What’s the next Flyer Chief Offering?

The O gauge steam engines seem to have a lot more detail, features and better electronics. I would guess the cost to tool up an S gauge Legacy steam engine would be less than an O gauge. The sales volume is smaller so fewer units to amortize the one time costs over. There are so many O gauge engines released it is not apparent that the sales volume of a specific engine in O is a lot larger than in S.

I would buy multiples of a nicely detailed Legacy Hudson, Berkshire, K-5 Pacific, Texas, etc. I would expect an MSRP for these to be more than $1,200, less than $2,000.

Tom

banjoflyer posted:

Why couldn't the GP20 shell be installed "backwards" and then reverse the wiring to the motor leads?

The new  GP7 chassis looks symmetrical so it appears you could reverse the orientation of a shell. I don't have a GP20 to compare screw mounting holes but that could be worked out. The speaker housing of the GP7 would also need to be reversed.

Mark

The hand rails prevent flipping the shell.  The shells are virtually identical.  The holes are all the same.  The GP20 I have has larger screws but they clear the holes on the new frame just fine.  The holes on the frame for the shell match up.  The GP20 frame has a hump where the motor mounts.  The new frame is flat.  The power truck will mount in the rear.  The electronics can be flipped but the mounting is not symmetrical.  The old frame is in the first picture.

IMG_1211IMG_9083

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Brendan posted:

The hand rails prevent flipping the shell.  The shells are virtually identical.  The holes are all the same.  The GP20 I have has larger screws but they clear the holes on the new frame just fine.  The holes on the frame for the shell match up.  The GP20 frame has a hump where the motor mounts.  The new frame is flat.  The power truck will mount in the rear.  The electronics can be flipped but the mounting is not symmetrical.  The old frame is in the first picture.

IMG_9083

Thanks for the pictures, Brendan.

I kinda thought there would be a good chance the motor could be mounted in the rear, but I no longer have the GP7 "review sample" in my possession to dissect.

Being able to move the motor and mount the "GP20" body on the new frame should open up some new possibilities for FlyerChief.  (As long as us rivet counters stay away...)  A new bracket for the electronics shouldn't be difficult to produce.

Rusty

One side effect of my looking at these is the dynamic brake blister is missing from the SF; the prototype had one.  Also, after looking at the frame, I can't help but see bolt holes on the roof, now.  I will have to get a DB blister.

IMG_3360

Brendan

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Brendan posted:

One side effect of my looking at these is the dynamic brake blister is missing from the SF; the prototype had one.  Also, after looking at the frame, I can't help but see bolt holes on the roof, now.  I will have to get a DB blister.

IMG_3360

Brendan

Not all of them had dynamic brakes:

EMD GP7 ATSF 2785EMD GP7 ATSF 2802EMD GP7 ATSF 2804

(Ooops, there's that pesky rivet counter again...)

Rusty

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Roundhouse Bill posted:

Mark, we were talking steam not another diesel.

Ummm well...yes we were Bill. Go back and read the entire post. My response was to the possibility of revamping an older GP20 model using the FlyerChief system. 

 

Here's another thought, but it would only be possible if the GP7's motor could be relocated to the rear of the locomotive.  The so-called Flyer "GP20."

xLTI 6-48001 GP20 ICGr

The new frame and power truck won't allow for the chop-nose and motor to occupy the same space, so the motor would have to be in back.

Rusty

Brendan posted:

The hand rails prevent flipping the shell.  The shells are virtually identical.  The holes are all the same.  The GP20 I have has larger screws but they clear the holes on the new frame just fine.  The holes on the frame for the shell match up.  The GP20 frame has a hump where the motor mounts.  The new frame is flat.  The power truck will mount in the rear.  The electronics can be flipped but the mounting is not symmetrical.  The old frame is in the first picture.

IMG_9083

Brendan, look again at the rails. On the new GP7 they are not a one piece stamping with the chassis but are separate pieces. I checked my ATSF unit and with a fingernail could get the rail to move slightly from the chassis. They might be friction fit with ribbed posts or something like that. You can see several "heads" of pins of some sort on the bottom of the rails. They could certainly be reversed on the chassis but Lionel might have to drill a few more mounting holes in the chassis as the current holes aren't symmetrical. When reversed all holes would be covered. Anyway it sure looks like a swap could be made with a GP20 shell without too much effort. The front and rear rails look identical so no changes needed there I guess.

Mark

I popped one handrail off.  It looks as though the nubs are cast.  I pulled on one and it didn't budge or turn.  I thought you were talking about a user doing the flip.  I would just move the motor which I do plan on doing which is why I got two of these.  I'll have a pair of FC GP20s and a pair of FC GP7s.

IMG_4369

Brendan

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Brendan posted:

I popped one handrail off.  It looks as though the nubs are cast.  I pulled on one and it didn't budge or turn.  I thought you were talking about a user doing the flip.  I would just move the motor which I do plan on doing which is why I got two of these.  I'll have a pair of FC GP20s and a pair of FC GP7s.

 

Brendan

Sounds neat! Yeah I was talking about Lionel having nearly all they needed to crank out a FlyerChief GP20 using the GP7 as a starting point. Flipping the rails/shell and reversing the motor leads would be an easy way to go. Leave the motor where it is.

You gotta post pics when you're done with the switch.

Mark

Rayin"S" posted:

Mark, I have an RS-3 in Milwaukee Road paint and a pair of Burlington GP-35s that I have converted to TMCC using the ERR Mini-2. Go to their website and you will see the Mini-2 sells for $34.95. It is not a hard install and if you have any problems Ken at ERR is always ready to answer questions.

 


  

Mini Commander 2 Kit  (Vers 1)
     - Front/Rear LED's and Light Bulb outputs

Ray

   34.95
 


 

 

Ray,

I've seen an Amtrak F40PH in Youtube videos of your layout.  Is that one of the AM locomotives that you've installed a Mini-2 in?  Also could I save a few dollars and buy the DC version of an American Models locomotive? If I understand the functionality the Mini-2 or Cruise Lite handles the AC to DC conversion and directional changes so you don't need the AC version of the locomotive.

Craig

banjoflyer posted:
Brendan posted:

I popped one handrail off.  It looks as though the nubs are cast.  I pulled on one and it didn't budge or turn.  I thought you were talking about a user doing the flip.  I would just move the motor which I do plan on doing which is why I got two of these.  I'll have a pair of FC GP20s and a pair of FC GP7s.

 

Brendan

Sounds neat! Yeah I was talking about Lionel having nearly all they needed to crank out a FlyerChief GP20 using the GP7 as a starting point. Flipping the rails/shell and reversing the motor leads would be an easy way to go. Leave the motor where it is.

You gotta post pics when you're done with the switch.

Mark

Given there's a raised pad on the frame, two mounting posts right behind the cab and the handrail nubs (green arrows) would have to relocated in order to reverse the side handrails.  The 6 nubs aren't symmetrical front to back, it would mean Lionel would have to change the tool for the frame. 

NKP 514 122317 010 nubbins

It would be far and less costly easier for Lionel to move the motor to the back and make a new bracket for the board.

Rusty

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Rusty Traque posted:

 The 6 nubs aren't symmetrical front to back,

 

 

You're right. I was too lazy to measure anything and at a glance they looked fairly equidistant from each other. Well I just "flipped" your image and stacked both pics., It clearly shows the discrepancy in the hole pattern:

Upper image is reverse, lower is your original. They'd have to drill or punch lots more holes. But then the chassis could serve multiple engine shells so....

AS an added bonus for me I just received my replacement UP Geep from Charles Ro today!

The new unit appears to be without flaw. No more "tic tic tic" noise on r20 Fastrack, no more gear noise, no more paint rubs. It appears that Ro is pretesting all of the Geeps now. This is a new unit...not repaired.

My unit was wrapped in bubble wrap outside of the box. The box itself contained the foam cradle, manual and remote. Exterior shipper box was also included. I'm satisfied now with my new Geeps!

Mark

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Ray,

Thank you for your response.  Since you say the F40PH has "plenty of room in those for the Mini-2" I would guess that the Cruise Lite would also fit?

I'm glad you mentioned the SD-60 since I own one and it would be next on my list for modifications.  Which board(s) do you plan on using in that?

I've seen some Youtube videos of an ERR installation (in an O gauge locomotive).  I think it seems like just a matter of following the instructions.  In fact the toughest part may be finding a spot that is roomy and will provide a stable place for the board.

Craig

 

Ray,

Thanks for your follow up reply.  I saw your first response but had some more specific questions.  I haven't bought the F40PH yet so I can't measure it and since I can't measure it I wasn't sure if I should buy the Mini-2 or Cruise Lite.  A "chicken and egg" situation.  I should probably start with the SD-60 that I do own an buy a Mini-2.  Thank you for clarifying the situation.

Craig

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Guys, how about starting your own thread on that topic.  This is about FlyerChief.

Thanks

It's called "thread creep."  It happens on many topics.

But let's see if we can get back "on track."

Is there any want/need/desire for FlyerChief U33C's, SD70's and/or ES44's?

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

 

Is there any want/need/desire for FlyerChief U33C's, SD70's and/or ES44's?

 

Not from me. I have several of the SD70's and really enjoy the Legacy operation they have. But I don't want to buy any more of them either.

As to FlyerChief I'd like to see Lionel put it in the Baldwin Switchers and gussy up the details on them. Here's one such model:

 it would benefit from some added railings on the front and rear of the engine and along the walkways such as this engine shows:

The Baldwin is a good contender as the next transplant engine for FlyerChief IMO.

Mark

 

 

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Rusty brings up a good question, and I think the answer for me is “nope”. 

I am interested to see how the LionChief+ Scale(ish???) SD60M sells compared to the Legacy ones...all cataloged in the 2017 O Gauge signature catalogue. But for me, at this point, because there is no answer to the question of modern rolling stock, and the price point is lower for FC compared to Legacy, I would like to see the “Gilbert-esk” type products continue.  

I would love the recent UP Baldwin with FC/BT.  I would also think the ALCo PA could be a candidate too, but there are so many Legacy units out there now, I don’t know if it would fly.  But for the detail of the scale pieces that Rusty mentions, seems to me that’s the realm of full blown Legacy. 

Ben

NASG&CASG

If you have already purchased the Legacy Base Station with one or more remotes, you likely have little use for LionChief products of any kind. However, if you are coming from traditional AC transformer controls, you probably will find LionChief much more attractive.

Personally, I don't care for the Baldwin switcher because it is just too mis-shaped with that goofy oversized cab. The GP 7/9/20's flat handrails have turned me off of those locos, and the SD9 looks like just a GP with extra wheels. The recent Berkshire is very close to a home run, but I still am unhappy with those cast-in handrails on the boiler. I'm hoping the LionChief 4-8-4 I have coming will be as good as the Berkshire, but even with it's cast handrails, I think the Berkshire is a bit better looking, and a good indicator of where Lionel is heading with future S gauge items. Their recent bay window and EV cabooses with upgraded graphics, lights, windows & handrails are a big improvement over the old Gilbert versions, and the Polar Express passenger cars look a lot better in S than they do in O. 

Bill in FtL

Chuck K posted:
Rusty Traque posted

Is there any want/need/desire for FlyerChief U33C's, SD70's and/or ES44's?

Rusty

Not for me.  It's like going backwards to a lesser product from the greatness of the Legacy versions of these.

Speaking for myself as the one who posted the question:  I would only be interested if the FlyerChief board had DCC code embedded (as the HO Polar Express is supposed to have) and more importantly scale conversion wheels were available.

Rusty

I now have four FlyerChief engines and if if FlyerChief had come before TMCC and Legacy I would never have invested in Legacy and its expensive engines.  This is really true if some of the late model diesels and detailed steam engines came with FlyerChief.  

The simpler and cheaper system does so much that the money and problems with Legacy stuff would be avoided.

Rusty Traque posted:

Is there any want/need/desire for FlyerChief U33C's, SD70's and/or ES44's?

Rusty

NOPE.

Own all of those diesel-electrics in Legacy. Have no need to own any of these with decidedly inferior operating and sound systems. Also, these might not be so affordable in FC+ form, given the higher level modeling detail and the two motors (SD and ES) that they have.

Respectfully,

Bob

 

Bob Bubeck posted:
Rusty Traque posted:

Is there any want/need/desire for FlyerChief U33C's, SD70's and/or ES44's?

Rusty

NOPE.

Own all of those diesel-electrics in Legacy. Have no need to own any of these with decidedly inferior operating and sound systems. Also, these might not be so affordable in FC+ form, given the higher level modeling detail and the two motors (SD and ES) that they have.

Respectfully,

Bob

 

Legacy snob...

 

Jokingly,

Jerry

poniaj posted:
Bob Bubeck posted:
Rusty Traque posted:

Is there any want/need/desire for FlyerChief U33C's, SD70's and/or ES44's?

Rusty

NOPE.

Own all of those diesel-electrics in Legacy. Have no need to own any of these with decidedly inferior operating and sound systems. Also, these might not be so affordable in FC+ form, given the higher level modeling detail and the two motors (SD and ES) that they have.

Respectfully,

Bob

 

Legacy snob...

 

Jokingly,

Jerry

You betcha! 

Bob

The lionchief Android app was actually updated the other day. I'm honestly surprised. I was not expecting frequent updates from big L.

 

Fix bugs including:
-Throttle response issues
-Bluetooth connectivity issues
-Screen sizing for some tablets
-Bluetooth permission dialog popping up more than once
-Default momentum changed to Low

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