Warranty or misrepresented

I can only respond to the first question, although my engine/product wasn't top of the line.  When something goes bad, as my 0-8-0 did under warranty, it bothers me because I'm extremely busy and it's a hassle for me to pack something up and ship it.  But when I looked at the warranty terms, they were pretty much useless. In this case it was Lionel and I bought my train set from Amazon, a non-authorized dealer, and so the less than ideal warranty was further compromised.  So, yeah, it made sense for me to try and trouble shoot the problem myself. It seemed simple. However, as I posted elsewhere, unlike those on the forum who actually know what they are doing, I made the problem worse and am driving to Charles Ro after work tonight to see if they can fix it :-). So I  violated my warranty but it was so crummy to begin with that I'll end up paying something either way. it's just a matter of how much.

Than there was the MTH caboose I bought.  Forum guys helped me troubleshoot that some LEDs were wired backwards and I can live with them not working on DC. BUT, when I originally called the helpful Authorized dealer to explain the problem, they didn't have any left for an exchange and suggested I first contact MTH and then if unsuccessful return it to them and try and find the caboose elsewhere.  So, I called MTH and was told my $50 plus purchase was too inexpensive to repair (!) and they were basically unsympathetic and didn't have any suggestions On how to fix the problem. This was my first MTH purchase and it left me with a negative impression. I believe I very politely said so.

So, on to plan B.  I tried to find another store with the caboose. Lots of wasted time on the phone to find that no one had it and if they did, it would have cost me more (because I'd already shopped for the best price), *plus* shipping the defective car back, *and* paying shipping on the replacement.  This is a warranty???

To me having to jump through these hoops is NOT a warranty.  Fixing something that should have worked properly during the warranty period, no questions asked, and no hassles is my idea of a warranty. Bonus points for free shipping.  Other types of businesses from dress shops to software do this consistently. I hear things like, we are very sorry that we messed up your order/something didn't work. What can we do to make you happy?

So, yeah, if you are handy, fixing it yourself makes sense when exercising a warranty will cost you so much time and money.  Plus, it's fun to learn about electronics, mechanical things, and etc.

Just my long winded view.

TRRR

I don't believe that one of our major suppliers of O-Gauge train equipment deliberately misrepresents their products. I have had just one incident where a new piece of equipment had a failure after a couple of months and I sent it for repair. The repairs were done professionally (they caught and fixed a problem that I was unaware of as well) and it was returned promptly. I say let the experts to any corrections.

As far as sellers of used merchandise, I suggest that you know who you are dealing with and problems will be minimal.

I have only had two cases where a new under warranty item was defective.  Both were MTH ( which doesn't say anything negative because most of my purchases have been from MTH) In both cases, I posted a forum topic to see if it was something I was doing wrong or a defective item.  Once we determined it was defective, I called MTH and they sent me a prepaid shipping label to send it for warranty repair.  One item came back completely repaired, and the other was just sent in two weeks ago.  In neither case did I contact the authorized reseller, because I knew he didn't have any more of the item in question.

TRRR,

I called MTH and was told my $50 plus purchase was too inexpensive to repair (!) and they were basically unsympathetic and didn't have any suggestions On how to fix the problem.

If that's really the case, please provide some detail. I'm very familiar with MTH and their service techs, and I find your statement extremely unlikely to be accurate.

If, however, it is accurate, I'd be very happy to bring it to the attention of MTH's VP operations. To do that, I need some detail, such as the date and the name of the tech to whom you spoke. If you like, you can respond to my E-mail address, which is listed in my forum profile.

Many times on a new item it is easier (and much safer) to fix something yourself if it isn't a major problem and you have the ability to do so. For an engine, sending it in for warranty will cost you around $20 for shipping & insurance plus you take the risk of having it damaged even worse by the shippers and will be without the engine for several weeks and maybe months. Spending $20 and taking the shipping risk to repair am item that costs a couple of bucks just doesn't make sense. I just had a smoke fan motor problem on a new diesel. I already had a new $3-$5 smoke motor so I just replaced it. Took about a half hour at the most and I saved $15-$17.

Sometimes used items are hard to find items that someone really wants. The person might really want the item and not want to go through the trouble of trying to find another one so they keep it. I would imagine some negotiation is usually done on used items like this and the buyer gets something back for the misrepresented item. I have gotten credit from a seller on ebay for the condition of an item that was misrepresented, however it was not a train related item. I now usually only buy the inexpensive electronic items from the Asian suppliers for experimenting with. Seldom purchase a train item on ebay. Also I seldom purchase a train item used from anywhere, I prefer and have had much better luck with new train related items.

Ladies & Gentlemen,

   I must be very lucky because most all the new stuff I purchase comes in perfectly, unless damaged in shipment.  Even my Lionel Legacy unit, which had a problem was fixed in record time, and returned to me free of charge.  The guys here on the OGR selling rebuilt or upgraded ZW's & KW's have been truthful beyond belief, the only problem I ever encountered was purchasing a couple used FasTrack CC Switches.  I was promised a LH and got a RH and the other was damaged in shipment, I fixed it myself.  Long ago I had a similar problem with a few Lionel 072's switches being damaged in shipment, at least I think they were damaged in shipment.  All in all both my new purchases and my used purchases, have been on the plus side.   The Z4K I purchased from a form member was advertise with a  read out problem, the man was true to his word, the read out is 5 Amps lover than actual, not a problem, I marked the Z4k and set it appropriately, the used Z4K works great.  I have acquired some items like the P2

Pittsburgh, Pa Street Car that I have been searching for, for a long time, here on the OGR also.  One of the members knowing what I did for a living gifted me a President Reagan Box Car, now one of my prize train possessions, I hope to meet him in person some day to thank him personally.  We have great people in our hobby for the most part.  Rich Melvin should be proud of his OGR forum, IMO it's the best on the world wide Net.   For those of you who look at life in a sour way, when God gives you Lemons, you make Lemonade.  As my Marine buddies say, improvise and over come.  

PCRR/Dave

Barry,

"Extremely unlikely to be accurate" is a bit strong and doesn't come across very well in an online communication, which I suspect wasn't your intention. My statement is accurate. (I'm a minister trained in "verbatim reporting" :-)  I provided the full details already except that I spoke with a woman in customer service, not a service technician. The call would have been made shortly after my 24 January 2015 order was received. If you want to bring it to a VP's attention, that's fine, but as I wrote, people on this forum helped me troubleshoot the cause (negative polarity DC LED wiring) and I can live with it. It remains my favorite piece of rolling stock.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Why didn't you speak with a tech? Customer Service isn't qualified to make any kind of a technical determination. Further, why were you so willing to accept such a preposterous answer?

Regardless, I find your statement that...

I called MTH and was told my $50 plus purchase was too inexpensive to repair (!) and they were basically unsympathetic

...to be so completely out of character with the company's usual response as be absurd and unlikely in the extreme. To put things bluntly, IMO your statement lacks any credibility.

I agree with Passenger Train Collector.  I do not believe any model/toy train manufacturer would misrepresent their products.  I've bought both from my LHS and online,  new locos and cars.   Yes occassionally,  I have received one DOA or it breaks down shortly after receiving it ... in every case the store from which  I purchased or the manufacturer has made good on a repair or have replaced the locomotive.   This has happened with Lionel, MTH, Williams, and Atlas O trains.   Atlas O actually repaired a trolly and had it back to me with 7 days of me sending out to them.... impressive!!!

This whole topic is just he OP stirring the pot, don't get sucked in.

For the swap meets I have been to their is always a test track for engines. When I order something from a store I ask if it is NITB before I buy it. I have had no issues ,with my engines, so far, but I have seen numerous members of the SD3R kids club send engines back to get repaired by the dealer they buy it from, with issues talking to the dealer. 

I commented about the OP and this topic earlier but mine were deleted. This has been beat to death! Instead of deleting my comments Rich... you should have deleted the whole thread!

I've bought literally hundreds of train items used, probably about 80% of my stuff is used.  I've generally get what I pay for, sometimes more, and sometimes a little less.  I can only remember a couple of times where I really felt I was "taken", and I've been able to resolve those to my satisfaction.  There have been cases where I didn't pay attention to what I was really buying, and got exactly what I asked for, just didn't realize that I wasn't getting what I wanted until too late.  That's on me, not the seller.

The other part of the question is pretty easy.  What if a brand new item arrives with some minor defect, let's say the Vision Line Big Boy.  I can either put it in the box and risk two-way shipping back to Lionel with all the issues of Post Office Football, or I can fix it myself.  If it's truly simple, it's an easy choice, it's more likely to have more damage when I get it back if I ship it.  It's not always the smart choice to ship something for a minor issue that can be resolved locally.

I just got my Vision Line PFE Reefers, the volume control is flopping around on the bracket inside.  I could scream and shout and jump up and down, or I can simply open it up and fix it.  You can probably guess which I'll choose.

I still don't see the purpose of this thread, everyone deals with stuff like this in their own way.

I deleted your comment (and several others, too) to try and keep the personalities and name calling out of this. More comments like yours have been added to this thread since those deletions and I'm not doing any more micro-surgery here to remove them.

Hopefully the OP will take note of your comments and those of others here and begin to understand why several of his previous posts in other threads were deleted, too.

I've had a few used items delivered that were misrepresented. I haevn't sent anything back because they were hard to find items and I could live with the issues. I did however notify the seller of my dissatisfaction and suggested a refund amount that made the sale "fair." All were happy to oblige.

I have generally been lucky, with new.....and with used, until yesterday.  I just got

in an uncommon vintage collectible loco, that, in the auction photo, was complete.

It arrived Priority Mail, insured, BUT:  box, crushed, with a big hole in it, and there were big chunks out of the plastic loco cab, but only one small piece in the box (guess the rest fled out the hole in the box).  This was from a long respected train dealer seen every York.   I have generally had good luck with USPS, but there have been truck accidents all over the place...anyway, sent item back, with received box in a new box...Would rather have the item.  Packing and shipping back, and paying the freight,

as described above, is a pain.

Going back to the original post, the best response that I even got with an engine that I could not get to run correctly was from Sunset/3rd Rail.

When I sent Scott an e-mail about my problem, he said something to the effect that if I wanted to, I could take off the shell and look for a loose or pinched wire.  This would have been a much better alternative than shipping the locomotive 3000 miles to California and then 3000 miles back for a simple fix!  Not only would this have been expensive to ship (very heavy brass steam locomotive) but every time an item like this is shipped, there is a chance of damage to some fine detail part.

In the end, I didn't have to take off the shell, as it was simply a matter of getting the male/female plugs on the engine/tender to seat correctly.

I like the option from 3rd Rail to take off the shell if I wished, and I know that this is NOT a response that I would gotten from either Lionel or MTH.

Regarding buying an item that is not as described, I had that happen with an antique pocket watch that I bought on ebay.  The porcelain dial was described as perfect, but upon receipt I found a minor chip in the dial (something that does have an effect on the value).  I contacted the seller and he begrudgingly offered me a partial refund or the opportunity to send the watch back.  I took the partial refund and was happy with the purchase.

Jim