I agree and in a few years engines built in China will become what the production issue was in Korea. Yes for me it was an eye opener but for the quality and product support it was well worth it. Of course now as we been talking about this I just had an SD9 go down and I think for the same reason as the first one did right after It was delivered to my house. Go figure.
"I wonder if a discount price for buying three units in the same road would help with getting this project to the starting line?"
Buy 2, get one free!
I would suspect the only discount you might see from Sunset would be for a 20 unit run of a particular rd name [I believe that is the minimum to get a rd name produced with appropriate detailing] JMO
Non-powered units is a possibility as well. Needing three powered units in 3 rail is not very common. Two is usually more than enough.
All of which is academic if he does not get the orders. Scott is a smart guy - he can only justify an imported model if he can sell enough to keep the lights on.
At this price point, a dummy option would assist me in ordering a pair. I know the 2 rail guys detest dummies (real, unreal and imagined) but it I'd rather have a dummy than no SD40-2s owned. A discount for 3 units ordered would assist also.
I you go back to the Atlas message site there were like 200 positives for them to build a GP40-2. They ignored us.
Dick
suzukovich posted:Eccentric Crank posted:I agree with everything written. But on the 3RS or 3R side I think reservations are slow due to $730 a pop, $1460 for a pair. And it was very common to see these in triples. It is just too much money. Not for what you get, but the prices are leaving the 3R or 3RS modeler behind.
I don't think that's the issue. Although I will agree that when I purchased the three SD9s and the one SD7 the 2800.00 price was an eye opener. It could also help if maybe Scott offered some none powered units.
It's a very BIG issue to me!
As I said before, in order to have a proper over the mountain road consist, one must have 3 six axle diesels $$$ and 5 four axle diesels $$$$$. Compound that with the fact that I am partial to high-hood diesels, well, that combo puts me straight out of the diesel buying public. Did I mention running multiple trains with diesels?
I wonder what the minimum number of orders is needed for this project vs the actual number that have been received.
Big Jim posted:suzukovich posted:Eccentric Crank posted:I agree with everything written. But on the 3RS or 3R side I think reservations are slow due to $730 a pop, $1460 for a pair. And it was very common to see these in triples. It is just too much money. Not for what you get, but the prices are leaving the 3R or 3RS modeler behind.
I don't think that's the issue. Although I will agree that when I purchased the three SD9s and the one SD7 the 2800.00 price was an eye opener. It could also help if maybe Scott offered some none powered units.
It's a very BIG issue to me!
As I said before, in order to have a proper over the mountain road consist, one must have 3 six axle diesels $$$ and 5 four axle diesels $$$$$. Compound that with the fact that I am partial to high-hood diesels, well, that combo puts me straight out of the diesel buying public. Did I mention running multiple trains with diesels?
OK you misunderstood me. From the time the SD9s were announced and reservations were being taken, I started putting money on the side each month. It's a big deal for me with 3 kids and bills too. But let's put this into perspective. I just saw the price for the Lionel SD45. At 600.00 x 2 which I would need is 1200.00s. From what I can tell they are only offering one engine in the road I want and no nonpowered unit. For a few dollars more I can get a better detailed engine that is road specific then one that may not be correct for the roads I run. I have bought very few New engines and when I did it was either because the engine and road disappears quickly or I just felt it was worth it. Also I run my engines while quite a few wind up on shelves and collect dust. Now let's talk about service. I just had an engine go tits up. I called to see if I could send it in for repair. After explaining what it did, 3rd Rail sent me a shipping label and engine is enroute. Now if it's warranty work or not I plan on biting the bullet and pay them to fix it. Try that with Lionel or MTH. Another thing to think about, which I do. 3rd Rail engines are prototypical correct for the roads produced. Lionel and MTH are pretty much generic. Another factor in my decision process. Bottom line you pay for what you get.
Once again, I agree with everything eveyone is writing, and you do get what you pay for. But the problem is paying for excellence has now put me, Big Jim and others out of the market. BTW C Ro has the Lionel SD45's shipped for $539. Not a bad model for 3 Railers, Fixed pilot, easy kadee option, road specific details, legacy sounds. I saw the Lionel new SD40 BN and Conrail models, that did have a number of road specific details that differentiated the two. BN paint job looked pretty good. I realize my Lionel scribblings are irrelevant to 2 railers.
I went to his Website last night couldn't find them. Of course now I'm in a bind. I'm in the process of buying parts that I know I will need for the Humvee I bought. Parts are not cheap vs buying the Lionel GN SD45 or picking up the remaining C&S SD9 and GN FT B unit front 3RD Rail. I am not rich either and have to try to keep with in budget. And since I am also trying to keep my CUCV and not sell it. It's a little rough.
Give them a call. May have been the preorder price.
I was hoping for an ex-Missouri Pacific, Grand Trunk Western SD40-2 in blue, red & white as painted between 1985-1992.
If the switch is to the GP9 diesel then i wouid have to switch to a Grand Trunk Western GP9 diesel in the 4600 or 4900 number series that was repainted in the blue, red & white scheme between 1980 and 1990. I do not have an accurate scale model of the GTW GP9 with TMCC and RailSounds to operate.
Andrew
What happens when the new tariffs go into effect? Do we then build them here - is this the end of the road for imported train models?
p51 posted:ecd15 posted:Well, technically, Southern Pacific never had any of the standard SD40-2s. All of their SD40-2s had the tunnel motor radiator option.
Really?
Thats an SP SD40R. Probably from the prototypes 3rd rebuild program given the photo. Note the flexicoil trucks are the fastest spotting feature that its NOT an SD40-2.
CBQer posted:I you go back to the Atlas message site there were like 200 positives for them to build a GP40-2. They ignored us.
Dick
Dick, still amazed at that... considering they've had such success with them in HO and N and if done right today to handle some of the variations would be an instant top seller considering the improvements they've made in recent years, IMO. I'm definitely in on the SD40-2's, but also would welcome GP40/40-2's as well as the Canadian Wide Cab variants. Wouldn't turn down SD38/38-2's either....
EC, I really like the newer Lionel Legacy offerings, easy conversion to fixed pilot, lengthen the handrails, move the side frames in basically make them look awesome. If someone made 2R conversions for them that would be awesome! wheelsets and electrical pickup.
They did not include SD40-2 versions of
The Grand Trunk Western in red and blue
ex-Missouri Pacific SD40-2s
The Soo Line in early 1970's white and red with the black SOO
Chicago & North Western in the Falcon Service paint scheme
Chicago & North Western in the Safety Yellow scheme
Andrew
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You know you cant make em all
Maybe we can't make all of 'em, but I can paint and detail the little devils.
Dick
falconservice posted:They did not include SD40-2 versions of
The Grand Trunk Western in red and blue
ex-Missouri Pacific SD40-2s
The Soo Line in early 1970's white and red with the black SOO
Chicago & North Western in the Falcon Service paint scheme
Chicago & North Western in the Safety Yellow scheme
Andrew
Because no one reserved them.
Sunset still has this model posted but reservations are considerably short of putting it into production , it seems steam and first generation diesel are Scotts doable market for new models. JMO
I placed an order for the CP SD40-2 in 3 rail. I originally ordered a Lionel CP SD40 which completely got botched by poor QC and a neon red color scheme.
I really hope Scott has the orders necessary to produce a run of these. With the departure of MTH and Lionel’s QC issues, we really need an alternative.
@GG1 4877 posted:Non-powered units is a possibility as well. Needing three powered units in 3 rail is not very common. Two is usually more than enough.
I agree that only two power units are needed and the three powered 3rd Rail F3 units I bought broke the bank, but I want sound. I personally don’t like “dead” units in my consists. However, to get sound requires a powered unit. This is not a cheap hobby if you want accurate models.
@Mike DeBerg posted:Dick, still amazed at that... considering they've had such success with them in HO and N and if done right today to handle some of the variations would be an instant top seller considering the improvements they've made in recent years, IMO. I'm definitely in on the SD40-2's, but also would welcome GP40/40-2's as well as the Canadian Wide Cab variants. Wouldn't turn down SD38/38-2's either....
EC, I really like the newer Lionel Legacy offerings, easy conversion to fixed pilot, lengthen the handrails, move the side frames in basically make them look awesome. If someone made 2R conversions for them that would be awesome! wheelsets and electrical pickup.
Well IF you can't buy 'em, Build Em like I did with a Weaver Gp38!
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It seems right now the sweet spot for locomotives is in the range of 1945-1965.
In another 5 years I'm guessing it will progress (extend?) from 1955 to 1970 or 1972.
Another limiting item may the (probable) larger than 48" minimum radius of the GPs
(Scott doesn't always seem to specify minimum radius if it is larger than 48") which
could be one of the reasons most larger, modern locos have limited appeal.
There are just fewer layouts that can accommodate them.
Some of the SD40-2 will most likely will be made in the last half of 2021.
Andrew
The cost of high end diesels, also adds to the discussion, as we approach $????.00 IMO. My sweetheart reminds me, often, of the last purchase setting on a shelf.
No question, if Scott does make a reduced run of the SD-40-2 models there will be fewer Road names at higher pricing. JMO
@hibar posted:No question, if Scott does make a reduced run of the SD-40-2 models there will be fewer Road names at higher pricing. JMO
Time will tell. Perhaps ADDING a few choices could add some needed reservations. Add SP, DRG, and CNW and Scott might see a pleasant increase in reservations. Especially the Very popular SP. If some of you could add another reservation, that would move us closer to commerciality. I’ve doubled down my order of two to four. Time to Step Up if you Really Want This model.
Cheers.
TrainBub
@TrainBub posted:Time will tell. Perhaps ADDING a few choices could add some needed reservations. Add SP, DRG, and CNW and Scott might see a pleasant increase in reservations. Especially the Very popular SP. If some of you could add another reservation, that would move us closer to commerciality. I’ve doubled down my order of two to four. Time to Step Up if you Really Want This model.
Cheers.
TrainBub
The SP and the DRGW never bought SD40-2s, they bought Tunnel motors. Also, if 10 people reserve 1 each of something new that will do no good. It is a combination of total numbers and variations. While 500 reservations would be awesome if it is 50 variations of 10 models that won't work. But 250 identical reservations might.
The railroads to add would be
MISSOURI PACIFIC original scheme, no dynamic brakes
MISSOURI PACIFIC no dynamic brakes, repainted in UNION PACIFIC colors
GTW logo on ex-MP without dynamic brakes, in UP scheme
GRAND TRUNK WESTERN GTW full blue and orange repaint
SOO LINE original 1969 paint scheme
Chicago & North Western 1970's scheme variations
Andrew
@rdunniii posted:The SP and the DRGW never bought SD40-2s, they bought Tunnel motors. Also, if 10 people reserve 1 each of something new that will do no good. It is a combination of total numbers and variations. While 500 reservations would be awesome if it is 50 variations of 10 models that won't work. But 250 identical reservations might.
Well I’m surprised ALL SP and DRG were Tunnel motors. 😖☹️☹️ Just trying to come up with more options that HELPS the Commerciality of the project.
Too bad. 🤔
@hibar posted:No question, if Scott does make a reduced run of the SD-40-2 models there will be fewer Road names at higher pricing. JMO
Scott (3rd Rail) added another "recent" modern offering, the 90s-era C44-9W (same construction as the GP7/9 and proposed SD40-2 [ABS Plastic Shell/Die Cast Frame/Brass and Plastic Detail parts] etc.), which appears to be at a reduced run relative to the SD40-2 and it has a higher price (~$900 ea), which concurs with the included post above.
Scott Kay
@Mike CT posted:The cost of high end diesels, also adds to the discussion, as we approach $????.00 IMO. My sweetheart reminds me, often, of the last purchase setting on a shelf.
As far as the price adding to the "discussion", at the end of the day there really is not much to discuss. The price of a newly tooled and relatively decent road-specific 2-Rail O scale diesel locomotive in the $400 - $500 range, e.g. Atlas Master equivalent, is done, gone, never coming back. That was the price 20 years ago. High-end HO scale plastic locomotives are now selling in the $400 range.
Remember, these manufacturers/importers, e.g. 3rd Rail, are pricing these models as best they can to get built at the level we, the modeler, are demanding and not trying to take advantage of us. They need to keep the factories in China, Korea, Taiwan working to maintain a relationship for their niche model train business to continue so the manufacturers/importers want to meet the minimum quantities as much as we do. Their pricing just reflects the production costs in the anticipated volume that the model will sell. It is not like these importers/manufactures have a ton of leverage on driving prices down with their factories. Just look at Atlas (who does a lot more volume than 3rd rail), over the last 10 years as they have had a number of Asian factories tell them to take their "high volume" business elsewhere.
You will just have to remind your sweetheart that your hobby has revised financial demands that are commensurate with today's economy, or do what everyone else does and have it shipped to a friend and sneak it into the house in an unmarked box 
.
Scott
Did Midwestern Model Works deliver their project? Last I saw them was in the 2012 OSNC.
You will just have to remind your sweetheart that your hobby has revised financial demands that are commensurate with today's economy, or do what everyone else does and have it shipped to a friend and sneak it into the house in an unmarked box
If this is how you have act to buy trains for your hobby, you have problems that go far beyond anything financial.
@pitogo posted:Did Midwestern Model Works deliver their project? Last I saw them was in the 2012 OSNC.
The last update was over a year ago. I have a model reserved ($950) and I'm wondering if I'll see a model delivered or kiss that down payment goodbye.
I know you enter into these agreements as an open-ended contract where there is no set time frame for when the builder delivers the model but at some point there should be some recourse for the buyer.
I think Erik first mentioned doing an SD40-2 as far back as 2012. The SD45 project has yet to be delivered. Needless to say I'm having some 2nd thoughts.
