weathering things

Hi Bill how you doing? I believe most train guys prefer original untouched engine they lose some of the value when the engine has been altered in any way other times some will like the authentic looking to make the engine look in real life like the weathered real engine rustey fade believe most people like original untouched from MTH or Lionel! IMHO

Alan

I tend to agree with Alan. I weather everything and also add Kadee’s. I like the look and none of what I run is considered a collectable. As mentioned there are those that like the look. But for reselling at some point. You are definitely narrowing your group of buyers. Even if they are looking to buy and don’t mind weathering. They might not like the way yours was done and may want to start out with a blank canvas.  In a lot of cases it’s not worth the trouble of trying to remove or even re do it.

Weathering is a commitment. I think you have to be all in. For me it started with structures. Then rolling stock and engines. What I did last was the rails. Should have done them first. But back 30 years ago nobody was giving it a thought.

If your thinking of doing it. I would do up a small freight train and run it and see if it’s a direction you want to go.

Bill- totally a "in the eye of the beholder" thing.

Personally, all of my rolling stock and engines are un-weathered but I do appreciate a well done job.

Bob

If you are a model railroader (as am I, good or bad), then none of these things has any "resale value". I've never bought anything that I planned to sell. I have sold things, but only incidentally.

Shiny-shiny just begs to get dirty. On most things. There are exceptions (my ERR-upgraded Weaver Southern Ps-4 Tennessean Pacific will probably remain sparkly - unless I get a second one, which I won't...).

Someone's good weathering job actually makes something more appealing and valuable to me.

Years ago I purchased an Atlas woodsided Reefer on the auction site. There were a few for sale and the auctions were a few minutes apart. The seller was Don Smith of Industrial Scale Models. Well known in O 2 rail. None of the schemes offered were must haves for me. I landed the last one at a price I was comfortable paying. The others had gone for double or more of what I paid. I basically just bought the car to study his techniques seeing I do my own weathering. It’s weathered like an aged car and was as good as I’ve ever seen.
He places a sticker on the cars chassis noting it was done by him. So I’m guessing it might add some value if you are a fan of his work.

With regards to value, i have purchased a couple of weathered locos from a forum member moving on from the hobby.  Truth be told decent attempts at weathering, far better than i could do but apperance wise from a few feet away the best looking locos i have.  I think weathering requires a bit of courage, unlike scenery not easily undone.

Even though I know it's realistic, I can't bear to weather shiny passenger cars and their engines.  Just doesn't seem right.  So instead I say the trainset was just delivered from Budd or Pullman.  :-)

Freight equipment is different.  A thrashed, rusted out, faded, water-stained, filthy steamer looks amazing if done right.

I really love how weathering looks. Unfortunately I feel like if I have 1 locomotive weathered, then I'd need to have more weathered along with freight cars. A weathered steam locomotive would look odd with shiny freight. That's another rabbit hole of expense I'd rather not go down. At this time, I'm sticking to clean. As far as value, I'm sure someone would pay more if it was done right and it fit into their layout. I would never attempt it myself.

I tried to weather one freight car. I wasn't happy. I retried. I wasn't happy. I just don't think it's for me. To each his own. I've seen some amazing work that I am just not capable of. My entire layout is weathered. I guess I just can't master the cars. oh well

I can't bring myself to weather a brand new, expensive locomotive. I prefer to leave my locomotives and rolling stock looking as they arrived from the manufacturer but I lightly weather some structures on my model railroads. Although I strive to make my layouts look realistic, the structures don't have to look run down and dilapidated to be realistic. I prefer the like-new look of the engines and cars that I run. That lack of realism doesn't bother me and I wouldn't buy a locomotive that has been weathered. Nor do I sell anything...

MELGAR

If the model is 20+ years old and a runner then I don’t think weathering it is going to make a significant change in value.

In general I think weathering should tell a story about an engine. If it runs through a desert region then it should look dusty. If it pulls coal then weather black soot. If it’s 40 years old then add some rust.

As said above, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I bought a Lionel B&O steamer from @MrMuffin'sTrains, a Pacific or maybe a Mikado.  He sent it to Harry along with a matching set of MTH passenger cars.  I went with the heavier weathering and add-ons.  They look awesome, I mean really awesome.  I've had some other cars weathered and they look great too.   It looks a bit odd to run weathered items with non-weathered, but at the end of the day, I run what I like and so long as I like it, let's run it.  

John

I have both, I can’t bring myself to weather an expensive Lionel Steamer, but I have weather an 0-6-0 and am very happy with it. I’ve also weathered a Gp-9 LionChief and a Williams U-boat. As far as rolling stock I only weather mpc stuff and Menards cars. I’ll run all weathered trains and pristine trains, I like ‘em both.

Gary, why not learn to weather stuff yourself?  It's really not hard to do.

  I agree with Bob. With a little practice with an airbrush or some chalks it’s not that hard to just take the shine off. Especially if your modeling  more in the steam era. You can get by with probably 4 colors. Just adding a dusting of dirt and grime makes a big difference. A lot of what you see on You Tube tutorials is the more modern stuff that involves rust and patch panels and that can get pretty involved.

If your main interest is just running trains and not entering contests a light dusting is all you need. I can see anyone being nervous about doing an engine. If your not in your comfort zone. Find a pro who’s work you like and have them do it. As far as rolling stock. That can get expensive to have someone do. The one thing about weathering. It’s benefit is to make the details stand out or pop. Many advise practicing on junkers. Remember what you can buy cheap often is lacking in detail. It’s tough to practice making the details pop if there’s none there. For practicing. Size really doesn’t matter. If you can pickup a lot of cheap junker HO cars in the era that you run. They make great pallets. Seeing there’s 2 sides and 2 ends to the car. Try different techniques to you find one your comfortable with.

I model in HO.

I like to reflect engines that have received very hard use with minimal attention. (My fictional theme is a railroad that declared bankruptcy and is trying to reorganize, circa 1964.)

Weathering is not for everyone. AND, it looks its best when set among scenes where all of the models of man- made elements (signs, structures, vehicles, etc) reflect appropriate weathering.

However, I enjoy creating weathered engines using prototypes for inspirational guidance. It really brings a theme such as I've embraced (i.e. a bankrupt railroad trying to reorganize) to life and gives each engine character, some more so than others.

Some examples:

An old Alco that has had oil leak issues and has grime covered original paint...

One of the above's counterparts that received a repaint into the company's "Gulf Coast Blue and Mountain Mist Gray" scheme back in the early 1950s. The paint is now faded and eroded, and at some point it had a blown oil line that sprayed the inside of the hood doors...

And here's an old Geep that had a minor side swipe in a yard incident. It's had its handrails straightened as best the shop crew could, and patched up and put back into service, but still shows it's scars...

And here's an F3A wearing its original paint, albeit the paint is quite faded, eroded, and worn...

By weathering, I can give each engine a history and each has a story to tell. None of them will look exactly alike. For another example, here's another F3A, but this one has fared better than #300 and it's paint is in surprisingly good shape for its age and lack of attention...

And so it goes. Weathering adds an entirely new dimension to the modeling and gives each engine (and eventually my rolling stock) individuality.

However, make no mistake, it takes a while to learn the techniques and you WILL mess up when learning, so practice on older damaged shells/etc.

Andre

My railroad keeps its equipment it tip top shape and that means spending the time and money to wash all equipment as needed.  The engineers and crew members take pride in their company, job and equipment.  Customers appreciate clean and attractive trains know this railroad will take great care of their passengers and cargo.

Charlie

Some great photos of weathered engines here, though no scenery or buildings for reference.

There are fine yet blurry lines where toy-rail evolves to hi-rail evolves to scale-rail; I am comfortable in the realm between toy rail and hi-rail, which doesn't involve weathering but does involve making at least the track, scenery, and buildings a bit more realistic using basic techniques.

I appreciate weathered layouts, though I have to admit if the look of dirt and grime could get old, figuratively speaking.

If I decide to weather, it'd likely be everything, and that would require copious amounts of time = retirement, which is theoretical at this point.

Just some thoughts from my other hobbies.

If the original piece is a Plain Jane, low or moderate cost item, made in large numbers, and is old (but not 100 year old antique), then a nice custom paint job or great weathering job would probably add to its normal used resale value.

If the original piece was expensive, collectible, and beautifully customized with a paint job or weathering by a recognized artist, and kept otherwise NIB, then the customization may well add value to the piece, assuming it wasn't a super rare collectible.

Anything else, I would think that these customizations could drop the value by up to 50%, unless you find the one in a thousand buyer who just fell in love with it.

Mannyrock

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

My railroad keeps its equipment it tip top shape and that means spending the time and money to wash all equipment as needed.  The engineers and crew members take pride in their company, job and equipment.  Customers appreciate clean and attractive trains know this railroad will take great care of their passengers and cargo.

Charlie

Hi Charlie,

   I thought it was because you run such an efficient operation that dust and dirt could not settle on your constantly moving equipment?

Tom

@Mannyrock posted:

Just some thoughts from my other hobbies.

If the original piece is a Plain Jane, low or moderate cost item, made in large numbers, and is old (but not 100 year old antique), then a nice custom paint job or great weathering job would probably add to its normal used resale value.

If the original piece was expensive, collectible, and beautifully customized with a paint job or weathering by a recognized artist, and kept otherwise NIB, then the customization may well add value to the piece, assuming it wasn't a super rare collectible.

Anything else, I would think that these customizations could drop the value by up to 50%, unless you find the one in a thousand buyer who just fell in love with it.

Mannyrock

For anyone who views trains as an investment, try the stock market instead.

Trains are a hobby, meant to be enjoyed.  Worrying about a train's value in the future is NOT enjoying it.  I plan to have fun with my weathered trains for as long as I can.  The next owner can like them or not, will pay top dollar or not, I won't care.  I will have drained the 'fun equity' out of them by then.

@Bob posted:

For anyone who views trains as an investment, try the stock market instead.

Trains are a hobby, meant to be enjoyed.  Worrying about a train's value in the future is NOT enjoying it.  I plan to have fun with my weathered trains for as long as I can.  The next owner can like them or not, will pay top dollar or not, I won't care.  I will have drained the 'fun equity' out of them by then.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!

The big difference between "Model Railroaders", regardless of scale, and the "Toy Train group", is that the true modelers are attempting to "model" the prototype, regardless of era. Thus EVERYTHING is properly weathered, i.e. locomotives, cars, track structure & right of way, and buildings.

If you two are/were such "true" modelers, what's with the 3 rail track?

ECI

PS: When are you going to start dinging and denting your models? It happens to the real stuff!

@Bill Park posted:

. . . I purchased a Lionel Mohawk last year from Mr. Muffins Trains and there were options for light or heavy weathering. I chose light weathering and the engine looks very realistic . . . Bill

Light weathering does look more realistic.  If you don't think something is sufficiently weathered, you can always do additional weathering, but, if something is "over-weathered" the solution is not so easy.

Many would agree that weathering looks best when done slowly and deliberately, with finesse, not quickly airbrushed, which often does not have a pleasantly weathered appearance.

@Hot Water posted:

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!

The big difference between "Model Railroaders", regardless of scale, and the "Toy Train group", is that the true modelers are attempting to "model" the prototype, regardless of era. Thus EVERYTHING is properly weathered, i.e. locomotives, cars, track structure & right of way, and buildings.

I couldn't agree more!  I am at the weathered all my buildings and track stage.  I will pay a premium for expertly weathered cars or engines.  I have weathered a few cars and feel I haven't completely mastered the process yet.  I'm intimidated about using an air brush, but have one that is waiting for me to get up the courage.

Concerning things losing their value, I agree with those that advise not to worry about that.  If your buying them for their resale value, you most likely will be very disappointed.  I know many of us have a lot invested in this hobby, but I look at like paying for a vacation, enjoy it if you can afford it and cherish the memories.  I am not trying to put down anyone that disagrees with me.  This is just my two cents worth if it is even worth that.

Art

@EastCoastIron posted:

If you two are/were such "true" modelers, what's with the 3 rail track?

ECI

PS: When are you going to start dinging and denting your models? It happens to the real stuff!

I want to make my railroad look as good to me as my limited skills and budget will allow.  I like things to look as realistic as I can, but draw the line with graffiti, major dents, and etc.  Since it's my railroad, I get to set the rules that I like.  I keep my passenger equipment looking like it just left the wash rack, just like I think some of the real railroads did in the "glory days" of passenger trains.  I hope no one thinks I'm trying to judge the way that any one else choses to do their layout, I'm not.  It's your railroad and should do what makes you happy.  Good thread, let's all try to be respectful and tolerant with each other's ideas and views.

Art 

Great posts here!

Count me in the "Toy Train Group", because I've never paid more than $30 for a car, or $225 for an engine, and I'm going to do whatever I want to all of them, just for the fun of it.  Plainly, long term, I don't believe that model trains are an investment hobby.

When I die, my wife will put "all of the stuff" in a box, take it down to the train shop in the big flea market building three miles away, and give it to them.

I'll probably be down below, chained to a train layout, being whipped by demons who make me do modeling and weathering for all of eternity!  :-)

Mannyrock,

The basic gist of my post is: We all like different things! Do whatever pleases you and enjoy the hobby. When you start financing my stuff, you can dictate what I do! What I do and why I do it is my business.

ECI

PS: I totally agree with you Chugman!

@EastCoastIron posted:

If you two are/were such "true" modelers, what's with the 3 rail track?

ECI

PS: When are you going to start dinging and denting your models? It happens to the real stuff!

When I transitioned from HO to O Scale, I did NOT have enough space to build a 2-Rail layout that would accommodate the large, modern steam locomotives that I desired. However, I COULD build a fairly large 3-Rail SCALE layout, with large enough curves for the largest steam locomotive models.

Please check out the OGR DVD "Great Layout Adventures VOL 8", and see what you think? The "weathered in" 3rd rail never bothered me. Now, concerning "dinged  and dented" models, yes I dad some of them also. Also please check out OGR Magazine Run 244 (August/September 2010 for some additional photos.

If you would like to discuss/argue about this further, I'd be more than happy.

I weather my structures and layout elements only. No weathering on my trains. I won't buy them if they are weathered.

That is my preference. Everyone has their own approach to things. I wouldn't let value dissuade you from weathering them if you like them that way. The real value is in the enjoyment you get out of the hobby, not what they will bring on the market.

I especially like my gondolas weathered and dented. Cabeese just dusted. Stock cars look realistic to me with s…running down the side. I will pay a premium for a car weathered to my taste. Most weathered steam engines are in my opinion overdone.

People need to be weathered sometimes, too!

I have a pair of these beautiful 4-8-4s imported by a guy several years ago and sold in a limited amount. I can't remember his name and there are no markings on the locos or tenders. I have 3458 and 3751. I can't bring myself to weather them.

The basic gist of this is, we all do things as we prefer/as our bank accounts allow. I'm a 2 railer, but I'm not going over to the 3 rail forum and read everybody the riot act about their track!. Like the old "Sly" song: Different strokes for different folks! Have fun!

ECI not weathering