Walthers Caboose...

Just a quick update (for anyone who's even the slightest bit interested...)  

Seems this was screwed and glued together to such a degree that disassembly is not an option; so I guess I'll have to leave it "as is". Don't want to break anything just to fix those windows... 

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

Seems this was screwed and glued together to such a degree that disassembly is not an option

Yup. That's how these were assembled. You might be able to pry off a side if it were just glued in place, but you'd probably inflict a lot of damage to that side.

There's a lot of white metal castings in that caboose - just end casts are pretty hefty!

Mark, cut a slim piece of good sticky tape, get some glue around the window edges, fasten an end of the tape to the middle of the pane and pull!  Right what's next?  Oh yes, how to fix North Korea, got that on my notepad, but it fell in the washing up bowl ... ah well....

Jason

That model kit was a staple of the Walthers line for a long, long time.   I think they still offered it right up until they sold off the O Scale in the 80s or 90s, and started making it in 40s or 50s.

The ones  I have seen from later runs have sheet metal, I think Aluminum, roof panels that are glued to a wooden roof that is inside the body at the top.    Earlier ones had a hard cardstock sheet to make the roof panels.  

the pin and cotter pin truck mount was common for the Walthers kits and I think in O scale in general into the late 50s or longer.    The pin is shaped like a flathead screw head and is inserted in the bolster before the bolster is screwed to the underbody.    I think the idea in those days of dummy couplers, you could lift the car body to uncouple the car without lifting the truck off the track.    You would leave enough play on the pin before the cotter to let the couplers clear.    It might be possible to unscrew the bolsters, and remove the pin, then install different trucks with wood screws into the underbody through the bolster.    I can't remember if the bolsters is part of a larger casting for the end platforms.   If so, then that is not so easy.    By the way, those are original Walthers trucks also.

From the photos it looks like a nice assembly job.

I think I might still have complete new kit sitting on s a shelf someplace.

The configuration of the stack, the end rails, and the brake handle, instead of wheel,  make it a plain as-built N5 as opposed to the later N5B and rebuilt N5s.    It is an ok model of that car.   That road number is one I have never seen however.    All the references I have seen were 6 digit and started with 477xxx.   There were a few 476993 to 476999 also.    The N5 were numbered in the series 477000-477617 according to a "condensed roster 1957".    

If a cotter pin is used to hold the truck on, it is a king pin, usually aluminum, with a head that is hidden inside the bolster. It was the usual way trucks were mounted to most O 'gauge' cars back then. Usually a washer used between the cotter pin and truck.

When that caboose kit was first made in the late 1930's the sides and ends were cast aluminum. Less expensive to process heavier low temperature and more damage prone metals were used for these castings as time passed on.  In the last issue of that kit, Walthers claimed an 'update' for it and provided a new kit number. The old one for the PRR caboose kit was 3825. It has a wood under-roof covered with a sheet aluminum or plasticized card stock roof that extends over the platforms.  The revised kit was number 5411, which had pre-formed plastic roof panels for each end.

Walthers had a bay window caboose kit built much the same way, number 3836.  All Nation had a C&O caboose also built from metal castings, also a late 1930's origin kit.

S. Islander

I found one of these at a local swap meet some years ago, but the paint is a little on the "bright" side.

Overall it is an excellent build and one of these days I'll actually paint it correctly.  A great N5b representation from the past IMO.

Mark - I think yours is numbered for the Los Angeles Division for Lines West West of West.

"Overall it is an excellent build and one of these days I'll actually paint it correctly.  A great N5b representation from the past IMO."

IF it were an N5B, the smokestack would be next to the cupola, it would have bunch of safetry railings on the end and a brake wheel, instead of the casting representing the lever brake mechanism.    There are also some small dimensional differences that I can't remember.    The stack at the end is a major spotting feature of the As-built N5.

Wow, lots of great info; thanks so much! 

Other than spray painting the trucks in a less shiny black, I guess I'll leave this as is...although that 9-digit road number is...well, I don't know what it is. 

Thanks again.

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

...although that 9-digit road number is...well, I don't know what it is. 

Thanks again.

Mark in Oregon

Well, the decal sheet gave me all the digits from 1 to 9, so I might as well use them all. Oops, I got one upside down!  

Jim

prrjim thanks for the clarification.  I never really did know the difference between an N5 and an N5b until now.  Sounds like the N5b was the result of FRA mandated safety upgrades? 

@GG1 4877 posted:

but the paint is a little on the "bright" side.

Earlier era N5's were a much brighter near crimson red, but then few model that era,

According to the PRR historical society articles (PRRT&HS) I have read, the RR started building the N5 before and during WW I.    It was one of the first steel cabooses put in service by RRs.     They began building the N5B sometime in the 1930s, I can't remember dates.    As was mentioned some of the added hand railings and what down might have been FRA mandated.     The N5B was a foot or maybe 2 longer and the internal layout was changed quite a bit as evidence by the smokestack on the N5b being next to the cupola.    I think there were some major changes to the frame and the N5b were all built with the "peaked ends" on the roof to accomodate the heavy I-beam collision posts.      I think the N5C with the portholes was built on the same frame with basically the same layout.

During or after building the N5B, the PRR embarked on a program to modernize and update the N5.    The update included teh newer brake systems, rearranged the interior to be like the N5B, adding the safetry railings and also collison posts.    However I don't think the roof overhang at the ends was quite as pronounced on these.   After the rebuilds,  the N5 and N5B probably all looked pretty much alike.

There was also an N5A of which I think 5 were built.    These were built with Duryea underframes to provide better ride and what not.    The look like an N5B.   all the N5A however, had fabricated steps on the ends instead of the castings.     this is a spotting point, but I think later a number of N5B also got these, but not sure.    Since they stopped the program after only 5 cars, it must not have accomplished what was intended.

In the postwar era most N5 PRR cabin cars were rebuilt with collision posts on extended end platforms in a fashion similar to the 1941/2 built N5b cabins. Over the years N5 cabin cars also lost their center underbody tool boxes.    PRR modelers are fortunate to have access to an on line  data base  of the entire roster of 2113 cabin cars on the railroad as of 5/15/57.  Here is the link: http://pennsyrr.com/databases/...ll.php?Search=Search   The listing includes car numbers, class, PRR region and assignment.  Associated with each car number are codes indicating if the car has collision posts (CP), Train Phones (TP),  or if the car fitted with steam lines and brake gear configured for mail & express passenger service (PX).

In May 1957 the PRR rostered 616 N5 cabin cars, of that number 542 had collision posts - only 19 had Trainphone gear.

All 200 N5b's had collision posts - 52 had Trainphone gear.  

All 199 N5c's had collision posts - 64 had Trainphone gear.

All 199 N8's had collision posts - 120 had Train phone gear.  

In 1957 the PRR still rostered 867 wood body/steel underframe N6b cabin cars, 4 four wheel ND cabins cars, and a lone surviving N6a wide cupola car.   The wood body cabin cars were not upgraded with collision posts - perhaps for safety reasons they were most commonly in secondary service. 

O scale PRR modelers are fortunate to have virtually all major classes of PRR cabin cars offered in O scale at one time or another.  The Walthers N5 is one of the earliest PRR cabin car kits.    

@Keystoned Ed posted:

O scale PRR modelers are fortunate to have virtually all major classes of PRR cabin cars offered in O scale at one time or another.  The Walthers N5 is one of the earliest PRR cabin car kits.    

I know I feel fortunate. 

So without actually looking at mine in person, what do you think: 1950s, maybe?

Mark in Oregon

Another question:

The coupler height on this is close to 1/16" too high; it still "works", but how does one lower that on something that is basically "captive"? that is; there are no washers above the trucks to remove, and the coupler pocket is part of the main frame channel, so it cannot be adjusted independent of the rest of the frame?  

Not a big deal, just wondering... 

Mark in Oregon

Mark, get some Kadee 'Overset' couplers, #742:
https://www.kadee.com/o-scale-couplers-c-272_253_254/
Second column

The knuckle head top aligns with the shaft rather than its center, so the head is dropped down by about 1/16".
Jason

How do you know that the PRR boxcar is not too low? Check both against a coupler height gauge.

Nice thread, glad I got curious about it. I thought it may have been a for sale item, and passable at the moment. The Walther name got the best of me though

Kadee now makes offset shank couplers in O scale.    #747 is "medum underset shank" couplers.   

You have to cut off the Kadee mounting slot for the spring, and then file down the rest of the shank to match what  you have.   then drill the appropriate hole for mounting it in the existing platform.

this coupler is offset down about 1/2 the head size.

@PRRMP54 posted:

How do you know that the PRR boxcar is not too low? Check both against a coupler height gauge.

 

Fair question; the PRR boxcar has been checked (and passed) for height. 

Mark in Oregon

@prrjim posted:

Kadee now makes offset shank couplers in O scale.    #747 is "medum underset shank" couplers.   

You have to cut off the Kadee mounting slot for the spring, and then file down the rest of the shank to match what  you have.   then drill the appropriate hole for mounting it in the existing platform.

this coupler is offset down about 1/2 the head size.

I may have to do that, although I think those look kinda odd...thanks!

Mark in Oregon

At first I freelanced my coupler heights and kept matching.    that got to be an issues, so I got a gauge either a Kadee or NMRA and started setting them all to that height.    Then a lot of new stuff I got fit in with no work.