What do you think is the BIGGEST obstacle to starting a 3-Rail O Gauge layout?

"What do you think is the biggest obstacle to starting a layout?"

Inertia.

Pete

BIGGEST  obstacle,  bigger building...........,      someday............

MONEY

The Top two things expressed to me by other people: space and expense, in respect to HO v. O.

The space issue is puzzling to me.  Why?  Yes the overall volume of O scale is bigger than HO.  However, the "standard" curvature in sets are IDENTICAL.  Both are 18 radius.

I can place the "same" layout, in either scale, on an 8 by 4 board.

The expense is a tricky question, because if you are patient and a good shopper, you can get a lot of good quality "O" scale stuff inexpensively and the RESALE value is far greater in O.  80% of modelers have HO stuff.  HO stuff is virtually worthless...does not hold its value--not even close--if someone disagrees you may purchase my 1000s worth of HO stuff.

I was an HO guy for close to 40 years.  I just can't believe how expensive this stuff is today--new retail.  I personally just like "O" because it is bigger!  It's all great stuff and fun.

I admit yes you can get the HO stuff cheaper especially at shows where I've seen it sold in huge lots for next-to-nothing.

When the HO visitors complain about the third rail, and profess to be tired of microscope modeling, tell them about O SCALE 2 rail, 0n3, or even On30, which l dislike, but can be run on their existing track.  There is salvation for them.

Space. My small layout has come and gone with changes in number of household occupants. Gone at the moment, leaving me with a loop around the tree for a month out of the year. 

I would say space is the true limiting factor, followed by money.  Inertia is a distant 3rd.

George

Getting started.  I have a friend who is going to start on his "dream layout" as soon as he cleans out his large basement.  He's been going to train shows and telling me this since before my youngest was born.  She's in college now...

Jon

I agree with George - space and money....

The middle rail?

Clearing, cleaning, and prepping basement for it.

Money......with more money you could also acquire more space.

Michael Hokkanen posted:

Had a couple of HO trains friends over to see my layout. The comment from one was that, while he liked the larger size, he "could not get past the third rail".  I told him that I never think about "that" anymore. So, it got me thinking of the hesitancy of many to enter the 3-Rail O Gauge model railroad market.

I came up with my own "early" reasons for waiting so long to join the hobby.

#1. Not enough room - a 5x8 layout in O scale is not enough for me to "feel" the rail road. It is enough for a display to look at and to dream bigger. In fact, for a few years, my first O scale project was an RS-3, a box car, a gondola car, and a caboose mounted on a section of track just long enough for this short train. The track was ballasted and had RR spikes decoratively placed at each end. I now have a 10' x 12' layout and most of you know that is pretty small. But it suffices to keep me happy. And, actually, maybe the smaller space keeps me from spending more money than I should.

#2. Too expensive - The manager of my LHS said that he feels bad when a kid comes in with a $25 gift certificate because there is very little he/she can buy. The starter set I began with, an MTH RS-3 Pennsy freight set was, I though, a good value. But, in spite of myself, I have knowingly and willfully paid "too much" for items that I just "had to have".... How can a plastic boxcar be worth $64?? Part of this is my own fault as i am not much of a scratch-builder or innovator. I don't  think I'd last long in American OO or TT scales whee you have to make just about all of your own buildings.

#3. Not realistic enough - I have long gotten past the 3 rail objections. I know now that the hobby has many facets. Recently I have even taken a liking to and someday would like to purchase a tin-plate passenger and freight train, maybe in standard gauge, for display. But back to O gauge, what really put me off after I had some idea of what I was doing, was the O-27 variety of cars. I understand why they were made, for small curves essentially, but I now try to buy only "scale" within O gauge. There is nothing wrong with the "toy" look if you want to go that way but I wanted to drive "real" trains.

#4. Reliability problems - My very first engine, the RS-3 I mentioned, was DOA on my "layout". I took it back to the LHS the next day and out of pity to the new guy they forgot the formalities of warranty, and etc., and just fixed it themselves free of charge. Turns out it was just a wire improperly fastened. I bought a Lionel subway set and had to take parts back no less that 3 times to solderer electrical breaks. I had another engine, why continue to bash the manufacture(?), that's smoke unit and drive train never worked at 100%. I have also had some coupler and truck problems on new freight cars.  Mostly - stuff works ok, but I like to test drive just as much as the seller will let me before I buy.

#5. Lack of technical knowledge/ability - OK, so in many ways I am smart. But I have never been smart in a practical way that some guys are who can diagnosis and repair all kinds of problems. If I took a modern engine apart I am quite sure that it would never, ever, be the same. I run my trains conventionally, partly owing to the further expense of advanced control systems but also due to the fact that it is just so much information that boggles my mind. I have only just recently after several years running trains added "activation track" to my layout.

Bottom line is, I am still running trains and enjoying O gauge. I guess the positives must outweigh the negatives. I don't mean to bash are mutual interest so much as just to talk about it. That is what forums are for, right?  To that end, your comments are solicited and appreciated.

Got to go (I have been putting it off) shovel about 20"s of snow!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are all great points and I feel the same way as many on here the reasons for starting a layout on o scale are many, But I feel its not just the trains its the friends you meet on the way and no space or money can compete with that, So for all of the people who are thinking of starting a layout whatever size it is, I say just go for it and have fun because this hobby needs everyone big, small

#1. Not enough room - My 2nd biggest issue - cars and locomotive are twice as long a HO.

#2. Too expensive - This is probably my biggest issue.

#3. Not realistic enough -  Other then the third rail, manufactures have a lot more scale equipment now compared to back in the 70/80.

#4. Reliability problems -  I have/had more problems in HO (and DCC) then with any O gauge I have had over the years.

#5. Lack of technical knowledge/ability - Learn as you go. But the same issue as other scales and/or Hobbies.

Time. Every time I say "Tonight I'm going to do...." and then something else comes up.

Too many people too willing to give you bad advise,

MONEY

the biggest issue for me is cash

If you get into O-gauge Model Railroading with the end in mind, space and money have already been considered. Example: If you live in a studio apartment, it is a pipe dream to believe that O-gauge makes any sense at all. And if you want the new technology stuff, it isn't practical if you are living pay check to pay check.

The OP, in his title, referred to "starting" a "layout". IMO that supposes you have enough space (somewhere within your house), and you have enough money to acquire adequate amount of stuff to start a layout. The question asks what is the biggest obstacle to getting started with the layout. Obviously, the first item is to pick a location for the layout. 

For me that is easy. What is difficult is actually doing the physical activity to get started with the layout. From that time forward it becomes a battle to actually do more work on the layout. The difficulty and battle is that of overcoming the inertia of everyday life.

YOURSELF!

Its the toughest battle I fight everyday!

There are TONS of excuses any one can muster but YOU are your own worst enemy.

SPACE- I have seen great works in small space. Just see Norm Charbonneau's old layout. Amazing layout in a basement space that you and I grew up in.

MONEY- More excuses. I have bought scale equipment at HO prices... just have to look for it...or practice sprucing up some semi scale equipment at bargain prices. You don't need that new engine in the catalog! H&LL you can buy 4 TMCC scale engines at that price.

NOT REALISTIC ENOUGH? Really stuck on that 3 rail are you? Then paint it black... otherwise you need practice on making some good scenes. As my Dad would say stop your cryin' , do something about it or move on!

Reliability Problems?! Have you ever played with TYCO Night GLOW HO trains as a kid? Have you ever owned an older HO Brass engine? Now that was a lesson in frustration!!....

Lack of ability?!!!!  - How many times as a kid did you break something and over and over again take it apart and eventually fix it? It was pretty triumphant when you fixed it wasn't it? Nope I am not using this excuse. If you have enough tenacity in this hobby there is NOTHING you cannot do. And there is PLENTY of help in this forum.

My biggest excuse is having too many distractions. But every night after I put the kids to bed. I head to the basement and either run trains or take that next BIG project on ... now lets see where is that bridge to no where going?

The secret is to just chisel away at it.

Space available to dedicate a good size layout .

I've always since a child liked running at good speed.. O scale requires a fairly large space and straight runs of distance I'd like 10 feet or more just calls for a big space.

WIFE

Michael,

  IMO the biggest obstacle to building  an O Gauge layout is space, no matter how you cut it, you must have the space to build the layout, if you want it in your home.  I have always wanted a large enough space in my home to leave up a big multi-level layout year around.  I did use our office and game room for about 8 years, this definitely disrupted our home, and limited our living space severely.  If we ever do purchase another home, it will have enough floor space in our home for me to construct a large multi-level O Gauge Train layout, on a permanent basis. 

PCRR/Dave

86TA355SR posted:

WIFE

Hmm, that does rank up there... but I am not buying. There are always replacements.

J Daddy posted:

86TA355SR posted:

WIFE

Hmm, that does rank up there... but I am not buying. There are always replacements.

Those are expensive...

TIME and time is money. 

I get to distracted too with other things in life as my life is busy like most of you. For example I spend to much "time" designing a layout. I call it design paralysis. The other is space. I want a huge 0; 3 rail layout but then I say to myself I will never finish a 20'x 40' layout and right now I do not have that space. I have a space in a finished attic which is 1/2 that. So I will eventually settle on something that is smaller-medium sized that will not take up that much time. OGR is a good example of the time I spent on "distractions" however good they seem.

I have been told by some H.O. guys I know that space matters to them, however I have seen the track sizes sold by H.O. companies and dis-agree because 027 curves are 3 inches smaller in diameter then H.O. 15 inch radius curves. Also 031 is only one inch larger then the smallest H.O. factory size curve.  Also the H.O. curve sizes go up to 22 inches that I know of or 44 inch curves. The only size savings might be the width of the tracks but other then that I don't really see that much of a size savings with H.O. verse O gauge track. There are some people though who use up to 100 inch radius curves in O gauge so again it depends on curved track sizes as to which scale is better for you.

Price might be more expensive for brand new items but I have seen some H.O. catalogs in the past 6 weeks that puzzle me about prices. In other words the H.O. item is just as much as the O gauge item if not more! So no real monetary savings with H.O. anymore from what I see. I am comparing MTH O gauge with MTH H.O. stuff.

Lee Fritz

My flight instructor once asked me "what makes an airplane fly"?  After I gave the usual responses about thrust and lift he said no, it's money.  Same holds true for O scale layouts.  Time and money always are the rate limiting factors.

With me it's always been TIME!

I let money keep from getting back into trains for too long. Probably gonna sell my Harley eventually also. If my girlfriend doesn't dump me, I'll have the room....lol

There is one small thing about H.O. when it comes to buying buildings that are pre-made, they seem to less expensive then O gauge buildings; even Plasticville buildings have that price difference.

The only other saving I can see is if you have more then three tracks side by side in H.O. verses O gauge you can save an inch or two, that's all. The curve diameters for H.O. are a little more at times then some of the curve diameters for O gauge track, so not always a space saving there.

Lee Fritz

Space, but money would have to be number one.  We question why more young people aren't in the hobby, not many can fork out 400.00 or 500.00 or more for a locomotive.  It's an expensive hobby, but I'll never sell my Harley.

Space and then track planning would be next. I love building I think as much if not more as running the trains. I'm just sick of circles and that's all i can come  up with in small spaces. Hopefully very soon I will be purchasing a new  home with plenty of space in the very near future and I'm going to be asking on this board for some ideas.

Space and Time (sounds like something from Sat trek)
I have lots of layout items for my layout!

Wives who don't for the life of them don't understand "hobbies" and why that time can't be better put into remodeling tasks.

The biggest obstacle is "us". The rule of three P's dominate, let me explain.

"P" number one: Perfection, we all want that perfect layout.

"P" number two: Procrastination, to achieve "P 1" we delay for every reason possible, size, location,type of track, budget, design, etc.

"P" number three: Paralysis, not sure how to achieve all our requirements in "P 1" we simply freeze and do nothing but continue to think about everything we want in our layout but it never seems to measure up to our "P 1" standard.

       Therefore: Perfection leads to Procrastination that leads to paralysis, NO LAYOUT.

My #1 obstacle is time.  I don't have enough time in the day to take care of everything I need to do and still make it downstairs to get enough quality time working on the layout.

Space 

There are a few factors:

1. Space
2. Time
3. Approval from the "Secretary of the Interior"
4. Cost.

Work-arounds:

1. For space, a small switching layout can be done in as little as 96"x16"
2. Time -- smaller layouts can get built/detailed faster
3. Approval from the "Secretary of the Interior" -- submit some concept sketches. If it doesn't look intrusive, or better still, looks decorative you've got a better shot.
4. Cost -- keep materials simple and inexpensive.

Rescued Trains posted:

The biggest obstacle is "us". The rule of three P's dominate, let me explain.

"P" number one: Perfection, we all want that perfect layout.

"P" number two: Procrastination, to achieve "P 1" we delay for every reason possible, size, location,type of track, budget, design, etc.

"P" number three: Paralysis, not sure how to achieve all our requirements in "P 1" we simply freeze and do nothing but continue to think about everything we want in our layout but it never seems to measure up to our "P 1" standard.

       Therefore: Perfection leads to Procrastination that leads to paralysis, NO LAYOUT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was just about to post, in a general way, your sequence of enthusiasm killing pitfalls.  Add to it, the time spent in front of the monitor or boob toob, and it's a wonder that any layout planning or building gets accomplished at all.

Bruce

Space

Money

Time

Kids

When I first got married we lived in a condo with no basement and no room for a layout.  I did build a few Christmas layouts but that was it.  When we moved into our current home I did start a layout but it was very expensive.  That layout only lasted about 2 years and it came down to make room in the basement for the kids to have a play area.

I started  my new layout in an extra bedroom in the basement just a few months ago.  It is much smaller then the pervious but I am doing it right this time.  I am also on a much tighter budget.  I am making this one way more kid friendly so they can run their trains and I can throw on my Legacy locomotives and scale cars on their once in awhile.   

I have friends in HO Scale and they are rivet counters, two RAIL is not real, three rail is TOY...Well, I had a good friend over last week that has a 35' by 50' HO layout that had never seen my layout. He, runs DCC, has several thousand cars, several hundred Diesels, loves his Scale. What he saw different was, mine is totally Lionel Legacy, I could start up any of 15 or so Engines on the track, or lash ups, or program turnouts or even open blocks, it was EASIER....He was amazed at the Quality that LIONEL has achieved over the years....You could actually see the fine Detailing...It was a Wow for him....

So, to Answer your Question, You do need a good bit of space, a modest amount of money, and to help keep your budget in retrospect, model 1 or 2 railroads, maybe 1950 to 1975....If you choose small Steam, or small Diesels, you could get away with 054 or 063 curve diameter...Remember, Railroads start small and Grow.

In comparison, if you Join a Nice Country Club to Play Golf, (Golf Clubs and balls are Expensive) well, that's also costly. If you buy a nice Boat,(Wow, HUGH investment) and lots of fishing Gear, well, that's also Costly...If you look at Model Railroading like that, it's not that costly. 

Yes, we must consider our wives opinion, (Cheaper to Keep HER), but when we are working on our trains, we are at Home....When I am in the basement, I am under her feet, so to speak......For the record, my wife is not into trains, but she supports my love for trains...Actually, I win a lot of trains????....

Lionel, MTH, ATLAS O, 3Rd RAIL, SUNSET MODELS, really hold a good resale Value.

GOOD LUCK, You will me a lot of great people, You will have a lot of Fun..

Old Chinese proverb - Longest journey begins with first small step.  Do something, ACT.  Clean the room, paint the walls, seal the floor.  Buy the wood, sooner or later you will have a few hours (not necessarily together) to work on the frame work.  Lay some track, run a train.  From there add track, scenery and soon you will have a layout.  BUT if you don't act, sure as God made little green apples you will not have a layout.  It doesn't have to be perfect, few ever are.   You can always take it up and start all over. Make decisions, and if one or two are wrong, so what? If you make a few mistakes, so what?  But DO something.    Ten minutes on the Internet is ten minutes not spent joining wood together for part of the frame.  Thirty minutes on the Internet is thirty minutes not spent laying track or wiring the layout.  An hour on the Internet is sixty minutes not spent working on or testing your railroad.  Everyone has the same amount of time.  Your choice how you use it.   John in Lansing, ILL

Me it's space at the moment. I do have about 5' x 8' area but I also have to make it high enough for some things like the laundry baskets and a shelving unit 3' high to fit under there also, among other things she thinks needs to be in here as she doesn't have room for. I need to do a couple of things then I can start working on my new area. ( my garage ) But then money comes in lol. Most of I can do but will need a electrician as I'am going to need to upgrade my panel box in the house to a bigger amp one I think it's like 80 or 110 at present ( yes I know very little about electric. ) I do know how to run and hook up outlets and lights but getting a bigger panel box and rewiring it, is another thing. What I do do thou I will have him recheck all I have done. I hope in the garage to have 2 outlets per breaker. Will also have to run a line from the house to power the panel box in the garage. Closing the garage off I can do. Cutting a doorway into the garage from storage room connected to it so I have access, from what I see I might as well find some to do that as by time I rent the saw and all I won't be saving that much. Especially once I drive about 60 miles each way to get it and return it. 

for me Space Time and Money all factor in here

Power - both Electric and Physical

Most home electric services are 100 Amp 220 volt , an All-Electric home should be 200 amp 220.

My house was built in 1940 with 30 Amp 110 volt service and only two breakers of 15 amp each.

I want to upgrade but so many other things need to be fix also.

If was younger and had the physical stamina I once had i would be done by now.

I only lived in this house since 1986, (30 + years).

Rattler21, "Old Chinese proverb - Longest journey begins with first small step."  You've been watching too many Charlie Chan movies. LOL

Don

For someone just starting out, it's got to be money. I started with Lionel back in the '50's (when there were such things as after-Christmas clearance sales), went H0 in the '60's (BIG mistake, but at least it was cheaper), back to Lionel in the '70's with MPC (and fortunately had always kept my original childhood trains), and on to Williams and MTH in the '80's & '90's. Today, I couldn't afford to start out with the $1k+ engines being made.

For awhile in the '80's & '90's G gauge was affordable to a lot of people starting out, but today it seems that the prices have gone up beyond most budgets as well (except for the really cheap sets with plastic track). 

But enough weeping and wailing for the past. Used trains of any manufacturer or gauge are available at a fraction of original cost, and a layout can be carefully designed to fit almost any space (just look at some layouts here on the forum: mounted on doors / shelves / modules, etc.). Just take it slow and thoughtful.

Space, unless you want a toy train layout. And by that I mean 1/4"/ft. equipment. All other gauges except O are scale or near to scale.

My opinion, space. You never seem to have enough. You are always saying to yourself, boy if I could just ?

Space and Funds to do everything you want to do.

It's a lot easier to buy stuff for that future layout than it is to actually work on it.

Dennis Rempel posted:

It's a lot easier to buy stuff for that future layout than it is to actually work on it.

Now that is some scary truth!

Hmmm.  Biggest obstacle, maybe spending a month trying to figure out whether to use Lionel's or MTH's proprietary command system.....  They kind of force you to take sides don't they?

My biggest obstacle is ME.  We moved into our house 5 yrs ago and I had great plans for my railroad.  WE own the house with  no mortgage payment.  We have no credit card debt, no car payments, just sold my boat and slip at the marina and am retired with nothing but time on my hands.   I have all the trains I'll ever need and have a nice finished 12' X 17' room in the basement that's heated in the winter and a/c in the summer.  To top it off my wife has been on my back to get started on the layout.  I can't use the excuse of not enough money, nor can I say I don't have the time or space so YES, my biggest obstacle is ME.  How do I get past ME? 

]MONEY.......I don't know of ANY kids (and VERY FEW adults) walking the earth who have an extra $400 or $1400 just laying around to buy a new engine.  Even a used one at $200-$300 is spendy.  $50 for a boxcar??  or $100 for a passenger coach??  Get realistic!  Those prices are driving people AWAY from hobbies like this!!!   The train MFGs targeted marketing pool is quickly draining of the 60+ year olds who want the biggest, best, or ???  to re-live their childhood, but this time with a layout of glory!!!  Their 401K's that have been converted into a layout are BIG $$$ losers!!!   If you have a family, there won't be much $$$ left to buy ANY o gauge stuff no matter where you look.  For me, I've bought lots of "used" that others consider "old" ie Proto 1 or conventional.  I don't care to run mine thru the "smart" phone or with a wireless system.  This is extra $$$ I can put into something else on the layout.  Standing by the transformer is OK with me..... 

I still have my original 4X8 from my childhood and finally had enough extra $$$ earned to buy a fully sceniced (sp?) 4X10 from a person who needed it gone (to get space!).  I know they took a big $$ loss on it, but its ready to run and the kids and I have fun with it. (here's a piccy)

http://i454.photobucket.com/al.../001_zpsteeeqk0o.jpg

Future plans are to sell it and build something else in the 14 X 14 train room.  No rush on that yet.

SPACE.........You can always buy space anytime by moving or removing parts of a house.  I'm amazed at how many people on this forum have houses WITHOUT basements....(a GREAT place to put a layout!!)

TIME.....Finding time is just a matter of prioritizing.......REALLY!!!!....just how long ARE you going to keep storing everything???

Probably the biggest obstacle is developing a realistic plan.  You have to weigh your goals against your limitations.  Space, money and time are limitations that can be overcome if you adjust your goals to fit the limitations.  Once a plan is developed things fall into place by themselves.  A well planned layout is fun to build and a joy to operate.

Tom

Space and Location

I would say it is knowing what you want, and then finding it.

First modern railroads and their huge engines also don't help, since manufactures always make the current engines and cars, and today they are huge! How many have the space for a O-54 minimum curve engine? Or the towering auto racks, that Lionel had to boost the height of some of the bridges for? Finding a good looking SW1, NW2, 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 in the road name you want is a pain if you want to stay in a small space. The shear drought of modern O-27 equipment new does not help, particularly good looking engines. Used is great, but parts of the west coast where HO is the norm getting affordable, not Marx (or Mar if the person selling does not know of Marx), engines is trickier if you don't Ebay or online. The Rio Grande Lionchief 0-4-0 comes to mind, (produce number 6-83080 if you want to find it) it may not be scale or from a prototype, but looks great running; perfect for an O-27 switching layout. Many have no idea the level of detail you can cram into a small layout, just finding engines to make it work is a pain, since the tended to be old school starter set types.

In the end availability, space and time, are the issues. SCARM removes the issue of layout design.

Procrastination. 

I think it would be difficult to choose just one. IMHO, there are three major issues: money, space, and time.

Thanks for the great replies. I had forgotten "time" as a consideration. But now, being retired, I do have some.  I especially love the late night sessions when I am on a "mission" to complete the phase of a project. I got to bed tried and happy.

No doubt cost. I shake my head when a piece of rolling stock cost almost $90. Love the hobby, but I really pace myself due to the high expense. 

Trying to do too much too fast. Take your time, stay within budget and enjoy the ride.

Rod Miller

Dewey Trogdon posted:

Procrastination. 

I would say space & money being the biggest factors.  

That being said -

Space - I have a 6 x13 layout - would I like something larger, sure but if I had a 20 x20 layout I would say, I'd like something larger.  I'm satisfied with what I have & make the best of the space I have to work with.

Cost - since I decided  to go full O scale on my new layout, I was blown away by the prices for the scale rolling stock!   With some shopping here on the forum & on the bay, I have been able to get a nice collection of scale engines  & cars at a fraction of the cost if they were new.     This is something to take note of though for the manufacturers - The prices of cars & engines are too high.   Watching auctions over the last few months, I have seen the true street price for $75 cars be around $45 or so, as an example.  Lower prices on new items would help bring more trains into the hands of people who can help grow the hobby through exposure. 

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Michael,

  IMO the biggest obstacle to building  an O Gauge layout is space, no matter how you cut it, you must have the space to build the layout, if you want it in your home.

This.  It was all I could do to make an 8x6 space for my layout, and I was lucky to get that much.  Not all of us have huge basements.

#Rattler21... I took the step. next hurdle, WIFE and $

lol

my NEXT wife will like trains

I'm really surprised how many active forum members don't have a layout to run their model trains on.  I always thought that was the starting point, then buy what you need to execute your plan.  A lot of guys spend years planning and collecting and never get anywhere.  Just put it together.  Start something and stay on it till it's done.  Like any construction project.   Keep beating the horse till it can't offer a whimper.

William 1 posted:

I'm really surprised how many active forum members don't have a layout to run their model trains on.  I always thought that was the starting point, then buy what you need to execute your plan.  A lot of guys spend years planning and collecting and never get anywhere.  Just put it together.  Start something and stay on it till it's done.  Like any construction project.   Keep beating the horse till it can't offer a whimper.

Hi William, I am one of those with out a layout at this time.
This hobby attracts people in many directions. The direction that I went was purchasing old beat-up tin plate trains, then giving them a second chance rather than seeing them go in the garbage. Basically restoring.
I did this with some post-war and now prewar tin-plate which I love.
Research, hunting for the parts and learning the various revisions of the same loco or rolling stock and meeting the people with the same interest. That is why I m always on this forum/learning.
The only time that I ran my trains last year was around the Christmas tree. I was getting all of the engines and rolling stock that I brought back to life and gave them a whirl, It was fun 1.
So I m looking into a small layout with standard and O gauge to enjoy seeing my work run.
Last layout that I had was about 50 years ago (still have those trains) and the time is right.
God willing, I will have something by the end of the year. May not be perfect but it will be mine.

William 1 posted:

I'm really surprised how many active forum members don't have a layout to run their model trains on.  I always thought that was the starting point, then buy what you need to execute your plan.  A lot of guys spend years planning and collecting and never get anywhere.  Just put it together.  Start something and stay on it till it's done.  Like any construction project.   Keep beating the horse till it can't offer a whimper.

I suspect a fair number of people are of a mind that if they waited till they were well on their way to completing a layout (or at least building one to the point of being operational and/or presentable), much of the equipment they'd like to run on it would be beyond a reasonable level of difficulty to acquire.

Is some of what I own still readily available? Sure.

Are most of the items I own that I really  like to see running still readily available?

Ehhhhhh not so much.

---PCJ

I am similar to you RonH.  I had tear  down my layout when I moved and sold almost all my O stuff.  I gathered some nice prewar standard gauge engines, 500 freights and a few of the smaller passenger sets.  I run them on the floor from time to time and am interested in learning how to maintain my engines in top running condition and tinkering as time goes by.  I have all I need and not interested in gathering a large collection.  What I don't get is the guys with mountains of unopened boxes and nowhere to run them.  Like you said, there are different folks who practice different strokes.  Having built three layouts for other people I do know a lot can be accomplished in a relatively short time if you hammer away at it.  Looking at track plans for years gets you nowhere.  Just dig in and do it.

The biggest obstacle to starting an O gauge layout is the carpentry required for the tablework but in my case I had to first start with the construction of the room in the basement. It has been 13 years to this point but the layout is 95% finished.  Completing the lighting and the hookup of the switches are the only remaining items. For success you need to stay in the game

The biggest factor right now is getting the concrete poured for the garage addition. The doggone weather was great in February when we were not ready. Now we are mid-twenties at night in Tidewater Virginia.

Have a "LONG"  list of "to do" items that is slowly being reduced.

Being really new to this group, and looking in Wide eye Amazement at the collection of layouts that true "Hobbyists" skillfully craft, I have a question. If you belong to a club that has a layout that you contribute time to, does that enable club members to collect Engines and rolling stock, all the while running it at the Club? (and not crafting a layout at home?)

There really are no obstacles, only opportunities. Think of "obstacles" more as challenges that can be overcome with planning and creativity. I doubt that the vast majority of those reading this thread have 100% of what they would like to have in the hobby, be it space, time, money, or a number of other things. But a good many of them are here and reading this because they have developed a liking for what the hobby offers and they have willingly taken the plunge. Never a bad thing! 

These are the 2 biggest factors in my opinion.

Money: Model railroading isn't cheap generally speaking. Many people don't understand that its a hobby you build upon as years go on. If you don't mind buying used items, you can generally find some good deals on the forum, eBay, at shows, ect. if you are patient. I believe that some of the prices now are getting a little ridiculous, as a Lionel scale tractor trailer is $89.99 msrp. 

Space: If you are just into running trains and are more into the postwar/railking sized engines and cars, then you can have even a small layout with a lot of action. If you are more into operating your layout like a real railroad or are into operating scale sized equipment, then you need a lot of space. Even a 8'x15' sized layout is generally small and you might want to limit your equipment to small steam/diesel engines and shorter trains. I like o scale but this might be my biggest issue with o scale with money being a close second.

Also want to note I have never used any Lionel system but have MTH's DCS and NCE Power Cab. I like DCC being universally compatible with all the manufacturers and not having to pick and choose a system and being restricted to that brand. This is just my opinion from my years in the hobby.

Good topic, may I add.."Peace"

Sometimes life is so unsettled that hobbies take a back seat, a way back seat.  Do I have unopened stuff in boxes ? oh yeah, but after starting 3  layouts since 1989 and being job-transferred before they got done, then a divorce, I sought peace before I could relax and "do trains".  I am now re-married, have room, a supportive wife, and yes, peace. Our 5 -yr plan is to move & retire elsewhere but for now I am full speed ahead on building a small fun layout right here.

May peace be with you all.

Great answers and a fun thread. I am reminded by Alan's comments of the joke:

Optimist: glass is half full.

Pessimist: glass is half empty.

Engineer: who made the glass too blanking big?

My biggest issues with O gauge are time and money.  When I have time, I don't have money and when I have money, I don't have time.

Willpower, not Will Power, although you could build just about anything you want for the price of his ride:

AFAIAC, it's a matter of the will to act. Simple as that!

Waiting until conditions are perfect for that humungous, dream layout? You'll never get there!

Biggest obstacle to me was getting over the bewilderment of DCS vs Legacy. Thanks to Eric Siegel's videos, I got past that although I am far from a master at either system.

Build a table and get going!

wild mary posted:

My biggest obstacle is ME.  We moved into our house 5 yrs ago and I had great plans for my railroad.  WE own the house with  no mortgage payment.  We have no credit card debt, no car payments, just sold my boat and slip at the marina and am retired with nothing but time on my hands.   I have all the trains I'll ever need and have a nice finished 12' X 17' room in the basement that's heated in the winter and a/c in the summer.  To top it off my wife has been on my back to get started on the layout.  I can't use the excuse of not enough money, nor can I say I don't have the time or space so YES, my biggest obstacle is ME.  How do I get past ME? 

Maybe enlist the aid of a friend who might enjoy spending time with you building the railroad? It could be a process interrupted by an occasional burger burn or cold drink break.

not enough "train" hours per day !

I like LEAPINLARRY's comment; "when we are working on our trains, we are at Home....When I am in the basement, I am under her feet, so to speak......".  LOL I have to try that one!  I think most wives don't really understand our form of "hobby" and get a little jealous of the time and money we spend on it when they feel it would be better spent with them, on the house, or raising the kids.

Maybe if we understood or reminded ourselves about why this hobby is so important to us, we can better help our wives to understand. So, let's examine all of these obstacles to see what is keeping each one of us from enjoying our hobby and overcome it!

If it's cost, consider that we cannot afford to NOT have this hobby.  It brings peace to our minds and helps keep our sanity.  I love thinking about it at work, driving, or wherever.  Someone also told me once that each purchase goes a long way.  It will last a long time with a little care and you can spread out the accumulation as your layout or collection grows.  Having a particular road name or theme with a time frame such as 1955-1957 narrows down the selection and cost and builds patience as you search for each piece or wait for the manufacturers to produce that particular piece.

If it's time, chip away at it little by little and start anywhere.  Just spending an hour and solving that derailing switch problem will give you a great sense of accomplishment where 3 hours of watching the TV can't do.  It probably didn't make a dent in the layout construction, but, it's about enjoying your hobby and that purpose was fulfilled.

If it's space, buy a new house (just kidding), integrate trains into the living space like a point-to-point switching yard on a shelf in the living room, library, or wherever as long as it decorates and compliments the room.  The wife may even count that as home renovation if it looks as nice as a piece of furniture (with a painted, trimmed edge on the shelf for example).

Life is short.  We can't afford procrastination, but, don't let that keep you from being patient as you plan and hope for that next residence, acquire enough pieces, or your child is more independent and frees up more time.  Maybe we should stop reading this OGR forum (sorry OGR) and get to work on something.  However, this OGR forum is also a part of my hobby and brings a lot of enjoyment, ideas, and enthusiasm to me.

I've come here late and have not read every response.  But for me, at the moment, is not having space to build a layout.  Hopefully that will change in a year or so.  

This is an ongoing saga of how much YOUR hobby costs!  Priced a jetski, a snowmobile, or a dirt bike, etc lately?  How about restoring an old car or even better yet restoring an airplane!  It's a hobby, get over it!  I know how much enjoyment I get out of 'messin' with my trains, that's the bottomline.  If you need a push to even start your hobby then you are in real trouble and this hobby won't help that!  Russ

Space.

1. Space

2. $$$$$$$

Miggy posted:

Being really new to this group, and looking in Wide eye Amazement at the collection of layouts that true "Hobbyists" skillfully craft, I have a question. If you belong to a club that has a layout that you contribute time to, does that enable club members to collect Engines and rolling stock, all the while running it at the Club? (and not crafting a layout at home?) 

Absolutely.

I'm very close to joining the NJ Hirailers for just that reason

(I just need a reliable method of getting over there)

---PCJ

Lack of effort on my part.  I got back into the hobby 3 years ago, and spent all of my time refurbishing a PW set I acquired and then just kept adding pieces to it, and finding I enjoyed repairing and tinkering with the trains and cars.  I was always telling myself "this will be great WHEN I put up a real layout".  Fast forward to this week, when during the big snowstorm, I finally built a 4 by 8 train table.  Now I just hope it isn't another 3 years before I set up a layout on it, lol!

Space - the final frontier.  That's what caused me to tear down my O scale layout - not enough Space.

I've got the answer to all our space problems!  Build the layout on all that empty ceiling space of your house and use super strong magnetic rails!  Then, to see it right-side-up, wear low powered telescope glasses that flip the image (but first sit down somewhere near the ceiling).  Just imagine, your family can be watching TV/conversing in the same room where you are running trains and the nighttime layout lighting can dimly light the room.  The only adjustment is getting used to seeing your family upside-down.

As for the space issue, take a look at some of the youtube videos of O gauge in England.  They just build them around the fence in the backyard!

I built a separate building on our property 1800 sq ft,900 for trains and 900 for boat and shop so cost started before one piece of framing started,plumbing,electrical,heating and cooling etc.

Mikey

#RAILRIDE  I can give you a ride, everytime I attend, Sir,  (From Minnesota) doh! 

The biggest impediment for me getting into this hobby was my almost total lack of knowledge.  Years ago when I had a train set for the boys it was fairly simple and straight forward;  set up a figure eight and buy some smoke pills.  Now information is widely available on the internet but so are a vast array of conflicting opinions.  Information overload.  If you really are determined to get into this just pick a system (tubular, Gargraves, Atlas, etc, DCC or DCS or conventional, HO O gauge or even G scale) and go for it.  I think this is one area where (like marriage)  it's better to just trust your instincts.

Like several folks have said, one of the biggest obstacles is just overcoming inertia. You have to just start. And every time you come to an obstacle, something you don't know how or what to do, just tighten up and start. Usually you will find a way and get it done. For me, anyway, I have found I just have to push it and start. 

#WP  great point John. (i see that you are of the "Just Do it" generation) we, younguns, realy do stand on the shoulder of giants. Thanks for the wisdom sir John, and the encouragement to press on.......Inertia, Velocity.... take the step. you halped make my day

wild mary posted:

My biggest obstacle is ME.

and am retired with nothing but time on my hands.   I have all the trains I'll ever need and have a nice finished 12' X 17' room in the basement that's heated in the winter and a/c in the summer.  How do I get past ME? 

OMG! isnt there a club or friend nearby to help you get going? Man, your successful, retired. WT*  If

you want, I'll come down and give ya kick in the ________. Just kidding.

No more excuses, I want to hear how it's going now with pictures.....!

Having a 27 inch by 56 inch layout is quite the squeeze, hopping to get a second fold up table in the future to double the width. (Hence why I do my best to get only O-27 compatible).

I built a 12' x 16' C shaped Fastrack Legacy equipped two level layout for a guy in six days.  Two loops, the second level was a reversing loop.  Basic scenery with Woodland Scenics green paper on plywood and homasote.  Landscaped on the rise to the second level, buildings installed and lighted, twelve switches, a bridge, etc.  Installed a Millhouse turntable and an Atlas roundhouse a week later.   I had a thread on here.  It was in 2011.  Six days fully operational with basic scenery.  I built the benchwork at home for two days then broke it down and loaded it in my pickup.  It was fun, but a tad stressful.  I got paid $16,000.  It's called work.  Gee, what a concept.  Or sit on your duff and stare at your boxes of unused expensive trains.  

Michael Hokkanen posted:

wild mary posted:

My biggest obstacle is ME.  We moved into our house 5 yrs ago and I had great plans for my railroad.  WE own the house with  no mortgage payment.  We have no credit card debt, no car payments, just sold my boat and slip at the marina and am retired with nothing but time on my hands.   I have all the trains I'll ever need and have a nice finished 12' X 17' room in the basement that's heated in the winter and a/c in the summer.  To top it off my wife has been on my back to get started on the layout.  I can't use the excuse of not enough money, nor can I say I don't have the time or space so YES, my biggest obstacle is ME.  How do I get past ME? 

Maybe enlist the aid of a friend who might enjoy spending time with you building the railroad? It could be a process interrupted by an occasional burger burn or cold drink break.

Looks like that's exactly what I'm going to do.  Burn a burger or two, crack open a few cold ones and maybe even get some work done -  yep sounds good to me.  

Kinda harsh, there, William.    After all,  it's just a hobby.  Maybe deep down the poster doesn't really want to get this going.  A few things I've procrastinated on now I'm glad I didn't follow through.

Too many control systems

Biggest Obstacle to starting a 3 rail layout? Creating a mountain in the corner ---- of my "5 % grade Helix"and finding a $300 engine that is worth $30....

The THIRD Rail! 

Good morning, I think for me is the fact where do I store all the items that I have on my existing layout ???

From engines to rolling stock to buildings and track.

I am looking track plans for next layout which will not be a table top like I have now. I want my next layout to be no wider than 6 or 7' so I can reach things in the middle. if the area is wider than this I want o be able to have access on both sides.

For me although the track plan is important for running trains and train operations, the scenery on the layout is what gives it the wow factor.

Wanting to start a two rail O layout more?

For me it was all the HO stuff I still have.   Boxes and boxes of good HO engines, cars, and passenger sets.  But HO got too small for my eyes and hands to work with. All it took was a Lionel Polar Express set in O for Christmas and I was in!   Now I have filled every spot on a 12x6 layout. Nowhere to park the engines and rolling stock I have.    Onto building shelves???  : ) 

Jim

Cleaning out the BASEMENT,  i.e. "Ambition" !!!

Knowing what I wanted. My kids laugh every time I decide to change things up. It's been 12 years since I got my childhood trains back from my brother and 8 layouts. I've pretty much figured out that I enjoy buying selling and building more than running.

Spouse/Space/$auce

For many of the folks reading this Thread, you might think that $$$$$ is the biggest Obstacle Keeping Men, Women, Boys, and Girls from jumping into this really Multifaceted Hobby....And, You might also think Space is Another Obstacle keeping the same folks from getting in the Hobby....ITS NOT, it's In Our Mind, A Dream of something wanted, but, Our Mind just Thinks, It does not do the Actual Work.... WELL, THE ANSWER IS, My Suggestion, Make a few friends in Your Local Area, possibly in the same Town/County that You live in, check out their Train Layout or Display, or Possibly a Club Layout, or Display, also, Attend a Local Train Meet, TCA, LCCA Meet, and Get EXCITED!!! In our area, Nashville, Tn., Clarksville, Tn, Madisonville, Ky., Evansville, in., Owensboro, Ky., We have 25 to 40 folks interested  in O Guage, HO Guage, N Guage, with different aspects of the Hobby...Some just like running trains, some carpentry, some like electrical, some painting and kit bashing.....It's Multifaceted....If you do not have space, a dedicated room, You can build around the Walls, Yes, above your Doors....Also, fastrack works on the Floor. So, if you want to get into this Great Hobby, Get Started....Once you make friends with other folks in this hobby, you will really find a satisfaction that is very rewarding....Enjoy...

Space, and more space...

#Leapinlarry great post and you are right, it's more fun sharing salute ����

Money - lots of it will solve most problems.

After many years as a scale fanatic in HO and On30, I got burned out. Then one day I stopped looking down my nose at 3 rail O-gauge when I realized I just wanted to run trains.

For me, the biggest obstacle to 3 rail O-gauge was being a slave away at doing things the "right" way. LOL 

Now with O-27, in 39" ×  80" I can run 2 trains at once.  Wouldn't even had considered an HO scale layout that small.

Not starting. 

I would guess that most of us started with an easy oval around the tree or on a 4x8 sheet of 3/4 plywood.  You will learn a lot with an easy start.  No need to try to duplicate the fabulous pics seen here and in the mag.  That will be later or maybe never.

Want to.  All the excuses can be worked out if you want to enough.  Simple as Want to.

Charlie