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Most JEP passenger train sets came with a red postal van, a grey baggage car and one (or more) passenger cars. The Flechette set I have only had, apart from the 4-4-0 brown NORD locomotive  a baggage car and a blue and creme passenger car; this week I found the matching postal van:

mceclip1

And since it was raining day after day I shot a video inside and not in the gartden:

Regards

Fred

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Kitbashed Dairymen’s League Co-Operative Reefer

  Back in the 9/29/17 Edition of the Weekend Tinplate Photos/Videos thread Dennis Holler showed us his find of a homemade Hiawatha set.  I commented on the set and provided a picture of the single homemade “kitbashed” tinplate car which I acquired several years ago. Like everything else, the world of toy trains is constantly changing and so with this issue of Weekend Tinplate Photos/Videos I will report that the count of kitbashed tinplate on my railroad now numbers 2.

  Earlier this month a seller on E-bay offered three kitbashed tinplate cars (below) for separate sale which someone, probably in the 1930’s, reworked in an attempt to look more prototypical. 

Dairymen's League Milk Reefer

Ebay_Dairymens_League_Milk_Reefer

NYC Express

Ebay_NYC_Express_Car

Erie Caboose

Ebay_Erie_Caboose

  The seller indicated he thought the cars might be of Ives manufacture.  While I could see all three had Ives couplers I could also see the caboose was basically an American Flyer caboose and that both of the express reefers had early American Flyer trucks sans wheels and axles.

   If we compare a picture of an original American Flyer caboose (below) with the picture of the kitbashed caboose it is obvious that, of the three cars, the caboose received the largest number of modifications.

 American Flyer #3211

AF3211

  These include the addition of roof top ladder handrails to the ladders at either end of the car, a smokestack, under carriage storage boxes, caboose lantern hangers at one end, and brake wheels on both platforms.  The caboose was also the only car with a hand painted railroad logo. 

  The two express reefers appeared to be the same car type and looked to have received the same physical modifications – an addition of a brake wheel and staff, the removal of a tabbed on ladder stamping on the car sides, and possibly the addition of early American Flyer trucks.  I say possibly because, based on the pictures, I couldn’t determine the manufacturer of the reefers so I wasn’t entirely sure about component originality.  Of the three, I liked the hand lettering of the Dairymen’s car the most so I put in a bid just for that car. It was the only bid the car received and I won the auction. 

  When the car arrived I looked it over and found that long-ago modeler had painted only the body and left the frame in original paint.  A look inside the car revealed that the original colors of the doors and door guides were orange and the roof had been blue.  A check of the underside of the frame indicated the couplers had not been changed, the trucks were Type II style American Flyer from 1914-1924 which had been substituted for the originals and, based on the car body tabs, the original finish of the car itself had been a pale blue litho.  After this inspection I realized all three cars were Lionel/Ives, Flyer/Ives transition cars.  The caboose is the Flyer based Ives caboose #121 from 1929-1930 and my car is the Lionel/Ives litho boxcar #1709 from 1932. This car has the same general appearance as the Lionel #2719 (below).

Lionel #2719

Lionel2719

      The American Flyer trucks would have originally been painted with gloss black enamel.  The modeler had stripped off the gloss paint and repainted the truck frames in flat black.  He also applied flat black paint to the Ives couplers.  The brake wheel and staff are Lionel. The bracket for the staff is homemade and all are soldered to one end of the car. The modeler painted the brass staff and wheel flat black.

   After the inspection I realized that, as the head of the backshop for the Ophir and Oblivion Railroad, some work would be required before this car was roadworthy. The first order of business was to get some replacement wheels and axles.  A quick check with the Ophir and Oblivion parts department turned up a pair of Flyer trucks on the scrap line with the necessary hardware.

The brake wheel staff needed straightening. Some elbow grease in association with two pair of flat nosed, parallel surface pliers clamped above and below the staff bracket remedied that problem.  

  The next item on the agenda was cleaning.  The car was filthy. I tested some automotive cleaning wax on a part of the roof and, much to my delight, discovered that underneath all of the grime was a thick coat of gloss olive enamel.  It took some time to clean the car.  I was especially careful with the hand lettering (lots of Q-tips and patience) but once all of the grime was removed I found myself with a reasonable looking piece of kitbashed rolling stock.

  The car has several interesting features.  An examination of an accurate model of the prototype indicates the modeler did a very credible job with respect to the lettering. 

Prototype Model of Dairymen's League

Prototype_Dairymens_League

My guess is he chose flat black paint and early AF trucks in order to give the suggestion of express trucks. True, AF trucks don’t look like express trucks but they do look different from the Ives transition trucks such as those on the kitbashed caboose just as real express trucks look quite different from standard freight car trucks.

    The modeler removed the tabbed ladder from the car side – I’m assuming this was done because retaining the ladder would have detracted from giving the sleek appearance of the prototype. If my guess is correct then this is in curious contrast to the brake wheel and staff which is not a feature on the prototype.

  The final item of interest is the lettering itself.  The quality of the work on the car sides is evident.  What is also evident is the apparent “evolution” of the lettering on the car. The end lettering on the brake wheel side is crude and uneven, the end lettering on the other side is an improvement over the brake wheel side and, of course, the lettering of the car sides is well done.

Brake wheel end

DLeague_EndA_as_received

Opposite End

DLeague_EndB

Why the differences in lettering quality?  Who knows. Maybe the brake wheel side was the first attempt at hand lettering, the other end was the second try and the car sides represent the pinnacle of the hand lettering learning curve, or maybe the difference is due to something else entirely – at this late date we’ll never know. 

  I decided to leave the trucks and couplers as they are but, since the flat black paint was flaking off and since this car will be part of my tinplate consists, I applied Brasso to the brake wheel and staff and returned them to their polished brass state. So…after a little elbow grease, TLC, and a replacement set of wheels and axles the Ophir and Oblivion has a new piece of rolling stock:

Ready-to-Roll Dairymen's League

Kitbash_Dairymens League

  …and when I put this car next to Flyer and Ives cars of the period it looks right at home.

Dairymen's League and Friends

Dairymens League and Friends

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  • AF3211
  • Lionel2719
  • Prototype_Dairymens_League
  • DLeague_EndA_as_received
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  • Kitbash_Dairymens League
  • Dairymens League and Friends
Last edited by Robert S. Butler

First of all let me wish all of our contributors and readers a Happy Thanksgiving from our house to yours.

Robert,

I looked at those cars as well. I made a decision years ago not to add kitbashed items to the collection. Of course I have violated that decision on a few occasions by buying some repainted items.  I enjoyed your sleuthing into the origins of the car.  I am glad that the car went to someone who appreciates its origins and will preserve it for the future as an example of early production and the ingenuity of model railroaders over the years. Thanks for a great article and illustrations. Nice job!

Dave,

That looks like another great project for your restoration yards.  I look forward to seeing what you do with it.

Here are a few photos of the display that I set up last weekend.  I intended to document the process of setting it up, but I got so busy that I forgot to take the photos along the way.  I also managed to misplace a box of track so the inner loop isn't completed yet.  I found the box once I got back home, so there will be more work to do on the railroad.

Loading up

Laying the foundation

Magic

Have a Great Tinplate Weekend

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

 

Last edited by Greg J. Turinetti
Robert S. Butler posted:

Kitbashed Dairymen’s League Co-Operative Reefer

  Back in the 9/29/17 Edition of the Weekend Tinplate Photos/Videos thread Dennis Holler showed us his find of a homemade Hiawatha set.  I commented on the set and provided a picture of the single homemade “kitbashed” tinplate car which I acquired several years ago. Like everything else, the world of toy trains is constantly changing and so with this issue of Weekend Tinplate Photos/Videos I will report that the count of kitbashed tinplate on my railroad now numbers 2.

  Earlier this month a seller on E-bay offered three kitbashed tinplate cars (below) which someone, probably in the 1930’s, reworked in an attempt to look more prototypical. 

Dairymen's League Milk Reefer

Ebay_Dairymens_League_Milk_Reefer

NYC Express

Ebay_NYC_Express_Car

Erie Caboose

Ebay_Erie_Caboose

  The seller indicated he thought the cars might be of Ives manufacture.  While I could see all three had Ives couplers I could also see the caboose was basically an American Flyer caboose and that both of the express reefers had early American Flyer trucks sans wheels and axles.

   If we compare a picture of an original American Flyer caboose (below) with the picture of the kitbashed caboose it is obvious that, of the three cars, the caboose received the largest number of modifications.

 American Flyer #3211

AF3211

  These include the addition of roof top ladder handrails to the ladders at either end of the car, a smokestack, under carriage storage boxes, caboose lantern hangers at one end, and brake wheels on both platforms.  The caboose was also the only car with a hand painted railroad logo. 

  The two express reefers appeared to be the same car type and looked to have received the same physical modifications – an addition of a brake wheel and staff, the removal of a tabbed on ladder stamping on the car sides, and possibly the addition of early American Flyer trucks.  I say possibly because, based on the pictures, I couldn’t determine the manufacturer of the reefers so I wasn’t entirely sure about component originality.  I liked the hand lettering of the Dairymen’s car so I put in the only bid the car received and won the auction. 

  When the car arrived I looked it over and found that long-ago modeler had painted only the body and left the frame in original paint.  A look inside the car revealed that the original colors of the doors and door guides were orange and the roof had been blue.  A check of the underside of the frame indicated the couplers had not been changed, the trucks were Type II style American Flyer from 1914-1924 which had been substituted for the originals and, based on the car body tabs, the original finish of the car itself had been a pale blue litho.  After this inspection I realized all three cars were Lionel/Ives, Flyer/Ives transition cars.  The caboose is the Flyer based Ives caboose #121 from 1929-1930 and my car is the Lionel/Ives litho boxcar #1709 from 1932. This car has the same general appearance as the Lionel #2719 (below).

Lionel #2719

Lionel2719

      The American Flyer trucks would have originally been painted with gloss black enamel.  The modeler had stripped off the gloss paint and repainted the truck frames in flat black.  He also applied flat black paint to the Ives couplers.  The brake wheel and staff are Lionel. The bracket for the staff is homemade and all are soldered to one end of the car. The modeler painted the brass staff and wheel flat black.

   After the inspection I realized that, as the head of the backshop for the Ophir and Oblivion Railroad, some work would be required before this car was roadworthy. The first order of business was to get some replacement wheels and axles.  A quick check with the Ophir and Oblivion parts department turned up a pair of Flyer trucks on the scrap line with the necessary hardware.

The brake wheel staff needed straightening. Some elbow grease in association with two pair of flat nosed, parallel surface pliers clamped above and below the staff bracket remedied that problem.  

  The next item on the agenda was cleaning.  The car was filthy. I tested some automotive cleaning wax on a part of the roof and, much to my delight, discovered that underneath all of the grime was a thick coat of gloss olive enamel.  It took some time to clean the car.  I was especially careful with the hand lettering (lots of Q-tips and patience) but once all of the grime was removed I found myself with a reasonable looking piece of kitbashed rolling stock.

  The car has several interesting features.  An examination of an accurate model of the prototype indicates the modeler did a very credible job with respect to the lettering. 

Prototype Model of Dairymen's League

Prototype_Dairymens_League

My guess is he chose flat black paint and early AF trucks in order to give the suggestion of express trucks. True, AF trucks don’t look like express trucks but they do look different from the Ives transition trucks such as those on the kitbashed caboose just as real express trucks look quite different from standard freight car trucks.

    The modeler removed the tabbed ladder from the car side – I’m assuming this was done because retaining the ladder would have detracted from giving the sleek appearance of the prototype. If my guess is correct then this is in curious contrast to the brake wheel and staff which is not a feature on the prototype.

  The final item of interest is the lettering itself.  The quality of the work on the car sides is evident.  What is also evident is the apparent “evolution” of the lettering on the car. The end lettering on the brake wheel side is crude and uneven, the end lettering on the other side is an improvement over the brake wheel side and, of course, the lettering of the car sides is well done.

Brake wheel end

DLeague_EndA_as_received

Opposite End

DLeague_EndB

Why the differences in lettering quality?  Who knows. Maybe the brake wheel side was the first attempt at hand lettering, the other end was the second try and the car sides represent the pinnacle of the hand lettering learning curve, or maybe the difference is due to something else entirely – at this late date we’ll never know. 

  I decided to leave the trucks and couplers as they are but, since the flat black paint was flaking off and since this car will be part of my tinplate consists, I applied Brasso to the brake wheel and staff and returned them to their polished brass state. So…after a little elbow grease, TLC, and a replacement set of wheels and axles the Ophir and Oblivion has a new piece of rolling stock (11/18/17):

Ready-to-Roll Dairymen's League

Kitbash_Dairymens League

  …and when I put this car next to Flyer and Ives cars of the period it looks right at home.

Dairymen's League and Friends

Dairymens League and Friends

Ha! Robert, I'm glad I didn't see them or we could have been bidding against each other.  Don't want to do that lol.  Nice catch for sure.  I'll have to dig out an interesting homemade car I got in a larger group of stuff a few years ago. 

Ok, to follow Robert's post, I have three cars, the first is the most crude thing you have ever seen and I almost just threw it away several times, but like a bad car wreck, I just stop and look at it...  The other two are scale-ized 816 hoppers with turned steel wheels and scale dummy couplers installed.  They did a crafty job of covering up the number plate openings by soldering a thin piece of brass that fits inside the ribs so you can't tell it is there.  Kind of trick.  Of course, they are all hand lettered.  There is no way I could do that.  I never got the hang of lettering in drafting class all those years ago either.  The other cool thing about the hoppers is that even with the scale couplers installed, there is enough swing that they will go around my 042 curves which gives me evil ideas about some other 800 series junkers I have in boxes..... Think I paid $5 each for those hoppers.

IMG_2416IMG_2419IMG_2420IMG_2421

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Steamer posted:

Dennis those hoppers look great. Tell me more about " some other 800 series junkers I have in boxes..... Think I paid $5 each for those hoppers."......

I, well, ahh...ahh well, see here, ahh, they just show up at my front porch, you know? Like the cars I ripped apart for the army train in my other thread, they came with two Blue comet cars.  Paid $50 for the lot mainly to get the Blue Comet cars, but there were several other really bad, rusty cars in there.. I think that's the same process I ended up with a "box full of 800 series cars"   I got an Ives 135 Pullman recently the same way, lot of 7 or 8 cars, paid $16 for the lot and sold one car out of the lot for $16.95 on ebay already..  I have some of the other cars posted there as well. Found a lot of Ives frames with 4 wheel truck frames for $4.99 the same way.  I needed a truck for my Ives 125 PRR boxcar (still need a door). Yeah, I think I spend too much time on there. I could fill a list with stuff I found on there and just did not buy.. How about I start sending you links to them, I bet your wife would hate me in short order!

Here's my latest buy. The seller didn't know the maker, but I'm sure it is Ives.I compared it to the 128 I have, the trucks are identical, and the couplers are too, but the ones on the flat car look a TAD smaller. I've looked on the Ives Train Society site, and I can't see this exact car. Does anyone know the number, year? I'm guess it had lumber for a load?

 ThanksPTDC0021PTDC0022PTDC0024PTDC0018PTDC0020

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Dennis Holler posted:
Jim O'C posted:

Anybody bid on this sacrilege?

abomination 14.50 lost

That's crazy stuff there. Is there anything useable there?  I'm not familiar with the Hoge stuff to know if it's been cut up or not. The shell looks way to clean to butch up..

sold for less than $15.00 while another 900 shell that was not butchered but still a parts only piece sold for over $40. Should have left in as it was.

900 loco shell 41.00 lost

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