroad they will be making miscellaneous earthmoving equipment.



I love the recent Amtrak cars that I picked up. They’re in awesome shape.  Family from Chicago and California would visit us in Erie and I remember countless times waiting on the platform as these huge shiny boxes pulled up.   The super liners weren’t back then, at least not on the routes that came through Erie that I recall.  On my railroad, there will be a way point station on the mainline where passengers can get off and then take a separate train to their final destination in Central PA.

And they are heavy!  When I first put them all on the track together and gave the entire train a tug, I was thinking… ****, I hope the single engine can pull it.  I think I want to convert these to LED. So, I’ll have to do some searching because I know others have already done this.

I’ve never been into the passenger trains that much but this set has me really interested.  I fear that I’m now going to start collecting passenger trains… God help my bank account

The LionChief 2.0+ engine is really nice.  I like the semi scale proportions and the color scheme with the MPC cars.  For a little more money I could’ve went with a Legacy F 40 but I really like the looks of this one. It ran great right out of the box. Sounds great. Love it so far.



And the Erie train coming onto the main line with mixed commodities, steel, and construction equipment …

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@Mark Boyce.  Thanks, Mark.   Yes, I grew up in Erie.  Tracks crisscrossed the city at a number of different places. The house we grew up in was only a couple of blocks from one set of tracks. I remember when I would hear the horns blowing, I would always run down to watch them pass. I still have a few flattened coins that we put on the rails.  We could never find the nickels …. I always wondered why that was. Maybe they stuck to the wheels? Ha ha

Erie isn’t the huge manufacturing location it once was but in the day there was Hammermill Paper (became International paper before they closed) , GE locomotive which still might be there in a reduced capacity, Bucyrus Erie, Lord Corp, Zurn and many others that no longer exist.

The big layout update is that the future space for the layout has changed again. We have removed it entirely from the upstairs bonus room, which is now bedroom space, and added it to the first floor. We had originally planned for a two car garage but expanded that to a three bay garage with the additional bay being an enclosed room for the layout. Waiting for the architect to get back with the plans to see how this will look and if it works out,  that will give me approximately a 15 X 25 foot permanent space. Having it on the first floor is actually a win. Thinking 15 or 20 years down the road, that’s a flight of stairs that I will not have to go up and down. Also, just building the layout it will be super convenient to have it right off the garage so now we are not dragging lumber and tools through the house.

I‘m playing around with layout ideas for the proposed space now. I don’t know why I have an aversion to a lift bridge but I think I’m going to consider it. Having to do a turnaround/reverse loop for 072 curves in a “ folded dog bone” takes up a huge chunk of space.  If I can run my mainline around the circumference of the room that will save a ton of real estate and allow me more space for additional sidings, industries, and scenery.

I love the new Amtrak passenger set I picked up. This is actually the first passenger train I’ve ever owned and I’m really enjoying it. A lot of nostalgia tied to the set seeing the real thing pull in and out of my hometown station.  To help reduce power draw, I changed out the incundescent lightbulbs to LEDs. But I’m thinking I do not like the bright white. It looks kind of sleek but in my eyes it looks a little awkward. I ordered a set of the soft white LEDs and I’m going to swap them out. Let me know what you think.

The other thing I was thinking of doing is wiring the two light sockets in each car in series. The single roller makes the light “wink” as it and passes over a switch or a crossover. I’m thinking if I wire them in series and the rollers on both ends of the car power both lights, it will keep the light consistent. I need to do some research but any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

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Me: I don’t have room for any more purchases.

Also me: Hey, look at the Conrail engine I just picked up.  :-/

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Had some fun running trains this weekend.  I recreated different trains that I would often see intersecting Erie, PA.   The big blue Conrail engines were a common sight pulling mixed freight through the area on the main lines just south of downtown and over 19th St.  To the west of downtown, earthmoving equipment from the Bucyrus plant would cross 12th St towards the mainlines where I’m assuming they were picked up and transported elsewhere.   East of Erie, gondolas were common, more often than not filled with scrap. which in retrospect, I wonder if any of that came from the GE Locomotive plant located right there in Harborcreek.

This run session had me contemplating modeling more Erie specific industries.    I need to do some research, check out maps from the 70s to see where all the rails were (many of the tracks have lone since been removed or rerouted), and considering modeling the industries from that area.   This would be a big shift away from the fictional area I’ve been considering in central PA.  In the end, it will probably be a combination of both. But ultimately, it’ll be fun getting there regardless. :-)

As far as layout updates, there really hasn’t been much other than what I had previously mentioned about defining the new space. I have some tentative track plans that I will post. I do want to try my hand at building a control panel so I‘ve been reading up on that and checking out some YouTube videos.  I’ve been trying to be better about maintaining everything… Keeping the track clean, servicing the engines, going back and double checking some of the electrical work they have done.

The only small hiccup that I’ve run into is with the new Conrail engine that I picked up. The box car that was coupled directly behind the engine kept derailing on curves, even the 072 curves. I thought maybe it was a problem with the kinematic couplers or the pivoting pilot… which it still may be but I swapped it out with another box car that had a metal frame and trucks which was a bit heavier and the issue went away. You would think the weight of the entire train would’ve put enough force on the coupler to get it to pivot but maybe it was that particular box car and the way its coupler was aligned.  

i’m going to Google and read up on feedback about the coupler set up on this engine but if anyone else has any experience they want to share, I’m all ears.

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Have been doing odds and ends and also ran some trains this morning.

There’s another thread about  “design fatigue” … I can certainly relate. Now that I have the dimensions for the space in the new house, which is most likely still a ways off, I’ve been playing around with ideas. Going back-and-forth between folded dog bone and around the room plans. Have been leaning towards around the room but trying to avoid great big loops. Have been playing around with ideas for peninsulas to break it up. I’ll be posting some examples and asking for input at some point. But to that end…

SCARM vs Anyrail …. I have been using SCARM but decided to try Anyrail this past week.   I like Anyrail much better.  They both have comparable features but what I like about Anyrail better is the overall interface.  It’s easier to find specific features and settings and adding/moving track is more intuitive.  With Anyrail it’s much easier to grab track, scroll around the screen and select sections versus single pieces.  That alone allowed me to build some test plans much more quickly than if I used SCARM.  I’ll be posting some plans and thoughts about the new layout soon.

I had previously replaced the halogen bulbs in my MPC Amtrak passenger cars with LED bulbs.  But, they were a cool blue white.  They looked off and the lighting didn’t match the engine.  I opted to order more bulbs that were a soft white and replaced the bright white bulbs.  I had issues with the new bulbs immediately.   They would flicker erratically even when the train was standing still.  Some of them died right away.  When I went to change them out, they were HOT.   The other LED bulbs I but in ran cool but these new ones seemed to be a mess.  I decided to remove all the lights for now until I figure out something else. I might consider something GunRunnerJohn mentioned about updating the lights with an LED strip and computer control.  We’ll see …

Comparison…

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The first picture with the square LEDs exposed are the bright right ones which worked really well. The second picture, ”Vehicode”, are the bulbs I did not like and did not work very well.

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A couple short vids of today’s run session …

Passenger train overtaking the Erie freight waiting on a passing siding.  You might notice that the passenger cars are running without the interior lighting for now.



Running them circles 😝



Bird’s eye view …

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