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A while back the subject came up if Weaver passenger cars ever had interiors. Most all I have seen only have darkened windows except one Hiawatha set I saw at York. Today a set with interiors arrived at my door. It too is a Hiawatha set. No part number, only a description "Hiawatha Morning Train". It consists of 3 coaches, a cafe, and a beaver tail w/o fins, observation. All but the cafe have interiors as you can see below. The cafe has the more common dark windows and no lighting. No figures but I will add those and likely add an interior to the cafe.

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Pete

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@Krieglok posted:

Nice car there Pete. The car has a realistic warm look to it.

Can interiors be found for sale? I have a number of K-Line and Older MTH cars that could use them….

Tom

Tom, I have seen interiors come up on the auction site from time to plus you can get seats from a few places like Scale City. I am keeping an eye out for a diner interior for the cafe car on this train.
I have a Weaver Atlantic to go with these which matches up perfectly.

Pete

@Norton posted:

The cars now coupled with the Weaver Atlantic as the good lord intended. This engine has been upgraded with a big Pittman motor and ERR Cruise among other things. Pulling this train of all metal cars only draws .7 amps total according the my Z4000 which typically reads 20% higher than my Fluke.

That's one great looking train, the Milwaukee Road paint scheme is one of my favorites!  There are just too many neat road names to model or I'd be lusting for that set as well!

Thanks guys. I was fortunate enough to find the engine before the prices went crazy. Got a deal on the cars too. I could have three to four of these trains vs what a Strasburg set will set you back depending on how many cars you get.

BTW I may be selling my Lionel cars now that I have these. Stay tuned

Pete

Last edited by Norton
@Norton posted:

A while back the subject came up if Weaver passenger cars ever had interiors. Most all I have seen only have darkened windows except one Hiawatha set I saw at York. Today a set with interiors arrived at my door. It too is a Hiawatha set. No part number, only a description "Hiawatha Morning Train". It consists of 3 coaches, a cafe, and a beaver tail w/o fins, observation. All but the cafe have interiors as you can see below. The cafe has the more common dark windows and no lighting. No figures but I will add those and likely add an interior to the cafe.

image

Pete

I have this set ( the 1934 series cars)  , and Weaver did a Great job , representing the  Hiawatha consist. (all though there should be at least 2 more cars) . The interiors, are a nice touch, and I wish they had Installed them in the 1936, and 38 series cars , and not installed those green widows.

I have this set ( the 1934 series cars)  , and Weaver did a Great job , representing the  Hiawatha consist. (all though there should be at least 2 more cars) . The interiors, are a nice touch, and I wish they had Installed them in the 1936, and 38 series cars , and not installed those green widows.

I added a couple of MTH heavyweights to make a train a bit longer. No idea if its prototype as MR is not my main interest.

Also, FWIW the cars arrived two rail. I ran them for hours on the clubs three rail layout with no problems but have since replaced the trucks with MTH trucks. If you are looking for a three rail set and a two rail set comes up, buy it.

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Pete

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Last edited by Norton
@Norton posted:

I added a couple of MTH heavyweights to make a train a bit longer. No idea if its prototype as MR is not my main interest.

Also, FWIW the cars arrived two rail. I ran them for hours on the clubs three rail layout with no problems but have since replaced the trucks with MTH trucks. If you are looking for a three rail set and a two rail set comes up, buy it.

Pete

Pete - Beautiful Set!

If you want to know all about the Hiawatha, get the book "The Hiawatha Story" by Jim Scribbins.  It is the definitive work.  Kinda like "Thoroughbreds" by Staufer is for NYC Hudsons.

Just a note Weavers pairing the A class 4-4-2 with the 19934 cars is at least correct . Since Lonel's first production of the Hiawatha in the 1930's to its last one. they never did get it right!

The four Hiawatha Atlantics did indeed haul the later 1938 cars, as depicted in Lionel’s 2006 set. The Hiawatha Hudsons took over afterward. All this is referenced in Jim Scribbins’ book, “The Hiawatha Story.”

But I’m glad Weaver released models of the first Hiawatha train, which matched the Atlantics’ styling cues more exactly. (The Hudsons were a better match for the 1938 ribsided cars.)

Last edited by Jim R.
@Jim R. posted:

The four Hiawatha Atlantics did indeed haul the later 1938 cars, as depicted in Lionel’s 2006 set. The Hiawatha Hudsons took over afterward. All this is referenced in Jim Scribbins’ book, “The Hiawatha Story.”

But I’m glad Weaver released models of the first Hiawatha train, which matched the Atlantics’ styling cues more exactly. (The Hudsons were a better match for the 1930 ribsided cars.

@Jim R. posted:

The four Hiawatha Atlantics did indeed haul the later 1938 cars, as depicted in Lionel’s 2006 set. The Hiawatha Hudsons took over afterward. All this is referenced in Jim Scribbins’ book, “The Hiawatha Story.”

But I’m glad Weaver released models of the first Hiawatha train, which matched the Atlantics’ styling cues more exactly. (The Hudsons were a better match for the 1930 ribsided cars.)

Yup They did Pull the Ribbed cars, 4 years after the initiation of Hiawatha service!   The F7 shrouded  4-6-4's were  Intended  (designed) to  pull the New 1938 series ribbed cars.   

I have the "Morning Train" as well.    It is a beautiful set.  According to Paul Fischer (an expert Milwaukee modeler) the interiors are standard Pullman-Bradley interiors from Weaver.  He extensively modified his cars in this thread.  I also wondered why the cafe car had no interior.  I presume the answer was that Weaver had a coach interior from the P-B cars, but didn't have a diner or cafe interior.  So it was better to blank the interior than to insert coach seats into a cafe car.

Here is a link to the catalog in which it appears from 2005.  This catalog says "detailed interiors with seating" but the 2006 catalog qualifies that the cafe car has "tinted windows and overhead lighting." Some of the Weaver passenger sets had 2 add-on cars, but I've never seen one for this set, nor is it in the 2005 or 2006 catalogs.  I lengthen my train with one or more of these:

IMG_2564IMG_2565IMG_2567IMG_2566

The last (orange) Lionel milk car is a recent issue and is likely still available.  The others were special runs from the Lionel Railroad Club in Milwaukee and are hard (or expensive) to find.

glacier runner,

Here is the "Beavertail" end of the observation car:

IMG_2568

Bob

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What a fabulous bike trail!  I did it a few years ago.  I did the 22 downhill miles with probably the slowest time in history.  I stopped to take a couple hundred pictures.

I became a Milwaukee Road fan after seeing the cover story in their 50th Anniversary January 1984 Model Railroader magazine.  So when the Hiawatha Trail opened, it was on my bucket list.

The Great Northern has some beautiful engines.  I was tempted by the 2-8-8-0  with the green boiler, but I already have engines from too many railroads.

Bob

Last edited by RRDOC

Just a note Weavers pairing the A class 4-4-2 with the 19934 cars is at least correct . Since Lonel's first production of the Hiawatha in the 1930's to its last one. they never did get it right!

My Lionel cars are what started it for me. Saw the cars at a decent price and snapped them up. The Lionel Atlantics were already starting to go for big bucks and then my Weaver showed up at what I thought was a reasonable price. Put the engine in front of the cars and realized that wasn’t going to work. Colors and striping was way off.

Weaver cars came along and that sealed the deal.
Baltics were also getting pricey until this Weaver became available. Colors are off but at least the striping is on.

Anyone have an MTH Baltic with Lionel cars? Curious if the colors are any closer.

Lionel cars are fine cars. I am a big fan of their 18” metal cars. Just not the coupling distance and in this case the colors.

79CDA707-6E62-4A75-81E4-85EE0FD155B2

Pete

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@RRDOC posted:

What a fabulous bike trail!  I did it a few years ago.  I did the 22 downhill miles with probably the slowest time in history.  I stopped to take a couple hundred pictures.

I became a Milwaukee Road fan after seeing the cover story in their 50th Anniversary January 1984 Model Railroader magazine.  So when the Hiawatha Trail opened, it was on my bucket list.

The Great Northern has some beautiful engines.  I was tempted by the 2-8-8-0  with the green boiler, but I already have engines from too many railroads.

Bob

This same MR issue is what turned me into a Hiawatha Atlantic nut. I was crazily happy when Lionel issued an accurate scale model of it in 2006, followed by Fox Valley Models doing the same in N scale several years later.

The fictional story in that 1984 issue, about a long-lost Hiawatha Atlantic being found in an Iowa field and restored to tour railroads (model railroads in several scales) was compelling and, for me at least, seductive.

Here’s my photo of my Lionel Hiawatha Atlantic running on the Milwaukee Lionel Railroad Club a few years ago.

71015A69-6403-431F-8424-226F7F01CA40

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Last edited by Jim R.

FWIW Here are the 3 Weaver Milwaukee Passenger trains and add-on cars that were sold (Afternoon Train, Morning Train, Rib Side cars).  I am not clear on which add-on cars match which train, but I know they are very hard to find.

PROD.#STYLE / CLASSROADNAMECAB #'SYEARPRICECOLORPASSENGER CAR SETARRIVAL DATEDISCONTINUED DATE
1231-S/L5 CAR PASSENGER SET (ALUM.) / 80' SMOOTH SIDES - CLASSIC BEAVER TAILHIAWATHA "AFTERNOON TRAIN"SEE COLUMN H2000$625.00ORANGE/REDEXPRESS TAP 151         DINER 100         COACH 400         PARLOR - IAGOO         OBSERVATION - OMEME    3RD RUN/ 7/16/04
1276-S/L5-CAR PASSENGER SET / BEAVER TAIL OBSERVATION/
EXTRUDED ALUMINUM BODIES
HIAWATHA "MORNING TRAIN"SEE COLUMN H2005$675.00BODY/ ORANGE
ROOF/ GRAY
STRIPS/ RED
PRINT/ GOLD
SIDE BOTTOM/ BROWN
CAFÉ - CAFÉ
COACH - 4419
PARLOR - MINNEWAWA
PARLOR - ISHKOODAH
OBSERVATION - WENONAH
2/21/05
1230-S/L5 CAR PASSENGER SET (ALUM.) / 80' RIBBED SIDES-FINNED BEAVER TAIL OBSERVATIONHIAWATHASEE COLUMN H2000$625.00ORANGE/REDEXPRESS TAP 153         DINER 109         COACH 437         PARLOR - CHANDLER         OBSERVATION - EARLING    3RD RUN/ 7/16/04
1613-S/L2 CAR ADD-ON SETHIAWATHASEE COLUMN H2001$259.00MILWAUKEE ROAD ORANGE / MAROONWHITTEMORE, 440
1614-S/L2 CAR ADD-ON SETHIAWATHASEE COLUMN H2001$259.00MILWAUKEE ROAD ORANGE / MAROONSAHWA, 416
1615-S/LSINGLE COACHHIAWATHA4392001$135.00MILWAUKEE ROAD ORANGE / MAROON439
1616-S/LSINGLE COACHHIAWATHA4112001$135.00MILWAUKEE ROAD ORANGE / MAROON411
Last edited by RRDOC
@RRDOC posted:

FWIW Here are the 3 Weaver Milwaukee Passenger trains and add-on cars that were sold (Afternoon Train, Morning Train, Rib Side cars).  I am not clear on which add-on cars match which train, but I know they are very hard to find.

PROD.#STYLE / CLASSROADNAMECAB #'SYEARPRICECOLORPASSENGER CAR SETARRIVAL DATEDISCONTINUED DATE
1231-S/L5 CAR PASSENGER SET (ALUM.) / 80' SMOOTH SIDES - CLASSIC BEAVER TAILHIAWATHA "AFTERNOON TRAIN"SEE COLUMN H2000$625.00ORANGE/REDEXPRESS TAP 151         DINER 100         COACH 400         PARLOR - IAGOO         OBSERVATION - OMEME   3RD RUN/ 7/16/04
1276-S/L5-CAR PASSENGER SET / BEAVER TAIL OBSERVATION/
EXTRUDED ALUMINUM BODIES
HIAWATHA "MORNING TRAIN"SEE COLUMN H2005$675.00BODY/ ORANGE
ROOF/ GRAY
STRIPS/ RED
PRINT/ GOLD
SIDE BOTTOM/ BROWN
CAFÉ - CAFÉ
COACH - 4419
PARLOR - MINNEWAWA
PARLOR - ISHKOODAH
OBSERVATION - WENONAH
2/21/05
1230-S/L5 CAR PASSENGER SET (ALUM.) / 80' RIBBED SIDES-FINNED BEAVER TAIL OBSERVATIONHIAWATHASEE COLUMN H2000$625.00ORANGE/REDEXPRESS TAP 153         DINER 109         COACH 437         PARLOR - CHANDLER         OBSERVATION - EARLING   3RD RUN/ 7/16/04
1613-S/L2 CAR ADD-ON SETHIAWATHASEE COLUMN H2001$259.00MILWAUKEE ROAD ORANGE / MAROONWHITTEMORE, 440
1614-S/L2 CAR ADD-ON SETHIAWATHASEE COLUMN H2001$259.00MILWAUKEE ROAD ORANGE / MAROONSAHWA, 416
1615-S/LSINGLE COACHHIAWATHA4392001$135.00MILWAUKEE ROAD ORANGE / MAROON439
1616-S/LSINGLE COACHHIAWATHA4112001$135.00MILWAUKEE ROAD ORANGE / MAROON411

Im Lucky enough to have all 3 sets, now to find the extra cars

@Norton posted:

My Lionel cars are what started it for me. Saw the cars at a decent price and snapped them up. The Lionel Atlantics were already starting to go for big bucks and then my Weaver showed up at what I thought was a reasonable price. Put the engine in front of the cars and realized that wasn’t going to work. Colors and striping was way off.

Weaver cars came along and that sealed the deal.
Baltics were also getting pricey until this Weaver became available. Colors are off but at least the striping is on.

Anyone have an MTH Baltic with Lionel cars? Curious if the colors are any closer.

Lionel cars are fine cars. I am a big fan of their 18” metal cars. Just not the coupling distance and in this case the colors.

79CDA707-6E62-4A75-81E4-85EE0FD155B2

Pete

No the colors are a little off, but not sure that its really that bad. I find it odd that  all 3 mfgrs didnt bother to get the paint numbers from the archives

Dave, does the 1276 set have smooth sides and beavertail like 1231 and No interior? Thanks, Don

My set boxes and 2 of my sets are in my store room, But let me give you  a quick overview. 

The 1934\35 cars   Smooth sided, arched windows on the sides. The Beaver Tail , had 2 triangular arched window at the back.  Pictured above

The 1936 /37 cars   Smooth sided with the addition of a rib above and below the window, which are now square. not arched.  The  Beaver Tail now has 4 window , square.

The 1938 to 42 cars  has the Ribbed sides, with a variety of windows . The  Beaver Tail  had 2 rectangular horizontal windows and the plywood fins.

The A class shrouded 4-4-2 Atlantic's were the largest , and fastest  ever built!  They were the first steam engines to be built for shrouding and intended for the first  2 series of light weight cars. but pulled everything in their years of service .  The Shrouded  F7 4-6-4 ( Baltics)  were re builds and up graded in the MR shops. It was long known Baltics could handle the 110 MPH service as well as longer heavier  trains ,  until the New deiseal locomotives came on line.

Note : all these style cars were run in Hiawatha service .  The A class,  the F7's , Shrouded Pacific's as well as 2 shrouded ten wheelers  all pulled these cars on one of the many Hiawatha routes during their service on "The Road"

Dave, thanks for all the additional information!! At any time were these engines and cars ever used on the western lines? I live in Missoula, Montana and I only see pictures of electric engines!

Cars Yes, the usually came out of the passenger car pool, they were usually spotted were they were needed.   As far as engines they were usually spotted at their Divisions, both electric and steam, I have never seen a photo or an account of one of the shrouded engines  on that part of The Road.  Although one of those Krill units from 3rd rail would look right at home in the lead

My set boxes and 2 of my sets are in my store room, But let me give you  a quick overview.

The 1934\35 cars   Smooth sided, arched windows on the sides. The Beaver Tail , had 2 triangular arched window at the back.  Pictured above

The 1936 /37 cars   Smooth sided with the addition of a rib above and below the window, which are now square. not arched.  The  Beaver Tail now has 4 window , square.

The 1938 to 42 cars  has the Ribbed sides, with a variety of windows . The  Beaver Tail  had 2 rectangular horizontal windows and the plywood fins.

The A class shrouded 4-4-2 Atlantic's were the largest , and fastest  ever built!  They were the first steam engines to be built for shrouding and intended for the first  2 series of light weight cars. but pulled everything in their years of service .  The Shrouded  F7 4-6-4 ( Baltics)  were re builds and up graded in the MR shops. It was long known Baltics could handle the 110 MPH service as well as longer heavier  trains ,  until the New deiseal locomotives came on line.

Note : all these style cars were run in Hiawatha service .  The A class,  the F7's , Shrouded Pacific's as well as 2 shrouded ten wheelers  all pulled these cars on one of the many Hiawatha routes during their service on "The Road"

From what I know, the F7 Baltics were all built in 1938 by American Locomotive Works! Their design was a product of Otto Kuhler.  That third set of rib cars arrived sooner than the Baltics, but as soon as the F7s arrived they pulled the ribbed cars. The Milwaukee Road shrouded 4-6-2s and 4-6-0s in the home shops.

As for the original consist that the "A"s pulled in the very beginning were: Tip top tap; 3 coaches; parlor car; and the Beaver Tail. Business was brisk and the Milwaukee had to add extra cars.

Last edited by Jeff B. Haertlein

From what I know, the F7 Baltics were all built in 1938 by American Locomotive Works! Their design was a product of Otto Kuhler.  That third set of rib cars arrived sooner than the Baltics, but as soon as the F7s arrived they pulled the ribbed cars. The Milwaukee Road shrouded 4-6-2s and 4-6-0s in the home shops.

As for the original consist that the "A"s pulled in the very beginning were: Tip top tap; 3 coaches; parlor car; and the Beaver Tail. Business was brisk and the Milwaukee had to add extra cars.

You are correct! they were made by Alco and delivered shrouded  All six of them !

Dave, thanks for all the additional information!! At any time were these engines and cars ever used on the western lines? I live in Missoula, Montana and I only see pictures of electric engines!

The Hiawatha's were Streamliners.

The Olympian Hiawatha started service June 29, 1947.  Prior to that date, service was provided over the Olympian route with MAINLY Heavyweight Equipment.   Keep in mind that the earlier Hiawatha Equipment discussed here was for "Day Trains".  The first Hiawatha Sleeping Cars were built for the 1947 train.

Of course the Milwaukee had electrified the Rocky Mountain Division by 1917 as it worked MUCH better than trying to run steam trains through the mountain ranges.  Electric equipment was used ALMOST exclusively in this area for both Freight and Passenger Service.

All new equipment was ordered for The Olympian Hiawatha including Diesel Locomotives.

So the answer is PROBABLY NOT, however there could have been an "exceptions".

https://streamlinermemories.in...w/Milw73EndofEra.pdf

Last edited by MainLine Steam

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