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What is your opinion of how well things are selling on the used train market? I have seen a lot of items sitting and not moving both here and elsewhere. I realize that used train cars, accessories, and other things are only worth a fraction of their new price. But, you can only go so low. Please do not view this as an individual complaint I am just curious. Thanks very much for any opinions that you would care to express. I really appreciate it.

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I was selling G gauge trains at a garden railroad meet last weekend.  I had low prices and sold every item that I brought.  I am going to the Cal-Stewart meet in Northern CA next weekend.  I hope to sell a lot of O gauge.

I think that things will sell if the price is low enough.  I do hate giving away things but that seems to be what it takes to sell used items.  On the other hand, some of the things that I am selling have been sitting under my layout for years.  I might as well convert them to any cash that I can get because it is painfully apparent that I probably will never run them or use them.

NH Joe

I recently sold my Lionel el capitan add-on cars for double or triple what I paid for them when they were new in 6 years ago.  But I can't get nearly what I paid for my Lionel PS2 hoppers new from the same time period.

Depends on the item, but some stuff is basically worthless.  (If you can only get $10 for a piece of rolling stock, I'd say toss it rather than going through the bother of selling on the internet).

Michael, my view is that things, on the Forum here at least, have been kind of slow lately.  I've seen several items listed for sale -- items that were outside of my particular interests but priced very attractively nonetheless -- and they just sat there  for days and days.    But then overall, I'd say this audience is a much "tougher crowd," maybe a more discerning train buyer to a man, than the auction-site audience.  Some of my own experiences recently as a seller would back that up.

I think one of the problems with the used toy train market is that there is so much product to choose from that people get a little numb looking at it all.

That said, when selling your trains people have to understand that unless  a buyer is emotionally attached to an item they will just as soon wait until a new item is available before they take out their wallet for anything close to retail.

I have made a profit on some items that I bought, but  they are far and few between. On the most part when I buy something it's to have fun with it.  So when I'm done playing with it I trade it for something else, or sell it, but I expect to take a loss on it regardless of it's condition.

So in short, until I figure out a way to take them with me they all remain just toys.

If you don't want it and can't sell it, perhaps give it away to someone who can use it? When i used to have a couple of tables at train shows, I would occasionally put out a few such items (plus old catalogs, small accessories, etc.) under a "Free!" sign. Boy, would that attract a crowd to my table. Never a thing left, either. And once in a while, someone would also notice something that I WAS selling and end up buying it.

gg1man posted:

I would much rather give something away then throw it away after years in a junk box. Especially  after I played with for a few years.

Dave Warburton posted:

If you don't want it and can't sell it, perhaps give it away to someone who can use it? When i used to have a couple of tables at train shows, I would occasionally put out a few such items (plus old catalogs, small accessories, etc.) under a "Free!" sign. Boy, would that attract a crowd to my table. Never a thing left, either. And once in a while, someone would also notice something that I WAS selling and end up buying it.

In both these cases, you are talking about expending your own time, energy, and other resources just to find someone to take it from you for free.  Now you are truly going negative in these transactions (unless you light up some kid's face when he gets a train car for free.  Even I can't put a number/dollar on that).

 

Lots of stuff for sale here and elsewhere. Hopefully more younger folks are getting into this hobby than we imagine but I would think that there are more of us moving on (passing on?) which increases the used train supply.

I see great deals here that like Mike mentioned above, often sit here for several days until they disappear to the back pages unsold.  

If you're looking for something special - have patience, it will show up!

I have always purchased non operating trains and fixed them for re sale.  I also stand behind them.  For guys who do that (not shops) we are all hearing "what is the bottom price"   People do not want to pay a fair price from someone reliable but will roll the dice and get screwed big time on fleabay.   Everyone wants to be a wheeler/dealer  and get the lowest price.  I blame the TV show American Pickers.  Everyone thinks they are Mike or Frank and want to beat you up on your price.  I smiled when they got screwed on a junk state set.  Their expert told them only a few  of those sets exist.  Experts exist in Iowa and I do not know where they got that guy.

I have always considered the OGR Forum the best place to deal on used trains.

Last edited by Marty Fitzhenry

For me, it really isn't worth even considering anymore. I have only command control engines and haven't had the best experiences in the used market. For another $100-$200 more (give or take) I would much rather have a new item with a full warranty that you know has not been abused. Rolling stock may be of slightly more interest, but I no longer go looking for anything used.

Edit: After seeing Marty's post above, I would consider something used that Marty F, GRJ, GGG and maybe some others here had thoroughly gone through and repaired. I trust their work, they are very reputable repair folks. I think this would as good as purchasing a new item.  

Last edited by rtr12

I have to say that it has been my observation that the for sale value of used modern, post-war and pre-war trains seems to depend on the venue in which they are offered.  I watch and participate on E-Bay, I watch and participate on our Buy/sell forum and I also watch and participate in various internet auctions.  While things may be slow here and on E-Bay they certainly aren't slow on the auction sites.  Everything goes and most of it goes above what the auction site quotes as the estimated value of the piece.  A lot of the stuff is in great condition but some of it is not and it still goes for a high price.  Also, it should be taken into consideration that these auction sites demand a buyer's premium which is as high as 19% but despite that fact the bidding is fast and furious and I would dare say the items are going for a heck of a lot more than 20% of their original purchase price.  Bottom line, from my perspective if you are selling them at the right place they will not sit.       

RTR12, you are a very smart man.   I only run command and have no need for the old stuff.  Unless a person has train friend resources, buying new is the smart move.  I tell my friends when you get it new, operate it and if you have an issue you can get warranty or larger dealers will give you a new one to keep you as a happy customer.  

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

RTR12, you are a very smart man.   I only run command and have no need for the old stuff.  Unless a person has train friend resources, buying new is the smart move.  I tell my friends when you get it new, operate it and if you have an issue you can get warranty or larger dealers will give you a new one to keep you as a happy customer.  

Thanks Marty, I revised my above post. I would trust something from you, GRJ or GGG (maybe others). You all have very good reputations and know what you are doing with these trains and stand behind your work. I think that is just as good as new and with a warranty.

I was at our local Greenberg show today, fewer dealers, a bit thin crowd and after two hours the dealers were ready to bargain.  Bad weather didn't keep people away so it would be fun to go tomorrow but I have other plans. It is like any other market-seemed a bit slow but there were a lot of high priced items, I thought. I almost came home without spending any money but that is silly so I bought three more locos I don't need. this in the post war market and there was a bunch of newer items that I didn't look at.  I know dealers want to make a buck and have expenses but they are selling USED things and the buyer has little idea what he is getting. I don't and won't eBay but do buy a lot now off the forum. If I was a seller, I think I would have a few or more items that are getting dusty and use them as a loss leader. A seller said to me as we  bargained over an engine,"I want to sell these things, not marry them!". A funny time-the market looks sft but some sky high prices too.

Down here in southern Missisippi there is no used train market, however when I 

attended the Foley, Alabama train show I was quite surprised at how much and how low the prices were for all toy train gauges, esp. O.

I asked around and found that so many folks retire to the south and down size

so they have to sell their collections.

I have purchased on that EBay place and got what I wanted and it worked until 

either it or me wore out. Now it's one of those 'Queens' you guys mention from time to time. Nice to look at, and something to dust, but I had my fun and am satisfied.

 

Last edited by Rufus

I prefer to not buy used locomotives unless I know the engine and owner. I purchased an MTH engine on the forum and wasn't happy with it. I guess the fact that it was sent back to MTH for repair should've been a red flag. Now I only purchase new engines. Anything else I'll consider used but not abused. 

I've not had any luck selling the items I've had listed on the forum. No, I'm not going to give them away but I also think I'm asking fair prices. Sometimes you win, sometimes you wait! 

I see the market on Postwar opening up big time in current years. As the older folks die off and the popularity of "electronic" trains increases, more and more people will likely want the latest and greatest while the Postwar market dries up. 

 

 

The bottom dropped out of the hobby, used train market several years back and hasn't changed. There are currently more trains available than buyers. The market is flooded with trains and the supply is larger than the demand because the demographic of those that buy the trains is rapidly changing.

Its a great time for the buyer as bargains abound. I was at a train show today and it was very crowded. The prices of used trains were generally very reasonable but I noticed very few people buying. Just my observation.

eBay is a hit and miss, got some great deals and some real very bad deals as well. I try to stay away from it now unless someone with a great reputation. I also will buy from the forum and someone with a good or great reputation. I really looking forward to go to the York meet in April. PS I just sold most of my HO train collection  via train show, LHS and eBay.  I also redirected and right sized my O scale using the same method. 

Maybe more people are getting like me.....I have realized that I have trains that I haven't run in years, and, have been running and enjoying them instead of getting new ones....

I did pull the trigger recently on 3 weaver Army flats offered on the Buy/Sell board....I want to increase the length of my Army train which is a big hit at our modular set up.....

Ordered nothing from the last 2 Lionel & MTH catalogs.....

Peter

 

 

I help another forum member sell at North Carolina TCA and other train shows. We cannot hardly sell post war trains anymore. For most of the trains that are being sold at shows prices have dropped way off. A few guys still think their trains are worth what they were in the 80's. I have a large post war collection myself and I pretty much quit buying anymore. Now I wonder if I can ever sell it off and make anything without losing too much. I agree post war is a dead player.

Rob

Both Oldrob and Marty are correct with the Postwar.  Prewar is also pretty much in the same boat as Postwar. I agree that the modern O with all the up to date features are at a premier price.  Just look around at eBay and run a search and everything without the up to date features is not moving. Look at the larger train stores which are web based are try to move there old inventory and nothing is moving.

I just bought an Atlas F3 with TMCC off Ebay for $190, the seller said the sound did not work.

Turned out to be a blown speaker, but in the process of fixing that I found a motor mounting screw down inside the gearing and 3 stripped out screw holes all on 1 truck.  All were fixed and it runs and sounds great.

I've gotten what I think are great deals on old Williams brass steam engines the past couple of years, but the prices on them now can be all over the place.  Today there are 3 Williams brass N&S 4-8-4 J 611 engines, Buy Now prices of 2 are $550 and 1 is $390, the 2 at $550 have been on there for months if not years.

I've been looking for a 4-8-2 that has spoked, see-thru drivers and not blanked off (non-see thru) or Boxpok drivers.  The prices are ridiculous for the type of 4-8-2 I want.

The only train shows I've been to are the Greenberg and World's Greatest Hobby shows and from what I've seen are vendors dragging the same old pieces to show after show asking the same, high price.

I still try to go to these shows (got one coming to Hampton next month) but I find better deals on Ebay.

I can speak as a buyer and not a seller. I still consider ourselves getting into the hobby. We hit up the local train shows, and of course, all of the wonderful forumites I've met from purchasing on here and one or two of our LHS that have used gear. We went to the Parma show today and I spent maybe 50 bucks on some rolling stock, parts, and a few other things? My brother picked up a scout set for my nephew for 45, my dad.. well he went a bit nuts and spent like 300 on stuff.

For our needs the 5-20 range is perfect and I will usually buy it then. I don't mind if the cars are a bit dinged up or "well loved" my 3 year old is going to be helping me run the railroad. As long as they roll and are a bit serviceable that is good for us. I'd rather have PW or MPC stuff, not much to go wrong on them, especially MPC rolling stock.

I guess as a "Younger" buyer what I have to consider is this: With a 500 dollar student loan payment a month, and 800 in day care plus my wife's student loans, mortgage, etc, can I afford that 80 dollar new or used box car or will a 5-10 dollar used purchase give the same enjoyment and play value for my little boy?

The used market is the only reason I am able to share this hobby with my son. Without the amazing people on here who I've met and corresponded with while purchasing I wouldn't have much of anything. I've gotten advice, good quality used stuff, good prices, and a lot of smiles. I look at the used section every day on here and look for items that are going to work with our budget.

So, anyways, thank you to all who are selling used gear, you've got at least one person looking and thank you to all who have helped out Henry, Ollie, and I.

 

Side note, if anyone is just going to throw out old stuff, feel free to send our way, I've got two little boys who love trains. ;-)

 

I think the market is down.  I recently found a shop in St. Louis that sells used trains at less than Ebay prices.  The guy buys from estate sales after the collector dies and resells them in his tiny shop.  He is overflowing with trains from so many collectors passing on.  I think the supply of used trains will continue to expand as more collectors die.  Demographics I suppose.  The following generations are all smaller.  So I expect prices to stay low.  Hopefully not so low that old trains just get thrown away!  But as a buyer with a small budget I am very happy. 

Honestly, with my small mid-life budget, if my participation in the toy train hobby was only through new trains I would be priced out of the hobby.  The lull in the used market might allow the entry of the future hobby's new blood.

Nathan

I think that the market for used trains is soft as some folks mentioned above. I was at the Allentown train meet today. Some sellers had things priced to sell and others didn't. One guy had a bunch of Atlas Trainman and Master rolling stock for $25 to $50 with no obvious damage but no boxes. I didn't have much money so all I bought was a Trainman gondola for $25. The only thing wrong with it is it is dusty. I saw MTH Premier PS1 CNJ Blue comet steam locomotive for $390. I felt that was a little high for PS1. Not outrageous but a little high. Last year I saw a PS1 Premier NYC Hudson for $280. I am still kicking myself for not buying that one. One guy had a very old 2 rail hopper. It looked terrible and he wanted $150 for it. No way I am spending a $150 on something that looks that bad--I don't care if it is brass. (It might have been. I don't know. I didn't ask)

I think a lot of stuff on eBay is people fishing. They are selling something that they know is worth X amount of dollars and putting a minimum price on it on eBay that is way more than it is worth. I think they aim to catch someone who doesn't know the market or who can't get to the market and get them to overpay for the item. For instance just today I saw an Atlas (Roco from the '70s) stock car (No way I would pay more than $10 for one of these at a show) for $10. I thought about it and it was a fair price but I really don't need another project right now as I would have to get trucks with metal wheels and install Kadees. Add the cost of trucks and couplers and I am almost at the cost of a used Trainman car. So I passed on it. I was just surfing eBay today when I got home and I saw the same exact car for $19 plus shipping. To me that is way over priced.

Sometimes deals can be found on eBay. But you really have to be streetwise so to speak. Recently, I saw a MTH Premier PS1 SP GP38-2 for $79.95. I don't remember exactly how the seller described it but I read through the lines of what the seller said and I was fairly certain that this locomotives didn't run at all. But I didn't care because I planned to gut the electronics and convert it to 2 rail. I meant to bid on it but I forgot all about it and someone else got it for $80. I hope that person knew what they were doing and were not one of the people that Marty described.

I think the reason why the used train market is soft is because there are a lot of used trains out there from guys who have bought newer stuff and are getting rid of their old stuff or from guys who have passed on and their collections are sold. So you have a lot of trains in the market but less buyers. Therefore the buyers can afford to be more picky. Then to make sales some sellers lower their prices. In some rare occurrences a seller will have an item so uncommon and desirable that they will make a profit on it. It happens once in a while but not often.

This is just my opinion. I'm having fun even in times like this when I don't have a lot to spend.

I think the opinions on this forum are more slanted toward serious collecting and serious operating.  From what I see at train shows, the sellers with postwar and good prices do very well.  I priced my stuff at or below eBay completed sales with multiple bids.  I was very happy with my sales; postwar, mpc, LTI etc.  The vast majority of buyers were not there to buy legacy version 16 or dcs ver 22.0.  They were shopping for items with value or some specific items.  The overpriced stuff stayed on the tables, as it has for the past 30yrs.  Just like other retail and secondary market places, people tend to shop for value.  

I seriously appreciate that high priced stuff at train shows cause it makes my stuff look like a bargain.  

It's funny that people expect their cars, furniture and clothes to go down in value over time or with use.  But they expect their TOY trains to go up in value endlessly.

Remember it is simply supply and demand.  Kinda like capitalism.  Is this a great country or what.

Last edited by aussteve

Used trains, especially postwar, have a childhood memory value that is priceless to me. You cannot duplicate those childhood experiences, sort of like your first love, you always remember your first kiss, your first Lionel.

Kindly put a mint or near mint military train on the dining room table and watch us few remaining postwar fanatics gobble it up, sort of like enjoying a powder sugar funnel cake at York.

enjoy all those NEW and OLD trains...

 

For all you who say postwar is dead, I have a hard time satisfying my thirst for it at local shows. More times than not when I attend local shows, I have yet to exhaust my budget for lack of supply and 80's prices. Too much HO, TMCC, DCS, and Legacy that is not in my market as a consumer.

Then there is going into some train stores and asking for postwar - it's just like walking into a car dealership today asking for standard* manual transmission vehicles. In my mind, it is only seems dead because it isn't as available.

For all you who claim postwar is dead, I can guarantee you all it won't be dead for as long as I live (and I'm young enough to likely by your child/grandchild) as it is and will remain a focus of mine.

 

 

*I actually had some sales people interpret standard as automatic or CVT because it is what comes as standard stock Next time I should ask if I can get 3 on the tree with vacuum assist.

My brother has been selling some my Dad's trains he left him this past year.There were Z,S,G and O scale trains.I was surprised at how much all the trains still held value.He got a lot less than my Dad paid back for the trains back in the 80s and 90s,but the trains sold for way more than I thought they would.He had the ambition to sell most of the items on Ebay,which he got decent prices for.Based on seeing my brother's selling experience,the train market is still alive,but you have to  be realistic on prices and deal with the Ebay listing and shipping effort for a good buck on used trains.  

It's funny that people expect their cars, furniture and clothes to go down in value over time or with use.  But they expect their TOY trains to go up in value endlessly.

The same can be said for any collectable. And for a long time the prices  of collectables, including trains, did go up.
The whole collector market is soft. You can read about the same concerns in many antique collector / dealer magazines. The problem is largely a lack of new blood. Younger people aren't interested in accumulating stuff. They don't have the money, space, or time to devote.
So what does soft really mean?
In my area, if you price your trains reasonably at the local shows they sell. I am almost always happy with my sales. Many of my fellow dealers price their stuff much higher, and bring the same stuff back and forth to all the shows, show after show. 
And Postwar is far from dead. I watch lots of stuff on EBay, the prices realized seem plenty high to me.

Last edited by C W Burfle
C W Burfle posted:

The same can be said for any collectable.
The whole collector market is soft. You can read about the same concerns in many antique collector / dealer magazines.

I need to sell off the Sarah Coventry jewelry my wife collected until her death in 2014, but I know if I try now what I'll get is nowhere near what she paid for it.  I might have to take the hit because I need the space if I want to enlarge my layout.

Speaking as a non professional seller of trains there are cost involved that you have to cover as a sell. If you go to the local show it is your time, gas, paying for the table and sale tax.   In my area the tax man comes to make sure you are collecting the sale tax and wants to see your certificate. Verses website which has it fees which are a percentage of the sale, listing, shipping and a fee on getting your funds. I was talking to an old timer from the LHS (who I  respect and is very knowledgeable) he was telling me stories that some the show/meets the best deals where made in the parking lot not at the show. And that is still true at some of the shows from what I have read. Long story short parking lot deal data does not get factored to what the going rate is for trains,  yes it is a smaller market but it is still there.

If you go to the local show it is your time, gas, paying for the table and sale tax.

I agree on having to factor in sales tax, and the cost of the table. For me time and gas aren't factors for local shows. I do set up at the shows to sell, but there is also a social aspect to the show. (and I often buy a few things too) Many of the table holders know each other, as well as some of the attendees, and the folks operating the display layouts.

For me, York is a different story. When I go to York as a non-table holder, all the expenses are just part of the hobby. Same goes for getting tables at York with a group of people, so we can take turns looking around and visiting. (selling isn't the primary purpose of attending)
If I was to go to York myself or with my wife specifically to sell trains, I'd want to cover all my expenses.

Last edited by C W Burfle

I don't think a lot of buyers take in to account the sellers expenses plus they usually do have to pay something for the item so what you pay isn't pure profit.  One reason if someone is liquidating a family collection it can go cheaper-sometimes. There could be regional differences too. There is an antique dealer who is a wholesaler and collects stuff around here and takes it down south to sell. He was telling a dealer and I that twin beds are a dog around here but  he  can sell them in Mississippi. Used cars and collectible cars are the same way.

To me it goes up and down all year. Perfect example I bought a about 6 months ago I picked up a 1055 Texas special for about $30 including shipping. And it had a couple of cars with it. The other night I bettered than doubled my money just on the engine the next day I saw one for sale ending about the same time and listed about $20 less than I got and not a hit. It all depends a lot who is at the show/on auction site etc. Yard sales can be the same sometimes you can't get 2 cents for stuff other times you can get double there value to me it just how it falls I have made and I have lost on trains but to me the secondary market ( your original question ) is very much alive now is it better for the seller or the buyer depends on the day and whats going on I would say. 

I agree with Jdaddy - market is saturated and prices aren't reflecting it in most cases. 

I have a local used shop I frequent - they deal mainly in post war and tinplate - but they do get in modern equipment from time to time.  They had garages full and the shop stuffed at this time last year. They were blowing Weaver out for $10-15 a car.

This year inventory is completely depleted - everything in the store is mostly shelf filler from the year before.  I asked and they said they aren't getting inventory because they can't buy and sell at the current prices sellers /estates are asking. To combat it, they are stuffing shelves with die-cast which is booming for them - as soon as they sell it, there's 10 more people bringing it in. 

 

I think one of the problems with the used toy train market is that there is so much product to choose from that people get a little numb looking at it all.

I don't see this as a problem at all.  Bubbles burst and reality arrives.  Realistic prices on so much product is what will let many modelers get into and stay in the hobby. 

bmoran4 posted:

For all you who claim postwar is dead, I can guarantee you all it won't be dead for as long as I live (and I'm young enough to likely by your child/grandchild) as it is and will remain a focus of mine.

 Funny you should mention this. I've been running my postwar rolling stock for a few weeks now.  ( though I'll admit I am using modern engines to pull them , I like the features ) You have to admit the postwar rolling stock has stood the test of time, don't forget the 6464 series !   Are they scale ? are the realistic ? Who cares .... They are fun and that is what counts.

Speaking from my own experience, postwar was the way I entered into O scale world.  They are cheap and widely available and can be purchase at reasonable prices. As I grow older my taste chanced as did the O scale market and I like the Modern O scale items. I however will not purchase the engine that over thousands dollars sorry but I do not have that kind of disposal income. For those that do god bless and enjoy hobby at your level.  I always am on the look out for a good second hand PS-2 engine or freight cars  that will fit my collection and my budget.

Aldovar posted:

I can speak as a buyer and not a seller. I still consider ourselves getting into the hobby. We hit up the local train shows, and of course, all of the wonderful forumites I've met from purchasing on here and one or two of our LHS that have used gear. We went to the Parma show today and I spent maybe 50 bucks on some rolling stock, parts, and a few other things? My brother picked up a scout set for my nephew for 45, my dad.. well he went a bit nuts and spent like 300 on stuff.

For our needs the 5-20 range is perfect and I will usually buy it then. I don't mind if the cars are a bit dinged up or "well loved" my 3 year old is going to be helping me run the railroad. As long as they roll and are a bit serviceable that is good for us. I'd rather have PW or MPC stuff, not much to go wrong on them, especially MPC rolling stock.

I guess as a "Younger" buyer what I have to consider is this: With a 500 dollar student loan payment a month, and 800 in day care plus my wife's student loans, mortgage, etc, can I afford that 80 dollar new or used box car or will a 5-10 dollar used purchase give the same enjoyment and play value for my little boy?

The used market is the only reason I am able to share this hobby with my son. Without the amazing people on here who I've met and corresponded with while purchasing I wouldn't have much of anything. I've gotten advice, good quality used stuff, good prices, and a lot of smiles. I look at the used section every day on here and look for items that are going to work with our budget.

So, anyways, thank you to all who are selling used gear, you've got at least one person looking and thank you to all who have helped out Henry, Ollie, and I.

 

Side note, if anyone is just going to throw out old stuff, feel free to send our way, I've got two little boys who love trains. ;-)

 

I concur (as a fellow Clevelander). I just started paying tuition bills for my 3rd oldest, so Key Bank is getting a much bigger check from me each month than online store or LHS.  In large part, that's what drove me to stick with semi-scale. Even with shipping included, I've amassed a nice collection of $10-$25 gently-used Rugged Rails, Industrial Rail, and traditional Lionel and K-Line rolling stock to run with semi-scale TMCC and PW conventional engines. The used market has treated me well so far. I appreciate that O-Gauge has room for $200 engines and $2,000 engines.

Michael,

   Being a Tin Plate kind of runner with some Post War and modern mixed in, I find the good Tin Plate rolling stock and especially the well maintained engines, to be way over priced, even if there happens to be more Tin, at the show than in prior years.  Some of the older real nice 810 Crane Cars & original Lionel Red Cabooses, border on being priced not to sell.  It's almost like some of the vendors bring them as show pieces, and if they happen to sell one, at the way out of whack price, so be it.  Got to admit some of the vendors do have good prices on full P2 Train sets, NIB, if you have the money on hand to purchase the full sets.  Recently a Vendor at one of the Antique stores I like, has had some good deals on Tin Plate, and I will probably return again and purchase from him.  These are the kind of Tin Plate deals that are seldom still around however.  I also picked up a pristine 80's era conventional Coca Cola Train for real decent money in that same Antique store, I did have to haggle to get the price I wanted however.  I do like to horse trade now and then and I am pretty good at it. 

PCRR/Dave

 

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For postwar, I'll only buy it if there is an emotional connection. For example, as a kid I had a Texas Special 1055, like those described above. It got tossed when we moved and I'd like to have it back.  If I saw one in decent shape for $20 - 30, I'd grab it. So if the piece has some meaning and the price is right, I'll buy. Every now and then it is fun to run my postwar stuff. It is a pleasant reminder of my childhood.

Otherwise, I prefer new equipment, which is nicely painted, runs more smoothly and does many more things. I can easily run 25 car trains behind Williams locomotives for as long as I'd like. Modern cars roll easily and track well through switches. Postwar cars have higher rolling resistance limiting the size of trains you can pull (and yes, I do oil the axles!).

To me from an operating standpoint, modern equipment is far superior. From an emotional standpoint, there's something wonderful about a 736 pulling a freight or a 2353 pulling an aluminum streamliner. A collector's standpoint would be entirely different.

Too much postwar on dealers' tables is dirty, rusty, with no price on it. Then you ask and wonder if you are getting the best price. Or you get the story about how rare and valuable the piece is. Who cares if the piece has chipped decals, scratches and may run poorly? For collectors, the piece should be in excellent condition to command the prices in the guides. For operators it should be clean and a good value. A clean piece with normal wear should not command the guide price for a like new piece, but many dealers seem to think it should and carry these pieces back and forth to show after show. My choice is not to buy; their choice is to hold out for the price they want, and that is what makes the world go around. As long as the choices are freely made it is all good. That's how a free market should work. The best sellers price items to sell and put money in their pockets, then hustle to gather new merchandise and repeat the process.

I like to run my trains, so the newer equipment does the job for me. But every now and then I do enjoy a nostalgic postwar night! When my son comes over, he always asks to run the postwar stuff, which was all we had when he was a child.

 

 

 

Buyers can be very fickle and unpredictable.  Guys will trip over themselves ordering the new (and overpriced) VisionLine GG-1 at $1190, yet I've had just one lone response thus far showing "casual interest" for an unblemished, Like-New, Lionel JLC GG-1 for $450.     Really??? 

Newsflash people... It ain't going any lower than that.    If it doesn't move at that price, it's staying on my roster.  

Selling trains here on the forum from time to time, I've seen my share of surprises relative to what moves quickly and what lingers for weeks -- or sometimes months.  I was very surprised that the Lionel 18" Santa Fe High-level Superliners took a few months to move.  They were as MINT as the day I bought them.  And you just don't see that kind of stuff hit the market very often, if ever.  Yet because I wasn't "giving them away", they sat for awhile until the right buyer came along.

Everybody, myself included, likes a great deal.  But sometimes I think sellers on the forum have "conditioned" buyers to behave a certain way.  

I prefer to post things at VERY fair prices.  And on occasion, I'll offer ONE price reduction as a "show special" as an extra incentive (if it sits for awhile).  But as a general rule I don't offer daily price reductions of $10-$25, because that only conditions buyers to expect yet another price reduction tomorrow.  And it more than likely sends a message that the seller needs cash quickly -- which may or may not be the case at all.  

More importantly, I don't think a $10-$20 price reduction is gonna make that much of a difference on a $500+ item, because if somebody were truly interested they could OFFER the seller that difference without "needing their permission".  I get offers for less-than-the-asking price all the time.  Sometimes I'll go for it if the offer keeps the deal in win-win territory.  Other times, I'll reject the offer if it falls into the win-lose category -- something I've needed to do on occasion, because I'm not in the market of giving stuff away.  

Yet there are days I honestly think buyers here are just WAITING for sellers to give stuff away.  And I guess that simply indicates to a large degree how much of a toy train glut exists out there on the market today.  

I agree with Mario's earlier post, when he said folks' eyes just glaze over after a certain point.

David

David,

    I agree with a lot of what you say, however regarding the JLC GG1 if it was TMCC, I would purchase her from you, I have numerous Conventional GG1's already and probably most people here on the OGR do also.  Further I think the guys purchasing the new vision line GG1's at that cost, have lost their minds completely.  Each individual has his own ideas at to what he most wants to own however and if this new high cost stuff makes them happy, so be it.  Me I have some fine L C Smith double guns that I treasure as much as my O Gauge Trains, so I try to keep the addiction on some what of a reasonable cost entity.

PCRR/Dave  

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

David,

    I agree with a lot of what you say, however regarding the JLC GG1 if it was TMCC, I would purchase her from you, I have numerous Conventional GG1's already and probably most people here on the OGR do also.  ...

Dave, the Lionel JLC GG-1's are equipped with TMCC.  They were produced in the 2007/2008 timeframe, and catalog'd with an $899 MSRP.  I will update my listing, so folks are aware of this subtlety.

David

Buyers can be very fickle and unpredictable.  Guys will trip over themselves ordering the new (and overpriced) VisionLine GG-1 at $1190, yet I've had just one lone response thus far showing "casual interest" for an unblemished, Like-New, Lionel JLC GG-1 for $450.     Really??? 

Your JLC GG-1 has no warrantee, and then there is the issue of the cost / availability of parts. What is a two year warrantee worth?

Automobiles depreciate at perhaps 10-15% per year, although it's not linear.  If trains do the same, an 8 year old locomotive might only be worth 20-30% of a new one.   Since locomotives aren't as heavily used as automobiles, figure that even 40% of what you paid 8 years ago is optimistic in the current market.  No warranty, unknown amounts of use and even accidents/abuse. Not to mention the big one: entropy.  Materials deteriorate, some faster than others.  Try selling a used or even "mint in the box" toothbrush or pair of socks to pick an extreme example or two

Last edited by Landsteiner

"Guys will trip over themselves ordering the new (and overpriced) VisionLine GG-1 at $1190, yet I've had just one lone response thus far showing "casual interest" for an unblemished, Like-New, Lionel JLC GG-1 for $450.     Really??? "

Apparently the market is speaking, but rather than hear the message, you seem to be becoming indignant.  Cannot imagine that makes for a pleasant Sunday.  Suggest meditation and mindfulness, acceptance of the sorrows of life, including toy train depreciation. Really.

C W Burfle posted:

... Your JLC GG-1 has no warrantee, and then there is the issue of the cost / availability of parts. What is a two year warrantee worth?

Neither do die-cast ES44's -- even if you could find a brand new one on a shelf in your LHS.   That doesn't seem to prevent folks from paying astronomical prices for them.  

Not that I need to defend my earlier post, but that's yet another example of why I stated the used market is so unpredictable about what sells quickly and what doesn't.

David

I really seem at odds with so many toy train enthusiasts.

Yes, I had Lionels as a boy, in the 1950s. Tubular track. Had some Super O when I sold everything and left toy trains.

I have zero desire to reacquire any of that stuff! Even back then I just wanted more realistic trains. I hungered after the beautiful models advertised in the magazines. Overland stuff and Walthers scale passenger cars. Of course I could afford none of it on a kid's allowance!

No conventional running, no tubular track, no postwar stuff for me.  Just doesn't interest me. Rather perplexes me that so many people love this stuff. Now we see a resurgence of tinplate . . . with sound no less???

Ah, well. Excuse me. I don't much like the Mona Lisa either. Think I'd wrap fish in it!

So you can appreciate my perplexity when I found the nostalgia guys paying as much for Lionel Budd cars from the 50s as I paid for this . . .

RDC3

My experience with the used market is usually trying to buy a 3-rd Rail item, not some 1955 Lionel locomotive. It's just an entirely different mentality. Probably all old hat to most here but I am only recently returned to the toy train scene and it was really a surprise to me.

I should hve anticipated it. About ten years ago I visited some long-time friends of my late wife. They had a basement full of mostly new Lionel stuff. They wouldn't even take it out of the boxes!! "It hurts resale values!," they told me.

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  • RDC3
Landsteiner posted:

"Guys will trip over themselves ordering the new (and overpriced) VisionLine GG-1 at $1190, yet I've had just one lone response thus far showing "casual interest" for an unblemished, Like-New, Lionel JLC GG-1 for $450.     Really??? "

Apparently the market is speaking, but rather than hear the message, you seem to be becoming indignant.  Cannot imagine that makes for a pleasant Sunday.  Suggest meditation and mindfulness, acceptance of the sorrows of life, including toy train depreciation. Really.

Landsteiner, you've missed the point AGAIN!!! We're talking about the unpredictability of the used toy train market.  Good gosh, man.  You'd find fault and misinterpret somebody wishing you a Happy Birthday -- just because you don't like them.    Tough place to live.  So spare us the free psycho-babble advice.

David

"We're talking about the unpredictability of the used toy train market"

Actually, you were whimpering about how people less astute than yourself were buying the overpriced (your favorite word of the last year or so) Vision GG1 and ignoring your oh so lovely JLC GG1 which was bargain priced to your way of thinking. 

My point, reasonably apposite, is that your GG1 is perhaps not bargain priced, and that those purchasing the new GG1 may prefer the newest GG1, warranty by Lionel, and definitely not 8 years old,....a previously enjoyed GG1.  That isn't psycho-babble, it's cold hard fact.  And very much to the point of this thread.

 

PS--I have no opinion one way or the other about you, and I certainly don't dislike you or anyone else.  Forming opinions about people's character based upon internet discussion forums is an act of lunacy.  That said, I think you are distinctly wrong about Lionel's pricing strategies and what they mean.  It is still permissible to disagree one assumes? 

 

Last edited by Landsteiner
Landsteiner posted:

... Actually, you were whimpering about how people less astute than yourself were buying the overpriced (your favorite word of the last year or so) Vision GG1 and ignoring your oh so lovely JLC GG1 which was bargain priced to your way of thinking.  ...

Landsteiner, this is the last thing I'm planning to say on this issue.  But your ability to casually mis-interpret and/or represent people's comments so disrespectfully is a lesson to be learned by all folks posting here.  It's part of social media that I detest.

My comment about the JLC GG-1 (as well as the Superliners) not selling as quick as I thought they would was meant to illustrate more surprise than anything else -- especially since I've sold a few items here.  I find your representation of that comment to infer that I'm speaking in a condescending tone or talking with any level where I'm being more astute than others to be highly offensive -- not to be completely inaccurate.

Thank goodness i don't need you to speak on my behalf, but I don't appreciate you misrepresenting what I post either.  If you wish to participate in this topic, please try to do so without using terms like whimpering and condescension -- only to follow them with a friendly smiley in attempts to give you a pass as if you're being cute.

I'm as thick-skinned as the next guy here, but I also try to welcome other's opinions without being disrespectful to them.  Please don't give me cause to make an exception to that rule in you case.

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer

"I also try to be respectful of other's opinions without being disrespectful to them.  "

Really? Your idea of "respectful" is to characterize another poster's opinions as "psycho-babble?"  Your choice of words in response to those who firmly disagree with you occasionally indicates you view us as fools and/or charlatans.  You are reaping what you sow.  I would humbly suggest more tolerance for the opinions of others, as well as avoiding pompous and repetitious bloviating.

Last edited by Landsteiner
Landsteiner posted:

"I also try to be respectful of other's opinions without being disrespectful to them.  "

Really? Your idea of "respectful" is to characterize another poster's opinions as "psycho-babble?"  Your choice of words in response to those who firmly disagree with you occasionally indicates you view us as fools and/or charlatans.  ...

Only in your case, Landsteiner.

Seriously though... Go back and read the post where I used that reference.  It was after you talked about meditation and sorrows of life as a suggestion for how to spend my Sunday.  It had nothing to do with your opinion on the toy train market.  So let's not mix our metaphors to suit your purpose of stirring the pot.

At this point I'm taking the advice of the person who suggested we never argue with a fool any further, lest folks have trouble determining who's who.

David

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer

I got my first Lionel train when I was 5 or 6. Dad bought it used from a local appliance store and the track and accessories were already mounted on a plywood board. Dad and I bought lots more trains (all were new because there was no ebay or OGR forum in the late 50s) until I was 13 and we decided to take the layout apart and store it. I sold everything to a Lionel dealer after I got married because I needed some money. Then when grandchildren came along I began to buy again....but 90% of it is used. There's a ton of good used trains available and since they seem to last forever I see little reason to buy new. I don't know a GP7 from a GP9 or a Prairie from a Berkshire, but my two grandchildren enjoy my trains and think they are something special to play with when at my house.

I buy used cars, used furniture, used computers and sometimes used clothing. I'm just thrifty. And, yes, the desk chair and window ac in this picture were bought used, too.

Feb 2016

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  • Feb 2016
Last edited by billshoff

Rocky Mountaineer,

   David, don't bother to update it, you just sold it, drop me some e-mail at Pine-Creek@live.com we can work out the shipping and total cost! 

A picture here would be nice also!

LandSteiner - That sir is cold hard fact, it really is a decent deal especially if it has low miles on her.    Further stating your personal opinion is not attacking somebody.

Jim P,

   Not quite yet sir I want to purchase the TMCC  JLC GG1 and I do not care what others think, to me the cost is worth it.  I am glad this thread was started I just acquired a GG1 that I really wanted.

Thanks Michael for starting this thread!

PCRR/Dave

Last edited by Pine Creek Railroad
Terry Danks posted:

I really seem at odds with so many toy train enthusiasts.

Yes, I had Lionels as a boy, in the 1950s. Tubular track. Had some Super O when I sold everything and left toy trains.

I have zero desire to reacquire any of that stuff! Even back then I just wanted more realistic trains. I hungered after the beautiful models advertised in the magazines. Overland stuff and Walthers scale passenger cars. Of course I could afford none of it on a kid's allowance!

No conventional running, no tubular track, no postwar stuff for me.  Just doesn't interest me. Rather perplexes me that so many people love this stuff. Now we see a resurgence of tinplate . . . with sound no less???

 

And once again, we have an example of "I don't like it, so why in God's name would anyone else like it?"  

I just don't get that mentality.  At all.  I don't give a flying flip what anyone else does/enjoys, it doesn't affect me and it's none of my business.  Too much of that crap on this forum and in society in general...

I have  posted that I just can not pay almost a hundred dollars per boxcar.I have been buying used boxcars from local train stores.Some are from the 70/80s but they may be a bit lite.But I can add weight to them and they fit right in.As for locomotive I brought a conrail locomotive from the little choochoo.At first when I saw it I thought it was a dummy.I picked it up and saw it was no dummy it was powered.It was a williams locomotive price $30.00.So I could not turn it down.A few weeks later they had a marx 333 locomotive.I came close to buying that one but did not.Any way there are deals out there.You just have to look consider what you are willing to pay.And maybe the seller will be willing meet you half way on the price.

Since I am a car and a train nut,  I make comparisons between the two, and I do not see the vintage car market as down as it has, to me, spriraled up and out of sight over the years I have watched it.  I just think a lot of the trains are not old enough to be collectible yet, and are not valuable to the market.  The other problem is that a lot of the same prototype models are made over and over, with, and often without the latest gizmo and go-faster.  Given a choice of the GG-1 cited above, or brand new one that does everything but vote, many will choose the latest version.  (there are, I am sure, a very few who want every version of that or some other prototype that has ever been made, but they shop prices, too)  And, there is planned obsolescence....  For me, what is collectible and expected to rise in price is that which is not made any more.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Rocky Mountaineer,

   David, don't bother to update it, you just sold it, drop me some e-mail at Pine-Creek@live.com we can work out the shipping and total cost! 

A picture here would be nice also!

LandSteiner - That sir is cold hard fact, it really is a decent deal especially if it has low miles on her.    Further stating your personal opinion is not attacking somebody.

Jim P,

   Not quite yet sir I want to purchase the TMCC  JLC GG1 and I do not care what others think, to me the cost is worth it.  I am glad this thread was started I just acquired a GG1 that I really wanted.

Thanks Michael for starting this thread!

PCRR/Dave

You are welcome. I am glad something good came out of it. Discussion got a little heated.

Thanks for the interesting thread, Mike. I always appreciate the chance to see the perspective of others. . . especially since I'm not a collector. Because of my personal situation, I treat the hobby as a zero-sum game -  whatever I sell gives me resources to buy new things.  I also enjoy re-doing my layout theme every now and then - so that means I regularly get rid of what I have and look for 'new-to-me' items. Also I usually like odd O gauge items like Hornby tinplate and Western Hobbycraft trolleys.

My observation of the odd or rare items I'm always monitoring tallies with those who see a general softening of the market. There does not seem to be the same number of folks chasing what I am interested in than there were five or ten years ago. It also appears that the secondary market, at least online, is still influenced by the time of the year - eg there is a bit more demand for things that may end up a bit more expensive or higher priced in fall / winter versus spring and summer.

That said, I like playing with my toys - and I really love seeing them go off to a new home when I'm done with them. I personally prefer to give a buyer a great price.

These days I'm back to buying postwar, so everything is used   That being said, for the new stuff (engines)  I would be very hesitant to buy a used one.  The parts/the reliability of the electronics, etc  would be enough to deter me.  I think on the forum you have a better chance of someone standing behind what they sell compared to say eBay. While I still see people buying it, postwar & MPC prices are a shell to what they once were. Will they recover?  I doubt it.  The new stuff has 1000 features & from a detail standpoint, blows older Lionel away.  For the modern stuff I have sold, I got close to what I paid for it. The few MPC & PW items I tried to sell, you really couldn't give it away, especially the MPC. But , like it was stated before - will the 80$ boxcar give me the same enjoyment as the 18$ boxcar?  I'm in the same boat - student loans, daycare for kids, car & home payments - disposable income gets smaller & smaller.  A lot of the reason I love postwar & MPC is the emotional attachment to it - reminds me of my Pop & Uncle and being a kid, trying to find all these trains at shows, etc.  I do think the market is flooded w/ more product than people out there to buy it. The people that are really driving the market seem to be going after legacy & PS2/3 engines.  

I like the response I read somewhere that

"if you are buying trains as an investment, you are buying them for the wrong reasons".

Buy what you like and run what you like. In recent years I have watched the prices of

"postwar" trains especially, come down. When I first got into this in 1990. I so desparatly wanted a ZW

for my train board. I was NOT willing the shell out $300 for a used transformer, not knowing if it would work or not.

I now own 5 postwar ZWs. I did not pay any more than $60 for any one of them. And one I found at a rummage sale for $25.

At the shows, I have watched the price drop over the past 20 years from $300+ to $100-$150 each. I also watch some of the same dealers bring items from show to show to show, only to pack it all up and take it home. Some dealers have tried to follow the market and lower prices to move items and some dealers have left their prices at prices held from 20 years ago. In both cases, items are moving slow and prices that are from 20 years ago, go home with the dealer instead of with a buyer.

I try to encourage new train enthusiasts to talk with dealers. Most dealers are willing to negotiate, because they want to make a sale and bring new blood into the toy train market.  We all need to encourage the youth and get them OUT from behind those computer screens. Happy Hunting.

 

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  • blobid0

Just from what I have seen, but at the shows the prices often seem to be unrealistic, I agree that especially on postwar, the prices being asked are too high, and it looks like the guys don't sell a lot. The last greenberg show I went to, I heard two of the guys with tables talking, and they were complaining about how people didn't want to pay a 'fair' price, both were selling postwar..and while they had some nice stuff, the prices were well above what I have seen stuff sell for, not talking rare items, saw things like 1990's Lionel Engines they had priced probably double what I could get off of here or on fleabay or dealers on the net.  I think a lot of the dealers think they are going to get high prices when the market isn't there. 

 

I did see some modern stuff at tempting prices, if my son wasn't in college, could have gotten some good deals on PS2 MTH and the like. 

I think shipping costs are really hurting the sales of used trains. Over the last few weeks, I have been trying to sell or give away items from a small collection that I became responsible for. The shipping cost of anything train related, seems to about equal the value of the item. I have a local mailing store that can search shipping costs for any box I take in, to find the lowest cost. It seems like even a small item in a small box will cost you at least $15.00 to ship it half way across the lower 48. Sometimes it costs more to ship something than the item is worth. Example: It cost $13.00 to ship a small Lionel tank car that I gave away.

Jeff

bigkid posted:

Just from what I have seen, but at the shows the prices often seem to be unrealistic, I agree that especially on postwar, the prices being asked are too high, and it looks like the guys don't sell a lot. The last greenberg show I went to, I heard two of the guys with tables talking, and they were complaining about how people didn't want to pay a 'fair' price, both were selling postwar...

Many of the post-war dealers simply haven't changed with the times.  They're stuck in the mindset that folks think there's VALUE in a rare postwar Jersey Central FM with a maroon vs. gray roof.  Variations like that are part of the "collector's mentality" that has fallen off dramatically as many enthusiasts have evolved into operators who don't give a hoot about variations -- at least not in a sense that they're willing to pay a premium for them.

As for the post-war trains in average to poor condition... I'm not sure there was ever a sizable market for those.

David

 They're stuck in the mindset that folks think there's VALUE in a rare postwar Jersey Central FM with a maroon vs. gray roof.  Variations like that are part of the "collector's mentality" that has fallen off dramatically as many enthusiasts have evolved into operators who don't give a hoot about variations -- at least not in a sense that they're willing to pay a premium for them.


There are still folks who care about variations, and assign higher values to certain ones. They don't attend every show, and if they participate here (probably don't) they probably keep it to themselves because of the ridicule they'd receive.
That written, I'll agree that the market is shrinking, and there are fewer people interested in such things. Many of them already have those "rare" variations, so the demand certainly is low.

I think that a lot of people are missing the thought that many of the folks setting up a train shows are not dealers nor are they running a business. They are hobbyists looking to sell off some stuff. They don't need the money to pay the bills or be able to buy dinner. Or even to be able to afford their next train fix.  So they set the price where they feel it should be, and don't care whether they sell the item or not.

If you don't sell anything, you cannot have "sellers remorse".

Last edited by C W Burfle
C W Burfle posted:

 They're stuck in the mindset that folks think there's VALUE in a rare postwar Jersey Central FM with a maroon vs. gray roof.  Variations like that are part of the "collector's mentality" that has fallen off dramatically as many enthusiasts have evolved into operators who don't give a hoot about variations -- at least not in a sense that they're willing to pay a premium for them.


There are still folks who care about variations, and assign higher values to certain ones. They don't attend every show, and if they participate here (probably don't) they probably keep it to themselves because of the ridicule they'd receive.
That written, I'll agree that the market is shrinking, and there are fewer people interested in such things. Many of them already have those "rare" variations, so the demand certainly is low.

I think that a lot of people are missing the thought that many of the folks setting up a train shows are not dealers nor are they running a business. They are hobbyists looking to sell off some stuff. They don't need the money to pay the bills or be able to buy dinner. Or even to be able to afford their next train fix.  So they set the price where they feel it should be, and don't care whether they sell the item or not.

If you don't sell anything, you cannot have "sellers remorse".

For my part,  don't care, I just walk by when the prices are crazy. However, a lot of these guys also spend a lot of time complaining and moaning that buyers are cheap, don't want to buy their stuff. If they want to go from show to show, pay the table fee, and not sell anything, it doesn't bother me, but I have heard these guys in person, and online, moaning and complaining about the people at the shows not willing to buy their stuff...

As far as those willing to pay more for something they value, that is their right, I have bought things with personal meaning where I likely paid too much, there is nothing to make fun of there. However, I also have seen where they overpaid for something, thinking they have a treasure that they think they bought cheap, find out they overpaid, then blame everyone else because they don't cherish their 'treasure'. 

Gentlemen,

    I think vendors run the full spectrum, as David says some will not change, others wheel and deal all the time.  I agree with Popi open your mouth and talk to the individual Vendors, you will be able to tell right away if they are open to a deal, or if they are set in stone.  However you also must use your head, if you are trying to negotiate price.  In my latest purchase from Rocky Mountaineer (David), I decided not to make a counter offer on the Scale JLC TMC GG1, because I honestly believe David was already at his lowest sale price.   IMO the Scale TMCC Brunswick Green PRR one Striper with minimal hours was worth even more money than David was actually asking, so I did not have my heart in trying to negotiate the price down any further.  Further I do a lot of horse trading especially with the Tin Plate Vendors, definitely ask negotiate if you can.

PCRR/Dave

Michael Hokkanen posted:

What is your opinion of how well things are selling on the used train market? I have seen a lot of items sitting and not moving both here and elsewhere. I realize that used train cars, accessories, and other things are only worth a fraction of their new price. But, you can only go so low. Please do not view this as an individual complaint I am just curious. Thanks very much for any opinions that you would care to express. I really appreciate it.

Dismal.... I've been selling my collections now for several years. My experience has been, no one wants to pay what an item is worth. They want it for pennies on the dollar not matter how nice it is. Things will eventually sell if your patient and flexible with your prices and dealings. A lot of things will sit and not sell show after show or auction listing after listing.

 

Tin

C W Burfle posted:

 They're stuck in the mindset that folks think there's VALUE in a rare postwar Jersey Central FM with a maroon vs. gray roof.  Variations like that are part of the "collector's mentality" that has fallen off dramatically as many enthusiasts have evolved into operators who don't give a hoot about variations -- at least not in a sense that they're willing to pay a premium for them.


There are still folks who care about variations, and assign higher values to certain ones. They don't attend every show, and if they participate here (probably don't) they probably keep it to themselves because of the ridicule they'd receive.
That written, I'll agree that the market is shrinking, and there are fewer people interested in such things. Many of them already have those "rare" variations, so the demand certainly is low.

I think that a lot of people are missing the thought that many of the folks setting up a train shows are not dealers nor are they running a business. They are hobbyists looking to sell off some stuff. They don't need the money to pay the bills or be able to buy dinner. Or even to be able to afford their next train fix.  So they set the price where they feel it should be, and don't care whether they sell the item or not.

If you don't sell anything, you cannot have "sellers remorse".

"...The last part of that sentence screams of begging the question as to why even bother attempting to sell in the first place." --posted by John Korling.

These two posts got me thinking. I think C.W. Burfle has got something here. Maybe the dealers/hobbyists (and obviously it isn't every dealer at these shows) that don't seem to mind taking the trains home and back again to the next show do it for several reasons. Assuming that they don't need the money which is entirely possible, maybe they do it to hang out and socialize with their friends, get away from the wife or the in-laws for a weekend, go out to dinner, and overall maybe just maybe they have a good time doing it. Either that or perhaps they are stubborn and will wait until they get their price on an item but surely any logical person would add up all the costs of attending multiple train shows such as gas, tolls (if any), food, cost for the table and their own personal labor and time in setting up their table and loading and unloading their car.

One time I was at Raceway Park in Englishtown, NJ for their automotive swap meet. A guy had a 1/18 scale Barracuda I wanted to buy. It was in nice condition but it had no box. I asked how much it was and the guy was actually kind of annoyed at me just for asking. It was like I was bothering him. He and a bunch of his friends were sitting around a table talking. He said, "$30". I said would you take $25? I felt that was fair offer since there was no box and I don't feel like I was beating him up. He refused right away and I walked away. He obviously didn't care if he made a sale or not. Some people are stubborn and don't care what the market is for something (I had bought a similar 1/18 with no box at an earlier show for $20). They have to get their price no matter what yet I always get the feeling that if they were buying from me whatever price I ask for something will always be too high. Was he a guy who goes to shows to hang out and socialize with his friends or someone who is stubborn and won't sell anything unless he gets his price? I don't know but perhaps it is a little of both?

But if they, as you stated, don't care whether they sell it or not, then it makes that premise kind of moot.

Sorry, I am not going to get into a debate on the issue.

For many collectors, selling is part of the hobby, regardless of whether the income is needed.

If the market is dead and the trains aren't desirable, then why are so many people concerned about these sellers asking high prices and bringing their stuff back and forth show after show?

When I see something I like on a table, and the price is too high I might make an offer. It depends on how far apart we are, and whether I know the table holder. If we make a deal... great!. If not..... another will come along. There aren't too many truly rare things in the world of train collecting.

When I am selling, I price my stuff to sell. Still, I am always willing to listen to an offer that is made politely. Sometimes a deal is made, other times not.

 

 

Consider this.  Some folks may actually enjoy going to a train show with their premium priced stuff, sharing their grousing and "in my day, etc." complaints with their buddies and anyone else who will listen,  and then taking their unsold treasures home where they are truly appreciated.  Never underestimate the pleasure of misery shared,  nor of the potential feelings of superiority over the rest of the world who just don't understand "how it should be" .  It's a privilege of being on downhill side of 60 or so from what I've seen (I'm there too!).

I've been going to train shows since the early 90's to search for used trains & parts.  I enjoy the wheeling & dealing, BUT rarely will offer less than 25% of a dealers asking price.  Most often, only 10%.  But I also know a lot of the dealers by sight and have friends who stand behind their stuff, even offering to send an engine out to Lionel for repairs.  If it's priced fairly it sells.  Being new to buying here on the forum, the biggest killer that I see are the shipping charges.  Even if a seller was willing to take something back, you're are still out $$$.  I recently made a small purchase on the Forum and shipping was 25% of the items value.  

Excellent reading all. Again I thank you. Lots of headsey stuff discussed here. I sent my York app in a little while back. I always love looking at everybody's stuff. Now I am kind of second guessing myself. Additionally, as my new layout is being built I am predicting lots of left- over rolling stock will be stored and not run. What to do with this stuff? Keep it on the floor in boxes? Probably so as I can't seem to sell much used stuff. If I were truly starting this hobby as a beginner I would now not  leap in to it so boldly and buy so much stuff. And what I have is peanuts compared with what I see some of you out there have. Maybe the lesson is that "He who died with the most unused toys - loses!" 

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