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LUG April 2018

The Legacy Users Group Meeting

April 20th, 2018 at 7:45AM

Orange Hall Meeting Room

The Legacy Users Group is not affiliated with Lionel LLC in any way other than sharing our enjoyment of the Legacy System!

Welcome again to the Legacy Users Group meeting.  We'll be meeting in the Orange Hall Meeting room again starting around 7:45 and lasting approximately an hour.  We will cover submitted questions related to Legacy, Legacy components, and even some Legacy / Bluetooth to Lionel Engineering.

Dave Olsen, Lionel Director of Engineering, and Dean Brasseur, Head of Customer Service, will once again join us.  Dave will be discussing some updates on the LCS IRV2 and LCS CSM2 modules as well as answering questions on Legacy.

More information will follow but I wanted to start the questions coming in so I can get them to Dave and the team prior to the meeting with time to get the best answers.  Again we ask that all questions be related to Legacy, Legacy engines, and the Legacy components.  We ask that all "when will you make XYZ engine" questions to the Lionel booth.  All suggestions and future enhancement to Legacy type questions are welcomed.  Please makes sure the questions are clear and to the point.  I don't want to wrongly decipher anything when relaying them to Lionel.  Question cutoff will be Friday April 6th.

As the month rolls on I'll update this post as the agenda becomes clearer.  We do have some surprises in store as well.

As always we will upgrade Legacy Bases (1.6) and Cab2s (1.61) to the latest versions either creating modules you bring or updating your hardware.

So start the questions coming and if there is any specific Legacy operation that we can demo in the confines of this meeting let us know.  We are limited to what we can show but will try to do our best to help!

We will also ask opinions on making the meeting a Fall Only event as response to the spring meeting has been mixed. 

I can confirm that the meeting will be recorded for those who cannot attend thanks to Dave Slie.

April 2018 Legacy Users Group Agenda!

 

 

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  • LUG April 2018
Last edited by MartyE
Original Post

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I'll be there.   Marty, thanks again for all the work you do in organizing this.

My question is in regards to the upcoming Legacy engines that also feature Bluetooth control.  I run most of my engines at public shows, and I was wondering if there will be a way to shut off Bluetooth access or some other security measure (password?) so that someone in the crowd cannot connect with their phone and take control without my permission?

Andy

Last edited by Andy Hummell

I'll be there.   Thanks again for holding this event.

My question:   

I have Legacy base and had a Base-1L.   I noticed that the Base-1L didn't send out as strong of signal as my Legacy base.   On my layout the problem was 3 CC Fastrack switches that wouldn't respond with the Base-1L, but worked perfectly with the Legacy base.  I seem to recall reading on the OGR forum that it was either a power supply problem or that the signal needed "tuning" by adding a capacitor.   Is this still a issue?  I would like to purchase another Base-1L as a backup for my Legacy base.  

Last edited by Mike McCutcheon
Andy Hummell posted:

I'll be there.   Marty, thanks again for all the work you do in organizing this.

My question is in regards to the upcoming Legacy engines that also feature Bluetooth control.  I run most of my engines at public shows, and I was wondering if there will be a way to shut off Bluetooth access or some other security measure (password?) so that someone in the crowd cannot connect with their phone and take control without my permission?

Andy

I've always thought some security should exist for the Legacy system itself.  At a show there is nothing to stop a person with a Cab2 from connecting to another groups base and creating an issue.  A simple pin when you connect to a base would do it. Obviously something that you could turn on or off so not become an annoyance at home.

Is it possible for Lionel to incorporate some form of security into a future software release?

Last edited by MichRR714
MichRR714 posted:

I've always thought some security should exist for the Legacy system itself.  At a show there is nothing to stop a person with a Cab2 from connecting to another groups base a creating an issue.  A simple pin when you connect to a base would do it. Obviously something that you could turn on or off so not become an annoyance at home.

I would think this case is too rare to warrant the expense of a re-design.  I have seen cases of people doing this as a practical joke (within the club), but it is unlikely that most train guys would do it to be malicious.  The public on the other hand... well, we experienced two cases in just the last 6 months where teenagers threw switches on our layout with the intent of causing mayhem (a wreck and derailment in our cases).  We saw the culprits in one case and they ran when they knew we identified them, but with everyone having a cell phone, they could safely and anonymously watch the results of their efforts.

Andy

Andy,

   I did not know this happened to your club, did it happen at Kennywood?   I hope you caught the guy and made darn sure he would never play games with your incredible layout again.  With the engineering design Lionel has used I do not know how to stop this from happening, short of making sure no other Cab2 or Cab1L would be allowed in the area of your layout.

PCRR/Dave

 

Last edited by Pine Creek Railroad

Thanks Marty for your continued service to Lionel Legacy users.  I will not be able to attend but I do have a question.

Q:  Does Lionel have any plans for LCS users to have the option to upload their control panels and track plans to the cloud?  I have a lot of time invested in both types of files and I want an option other than sharing with another iPad as a means of backing them up.

thanks!

So with a month to go we have about 2 weeks for questions to be submitted.  Along with the Q&A, Dave Olson's presentation on the new LCS modules, it looks like this meeting will primarily review the sensor track and it's uses as well as what the LCS partners have to use with them.  We will briefly touch upon the BlueTooth / Legacy setup as it gets closer to being in all Legacy engines.  Beyond that it could be a short meeting depending on any other suggestions for things to cover.  We may evaluate the thought of going to a "Fall Only" meeting as Legacy has been out for over 10 years and folks become comfortable with it.

Just to makes sure everyone is on the same page, the April meeting will go on as planned. 

As Barry, for the DCS dinner has stated and I've noticed in this thread, the interest in the meetings is not what it has been in the past.  For Legacy I chalk this up the the system being 10 years old or so and folks are more comfortable with it.  It also depends on what and if there are any new updates or additions to Legacy or LCS.  There is a lot of folks here willing to help here and that helps people in real time.  So we will use the April and Fall gatherings to gauge whether we continue to go twice a year on down to one.  My only concern is losing the room but we'll deal with that if and when it comes to it.

As Barry will attest, it is a lot to organize, plan, and present but I am also sure he will agree worth it but in the end but without folks it doesn't make sense to continue a 2 times a year meeting.  So let's see what April and October brings.  Until then keep the questions coming and we'll forge on to April.

Q: I know that a user can change the tone of the bell and whistle on LC engines with the bluetooth app.  I also know that a user is not able to make similar changes on Legacy engines using the app.  Can someone help me understand what the difference is between the engines?  Follow up, at some point will I be able to alter those tones on Legacy engines?

Q:  Who will be attempting to fill Jon Z's role at Lionel?  

Q:  Will Jon Z's retiement lead to different suppliers of boards for Lionel products or impact the availability of ERR products?

 

I'd like to remind everyone while some folks might know the answers to the questions asked here, it is my mission to get the answers from the "horse's mouth" so to speak.  Usually I send the list into the folks at Lionel and they decide who best to answer from their respective teams.  Please refrain from answering the questions in this thread.

Thanks

In 2016, Lionel released the SensorCar to allow folks with fleets of TMCC engines and pre–IR sensor Legacy engines to use those engines with the SensorTrack.

Obviously, a lot of us still have many TMCC engines and pre–IR sensor Legacy engines that we would like to use with the SensorTrack--even more so now that the IRV2 will make the SensorTrack more feasible to implement and to deploy more widely.

  • Will Lionel consider releasing additional SensorCars (perhaps in a selection of road names that will look right at home with some of the different roads that folks like to run)?

 

And/Or

  • Will Lionel (perhaps through the Electric Railroad Company) consider offering sensor kits that folks can add to their existing rolling stock? That seems like it would be a relatively simple installation. Or add to an engine? (Or would installing an IR sensor in an engine be overly complicated or prone to causing more problems than it's worth?)

 

  • Finally, the most important question: what does the "V" in "IRV2" stand for? Version? Dave Olson's middle initial?

 

Cheers!

Keith

Keith L makes some good points about what we want to know about the sensor track.I would like a good over view of what it is and how to do it. (example: I had purchased a sensor track only to find out I had to order a power supply to use it.) I would like to know about the use of the sensor track from the basics to the advanced uses in the language a moron can understand. 

MartyE posted:
Blake Morris posted:

Will we soon be able to set user options on the SensorTrack using the cab2 remote?

Thanks,

Blake

I assume you mean without physically pushing the PGM button?  As of now it can do that but is cumbersome because of the need to push the PGM button on the track.  Just looking for clarification of the question.

That’s correct Marty!   I currently use the hirail app for this task however, it would be nice to do the same with the cab2.  

Thanks,

Blake

Q. Would it be possible to allow the speed dial to be functional while the user in the Trainlink screen operating a linked piece of rolling stock?  It would be cool to be able to accelerate/decelerate while giving commands to rolling stock.

Q. Would it be possible to create a generic Freight TYPE for the Info menu.  This would be helpful for those of us that install ERR boards in hot box reefer cars or signal man cars.  At present those are defined as STM in my Legacy base identifying as FRT causes loss of functionality.  It is silly detail, I admit.  

Q. On a relatively frequent and annoying basis my BPC2s "forget" their programming and have to be re-programmed.  Why and how do I prevent this?

Last edited by T4TT
Carl J posted:

Hi Marty— I would like to better understand all the benefits and wiring of the new  Custom Switch Machine (CSM-2)  module coming out this summer for the Z-Stuff 2500 switch machine.

Thanks,

Carl J

Hopefully Dave will cover that.  I don't have access to those yet.  I believe Dave was going to get into those during his presentation.

I'll be sending Dave the questions this morning.  I will be out of town next week so I need to get them to him this morning.  If any other questions are posted I cannot guarantee that they'll get answered.

Thanks everyone!

Last edited by MartyE

Hi Group!

Well the questions have been answered, presentations are in the final tweaks.  With a week to go I think we have a pretty good meeting coming.  I will post the Agenda later today or tomorrow.  I will have a minimal amount of printed copies with me so you may want to print it out when I post it to follow along.

We have a couple of treats in store and as always Dave and Dean from Lionel will join up.  Dave has put together a nice presentation and will answer all Legacy related questions in a Q&A after the presentations. 

We will not be fielding production questions if not related to Legacy.  I'm sure Dave will be willing to discuss some products we'll be seeing coming up though if you ask nicely but I hope to keep them geared toward Legacy related items.  Dean will be able to help with general Q&A on customer service related items but ask any specific issues be taken to the Lionel booth.  Please note I will strictly enforce this.

Legacy Upgrades and module programming / testing at the conclusion.  Depending on the time we may move this out into the hallway.

The summary will be up in Video form as well as the presentations at the meeting within a week or so of York.

Looking forward to seeing you all there.

Last edited by MartyE
Severn posted:

Once again I wonder about the idea of driving to the meeting and then leaving... is the location/door obvious?

Unless you actually live in York I wouldn't.   The video is up a week later.  For the 45 minutes to an hour the meeting lasts, unless I was attending the meet I wouldn't.  There is a map on the first post.

I also want to thank Marty for putting this on.  I also appreciate that Lionel sends their top managers to the meeting, although this year we were fairly easy on them.

Not a summary, but the two things that got my attention were the CSM2, which will allow feedback to the LCS from my DZ-2500s, and the closing of ERR.  I guess its DCS for my remaining conventional brass engines.

After the announcement of Jon Z. retiring I thought about what would happen with ERR and now we sort of know. IMHO I think the location itself is being shut down and the products moved in house to Charlotte. The real sad part is for Ken and any employees at ERR that are losing their job,I wish them the best in luck and thank them for their help in the hobby!

Doug

Wow! While this has some impact to the O gauge operators think about what this does to us in S. I have at least one of every type of engine Lionel has made in TMCC and Legacy. It is a very small fleet. Without the ability to use ERR boards to convert AM engines to TMCC, S gauge will be crippled for new entrants. I have already had close to 30 engines converted to TMCC so I will be ok, but what about those still adding to their fleet. As I understand it Lionel is only planning one new Legacy S engine, the Berkshire. I have one on order.

We S gaugers also do not have the option to go MTH DCS. MTH has made one engine in S DCS. Rumors are a rerelease of an SHS steam engine with DCS may happen some year.

The only alternative now for S gaugers not wanting to run conventional is DCC. We could hope that Lionel could treat businesses like Goldinhands as an OEM, but they will probably not do that. Without the ERR products to convert AM and old Gilbert engines to TMCC I would have gone DCC on my layout and not spent over $10,000 on LCS components and ZW-L transformers in addition to the $4,000 I spent on ERR products. In S there are no shiny new Legacy engines to buy. Thanks Lionel.

This news sure does suck. To me it seems as though Lionel doesn't give much thought or importance to those folks who at some future time may want to retrofit their favorite conventional trains to command control capability. Maybe from Lionel's vantage point, that might encourage those affected folks to purchase either LionChief/+ or the more expensive Legacy engines in order to have command capability.

But IMHO it's a disservice to those folks who might be looking to upgrade a conventional loco (or roadname) not available from Lionel with any form of command control.

As for Lionel likely selling ERR kits just to OEM's, does that mean GRJ, Alex M. and other authorized Lionel service guys also won't be able to buy those kits to do command control customer upgrades and repairs?

Seems like Lionel is forging an iron clad grip on their, once available to the general public, command control technology. 

From what I hear, we will NOT be able to get them, only manufacturers like Atlas and 3rd Rail that get orders shipped direct from the factory in bulk.  I'm wishing for a change, but I am not holding out a lot of hope.

When I start doing just PS/3 upgrades, that will start those folks down the DCS path, I can't see where that's a benefit for Lionel.  Right now, I do whichever the customer wants.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn
gunrunnerjohn posted:

Marty, there's nothing stopping them from simply listing them on the Lionel parts site, they already handle thousands of parts through that portal.  Adding 20-30 ERR products surely can't be that big a deal!

MartyE posted:

I agree 100%. I wish they would be available as a part from Lionel. 

This is very sad news!! You guys have the right idea here, especially since they will still be making them for OEM sales. What do they have against making a few more sales from the parts department when you already have the products? As GRJ says, couldn't be that hard to add a few more parts to the list, could it? 

I especially hate to see people lose their jobs too, and I think ERR had some very good people. Sure hope Lionel is able to keep the ERR employees. I have been on the receiving end of that job loss thing myself, back in the early '80s, not pretty!

Rich, that kinda' flies in the face of what I was told at York.  Dave said they didn't have enough retail sales to justify keeping the ERR product line, so how much impact is it really going to have on future OEM sales. 

In addition, I have looked over the Cruise Commander boards and the parts used, I don't see anything that's going out of production.  I obviously didn't check stuff like resistors and caps that have direct replacements, but the uP, optos, and FET's are readily available.

 

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