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First off, just picked up a new 6023 model and its stunning!!!  The automatic steam blow off is awesome.  Regarding the tender “water spray” smoke feature, is this a Legacy control only function?  I run traditional and universal remote/Lionchief app but no Legacy ... yet.  Hoping theres a way to operate it without Legacy system.  Thanks all!

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Page 11 of the VL Niagara manual makes it clear that the water scoop feature is Legacy control only and if you are running in conventional you should switch the tender smoke OFF to prevent damage, which I think means that the smoke unit for this feature will otherwise remain heated and char the inside of it.

It’s such a good feature, together with all the other ones on this model, that you should consider getting a Legacy control set to use with it!

I don't have the particular model you are talking about but I have a Legacy Hudson that has this feature.  It is very very cool.  I saw Eric's Trains video on this engine and it's very cool.  I run Legacy.  Agree with Hancock you should consider it.  My opinion is that the technology has really been a boost for the hobby.  DCS Wi-Fi even better.  Operate your layout from an iPad.

John

Thanks all!  Page 11, got it Hancock. Im like a kid with a new toy, instruction manual later 😉

jbmccormick I hear ya, its hard for me to get away from the old school levers of transformers.  The Ipad/Lionchief remotes were hard enough to swallow.  Theres Something unnatural to me about programming trains Etc  BUT you are correct, its done wonders for the hobby.  Since you mention DCS, whats to come of it with the MTH retirement plans ... ?!  More importantly, whats the quality compared to Lionel?  Ive been a Lionel guy since childhood.

@Norton posted:

It will work with a Cab1/TMCC (AUX1 3) and it has Bluetooth so I suspect it will work on a smart device but haven't tried that. It just won't work in conventional.

Pete

Page 17 of the manual refers to activating the water scoop effect from a CAB-1 by the keystrokes you mention. But despite pages and pages referring to Lionchief App operation, there’s no reference to the App having any access to this feature. (The illustrations don’t show any App screen buttons that correspond to the relevant CAB keys.)

I have not tried it myself with this engine but I’ve never seen reference to the App being able to access all Legacy features. I could be wrong about that but during the recent LCCA presentations by Howard H. and Ryan K., there was talk about expanded App/Bluetooth functionality in the future, not right away. Maybe somebody more informed about the current state of these options can weigh in with a definite answer. 

However, what I do know is that no later than the VL Big Boy, the VL manuals have contained explicit reference to Legacy features not being accessible in conventional operation and only limited functionality in non-CAB2 operation. I took these to mean what they say and use the CAB2 for the VL engines I have got. They did signal to me that Lionel was effectively leaving conventional-only operators behind as respects more advanced/exotic operating features.

I’m conscious that there’s been talk of CAB2s eventually not being made any more but meanwhile they are certainly worth having to get the most out of these engines.

Thanks all!  Page 11, got it Hancock. Im like a kid with a new toy, instruction manual later 😉

.  .  .

Since you mention DCS, whats to come of it with the MTH retirement plans ... ?!  More importantly, whats the quality compared to Lionel?  Ive been a Lionel guy since childhood.  

The DCS future is a debate in itself that’s taken up pages on another thread. Since I have a few MTH engines I am very partial to I am concerned about control system product availability in the future, including replacement PS2/3 boards and of course the TIU and handheld remote. An MTH supplier who does upgrades  who I have contacted and I believe is in the know is fairly confident that with so much MTH product out there already, there will be a continuing supply of such components even if MTH as now existing does not continue. I rate Legacy the better system but I will try to maintain my existing DCS models. I can’t see myself adding to them in the future however.

@jbmccormick posted:

.  DCS Wi-Fi even better.  Operate your layout from an iPad.

John

Some of us prefer to look at our trains rather than a screen. 

The Legacy handheld is the only control system that allows one to access the "meat and potatoes" of train operation by feel rather than constantly having to look at an ipad screen or numbered handheld buttons.

Between this forum and my phone I have enough screen time.

@Hancock52 posted:

 They did signal to me that Lionel was effectively leaving conventional-only operators behind as respects more advanced/exotic operating features.

Conventional operators have always been left behind when it comes to advanced operating features since CC was invented.  Basic features like speed control are also better conventionally. This goes for Lionel and MTH alike. If there are no "perks" to CC, what would be the point for those incurring the extra expense?

I’m conscious that there’s been talk of CAB2s eventually not being made any more but meanwhile they are certainly worth having to get the most out of these engines.

I'll have to grab a backup. As I stated above, I have absolutely no interest in running trains staring at a screen.

I think all of this "running a train via an electronic device will get younger people interested", is misguided.

Putting ketchup on fish doesn't mean a kid will like fish.

Its the "places "the electronic device can go on its own that draws kids these days. Linking a toy train to it doesn't mean they will have an intererest in toy tains.

It just means when they bore of them after 15 minutes they can click over to their snapchat, facebook, twitter,or whatever account that they can't stay away from.

 

Last edited by RickO
@AlanRail posted:

I think MTH recognizes that DCS requires looking more at the handheld than the trains. That's the reason they went with iPad control to make control more visual and easier to do. 

Without I hope going too far off-thread, I'm new to the DCS WiFi control (Lionel's too) and have wondered whether the old remotes are actually more intuitive than a touchscreen. My kids can use any remote keypad with one hand and without having to stare at it; I can do the same with the DCS remote. CAB-2 is aptly named because most of my household - including me - must use two hands to hold one!

Anyway, FWIW, I have found that the DCS App covers most of the ordinary running functions of each MTH engine I have, which are far from as feature-rich as the OP's VL Niagara or indeed any VL engine I have run. Not so with the Lionel App but maybe I have not given it a fair crack of the whip. 

P.S. "Putting ketchup on fish doesn't mean a kid will like fish" really resonates with me, as well as anything that recognizes youngsters won't come into the hobby just because they can run a model train on a smartphone. 

The prior DCS handhelds required remembering numonic key letters that controlled various multiple functions. For me, it took too long to find the right letter key abbreviation for the function I wanted. I memorized a dozen or so. I don't think I ever used 100% of the functionality on the handheld. 

So maybe that's intuitive for you and others.  It didn't work well for me. The iPad visual is far more intuitive and quicker.

These days, I don't like to memorize more than I need to.

I love watching my trains and not the screen as well, I didn't say that.  The challenge is that unless I have on my special glasses that allow me to see through walls I can't see the trains running in various rooms.  

Once I saw TMCC, I was mesmerized.  The CAB-1 remote was easy.  I also got DCS but struggled with the thumbwheel remote and seemingly the "train not on track" message.  To me it was not intuative.  Legacy is great, absolutely agree, but the range of the remote (even with an extender) results in some dead spots for me.  DCS Wi-Fi is great, and once I worked out the various "ghost in the machine" (primarily user error), I found this really really easy.  I will have to see if that effect is available on the DCS W-Fi or not.

The iPad interface has helped my son have more interest in the trains, but this is dad's hobby which I understand and respect.  He is a big fan of the military trains, and that keeps his attention for longer periods of time.

I understand @Choo Choo Johnny, the hands on the throttles, hard to replace, as well as the nostalgia.  From a quality perspective, I don't think you can go wrong with whatever system you like.  

I am a bit worried on MTH retirement, but some element of the show will go on.

John

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